[Aesaar]

You think 3 separate beam cannons being knocked out by a pair of fairly small missiles makes sense?

[headdie]

why not, I know this is FS based so references to RL are flexible but a missile striking a weapons placement on a modern warship would put that system out of action, probably until it is completely replaced, at a minimum it would probably fix it in position and introduce the possibility of compromising the chamber.  weapons of a similar nature close by to each other and there is the possibility of sharing the same ammo/power feeds/regulators or other bulky/intensive support system

[Scotty]

Overpoweredness is determined by the story and needs of the story at any given time.

That said, I'm preeeeetty sure that it should take more than a dual fired Paveway to take out all three.

[Aesaar]

It does.  Takes a pair of Paveways for each.  I checked. 

Can't really help solve Actium's problem without more info.

headdie:   I find it very, very unlikely that a weapon the size of a Paveway does anything more than superficial damage to the beam cannon.  Probably just wrecks the emitter, which is stated to be fragile.

A Nimitz-class carrier would have difficulty fitting one of the Chimera's beam cannons on its flight deck.  Don't go comparing real world ships and their relatively tiny weapon systems to FS2 ships.  A Paveway is, what, 5m long?  You don't see anything wrong with a pair of these somehow disabling 3 150m long beam cannons at once?

[headdie]

It does.  Takes a pair of Paveways for each.  I checked. 

Can't really help solve Actium's problem without more info.

headdie:   I find it very, very unlikely that a weapon the size of a Paveway does anything more than superficial damage to the beam cannon.  Probably just wrecks the emitter, which is stated to be fragile.

A Nimitz-class carrier would have difficulty fitting one of the Chimera's beam cannons on its flight deck.  Don't go comparing real world ships and their relatively tiny weapon systems to FS2 ships.  A Paveway is, what, 5m long?  You don't see anything wrong with a pair of these somehow disabling 3 150m long beam cannons at once?

we are also talking about a franchise which measures the smallest rocket warhead in kilo tonnes.  So yes ships are considerably scaled up, but then so are the weapons.  also see my opening:

I know this is FS based so references to RL are flexible

[Vip]

I find it very, very unlikely that a weapon the size of a Paveway does anything more than superficial damage to the beam cannon.  Probably just wrecks the emitter, which is stated to be fragile.

(...) A Paveway is, what, 5m long?  You don't see anything wrong with a pair of these somehow disabling 3 150m long beam cannons at once?

2 Paveways destroying the entire 150m beam cannon is implausible. However, 2 Paveways wrecking or seriously damaging a 30-something metre emitter and thus effectively disabling the ship's ability to fire the cannon seems like a good idea.

[Aesaar]

Vip: Absolutely.  Those same missiles somehow disabling the other 2 cannons as well, however, makes no sense.  That's what we're arguing about.

headdie: And these systems have no difficulty shrugging off multiple hits from those kiloton payload dumbfires.  Neither of those facts makes a pair of 5m missiles disabling 3 beam cannons at once plausible.

[qwadtep]

Paveways and anti-subsystem weapons in general are probably bunker busters, using a hardened penetrator to lodge themselves inside the target before delivering their payload, whereas dumbfires and the like just detonate on the surface where their yield gets absorbed by the hull.

Since the Shivans generally don't care about disabling what they could simply destroy wholesale, the GTVA probably focused more on exterior armor than shielded subsystems.

[Qent]

Could it be an issue with the new Chimera model?

[Vip]

Vip: Absolutely.  Those same missiles somehow disabling the other 2 cannons as well, however, makes no sense.  That's what we're arguing about.

headdie: And these systems have no difficulty shrugging off multiple hits from those kiloton payload dumbfires.  Neither of those facts makes a pair of 5m missiles disabling 3 beam cannons at once plausible.

Bah, somehow I forgot about the original issue. Silly me. Hmmm, it's hard to judge without knowing the specifics of the Paveway - there is very little info on how it may work. It doesn't make much sense if they are indeed bunker-busters which simply explode, but perhaps they cause some sort of specialised electric surge that destroys some key components of a subsystem? And then, if the beams are somehow connected, a single volley could disable all of them at once...

Granted, that's a lot of ifs and assumptions, but I can imagine a semi-plausible explanation for such an occurrence. So I wouldn't say it doesn't make sense, but that it's merely very improbable

[headdie]

Vip: Absolutely.  Those same missiles somehow disabling the other 2 cannons as well, however, makes no sense.  That's what we're arguing about.

headdie: And these systems have no difficulty shrugging off multiple hits from those kiloton payload dumbfires.  Neither of those facts makes a pair of 5m missiles disabling 3 beam cannons at once plausible.

Bah, somehow I forgot about the original issue. Silly me. Hmmm, it's hard to judge without knowing the specifics of the Paveway - there is very little info on how it may work. It doesn't make much sense if they are indeed bunker-busters which simply explode, but perhaps they cause some sort of specialised electric surge that destroys some key components of a subsystem? And then, if the beams are somehow connected, a single volley could disable all of them at once...

Granted, that's a lot of ifs and assumptions, but I can imagine a semi-plausible explanation for such an occurrence. So I wouldn't say it doesn't make sense, but that it's merely very improbable

If you can confine and direct the warhead in a similar manner to a shaped charge seen on modern HEAT rounds you can use the same effect which is the explosive acts more as a plasma generator which directs a jet of the stuff in a fairly specific direction, this provides good penetration and localized damage but limits wider structural damage.

where as a more general ball of explosive would have a better chance at disrupting the general structure by applying a sudden application and release of load on support joints, inducing metal fatigue and buckling among other effects.

[Kolgena]

guys guys guys

I'm pretty sure you're missing the point. Disabling 3 beam turrets at once was (AFAIK) NOT POSSIBLE in the first release of WiH.

[Vip]

guys guys guys

I'm pretty sure you're missing the point. Disabling 3 beam turrets at once was (AFAIK) NOT POSSIBLE in the first release of WiH.

Bah, playing the first release of WiH was nearly not possible AT ALL, mainly because of the old models I wonder if this 3-beams-one-shot thingy is somehow connected to the bugs features introduced in recent builds of FSO, especially the shockwave damage added to some weapons which previously didn't have them.

[Kolgena]

(I got good performance with the old karunas, but my system is GPU bottlenecked sooooo)

Seems likely that it may be related to the shockwave bugs that people suspect are making Delenda Este very hard.

[Qent]

I still suspect the new Chimera model. The new Karuna model is actually more suspected of making Delenda Est hard than the shockwave bug, AFAIK.

[qwadtep]

I still suspect the new Chimera model. The new Karuna model is actually more suspected of making Delenda Est hard than the shockwave bug, AFAIK.

The problem with DE is that the new Karuna model's radius was set much larger than it should have been, causing the shockwave bug to occur that much more often.

It's entirely possible that it's a Chimera model problem if the same thing happened, though.

[Aesaar]

Everything's fine on my end.  Threw a Chimera in a blank map, shot a pair of Paveways at each beam cannon, and each blew up one at a time.

Can anyone else reproduce the problem?

I'm beginning to suspect Actium's problem in in The Plunder.  When disabling the Siren's cannons, it can look as though all 3 get knocked out at once because the rest of Alpha is also on the job.  Since you're close to them, it can result in everyone launching at the same time, resulting in near simultaneous impacts that can look as though your missiles killed all of them.

[crizza]

Question: Just typed Imperieuse into a online translator...but there was no result...only the choice between imperious and impervious so whats right?

[Scotty]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Imperieuse

[crizza]

No, tell me? I knew there were british ships named that way, I'm not that dumb, I wanted to know a english-german translation