[fener]

Hmm, I always thought the Starcraft manual came with a ton of depth and consistency.

I agree with those points in regard to Warcraft, though.

Agree, loved the manual which came with the original game.

My opinion as far as splitting the games goes is that it would be worth it only if each campaign/game release were equal to in length and content to the original game.

[gevatter Lars]

Except this doesn't give you new factions, weapons or mechanics with the "addon".

This is not completly true.
The point is what you want to call new in that comparsion.
I know all of the W40k factions before they where in the PC-games. I just got over to the next phantasyshop and read the codex for the factiong. People who are actually playing the game where even less suprised.
But that isn't the importend point to me.

Each pack should contain the storyline of one of the factions, a unique playingstyle, terrans AKA Raynor have a more "mercenary" playstyle. Protoss shall become more concerned with diplomatic decicions like what of the many different Protoss tribes you want to assist or ally with and Zerg isn't written in stone yet..at least I don't know anything about it.
So here is a hugh differance between the games on how you play them in singleplayer. Even more the between spacemarines and Tau when you want to take the SC2 - DAW comparsion.

You will also have some unique weapons for each faction in the singleplayer mode. I heard, for example, that Raynor might have to buy some old units like Goliath since he can't affort the newer Viking.

I think, if they will do as they promised its more then just an addon. Its nearly a complete new game sharing the same engine and backgroundstory.
As much as I dislike the splitting and also had the "cheap rip off" thought when I first heard about it I think one should just keep an eye on it.

About Blizzards storys. Well the ingame parts are mostly...simple. On the other hand they had these nice manual and I found it to be a good read. Sure it wasn't the holybook of whatever but good.
It gave you quite a lot of information about the different species, their past and development and a view into the different factions inside of each species.
The game itself was just the last part of a long ongoing conflict. At least that was my impression. Also they have allready said that the limits they had back then prevented them from showing much of the storyline they had planned.

As for WarCraft...I was never that much interested in it. Played it on LAN but it didn't catch to much of my attention. I just prefer Scifi enviourments.

[TrashMan]

Each pack should contain the storyline of one of the factions, a unique playingstyle, terrans AKA Raynor have a more "mercenary" playstyle. Protoss shall become more concerned with diplomatic decicions like what of the many different Protoss tribes you want to assist or ally with and Zerg isn't written in stone yet..at least I don't know anything about it.
So here is a huge differance between the games on how you play them in singleplayer. Even more the between spacemarines and Tau when you want to take the SC2 - DAW comparsion.

So? Sword of the Stars came with 4 races, each totally different in the way you play. Each expansion brought a completley new race + hoards of changes. Each patch brought new stuff. You hear that? A PATCH that brought more changes than a whole new "addon" of SC2.

You get all the factions with each installment of SC2, or else one couldn't play multi. What you don't get is missions.
So yea, it's a poor attempt to milk as much money as possible, and it's a very shallow attempt too. I don't buy games to watch pretty cinematics.

I think, if they will do as they promised its more then just an addon. Its nearly a complete new game sharing the same engine and backgroundstory.

And art. and units. And everything BUT the missions.
No, that's a definition of "ripoff".



EDIT: New as in "new". Something that wasn't in the first part. Yeah, missions fall into the "new" category too, but they way this is done..I'd call it borderline.

For reference, most user-made campaigns for FS2 bring more new stuff than a SC2 part. And I can bet 90% have a better story or execution to boot.

[Stormkeeper]

I will now take this point to note the Valve is releasing HL2 similarly, e.g Episode 1,2 and 3.

I think most of the commotion is that Blizzard didn't reveal initially that they were releasing it episodically, and everyone thought they'd release everything at one shot.

[gevatter Lars]

As I see it, its just a matter of the prize.
SC1 had 30 Missions and would now cost 45-50€
Each pack of the new sets is supposed to have 30-40 missions. Making a total of 90-120 missions.
When they make it true and only the first pack is full prize and the others are prized like addons its cheaper in direct comparsion to the first game.

[Bob-san]

After reading some more comments, my opinion is changed a bit. You have given good points. I do think Blizzard should push it back--but I really would like to play it. I think part of it is a decision based on the engine: they must have a fully-working engine, but pushing it back much more could outdate it? I don't know--but I would like to see something a bit more substantial. Who knows what the storywriters are doing: we could have a fully branching campaign for each race and the voice acting to go with it. They could certainly do a bit more to flesh out the story, so who knows. With all the thousands of play styles in RTS's, they could have quite the time setting up some missions.

