Author Topic: 2018 HLP Book Club  (Read 2613 times)

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Offline Luis Dias

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Kinda late to build this thread, but here we are. It reflects my total lack of book reading for the past 5 years now, due to personal family complications (also why I basically stopped playing games as well), but recently I managed to restart this all too precious activity.

I obviously kickstarted all of this with Seth Dickinson's Great debut.

I had lots of thoughts about this book, but not very clear headed nor systematic, so I refrained from commenting on it when I finally read it two months ago. Here are some of them, fragmented as they may be:

English is not my first language, and thus I am not a good critic of its usage in the aesthetical sense. Nevertheless, I could only feel its total mastery at the helm of the entire book. I loved several things in it. I loved the intrigue, obviously, but the politics as well. I loved this notion of power dynamics overwhelming human relationships to the point of demanding discipline in all human behaviors to the point of oppression, in order for something as powerful as the masquerade empire to function.

I loved the Herbert elements in it, basically exchanging magic for "Mentats" in a fantasy medieval setting, and the whole book almost reads like science fiction: what would happen if you could have such incredible knowledge about economics and sociology (at perhaps even better levels than our actual world currently), so that you could dominate colonies and foreign territories with mere brains and very subtle, systemic interference?

Related, my favorite part of the book is when Baru carefully explains how she is going to destroy the entire first rebellion.

Spoilers ensue, so beware. (no, I hate spoiler tags, so beware again.)

The plot moves fluidily through the various themes of the book, apparently never letting anything insightful out of the hook. I'd suggest that the way the empire is constantly portrayed as this evil thing from the get go, makes it slightly less nuanced and interesting. Surely this object should have some benefits for its existence, but they're never even referenced, as far as I remember (I can be awfully wrong, ofc).

And then there's that final bit. I can't quite put my finger on exactly why I kinda disliked it, but the word that comes to mind is "tired". Hyperboling a bit, it's as if at this point, the story is just going through the motions which were long before decided, but no longer really believed. I won't say it's a Shyamallanian twist, because that would be too harsh, but I can't but feel this weird turn of events reeks of some ... lack of restraint.

I know, the overall trilogy plot needed this twist, I know. I just don't feel it works that well. And it sort of kills the main character for me going further. Why would I care about this character which is utterly destroying everything in her path, in order to get herself into maybe, possibly, perhaps, in a position where she can do some harm in the Masquerade? It looks a tad ridiculous. Why wouldn't the Masquerade just kill her on the spot right there at the end? Are they so naive they don't know her intents? How can such an empire read through all of what she accomplished in that last rebellion, knowing full well she was on their pocket all the time, and then fail to understand her to the end?

I dunno, I feel all of this was not well set up for me. Nevertheless, on the whole I really loved reading it, and it was a breath of fresh air, coming out of a celibacy of this stuff right into a great book as it is.




My second book (books) were the Three Body Problem trilogy.

Wow. I had no idea what I was going to get myself into. It blew me away. But my time is up here, so all I can really say about it is how incredibly powerful most of its ideas were, and I'll never forget the picture of a flattened bunch of planets as a landscape of glooming impending final doom. Just delightful books. I cannot recommend them more, but I'm also sure most of you already have read them a long time ago. Oh well.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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I don't find the time to read as much fiction as I want to recently either - in part because the ammount of non-fiction I have cram for my thesis and papers (esspecially stuff like Architecture and Literature of which I don't actually have any in-depth academic knowledge, so I actually have to work to put out a 2.0*-grade paper) *German academic grading system has a kind of "inverse scoring", so 1.0 is the best grade you can get and 4.0 is lowest passing grade.

So, I started cheating a bit last semester and decided to enroll in Literature classes for the languages, I speak relatively well.

