[Luis Dias]

I haven't the slightest clue on how no one has figured out before that if you warp your cruiser / frigate or even a destroyer into the very core of a shivan juggernaugth like the Dante, you'd probably have an amazing ratio between your losses and shivan's.

Alternatively, one could install a subspace drive into a big asteroid and warp it inside uninvited big warships. Create a bunch of said asteroids! I'd say it would cost a lot less than wasting your own vessels risking the lives of so many crewmembers...

[Mars]

As long as he doesn't just die because he pushed his jump drives too hard. That would be spectacularly anticlimatic.

And that's exactly why it should happen.

Seriously, WiH doesn't do ridiculous heroic deaths, and that's a large part of what makes it work. How many ships have made some heroic speech and charged a destroyer only to get zomgwtfbeamraped before they get anywhere close?

I can think of at least six off the top of my head, two of them with "ramming speed" thrown in for good measure.

How about the crew of the Nelson? Or the Captain of the Ironhide? The majority of the Wargods? The crew of the Valarie?

WIH is full of heroic deaths.

[Kolgena]

It's implied that Terran jump technology is not nearly accurate enough for that, and that Shivan technology might not even be good enough either.

A non-canon reason is that subspace reacts poorly to high gravity situations, which suggests that it doesn't like matter very much. It might not be possible to open a rift within matter at all.

On that note, SSM strikes are pretty close to what you're suggesting. Warp them in as close as possible, and let them fly the rest of the way.

A more plausible usage of raw subspace as a weapon is to activate a drive within a cargo hold or something. It would open a rift to subspace, which is presumably vacuum and capable of accelerating Orions to 120m/s. It could be a really expensive version of a pocket nuke or a warhead "payload".

[Luis Dias]

Yeah reading Trashman talking about BP is the bizarrest thing. Almost makes me believe I'm living in an alternative universe and somehow the vishnans brought me here in a subspace queerness.

[Luis Dias]

It's implied that Terran jump technology is not nearly accurate enough for that, and that Shivan technology might not even be good enough either.

A non-canon reason is that subspace reacts poorly to high gravity situations, which suggests that it doesn't like matter very much. It might not be possible to open a rift within matter at all.

It's all about writing choices. I agree it would make a very unreasonable war, or at least not fun anymore. Rule of fun dictates therefore that this idea be thrown in the garbage.

On that note, SSM strikes are pretty close to what you're suggesting. Warp them in as close as possible, and let them fly the rest of the way.

Right on. I was almost mentioning that but I went for minimalism.

A more plausible usage of raw subspace as a weapon is to activate a drive within a cargo hold or something. It would open a rift to subspace, which is presumably vacuum and capable of accelerating Orions to 120m/s. It could be a really expensive version of a pocket nuke or a warhead "payload".

Hmmm dunno... seems convoluted....

[Timerlane]

Personally, I'd also probably be surprised if there's no subspace ramifications to blowing up large ships in/next to an open subspace aperture. Maybe not a risk of outright collapse, like being directly at an open node proper, but perhaps a shortening of the lifespans of the 'stable' notes in the system would result.

[Qent]

Maybe warping directly into another ship just disperses your own ship across the system.

[Luis Dias]

Perhaps you can somehow mess up with the wormhole created by an enemy ship, and place its emerging vortex in a different place than the one the enemy ship was originally planning.

[SpardaSon21]

On the subject of subspace, I wonder if a ship can pull a bonehead maneuver using UEF subspace gates.

For those of you who don't know what the bonehead maneuver is, it is from Babylon 5 and involves a ship opening a hyperspace window inside the hyperspace window already opened by a hyperspace gate.  The two dimensional vortexes interact and KABOOM!

[LordPomposity]

As long as he doesn't just die because he pushed his jump drives too hard. That would be spectacularly anticlimatic.

And that's exactly why it should happen.

Seriously, WiH doesn't do ridiculous heroic deaths, and that's a large part of what makes it work. How many ships have made some heroic speech and charged a destroyer only to get zomgwtfbeamraped before they get anywhere close?

I can think of at least six off the top of my head, two of them with "ramming speed" thrown in for good measure.

How about the crew of the Nelson? Or the Captain of the Ironhide? The majority of the Wargods? The crew of the Valarie?

WIH is full of heroic deaths.

Thank you for listing a bunch of ships that

made some heroic speech and charged a destroyer only to get zomgwtfbeamraped before they get anywhere close

EDIT: On reflection, "heroic" was poor word choice on my part. I'm referring to the glorious covered-in-the-blood-of-my-enemies sort of death that a lot of people seem to want for Steele.

