[kir2yar]

Interestingly, and UEF could cause at least some damage to SD Lutsifer?

I mean, the GTVA have beam weapons, which totally ignores shields. Have UEF something to replace?

Maybe something like anti-shield torpedoes?

Otherwise, a single Lucifer can cause serious damage to the entire fleet.

[Colonol Dekker]

The Lutsifer is vulnerable to harsh language.

[QuantumDelta]

beam weapons working vs the lucifer != cannon.

[kir2yar]

beam weapons working vs the lucifer != cannon.

But that means that by canon, GTVA also has no chance against Lucifer. (Well, except the battle in the subspace.)


added:
Then what's the point of building GTVA Colossus?

Did he not has been built to reflect the Shivan attack? And in particular, as a countermeasure against Lucifer.

[kir2yar]

The Lutsifer is vulnerable to harsh language.

Unfortunately, lack of communication in the English-speaking environment - certainly not become a major weapon against GTVA Shivan Destroyer. Where would they take so many illiterate Russian?

[Hades]

added:
Then what's the point of building GTVA Colossus?

Did he not has been built to reflect the Shivan attack? And in particular, as a countermeasure against Lucifer.

The Colossus had been built on assumptions and hope. They had no real idea if the Colossus could or could not have defeated another Lucifer.

[kir2yar]

Ie, it's a white spot in the canon?
It seemed to me that a very widespread opinion that Lucifer protective field works the same way-as a fighter.
It seems reasonable, especially given the fact that it is so does not work in the subspace.

[NGTM-1R]

The Colossus had been built on assumptions and hope. They had no real idea if the Colossus could or could not have defeated another Lucifer.

The actual dev team commented that FS2 weapons could punch through the Lucifer's shield. They were however inspecific on which, but beam cannon are the logical conclusion considering the Vasudans most likely threw everything and the kitchen sink at the Lucifer while it was bombarding Vasuda Prime.

This means that technically, an Aeolus could probably beat up the Lucifer if handled well. The UEF's out of luck though.

[Hades]

Where did they say that out of curiosity?

[The E]

We've said it in several places. In the BP verse, Lucifer shields can be pierced by Beams.

Whether or not UEF weaponry would be effective there as well, that's something that hasn't come up yet. But let us say that it would be stupid of the UEF not to have thought long and hard about how to defeat those shields.

[MatthTheGeek]

The duel between the Orestes and the Lucy in AoA shows that the GTVA can damage a Lucifer. Even if a single Raynor couldn't do it on its own without the Vishnan's help, they definitely have the technology to damage and eventually defeat a Lucy.

Nothing tells us that the UEF has any mean to pierce Lucifer-class shields. You can make the assumption that enough anti-shield damage could have pierced them, but that's only an assumption. Nothing in canon says that the Lucifer shields work the same way that standard ones. We only know that beams pierce them.

[Fury]

It is simply my observation but nothing really says that Lucifer's shields are any special from what your typical fighter uses, with two exceptions. Lucifer's shield seems to be hugging the hull, whereas retail shield meshes were like bubbles around the ships. Second difference is the amount of power directed to shields, Lucifer had what seems like 5 large reactors powering it up. It is unknown if Lucifer had normal reactors like any standard capital ship, but in any case this seems to indicate that Lucifer was able to direct far more power to shields than any other known ship.

Assuming that GTVA could 1) build reactors with sufficient power and 2) project such a huge shield, would they have done so knowing that beams pierce shields anyway? Probably not.

However, the interesting tidbit is that beams piercing shields was apparently according to some FSO coders a bug. For all we know, since didn't bother fixing the bug they just decided to lower AAA beam damage and roll with it. It wouldn't be the first time bugs become features.

And I doubt beams would be only weapons capable of piercing shields. All you'd need is to mimic what causes beams to pierce shields and somehow apply that to other weapons. All it needs is some good old fashioned star trek technobabble.

