[Phantom Hoover]

We were talking about the history of the Sanctuary in #bp, and the idea of making a campaign out of it came up. It would tell the story of the Shivan apocalypse in the alternate timeline, centred on the construction of the Sanctuary and its journey to N362. A summary of the ideas we came up with:

• The efforts to clear the Shivans from the Sol node long enough to evacuate.
• GTI using every trick they have left, maybe deploying the incomplete Hades.
• Vasudans defecting en masse to the HoL in the face of impending doom.
• Seeing whatever happened to the Minnow wreck in Laramis.
• A narrative broken into short vignettes of 3-5 missions, each with a different player character and scenario, such as:
• An elite GTI pilot, part of the latent Hades conspiracy.
• A Vasudan defector to the HoL.
• One of the Minnow's pilots.

(Thanks to Matth and The E for most of that.)

I think there's definitely a lot of potential in this.

[Master_of_the_blade]

Seems interesting. Need more ideas?

[Luis Dias]

Please make sure in every campaign to keep the uncertainty factor up. I liked the idea when I saw it on #bp, still do.

[MatthTheGeek]

Define "uncertainty factor".

[Luis Dias]

Constant and most important problem with all prequels is the fact you already know the outcome. I don't need to name examples do I?

So that is the first problem to pay attention to and avoid the temptation of merely "telling the story between this point and that point", or what the characers "feel" as the obvious plot points go obviously to their obvious places.

Avoid the obviousness or actually confront them head on and surprise us with some kind of "slap" on our faces. Turn our expectations upside down.

And actually have something different and novel to tell in these stories, some interesting theme that BP hasn't yet developed.

Also, be aware of the funereal "doom and gloom" theme that I'm sure it's going on your head. That's ****ing difficult to write and produce something that isn't too painful and weary for the player to play.

[headdie]

A lot of interesting Ideas in the OP.  Perhaps a sister ship to the Sanctuary with a different destination could be used, which either gets destroyed (adding to the desperation of the situation) or goes "off the radar" to add a little mystery.  You could even do doth depending on the player's performance in certain missions.

I like the idea of GTI involvement and throwing their every last idea at the shivans, could be interesting to cook up a few weapons and fighters that were only being developed in Sol.

As a start point I think it should begin with the 1st feet's attempts to slow the Lucifer as it first enters the system with the player involved either as the FS1 alpha 1 or perhaps better a new protagonist.  The mission starts with a desperate call from the fighter assault trying to stop the Lucifer saying that they have been savaged and are running out of time, that the Lucifer is preparing to leave subspace and they haven't the fire-power to stop it.  Moments later the Lucifer arrives in the system but with some of its reactors down unable to use it's shields though the SSL's work fine and in the time it takes to re-power it's subspace drive takes down an Orion.  the GTA was unable to calculate the ships destination (remember this is an ability the Terrans are still getting a grasp of), in the mean time a couple of Cains slip past the Bastion and are arriving in Sol.

Knowing the danger they are in GTA command dispatches ships in desperation to find the Lucifer but that is no longer the main plan.  The plan is to slow the Shivans down long enough to deploy the Sanctuary (and other ship if used).

and at that I have run out of ideas for now.

[Klaustrophobia]

a second sanctuary wouldn't fit with the established plot.  the sanctuary was a last-second conversion from a new ship already under construction.

[Phantom Hoover]

A sister ship would be a bit much, but there's room for other survival plans, particularly as the PVE was actually largely untouched outside of Vasuda.

[-Norbert-]

It doesn't have to be another Sanctuary. You could take a little inspiration from Homeworld.
You are to escort a ship with one or several modules, already filled with people in coldsleep, to the Sanctuary, but the Shivans intercept you and they have to make a run for it, ending up somewhere else. You could either put the module(s) in as simple containers, or incorporate a bigger tansport/freighter (though much smaller than the Sanctuary or course).

That leaves several options open:
-being hounded to death by the Shivans
-linking up with the Sanctuary
-finding a nice quiet planet to settle down
-keeping an open end, by having them wander around the cosmos, with the Shivans always snapping at their heels if they stay too long.

[crizza]

I would even going so far that the Minnow should go with the Santuary to ground, but needed to sacrifice herself.

And covering up the battle for earth with some rag tag wings trying to reach the Sanctury while being hunted by the shivans.

[Phantom Hoover]

It's important to remember that the assault on the Lucifer represented the last point at which the Great War could have been won, not the final stand agains immediate extinction. There's room to do much more than just help the Sanctuary flee.

[Phantom Hoover]

For reference purposes, a summary of what I can remember from AoA:

- There's no (detectable) human presence in Sol, Delta Serpentis, Ross 128 or Laramis; there are plenty of Shivans, though.
- The Lucifer wasn't destroyed, and is accompanied by at least 2 Demons.
- The Sanctuary was built from two incomplete destroyers that were under construction in Sol. What's not clear is whether construction began before the assault on the Lucifer failed. The campaign says one thing, the team say another.
- The Sanctuary is being actively hunted; it also seems to be scouting for any other survivors, though it hasn't found any.

One big unknown is the PVE. From what I understand, the Lucifer basically just flew to Vasuda, glassed it, and moved back to Terran space, leaving the rest of their core systems intact.

[^Graff]

Have one of the Demons in Silent Threat: Reborn be the primary antagonist for most of the campaign, not the Lucifer.  That way, you at least won't know that ship's fate beforehand.
Let the Sanctuary use its main gun.
A number of missions could include attempts to evacuate local forces to other systems, to force the shivans to split their forces and thus reduce the number of ships hounding the Sanctuary.  And you wouldn't necessarily know what happened to the people who escaped to other systems.

[Legate Damar]

Show their first encounter with a Sathanas too (the same one destroyed in AoA?)

[headdie]

I always assumed the Sath came later as it was a new discovery in FS2.  either following the Lucifer the long way round or more likely coming through the GD Knossos activated either by the shivans or the Vasudans if they still around.

[MatthTheGeek]

I'm pretty certain the Sath seen in AoA was entirely a response to the Vishnan advance. Much like the Dante was.

[Crybertrance]

I'm pretty certain the Sath seen in AoA was entirely a response to the Vishnan advance. Much like the Dante was.

But, did the apparently new Shivan Warships (Rakshasa, Dante, Moloch, Sath) discovered in FS2 exist during the FS1 timeline?

[The E]

Noone knows.

[Black Wolf]

Historically, the community consensus has broadly (but by no means universally) been that all the FS2 ships and technologies did already exist in the Shivan arsenal, but for whatever reason, they didn't deploy them during FS1. Basically, this is because of the interpretation of the FS1 ancient monologues being about a fleet based around a Lucifer, or something very similar ("In subspace they cannot use their shield"), and if this is the case, then the Shivans advanced almost not at all in 8000 years - it would be inconsistent for them to suddenly jump so far ahead in just a few decades after such a long idle period.

There have been any number of potential reasons for this put forward in campaigns and on the forums, including possible explanations that accept the tech jump, but there's never been anything even close to generally accepted. The only thing we have that's even vaguely close to canon is a vague description on the FS2 box of the original Shivan force as a scouting fleet, but this is highly ambiguous (could be interpreted as slightly tongue in cheek, designed to imply the overwhelming superiority of the new FS2 fleet vs. the FS1 fleet, rendering it no more significant than a scouting fleet) , and worse yet, was probably written by Interplay, not Volition.

TL;DR: The classes in question very possibly did exist, but there's no canon answer either way.

[Phantom Hoover]

From a BP canon perspective the text on the inside of the Narayana heavily favours Shivans having that tech all along.