First book of the year comes in that vein: Penelope Lively, Moon Tiger (1987)

The book is written form the perspective of Claudia Hampton, a fictional historian who was born in the late 1900s, and at first reads like the manuscript of an autobriography or final book of hers, until for the first time the perspective shifts to the world outside her mind and you learn that she is at present in a nursing home and that both her health and her mental faculties are declining due to her advanced age (the book never quite gives the time of its present but e.g. Claudia having a grandchild is mentioned at one point).

With a few exceptions of interludes in the present day, the story continues as Claudia's recollection of the events of her life; Not in a chronological fashion instead it is organised as a narrative that at first serves a train of thought about the nature of her work, but soon the autobiographical examples take over and her recollection of these structure it going foward.

The non-chronological nature of the account plays well with the idea that memory is not systematic and gains inflection by the act of recollection. The present day interludes, which are accompanied with shifts in perspective, contexturalise Claudia's account through observations from or about characters in her recollections (e.g. her daughter).

One of the book's biggest strong suits is how it handles the framing of history has a narrative, esspecially the interplay between Claudia rejecting the orthodoxy of the "great white men"-theory by styling herself as an exceptional woman.

The biggest drawback is that despite being organised into chapters, the shifts in persepective and style come and go with little warning. While they all have their place and serve a purpose upon revisitation, these shifts make it really difficult as casual read.



Starting this semester's syllabus, I am playing hard and loose here with the definition of a book: Herman Melville, Bartleby the Scrivener (1853)

Narrated by an unnamed Wall Steet-lawyer the short story follows the events that are set in motion by the hire of the name-giving character.  Most of what happens is not only disruptive to the law-firm in minor, yet impactful ways and infused with a slight surreality that it calls into question if Bartleby is in fact real and/or human. While the notion that something supernatural is at play is openly dismissed, the question of the nature of Bartleby as a person remains at play until the end....

...of which, I would prefer not to report. ;)

The short story is actually quite funny at parts (though you won't laught out loud) but, as it is the nature of absurdist texts, quite thought-provoking. Esspecially now in a time where the political narrative of the "forgotten men and women of [country X]" is used a lot.



Next up on the list: Wilhelm Raabe: Die Akten des Vogelsangs (1896)

(For those who don't speak/read german, the title translates to "The Files of Birdsong", "The Files on Birdsong" or "The Files regarding Birdsong", depending on grammtical inflection. And yes, this syllabus is building up to a work from Kafka.)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 06:49:27 am by 0rph3u5 »
"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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After a year and a half or so of complete burnout during which I've read only a couple of Star Wars tie-in books (Ahsoka and Catalyst, both rather good, especially if you like to know more lore about the kyber crystals) some time ago I decided to try the kindle app for the smartphone my family decided to saddle me with (frigging touch screens...).
Since I had heard there was this nice military sci-fi series whose first two ebooks were free I ended up buying the remaining books on the app one at a time in the last few months.
The series in question is the Honor Harrigton series by David Weber, a nice light reading with political intrigues, spaceships going boom, a protagonist that is very good at her job but always gets in the worst situation possible because politics and has an empathic bond with a sentient six-limbed alien cat.
Of course the author seems to be a bit obsessed with telling how much socialism is bad, but fortunately the enemies aren't depicted as strawmen, mostly, and kind of eases up on that by book 8 (that I'm currently reading right now).
There are also some rather ponderous infodumps here and there that sometimes seem a bit lore for lore's sake though and that might not be everyone's cup of tea.
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

  

Offline The E

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The series in question is the Honor Harrigton series by David Weber, a nice light reading with political intrigues, spaceships going boom, a protagonist that is very good at her job but always gets in the worst situation possible because politics and has an empathic bond with a sentient six-limbed alien cat.

