Author Topic: BP: War in Heaven discussion  (Read 918137 times)

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Offline Hobbie

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I don't think there's anything wrong with the alternate dimension stuff. It works, there's precedent in other mods, and perfectly within the expected capabilities of what we assume to be Type III+ civilizations.
You're messing with dimensions every time you subspace jump anyway.

From the mockups posted whenever, Steele looks like Benjamin Sisko with a bionic eye.

Welp, that explains a huge amount. And the voice recording we have of him matches this completely.
In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed.

  
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I don't think there's anything wrong with the alternate dimension stuff. It works, there's precedent in other mods, and perfectly within the expected capabilities of what we assume to be Type III+ civilizations.
You're messing with dimensions every time you subspace jump anyway.

Fair enough, I just don't like it. Also, it is implied that although on par with Vishnans in every other area, the Shivans aren't all-dimensional and powerful which isn't right.

By the way, I went to the retail campaign, to try it out with media vp's and all that nice shine, also knowing what I know now from BP. GTVA seems to be dead on, as far as their tendencies and behaviour. Just looking at their excursion to Gamma Draconis and agressive handling of that situation, the attack on UEF makes that much more sense.

On another topic completely, I often wondered if the Destroyers' motives are somewhat connected to the fragile relationship and slightly disfunctional and artificial alliance between Terrans and Vasudans. Thinking about it-between Neo Terra, racist remarks all around, Vasudans' superiority complex and difference in basic direction in which the species are heading ( one is dreaming about home, the other is creating another home), it seems that Shivans are the only thing keeping the allies together. Excluding preservers and destroyers, when a generation switch happens and there are no living survivors of the second incursion, a new war seems a high possibility, which then brings the Destroyers back into the fold. Their assesment of Terrans of destroyers is exactly correct by the way, both historically and in FS continuum.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The Shivans and Vishnans aren't on par in any respect, really - they're very, very different, with their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
On another topic completely, I often wondered if the Destroyers' motives are somewhat connected to the fragile relationship and slightly disfunctional and artificial alliance between Terrans and Vasudans. Thinking about it-between Neo Terra, racist remarks all around, Vasudans' superiority complex and difference in basic direction in which the species are heading ( one is dreaming about home, the other is creating another home), it seems that Shivans are the only thing keeping the allies together. Excluding preservers and destroyers, when a generation switch happens and there are no living survivors of the second incursion, a new war seems a high possibility, which then brings the Destroyers back into the fold. Their assesment of Terrans of destroyers is exactly correct by the way, both historically and in FS continuum.

You should definitely browse the BP forums and take a look at the discussions therein regarding the vishnans, shivans, zods and terrans, the mythologies, ideologies, strategies and biologies, etc. I'm sure you'll find them fascinating and entertaining.

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I have, a lot of it. It is fun, yeah. It's tough reading though. Apart from regular off topic, pages and pages are wasted on some who just don't understand basics of the plot or refuse to read the techroom entries.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Yes, this format of discussion has that problem. But the discussion gets so good at some points I wonder if curating the better bits into one big collection wouldn't make it more... consumable.

 

Offline Gray113

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Whilst the discussion board is active are we likely to see any preview pics similar to spectacular previews we were treated to pre tenebra?

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
When we get to a year before release maybe... so I'll guess we'll start seeing those in 2016 or 2017

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Hey so I just noticed that in "Eyes in the Storm" the UEC Ignatius is actually a platform.  At least, when you click on the icon, that's what shows up.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
So this came up in the IRC last night, and Battuta mentioned he hadn't seen the explicit realization anywhere on the boards yet:

Spoiler:
"He waits in the cooling ruin for a daughter made out of war"

That line made its debut in Age of Aquarius, on a cargo container in a Shivan depot.  It is repeated by the Hammer of Light representative in the dreamscape.

He is Admiral Aken Bosch.  The cooling ruin is Capella.  Laporte is the daughter made out of war.  The Hammer of Light knows about Bosch.  What's more, they know where he is.  And they know what he is.

If the Hammer of Light knows, I'd be willing to be that the Jester knows.

If the Jester knows, Emperor Khonsu II knows.

The Vasudan half of the GTVA is aware of the nature of this conflict, and the stakes.  And yet, that knowledge hasn't been shared.

Now why do you think that is?

 

Offline CommanderDJ

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Whoa. :eek2:

Spoiler:
Do they have anything to gain by not sharing? Or would they simply not trust the Terran half with that information?
[16:57] <CommanderDJ> What prompted the decision to split WiH into acts?
[16:58] <battuta> it was long, we wanted to release something
[16:58] <battuta> it felt good to have a target to hit
[17:00] <RangerKarl> not sure if talking about strike mission, or jerking off
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> WUT
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> hahahahaha
[17:00] <battuta> hahahaha
[17:00] <RangerKarl> same thing really, if you think about it

 

Offline QuakeIV

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
It seems to me it would be pretty horifically stupid to not share that.  I guess its believable though.

Also how do we know the GTA isnt aware?

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
If the GTA is aware, they're not doing anything about it.

I'd wager that the distrust between the two halves of the GTVA has reached a point where this could be held in reserve.  Alternately, Khonsu could have easily decided that this is too important to tell the General Assembly.

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The trust isn't so bad that Vasudan reactor techs are kept off military installations/ships. So maybe the 2nd alternative then.

Also, while The Jester may know who and what Bosch is, would he know what Bosch wants/offers? Isn't that the crux of the conflict? Does anyone apart from Laporte (& whoever Laporte has told) know that?
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
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Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The Hammer of Light has an envoy inside the Dreamscape.  If they didn't know before, they do now.

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Oops, I forgot that.  So, does the HoL pass info to the Jester (either knowingly or not) or do they just get data from the same source.  Hmmm... given that only happens at the end of Act 3, and assuming that the info flow is HoL -> Jester -> Khonsu then it may just be that Khonsu doesn't yet have or has only just acquired the knowledge, so he may not have had a chance to tell the GTVA.
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I have a pet theory that the Jester is the head of the HoL, judging by the HoL (and only the HoL among Vasudans, to date) being involved in Nagari.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
That's a great catch Scotty!

Although there's something of an assumption here, why do you assume that the GTA is unaware of Bosch? Steele is clearly aware of "nagari" infiltrations through "dreams", and we all assume he's talking about Vishnans, but he could be more aware of **** than we realise.

Hell, he could even be manipulated by Bosch himself too! (I'm not saying he is, I'm just trying to suss out what is deducible at this point).

 

Offline BritishShivans

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I'm surprised no one caught the "cooling ruin waiting for the daughter of war" thing, too. I forgot about it, but I figured it had to do with Ken and Laporte after playing Tenebra.

 

Offline swashmebuckle

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Watched the WiH developer commentary videos last night. Any chance the rest of the released acts getting a similar treatment?