[Deadly in a Shadow]

It would make sense to armor the UEF jump gates, however It seems unlikely that the GTVA would give jump gates higher grade armor than their warships.  Since their warships tend to be raped to hell and back by beam weapons fairly regularly and quite rapidly, so I would assume the gates are quite destroyable by GTVA weaponry.

There are a few ways around that though:

The GTVA might need that gate for future plans of theirs.  Maybe the gate was of more strategic value than the Agincourt.

The GTVA has nearly no need for the jump gates. Every ship, from the smallest fighter to the biggest Destroyer is equipped with jump drives. The only reason the jump gates exist and were not destroyed is due to future economic plans (if the GTVA wins, they will high likely make use of the freighters and other ships used by the UEF).

[QuakeIV]

[LordPomposity]

Yes, we are all in agreement that the GTVA are more than capable of destroying jump gates should they so desire. However, they do not.

[-Norbert-]

The jumpgates are of strategic and military value for both sides, because they allow them to conceal their fleet's movement. As teammembers explained before, subspace sensors can only detect that a gate was activated. They can't detect how many ships, what kind of ships or even if any ships at all were sent through, were a jump powered by the ships drives gives the people behind the sensors a good idea of what caused the flare on their instruments.
Then there is also the matter of jumpdrive charging. If you came in through a gate, your drive is fully charged to make a jump out of there if things get too sticky. If you use up the charge for jumping in, then for better or worse you're stuck there till your drives recharge.

As for the situation in the mission: They did make the gate pretty impassable. They put a destroyer and Serkr in front of it. Under normal circumstance that wouldn't have been just sufficient, but actually overkill for the foces they expected. What they didn't know was, that the UEF is able to jam their beams and thus the hunter became prey and had to run or be destroyed.
Also Laporte was only able to call in support from the Toutatis, because she was using a GTVA transponder and thus wasn't affected by the jamming.

That is why I like this mission a lot. It shows that the GTVA and Steele are just Humans too. They can make mistakes and can be caught by surprise.

[Deadly in a Shadow]

That is why I like this mission a lot. It shows that the GTVA and Steele are just Humans too. They can make mistakes and can be caught by surprise.

Especially the captain of the Marcus Glaive who plead the Bloodletters to withdraw while they got creamed with Slammers.

[QuakeIV]

Yes, we are all in agreement that the GTVA are more than capable of destroying jump gates should they so desire. However, they do not.

I was referring to the usefulness of said gates.

[Vertigo 7]

if the GTVA destroyed the jump gate system and achieved a total military victory, they would be screwed in the sense that the established economic system in Sol relies on the jump gate network. It makes more economical sense to try to keep it intact to use existing supply and commerce routes if they were to win. Attacking the jump gate network would just be a "F-U" move against the UEF and not serve the GTVA's interests other than that.

[LordPomposity]

Attacking the jump gate network would just be a "F-U" move against the UEF and not serve the GTVA's interests other than that.

Not that that would necessarily stop them. They've already blown up plenty of the infrastructure that they started this war explicitly to capture.

[NGTM-1R]

Not that that would necessarily stop them. They've already blown up plenty of the infrastructure that they started this war explicitly to capture.

I don't believe you quite grasp the concept of infrastructure as the GTVA wants it, i.e. manufacturing capacity.

[LordPomposity]

"- can anyone confirm that the Saab shipyards are gone? Does someone have a visual? There must be surviving fighters -"

Shipyard = a place where ships are built and repaired. The GTVA's reasons for blowing up the shipyards no doubt had more to do with the later than the former, but they have destroyed manufacturing capacity.

I'm not saying Steele's an idiot. To the contrary, I'm saying he's not dumb enough to risk losing the war by letting the UEF keep all its infrastructure in the hopes that he can capture it later.

[NGTM-1R]

We've already established, or at least Battuta has claimed, that any Arcadia-class installation in Sol is capable of constructing Karunas. The destruction of a single shipyard is of relatively little consequence to the ability to build new ships.

Though considering the general fragility of logistic systems it may make all the difference in the ability to repair them.

[MatthTheGeek]

Keep in mind that Darkest Hour was a major shift in the Tev tactical doctrine, following the entry of the GTVA in Total War. Destroying so much infrastructure was indeed something Severanti has been trying to avoid for 18 months, but the GTVA are now at a point they just don't care anymore and want to end the war quickly and with minimal Tev losses.

[Deadly in a Shadow]

We've already established, or at least Battuta has claimed, that any Arcadia-class installation in Sol is capable of constructing Karunas. The destruction of a single shipyard is of relatively little consequence to the ability to build new ships.

Has someone from the BP-team ever stated how many Arcadia-class stations are in the hands of the UEF?

[Hades]

Has someone from the BP-team ever stated how many Arcadia-class stations are in the hands of the UEF?

Zero, because the Tevs have already captured them all.

[Deadly in a Shadow]

Has someone from the BP-team ever stated how many Arcadia-class stations are in the hands of the UEF?

Zero, because the Tevs have already captured them all.

I meant before the war.
And they can't capture all stations when they've already destroyed stations like Simak.

[The E]

We've already established, or at least Battuta has claimed, that any Arcadia-class installation in Sol is capable of constructing Karunas. The destruction of a single shipyard is of relatively little consequence to the ability to build new ships.

Has someone from the BP-team ever stated how many Arcadia-class stations are in the hands of the UEF?

No.

Has someone from the BP-team ever stated how many Arcadia-class stations are in the hands of the UEF?

Zero, because the Tevs have already captured them all.

Cite source.

[MatthTheGeek]

Has someone from the BP-team ever stated how many Arcadia-class stations are in the hands of the UEF?

Zero, because the Tevs have already captured them all.

Wait what.

They might have captured all the Arcadias in Jovian space that Third fleet didn't manage to destroy (and I'd say this number is 0, given that logistics-wise, an Arcadia = one destroyer battle group supplied, and it is said somewhere IIRC that they only got one destroyer worth of logistics by capturing Artemis during the Jovian defeat), but we don't know how many Arcadias there is in orbit of Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars.

[LordPomposity]

Keep in mind that Darkest Hour was a major shift in the Tev tactical doctrine, following the entry of the GTVA in Total War. Destroying so much infrastructure was indeed something Severanti has been trying to avoid for 18 months, but the GTVA are now at a point they just don't care anymore and want to end the war quickly and with minimal Tev losses.

I know. However, my post was in response to a discussion about an event that took place after Steele assumed command and GTVA doctrine shifted, so the destruction of Saab Shipyards is relevant to the GTVA's way of strategic thinking at the time.

The reason, imo, that the GTVA didn't blow up the gate was because they had every reason to believe they could stop the Wargods without doing so. By the time they were proven wrong, the Toutatis was attacking the Hood and it was too late to destroy the gate. It wasn't because they chose to sacrifice the Agincourt so that the gate would still be intact when they conquered the system.

[MatthTheGeek]

I agree. The Agincourt was worth far more to the Tev than a random subspace gate. However important they may be for the civilian trade post-invasion, those gates are far from the military value of a logistics ship.

[Colonol Dekker]

:3


Pwease.