[NFSRacer]

Got to ask, does anybody know if the voice acting for WiH has been finished and added into the game?  Or is it still being worked on?

[Aesaar]

Still a while away.  I'd bet on Part 2 getting completed first, but I don't expect either will be released this year.

[NFSRacer]

Okay, well I'd like to ask this, though I think this is the wrong location for this post.  Is it possible to force cockpit views on all ships in BP without actually making a TBM to mark those ships within the mod?

Again, I realize this may be a bad place for this message.  If so, then please move this accordingly; I just figured since I'm trying to do this for BP that I could put it here.

[Iss Mneur]

Okay, well I'd like to ask this, though I think this is the wrong location for this post.  Is it possible to force cockpit views on all ships in BP without actually making a TBM to mark those ships within the mod?

No.

Again, I realize this may be a bad place for this message.  If so, then please move this accordingly; I just figured since I'm trying to do this for BP that I could put it here.

It is probably not the best place for the question, but I can think of far worse places for it  and I can't think of a better place other than right in the board index so, meh. However, I think someone has already done that work and it is already available on this board.

[Ryuseiken]

Just finished the campaign again. The ending is just as upsetting as when I first played through it.

I'm going to pretend the Mr. Cuddles ending was the actual ending and leave it at that, and if/when the next release comes out, I will hopefully have been proven correct. It's much less depressing to think of it this way...

That's one of my favorite parts about the game. The fact that all the momentum you built up during the campaign is pulled out from under you at the last second, just in time for you to see nearly all your wingmen get vaporized as you run away tail between your legs. It was the best cliffhanger setup I've seen in recent memory.

Though yeah, it did feel like a kick in the gut.

[NFSRacer]

Agreed, but me, the first time I played it, I was focused on the combat, so that kick was more of a miss than anything else, since I think I might have missed something.  Part of the reason why I prefer a mod with voice acting, as that keeps me from missing the important dialog.  Best, and possibly the craziest part of the game, I thought, was the therapy flight between Noemi and Vicmouth.  That mission still creeps me out, but I thought the way it played out was quite creative.  Makes me wonder how Ken is going to play a part in the new chapter.  If I'm honest, I'm just getting that impression just from that mission that he's going to play another part, and even be a part of the Vishnan as well, if they're going to show in the next installment.  I think they are, if the first BP is to be considered.

[Aesaar]

I didn't find it upsetting at all.

I did find it awesome and incredibly well done, though.  Best "cavalry arrives to save the day" moment I've ever seen.  Being on the wrong side of the charge really enhances the effect. 

WiH was a glorious cycle of victory followed by a bigger defeat.

[BlasterNT]

Ugh, Sheppard glisses... so creepy

[LordPomposity]

Just finished the campaign again. The ending is just as upsetting as when I first played through it.

I'm going to pretend the Mr. Cuddles ending was the actual ending and leave it at that, and if/when the next release comes out, I will hopefully have been proven correct. It's much less depressing to think of it this way...

Or you can allow one of the frigates to be destroyed at any point prior to the arrival of the Imperieuse, prompting the rest of the attack force to withdraw and giving you a much happier ending than the mission's "victory" condition.

[MatthTheGeek]

Actually, I doubt it would be much happier. Without the pressure on the Carthage, I kind of expect the Imperieuse deployed elsewhere, say, gutting a Solaris or two.

[CT27]

The thing is, and it is specifically said several times in WiH, the Tevs don't let their aces in the front line very long. They are pulled back and used to train the next generation of pilots, while the UEF keep their aces in combat, where they rank unbelievable kill counts before dying and taking their skill in the grave.

So after five kills in Sol, a GTVA pilot gets sent back home?

[MatthTheGeek]

Not necessarily THAT mathematically accurate, but to oversimplify, yes. The Tevs believe aces are better used training MORE aces, than staying in the front line and die, bringing their hard-earned experience with them in the grave.

Obviously I expect most squadron leaders and members of elite squadrons to be aces, but they aren't going to stay in the front line as long as pilots like Simms of Ng'mei have on the buntu side.

There are also those that become SOC, but the SOC has shown to not keep their pilots with them for very long... (be it because of the casualty rate or because they're often recruited for a specific mission or two then sent back to their squadron.)