Here's a piece of advice, should you decide to stick with the series: Absolutely, positively stop reading after either Ashes of Victory or At All Costs. The series takes an absolute nosedive after that, as Baen stopped doing editorial oversight on Weber and he started to use dictation software to write (Shadow of Saganami is, imho, the only exception here; that book is actually decent).
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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  • Madman in a box.
The series in question is the Honor Harrigton series by David Weber, a nice light reading with political intrigues, spaceships going boom, a protagonist that is very good at her job but always gets in the worst situation possible because politics and has an empathic bond with a sentient six-limbed alien cat.

Here's a piece of advice, should you decide to stick with the series: Absolutely, positively stop reading after either Ashes of Victory or At All Costs. The series takes an absolute nosedive after that, as Baen stopped doing editorial oversight on Weber and he started to use dictation software to write (Shadow of Saganami is, imho, the only exception here; that book is actually decent).
I'm at the second half of War of Honor at the moment and it's still fine IMHO.
Sincerely I'm used to read mostly old 18th century and 19th century stuff often originally dictated to a secretary (like Goethe used to do for example) so the lack of editorial oversight is not exactly a deal breaker for me, at least nothing has reached Ann Radcliffe level of dispersiveness of content and convoluteness of phrasing until now.
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 
I imagine, if anyone is in this thread, you have some interest in reading and possibly writing.

If you have an Amazon account, I recommend you download the sample of a book called "A Glimmer of Hope" by Steve McHugh. Let me know what you think.

I got a copy through Amazon First Reads, and the first two chapters (what's in the sample) are indescribable.

Repeat: just the sample, don't buy the book.

 

Offline The E

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The series in question is the Honor Harrigton series by David Weber, a nice light reading with political intrigues, spaceships going boom, a protagonist that is very good at her job but always gets in the worst situation possible because politics and has an empathic bond with a sentient six-limbed alien cat.

Here's a piece of advice, should you decide to stick with the series: Absolutely, positively stop reading after either Ashes of Victory or At All Costs. The series takes an absolute nosedive after that, as Baen stopped doing editorial oversight on Weber and he started to use dictation software to write (Shadow of Saganami is, imho, the only exception here; that book is actually decent).
I'm at the second half of War of Honor at the moment and it's still fine IMHO.
Sincerely I'm used to read mostly old 18th century and 19th century stuff often originally dictated to a secretary (like Goethe used to do for example) so the lack of editorial oversight is not exactly a deal breaker for me, at least nothing has reached Ann Radcliffe level of dispersiveness of content and convoluteness of phrasing until now.

Wait till you get to the part where the books tread water for several installments, with Weber going so far as to copy entire chapters wholesale, or where he introduces subplots with dozens of characters never seen before or after that reiterate points he made earlier and more concisely.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline karajorma

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It's a pity because the premise of the new books is interesting but handled so slowly that it's a bit of a slog to get through it.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 
I obviously kickstarted all of this with Seth Dickinson's Great debut.

[...]

Spoilers ensue, so beware. (no, I hate spoiler tags, so beware again.)

I'd suggest that the way the empire is constantly portrayed as this evil thing from the get go, makes it slightly less nuanced and interesting. Surely this object should have some benefits for its existence, but they're never even referenced, as far as I remember (I can be awfully wrong, ofc).

And then there's that final bit. I can't quite put my finger on exactly why I kinda disliked it, but the word that comes to mind is "tired". Hyperboling a bit, it's as if at this point, the story is just going through the motions which were long before decided, but no longer really believed. I won't say it's a Shyamallanian twist, because that would be too harsh, but I can't but feel this weird turn of events reeks of some ... lack of restraint.

I know, the overall trilogy plot needed this twist, I know. I just don't feel it works that well. And it sort of kills the main character for me going further. Why would I care about this character which is utterly destroying everything in her path, in order to get herself into maybe, possibly, perhaps, in a position where she can do some harm in the Masquerade? It looks a tad ridiculous. Why wouldn't the Masquerade just kill her on the spot right there at the end? Are they so naive they don't know her intents? How can such an empire read through all of what she accomplished in that last rebellion, knowing full well she was on their pocket all the time, and then fail to understand her to the end?

