[Hippo]

The colossus wasn't in Clash of the Titans II... The bastion was though, but the Colossus had been destroyed in the previous mission...

[TopAce]

OH! The mission we are talking about is the Their Finest Hour! I am getting tired.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TopAce
The Colossus can reach everything with her beams. It assumes that the Colossus has all its turrets operational, yes. It also had its turrets operational in Clash of the Titans II. This is merely an assumption since we know what has become of the Colossus in the early mission.

And what we both now even better: We know this discussion will never end unless the thread is closed. We cannot see how this would work in a real mission, and even if any of us(mostly you since I do not FRED assumptions) decide to make a mission similiar to this situation, there are still so many directions where transports and Shivans can come from. There are simply too many possibilities.

We make this thread a site of wrangle, if you stick to. Threads in General FreeSpace or FreeSpace modding are rarely checked by admins anyway, so we can continue this debate until we get bored modding FreeSpace and visiting HLP.

Beam FOV

[TopAce]

Eh?
When something enters the node, it immediatly gets fired upon by the Colossus.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TopAce
Eh?
When something enters the node, it immediatly gets fired upon by the Colossus.

What about the refugee ships?

[Hippo]

the colossus had at least that much common sence... granted, it was less smarter then a support ship, but... meh...

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Hippo
the colossus had at least that much common sence... granted, it was less smarter then a support ship, but... meh...

No.... I mean, what about crossfire?  Flak isn't exactly a precision weapon, not to mention that a large destroyers' explosion would probably cause considerable damage to those in the blast radius.  And that the Shivans could effectively 'hide' behind refugee transports, forcing the Colossus to either hold fire or risk hitting its own kind.

[TopAce]

Originally posted by aldo_14
What about the refugee ships?

The Colossus will not fire upon them obviously and the GTVA will not be stupid to send in civilian transports to co-ordinates where they have to evade the Colossus. The flight path can be properly calculated.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TopAce


The Colossus will not fire upon them obviously and the GTVA will not be stupid to send in civilian transports to co-ordinates where they have to evade the Colossus. The flight path can be properly calculated.

And you think the Shivans will just go 'fair play chaps, we'll let you go past'?  If the Shivans wanted to, all they'd have to do is arrange to arrive right in the middle of the transport group.  Not to mention any incoming transports which were already under attack.

The Shivans have forgotten more about subspace then the GTVA has ever learned.... it's more than within their grasp to track a vessel through subspace and arrive in-position.

Not only that, the sun is about to be nova-ed by 80 Sathani.  There is a full scale war going on - still - and thousands of refugee transports.  Do you really think command could synchronize the arrivals of that many ships, that precisely, and somehow manage to second guess the position of every Shivan ship?

 Or are you suggesting Command would send in transports to a position out of the Colossuses firing range - where they'd be Shivan cannon fodder?

These are the things you need to consider - what will the enemy do?  Can they take advantage of this?  In this case, they can - in fact, it's a perfect situation for them to take out both the Colossus and civvie traffic.

[magatsu1]

wasn't that faint directed at the Gamma Draconis Node, a system with little GTVA civi presence (ie no fleeing transports) ?

[Kie99]

Come to think of supercaps blocking nodes, why didn't the shivans sacrifice 1 Juggernaut and put it near the Vega Node, to stop all the refugees escaping?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
Come to think of supercaps blocking nodes, why didn't the shivans sacrifice 1 Juggernaut and put it near the Vega Node, to stop all the refugees escaping?

Most likely they just didn't give a ****.  

The Shivans were in Capella for some greater purpose than simply wiping out the GTVA.... if you think of the forces they could have used (80 Sathani) versus what the player did encounter, the Shivans obviously weren't giving the conflict with the GTVA anything more than the bare minimum of effort.

If you think of it, a force of 80 Sathani is probably enough to destroy every planet in the alliance.

[Carl]

if you consider that the lucifer fleet destroyed a planet in 13 hours, then 80 ships each about as powerful as the lucy fleet could do it in 10 minutes. and keep in mind, petrarch said that there were over 80.

[TopAce]

What happened to your custom avatar, Carl? Are you no longer an Admin?

[TopAce]

Originally posted by aldo_14

And you think the Shivans will just go 'fair play chaps, we'll let you go past'?  If the Shivans wanted to, all they'd have to do is arrange to arrive right in the middle of the transport group.  Not to mention any incoming transports which were already under attack.

The Shivans have forgotten more about subspace then the GTVA has ever learned.... it's more than within their grasp to track a vessel through subspace and arrive in-position.

Not only that, the sun is about to be nova-ed by 80 Sathani.  There is a full scale war going on - still - and thousands of refugee transports.  Do you really think command could synchronize the arrivals of that many ships, that precisely, and somehow manage to second guess the position of every Shivan ship?

 Or are you suggesting Command would send in transports to a position out of the Colossuses firing range - where they'd be Shivan cannon fodder?

These are the things you need to consider - what will the enemy do?  Can they take advantage of this?  In this case, they can - in fact, it's a perfect situation for them to take out both the Colossus and civvie traffic.

You have just listed 5 possibilities out of 63683.
Let sleeping dogs lie. This will only get worse.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TopAce


You have just listed 5 possibilities out of 63683.
Let sleeping dogs lie. This will only get worse.

I just listed tactics that would destroy the blockade into a massacre.  It's not a possibility, it's a tactic.  If you want a realistic mission, you need to consider and handle the enemys' tactical response - otherwise people will play it, spot the obvious gaps, and as a result have their belief destroyed.

[TopAce]

FS2 is not about realism. It is about playability. If FS2 were realistic, the Shivans would have sent in ONE juggernaut to blockade the node to Vega. Not the firepower of that ONE would have made the Shivans unable to destroy Capella.

[Gloriano]

Originally posted by TopAce
FS2 is not about realism. It is about playability. If FS2 were realistic, the Shivans would have sent in ONE juggernaut to blockade the node to Vega. Not the firepower of that ONE would have made the Shivans unable to destroy Capella.

Shivans Didn't care about GTVA in Capella there was bigger things going on...

[Hippo]

actually, i belive that parking a large solid object on a jump node could have ill effects... considering that a subspace hole is a warphole or other space distortion, whatever part of the interior of the ship would possibly be vaporized... granted, whatever ship arrived would be smashed flat, but it could cause considerable damage to the large object (sathanas for instance)... and because ships can arrive anywhere within the nodes, it could possible hit something vital (if shivans have them) such as reactors (as seen on the rakshasha)... The shivans would probably make such a sacrifice, but something th size of an orion's warphole could come close to severing the ship in two, costing only an orion...

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TopAce
FS2 is not about realism. It is about playability. If FS2 were realistic, the Shivans would have sent in ONE juggernaut to blockade the node to Vega. Not the firepower of that ONE would have made the Shivans unable to destroy Capella.

FS2 well establishes that the Shivans have no interest in Vega.

Realism is an essential part of believability & immersion, which are in turn essential for playability.

  If you leave obvious holes or errors, it helps to destroy the players ability to feel involved.... it makes it obvious the setup has been designed with them in mind, rather than even a pseudo-realistic portrayal of what would happen. People play through, for example, a campaign and say 'why didn;t they do that?', rather than focus on what they did do.