EDIT : just because most people arguing in these kind of threads seems to STILL NOT have read Conversations from War in Heaven...

Aboard UEFg Yangtze

"She's too old to fly. She's got to be a danger to the squadron."

"Shut the **** up, Ogre."

"Look, it's not like I'm saying she's a bad person, even a bad leader, but there are limits. She could do more good somewhere else."

"Do you know how many people there are with as many flight hours as her?"

"Hundreds. There've got to be hundreds."

"Maybe ten in the whole Fleet."

"What? That can't be right. At Indra II there were - "

"They're dead."

"How the hell did they all get dead?"

"Look, you want to know why our fighter corps kicked their fighter corp's ass for the last eighteen months?"

"Because they can't fly for ****?"

"It's because they take their good pilots off the line after twenty, thirty sorties and pull them to the rear. Where they train new pilots, build new dicta, and pass on their knowledge. And do you know what we do?"

"We - "

"That's right. We keep people like Flight Lieutenant Ng'Mei on the front line, where they rack up spectacular kill counts and then die like everyone else."

"Makes sense to me. We have to win battles now, not battles in six months. What's the good of an ace if they aren't out getting kills?"

"They have the luxury of using their aces to make new aces. They're running a marathon, we're running a sprint. And that's why their flight corps is getting better and better, and ours is...well, look at the Indus."

"Lorna Simms is - "

" - the only one worth a damn still flying off that ship. The rest are dead. And you know who trained Simms, right?"

"Ng'Mei?"

"Ng'Mei. So learn everything you can while she's still in the cockpit, Ogre, because when she's gone...there's nobody to take her place."

"**** me."

[NFSRacer]

What I'm hoping for the most, though, is another mission where you fly a cruiser into battle, like with the mini-campaign in WiH.  That mission was fun, if challenging!  Reminds me so much of the X-universe!  Still, that, and another skybox mission would be nice.  WiH was my very first campaign where I've seen one be used in FreeSpace, despite how long I've known about them.  I just hope, over all though, is that features that made this mod great, in addition to the story, are added back into BP3...

[Dilmah G]

The thing is, and it is specifically said several times in WiH, the Tevs don't let their aces in the front line very long. They are pulled back and used to train the next generation of pilots, while the UEF keep their aces in combat, where they rank unbelievable kill counts before dying and taking their skill in the grave.

So after five kills in Sol, a GTVA pilot gets sent back home?

If it helps, parallel it with the pilot situation during the end of WWII, with the Allies and the Axis.

The Allies had the luxury of actually having tours of duty for their boys and rotating them home and away from the frontline and whatnot like a healthy unit should. The Axis, or Germans more specifically (not full-bottle on the Italians) didn't have this luxury, and as far as I know, it was never a big part of their military aviation culture to rotate experienced knucks back to training commands.

Instead, German pilots stayed within their geschwader and racked up spectacular kill-counts until they either died or were moved up/out.

So it's not necessarily a case of 'oh, you bagged five, did you, Ensign Bloggs? Well, back through the node you go!' but 'you've done your tour, bloggsy, we're sending you to RAFGTVA training command to do an instructor's course in getting pissed at the squadron bar whilst simultaneously teaching students everything you know for between 6 months to 3 years.' Plus I have a feeling that the definition of an Ace has changed in the FS-verse, given the way the Ace medal is awarded.

[The E]

The actual model we're using is Imperial Japan vs USA in WW2.

[NGTM-1R]

The actual model we're using is Imperial Japan vs USA in WW2.

They won't let you go home unless you're dead.

(I would have done it in Japanese but I can't find my copy of Shattered Sword right now. This upsets me.)

[Dilmah G]

The actual model we're using is Imperial Japan vs USA in WW2.

I see, that seemed about right. My knowledge of the Pacific theatre is pretty poor comparatively, but I have a feeling the same points come through.

[SaltyWaffles]

Just finished the campaign again. The ending is just as upsetting as when I first played through it.

I'm going to pretend the Mr. Cuddles ending was the actual ending and leave it at that, and if/when the next release comes out, I will hopefully have been proven correct. It's much less depressing to think of it this way...

That's one of my favorite parts about the game. The fact that all the momentum you built up during the campaign is pulled out from under you at the last second, just in time for you to see nearly all your wingmen get vaporized as you run away tail between your legs. It was the best cliffhanger setup I've seen in recent memory.