[...]
I plan to re-read it later this year, in preparation for the next book (which I still need to pre-order). I won't re-post what I already said on it (likely somewhere in the 2016 or 2017 book thread), but I'll give my thoughts/ramblings on those points in particular.


Regarding the ending, the twist wasn't exactly a surprise for me, for some reason I happen to be familiar with Seth Dickinson's work since before he even started being published, so I knew he would be capable and willing to pull something like that. But more to the point, it fit the story thematically. Baru is a traitor, but to who ? Her people ? The Masquerade ? The revolution ? We know that her long term end goal is to end the empire that conquered her land, but she is nonetheless part of said empire doing its bidding while her culture is being destroyed. Her "end justifies the means" attitude directly leads to her becoming one of the monsters she seeks to overthrow, at what point does it stop being a righteous cause and becomes a flimsy self-justification ?

Should we cheer for her, or weep for her being trapped in the situation she placed herself in ? I don't know, but I can't wait to read what happens next :)


Regarding why they don't just kill her when they seem to have a good idea of her long term goals ? Well, I think there could be several reasons, here is my current take on it : Even then, they are still maintaining the masquerade, pretending to be their masks, and right now that mask is one of apparent ignorance. Of course, they would know that Baru suspects that they know, and that she would be extra-scrutinized, which would limit her actions, since she has to maintain her own masquerade. It could also be that they don't care, the masquerade is too well built to be taken down by one puny girl with a grudge, no matter how determined and resourceful she is. After all, so long as she keeps her mask, she does their bidding, so why not keep her on board for the moment. Or maybe this is not the first time something like that happened, and they either dealt with previous traitors or the traitors are now on board with the masquerade.

Maybe they're foolishly confident, maybe Baru foolishly naive but hey, we need her alive for two more books ;).


Regarding the benefits of the empire, I don't remember stuff being referenced directly but there's certainly a few implications, and things that can be speculated on. The most obvious are the standard stuff from imperialism and colonialism, although the Masquerade is more subtle about its business than its real-world's many counterparts - and probably a bit smarter too. For example, the conquered get to benefit to some extent from the empire's resources and knowhow, including things like goods and education (it's part of their initial subversion strategy after all). It's also likely that part of the country's infrastructure get overhauled to Masquerade standards. And while that evil empire is abhorrent to us, be it morally, culturally, or even militarily, they've got pretty tight control over education, making it easier for them to indoctrinate the newer generations. And once that's done, well it's more difficult to smell evil when you don't know what it is. The Masquerade is a scary thing geared for long-term domination.

See real life's more orwellian dictatorships for reference, plus how socio-cultural standards & morals shift over time and countries.


tldr; it's a great book, and I wish I had more opportunities to talk about it :P

 

Offline Det. Bullock

  • 29
  • Madman in a box.
The series in question is the Honor Harrigton series by David Weber, a nice light reading with political intrigues, spaceships going boom, a protagonist that is very good at her job but always gets in the worst situation possible because politics and has an empathic bond with a sentient six-limbed alien cat.

Here's a piece of advice, should you decide to stick with the series: Absolutely, positively stop reading after either Ashes of Victory or At All Costs. The series takes an absolute nosedive after that, as Baen stopped doing editorial oversight on Weber and he started to use dictation software to write (Shadow of Saganami is, imho, the only exception here; that book is actually decent).
I'm at the second half of War of Honor at the moment and it's still fine IMHO.
Sincerely I'm used to read mostly old 18th century and 19th century stuff often originally dictated to a secretary (like Goethe used to do for example) so the lack of editorial oversight is not exactly a deal breaker for me, at least nothing has reached Ann Radcliffe level of dispersiveness of content and convoluteness of phrasing until now.