[Ravenholme]

The magnetic bottle that shapes and contains the plasma/particle streams (Since Shivan/GTVA beams are not lightspeed, thus therefore are not Lasers), interferes with the energy barrier of the shielding system, thus making the shield essentially opaque at the beam's point of impact, and creating the "Beam's pierce shields" effect we all know and love.

[Fury]

That's just technobabble bull**** to explain why canonically beams have been able to pierce shields, though it is still canonically limited to only fighters. You can just as well come up with other bull**** to explain why this non-canon plasma cannon pierces shields.

[headdie]

All it needs is some good old fashioned star trek technobabble.

Time to go matching shield frequencies

[Ravenholme]

That's just technobabble bull**** to explain why canonically beams have been able to pierce shields, though it is still canonically limited to only fighters. You can just as well come up with other bull**** to explain why this non-canon plasma cannon pierces shields.

Well, technically, one would've thought it would have suggested railgun rounds or torpedoes that project a similar style of magnetic bottle, but hey-ho.

And, hey, it is technobabble-y bull****, but it's exactly what you asked for. (As in "Star Trek Technobabble")

[Fury]

And, hey, it is technobabble-y bull****, but it's exactly what you asked for. (As in "Star Trek Technobabble")

I know, but the way you put it indicated as if it should be taken as a canon fact, which annoyed me a bit.

[Ravenholme]

And, hey, it is technobabble-y bull****, but it's exactly what you asked for. (As in "Star Trek Technobabble")

I know, but the way you put it indicated as if it should be taken as a canon fact, which annoyed me a bit.

Hardly? I just made some **** up in response to your request, and stated it as if it were being made factual. I thought it was very clear it wasn't "canon", but obviously not (Although, the part about the shields being energy barriers was canon, and the fact that beams are not lasers is obvious)

[-Sara-]

I see it like this, don't know if it's valid. Think so though:

The weapons the GTA fired in the first war against the Lucifer were all pulse based. This can be compared to throwing pebbles at a resistant surface of liquid (let's say a jelly or glue) with a target 10 feet deep. The pebbles with your human strenght will not reach the bottom, they penetrate the jelly only so far but the tension at one point keeps the pebble from reaching it's target, besides it starts losing velocity at some point when thrown. And since you are only allowed to use your hands and no tools, you cannot simply shoot the pebbles into the jelly: you have a limit of force you can practise on that surface with your pebble. No matter how many people throw at once.

The beam-weapons the GTVA fired at ships are continuous. This can be compared to holding a stick in your hand and pushing it down at that same resistant surface of liquid or jelly. Since you can keep applying continuous presure on the stick at one end you can push through the jelly at a slow pace, eventually reaching the bottom 10 feet deep. It'll be more difficult as the jelly resists, but eventually you'll win out with enough strenght. Even if one stick won't do, you can use another stick in your second hand, or get 20 people to press with sticks near yours so that the jelly can't resist all that concentrated presure.

So beam weapons, if plenty, would probably penetrate that Lucifer shielding, rendering it obsolete.

[Dragon]

I think that if beams couldn't damage the Lucifer, Shivans would have sent another one and didn't bothered with beams.
Since they knew that humans could have reverse engineered Lucifer and possibly installed it's shields and beams on their capships (they didn't adapted the capship shields, but it would be safe for Shivans to assume they could), they sent ships equipped to deal with an enemy that has capship shields and beams. Terrans had shown that they could adapt fairly quickly during the Great War (stealing fighter shield technology). Lucifer was, in fact, a very poor design aside from it's shields, it could indeed have been destroyed by an Aeolus or Deimos, since it won't be able to turn fast enough. And Vasudans would most likely want a revange on Shivans for bombing of Vasuda Prime, so a Lucifer-class destroyer would get multiple Hatties attacking it from behind in a relatively short time. This kind of firepower would toast it in no time.

Note that this is not in any way related to BP, just my personal theory on why Shivan ships changed so much from FS1 to FS2.