Though yeah, it did feel like a kick in the gut.

These days, I have trouble thinking about that twist without a serious point of fridge logic popping up:

Katana/Insuperable/Altan Orde/etc: Y U NO RAMMING SPEED????

Hell, the Nelson went straight for a ramming attempt as the first resort. They wanted to kill the Carthage more than anything, and they knew the strategic implications of doing so--even at the cost of all of the Wargods (which would actually be a morale and political boon, as it's a very potent, determined message, and a heroic example). The Carthage is already significantly wounded, and all of the secondary explosions from the Apocalypse torps (being antimatter warheads...) would probably ensure a kill from the ramming of even a single Karuna. A Sanctus ramming might do the trick, though that one's not certain. And as for screening a retreat, I imagine the combined blasts/debris/radiation/potential survivors right in front of the Impereiuse is a better screen than slowly engaging in a straight-up slugfest with a Titan, Chimera, and a significant fighter/bomber escort. I thought the Katana and Altan Orde (and other Karunas) have reverse thrust (including afterburners?). Makes ramming much easier and more potent, and it allows you to fire away at those forward beam cannons with your gauss and mass driver guns while retreating at a good pace.

Even worse, all of the Wargods present were totally unhesistant to go down fighting/in a blaze of glory(/death) when the odds were clearly certain (as far as survival goes). There's no way the entire task force had an active aversion to Taking You With Me, Heroic Sacrifice, and/or Ramming Always Works...

[NGTM-1R]

Do we even know that a Karuna has enough mass to make a successful ramming attempt against an Orion?

After all, the Sixth Wonder taught us what a significant mass disparity does.

[SaltyWaffles]

Do we even know that a Karuna has enough mass to make a successful ramming attempt against an Orion?

After all, the Sixth Wonder taught us what a significant mass disparity does.

1) The Carthage was already significantly damaged.
2) A Karuna is pretty big--not a destroyer, sure, but larger than any GTVA corvette. Couple that with the absurd number of Apocalypse antimatter torpedoes, flak munitions, and the reactor itself, and you get one hell of a punch (and bang).
3) The Karuna would be ramming at speeds around 60 m/s....that's considerable.
4) The Colossus skewered that Orion with heavy beams before it even got close. Not exactly much of a ramming attack (with poor speed, to boot).
5) Square-cubed law (IIRC) implies that the Colossus would be made out of (or built to be) far, far sturdier stuff than your average Orion. The attempted ramming was at the frontal armor of the ship, which is probably one of its thicker points.
6) I'm not sure you could even call it a ramming--I always got the impression that Koth's ship was largely gutted by beams before it really hit the Colossus (as in, it blew up before any real ramming occurred).
7) If at first you don't succeed...you've got a lot more options at your disposal. Another Karuna, and/or another Sanctus. And/or the rest of the task force just unloading into the crippled Carthage with Apocalypse spam, point-blank mass-driver shells, gauss cannon fire, and even some PDT and Burst Flak fire for the cherry on top.


Think of it this way:
Canon course of action:
1) Best case scenario: the Indus and Yangtze escape to safety, the rest of the Wargods are dead, and perhaps some barely-moderate damage is inflicted to the Impereiuse. The Carthage escapes with only moderate damage.
2) Worst case scenario: The Wargods are all killed, the Carthage escapes with only moderate damage, and the Imperieuse barely gets a scratch.

Ramming:
1) Best case scenario: the Katana (or Altan Orde) rams the Carthage, killing it and hampering effective beam cannon fire in the vicinity. The rest of the task force engages in a fighting retreat, with the Karunas reverse-afterburning while pounding away with their gauss/mass driver guns, aiming for the forward beam cannons on the other ships. Apoc torps are also spammed. The entire rest of the task force escapes.
2) Worse case scenario: The Wargods are all dead, but the Carthage is completely dead (along with her entire crew and air wing). Combined with the heavy beating the entire Carthage battlegroup took that day, and the loss of the core of the entire battle group's officers/leaders, effectively renders this group out of the fight for the remainder of the war, while time and resources must be taken in getting them out of Sol (along with repairs) and finding a replacement (and getting them up to speed/experienced). Further, the Imperiouse and Hydra are unlikely to be able to participate further in the battles of Delenda Est day.