Wait till you get to the part where the books tread water for several installments, with Weber going so far as to copy entire chapters wholesale, or where he introduces subplots with dozens of characters never seen before or after that reiterate points he made earlier and more concisely.
I decided not to bother with the spin off books by the way even though I was tempted, so I have only two books after At All Costs.
Mission of Honor wasn't bad, but I'm at about 20% of Rising Thunder according to the Kindle app and the level of fluff is rather high. Someone should tell Weber that "show, don't tell" is for movies and TV series not for books, the first chapters could have been condensed in a much shorter infodump rather easily and while at the very least some of the vignettes with the merchants and the manties firing warning shots at the sollies are nice enough the solly members of the government being clueless and evil in excruciating detail for pages and pages can be difficult to get through.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 01:17:15 pm by Det. Bullock »
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline The E

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November is a good month for new books. Before I start reading Monster Baru, two other books by favourite authors of mine appeared on my doorstep.

The first is Charlie Stross' The Labyrinth Index, book 9 in the Laundry Files series.
What I like most about this series (and why it's my favourite series) is that Stross continually mixes it up. It shifts subgenres, it ups the stakes, switches POV characters, everything. In this book, the role of POV character is given to Mhari Murphy, formerly appearing as Bob Howards' (the original POV character for this series) psycho ex-girlfriend/finance industry manager who is a vampire, who is sent on a secret mission to the United States to rescue the President.

Oh, and this happens as a lovecraftian singularity is in full swing; in the previous book
Spoiler:
the Laundry basically unleashed Nyarlathotep on the british parliamentary system to avoid a takeover by the Laundry's american counterpart; Nyarly is now PM, working to secure a food source of belief and necromancythe UK against the coming threats.
Mhari, elevated to Baroness Karnstein, is put in charge of creating a new intelligence agency reminiscent of the WW2 Special Operations Executive; her first mission being to find out just why America seems to have forgotten that it has an executive branch of government with the President at its head.

The book is just a treat. Plots are planned, foiled and executed, wheels are spinning within wheels, Chekovian guns are variously fired and put on mantlepieces, and a long hard look is taken at the compromises, both moral and political, that have to be taken when working for and against what truly is unbelievable evil.


The second book to arrive was Richard K Morgan's Thin Air, a sort-of sequel to his 2007 novel Black Man.
This one was okay, I suppose. I get the strong impression that Morgan is somewhat coasting in this one; the protagonist in this one, one Hakan Veil, could just as well be Takeshi Kovacs wearing a mask. Morgan's mix of noir and cyberpunk is still entertaining in its pulpiness, but there's really nothing new here; There are still good amounts of the rage and cynicism against oppression in there, but I feel like both of those things were better explored in the Kovacs novels, Market Forces and Black Man.
So, my recommendation here: Skip this one, unless you're a Morgan completionist.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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I have just finished off all the Witcher novels, save Season of Storms which I'm still working through.  And they were excellent.  I don't know if part of that is for my love of the game series and the characters I've come to love through all three games, or because they are quite refreshing, fun, humorous, and even sad in places, but I've devoured them.

And now sitting on my shelf is NK Jemisin's Broken Earth trilogy, which comes highly recommended.  Seth's latest publication is probably going to have to wait a couple months.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline theperfectdrugsk

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Working my way through Neal Asher's Polity series.  I like it so far, but not nearly as much as I enjoyed The Culture books (Iain Banks).

 

Offline HLD_Prophecy

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Nicholas Gannon's The Doldrums and it's sequel are the most incredibly fun and strangely wholesome books I've read since The Mysterious Benedict Society.

If I could recommend one recent book, that'd be it.

 
I just finished Douglas Adams' The Long Dark Tea Time of the Soul, which was of course, great; it makes me sad that it was his last completed book. If I can one day write half as well as he could, I'd be beyond thrilled.

 

Offline theperfectdrugsk

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Curious if anyone has read Kim Stanley Robinson's Aurora.  Just finished it and...meh.  Not my favorite of his.