[Kolgena]

Well, subspace rifts seem to be effectively "invisible" to anything that didn't create it/isn't sharing its resonance frequency (tech description on subspace or subspace drives mentions this I think). I use "invisible" here to mean that no other matter or energy seems to be able to interact with it. (Let's ignore the fact that it glows bright blue)

Since you can't fly into a warp hole made by something else, I imagine that blowing stuff up beside it won't do anything to the hole at all. More on this logic, it gives a reason for why you can't use raw subspace as a weapon: it doesn't interact with anything except for whatever the drive is linked to. Presumably a linkage is more than "it's touching" and is more demanding, such as being specially wired into the rest of the ship.



OMGOMGOMG someone should hack a capital ship and force it to crash jump to random coords. Or mess with the Nav enough so that you can't guarantee an accurate jump. If you can screw with beam turrets, why can't you screw with subspace drives?

[Luis Dias]

Kol, I ninja'ed you on that one.

[Timerlane]

Well, subspace rifts seem to be effectively "invisible" to anything that didn't create it/isn't sharing its resonance frequency (tech description on subspace or subspace drives mentions this I think). I use "invisible" here to mean that no other matter or energy seems to be able to interact with it. (Let's ignore the fact that it glows bright blue)

Since you can't fly into a warp hole made by something else, I imagine that blowing stuff up beside it won't do anything to the hole at all. More on this logic, it gives a reason for why you can't use raw subspace as a weapon: it doesn't interact with anything except for whatever the drive is linked to. Presumably a linkage is more than "it's touching" and is more demanding, such as being specially wired into the rest of the ship.

Two canon problems with the assumptions; Freighters/cargo and other docked ships(including a GTFR Chronos hauling the unwilling/foreign-tech Taranis Cain-class cruiser through subspace), and the Endgame cutscene(Lucifer's rift opens, everyone comes out).

In the latter case, one could possibly blame game engine limitations for never seeing shared subspace rifts in-game, and the fact that until near the end, there weren't supposed to be non-Shivan fighter-size intersystem subspace drives(ignore Vasudan escort fighters from as early on as 'The Hammer and the Anvil'*), so apart from large fleet/convoy movements, there'd be little opportunity to show ships jumping through shared rifts, apart from docked vessels.

*the Vasudan fighters due to take guard of the shield prototypes at the node; if they didn't have intersystem drives, how would they have escorted the convoy into the next system?

[Buckshee Rounds]

Subspace is a means of travel, one we don't know a lot about. If you start having it in campaigns as a weapon you can make up all sorts of ridiculous abilities. I like it the way it is, since it can be used skillfully as a FRED element in it's own right, one of the many things that made Vassago's Dirge so stunningly good.

[Kolgena]

The way I thought of jump nodes and sharing tunnels is that each ship traverses their own independent tunnel depending on what frequency they used to open it. If everyone just picks the first random one that worked, then they'd all use different tunnels but end up at the same place at the same time once they exit.

If you can track a ship through subspace, it means you can know of its resonance frequency/pattern. Duplicate it, and you're in the same tunnel.

As for cargo, I figured that somehow the docking mechanism does something to carry the object through subspace with it. I guess if the coupling mechanism was too complicated, it'd be impossible to get a human pilot, and all the secondary ordinance, to follow his/her ship into the rift. Maybe simple contact is in fact all it takes.

I do agree though, using subspace as a weapon would probably introduce all sorts of weirdness. Because it messes with space time and contact with parallel universes, people probably don't want to abuse it that much.

@ Luis: yeah, whoops >.>

[crizza]

It's me again^^
After reading through the wiki, specifically the AoA walkthrough...did the Temeraire realy defect to the UEF?
And with the Carthage being upgraded, could this be the as well done for the Aquitaine? Looks quite nice with helheim textures and some of the new weapons

[The E]

After reading through the wiki, specifically the AoA walkthrough...did the Temeraire realy defect to the UEF?

No. The Fortune, Duke, and Labouchere defected.

[crizza]

Well, then someone should fix this:  http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Journey%27s_End

[The E]

Where on that page does it say anything about the Temeraire defecting?

[crizza]

Members of the project team have confirmed that both the GTD Temeraire and GTL Fortune were two of the ships in the battlegroup that defected post-mission.

1 GTD Titan

    Temeraire (#)
(#) Defected post-mission

Under notes and casualties.