[gevatter Lars]

What is most interesting for me is the option that instead of other games where you basicly have the same gameplay with just another faction, the gameplay should change for every race. Mercs, Diplomats and what else for the Zerg. Its rumored to be more RPG like and very much centered around Karigan.

[Ghostavo]

Please, don't let it be another WarCraft 3... I hated the concept of hero units.

Even if they were present in the StarCraft campaign, at least they weren't ridiculously overpowered (Zerg Kerrigan aside) and were not present in multiplayer.

[General Battuta]

What is most interesting for me is the option that instead of other games where you basicly have the same gameplay with just another faction, the gameplay should change for every race. Mercs, Diplomats and what else for the Zerg. Its rumored to be more RPG like and very much centered around Karigan.

There are no hero units, don't worry.

However, each race has a campaign 'metagame' that plays out between missions. The Terrans will have a big 3d-rendered bar where Raynor can wander around and talk to people, and their metagame focuses on upgrading technology and scavenging.

Interestingly, the Zerg metagame has been hinted to be about diplomacy. How odd!

The Protoss metagame hasn't been discussed yet. It might involve hunting for Xel'naga relics or something, since the Xel'Naga are clearly returning and Zeratul is interested in them.

[TrashMan]

I will now take this point to note the Valve is releasing HL2 similarly, e.g Episode 1,2 and 3.

The difference is that FPS levels, like the ones for Half-Life, are FAR harder and more time-consuming to make than missions for a RTS. The whole content is more difficult and time-consuming, compared to War3 and SC2.
Heck, FS2 SCP models and missions re more difficult and time consuming that SC2 ones.

[gevatter Lars]

Interestingly, the Zerg metagame has been hinted to be about diplomacy. How odd!
The Protoss metagame hasn't been discussed yet. It might involve hunting for Xel'naga relics or something, since the Xel'Naga are clearly returning and Zeratul is interested in them.

I heard it a bit different. The Zerg "metagame" is unknown the Protoss is finding allies in the other Protoss tribes. From the latest trailer/news I guess that all factions are interested in the Xel'Naga artefacts. Concidering how powerfull they are in the fiction its no wonder that everyone searches for them.
Blizzard dropped a line that Raynor has the option to search for artefacts and in the trailer we see Zeratul searching an old place, maybe Xel'Naga. At the end of the trailer Karigan appears "I thought so that you would appear"

Anyway the metagame is an quite interesting point. Reminds me of good old Wing Commander where you had placed you could visit and talk to people.

[Mongoose]

The difference is that FPS levels, like the ones for Half-Life, are FAR harder and more time-consuming to make than missions for a RTS. The whole content is more difficult and time-consuming, compared to War3 and SC2.
Heck, FS2 SCP models and missions re more difficult and time consuming that SC2 ones.

I like how you keep making comments like this with absolutely no objective justification whatsoever.  Hell, I've never made so much as a skirmish in FRED, and I could probably whip together a generic defend-a-convoy mission within the course of an hour or two.  You want to tell me that that's the amount of time it takes to craft an entire physical map setup, not to mention working out the objectives, unit deployments, and such?  In terms of pure tehcnicality, FS is just about the easiest game out there to make basic missions for.  You don't need to worry about physical level structures, you don't need to craft terrain...all you have to do is plop down ships in empty space and tell them what to do.

...why the hell am I even bothering with this thread?  I've never played a single Blizzard game.

[TrashMan]

Oh, I have justification.
I have been modding games for years and I made stuff for every type of game you can name. I know very well the differences involved in content for different games.

And it's true that RTS have terrains, that aren't as easy as plopping a FRED background, but what I was implying is that I've seen FS2 campaigns, made by non-professional in their spare times, who's execution and design put to shame most games today - not merely Blizzard. And it's in no small part to the FRED and the modding friendliness of FS, but that's beside the point.

[Mongoose]

I've yet to see a FS2 campaign that in any way lives up to a fully-developed commercial game.  And that's not taking anything at all away from any of the truly excellent campaigns available out there...it's just that they're working with an already-established engine that has already-established modding tools available for it.  Even if it goes so far as to include new models and weapons, any user-created campaign, no matter how well-executed the story is, is essentially utilizing a plug-and-play style of modeling.  That's entire levels of sophistication below coding an entire game engine from scratch and creating every single bit of content for said engine...all of that comes before you can start worrying about the implementation of story, which is the preliminary step in FS2 campaign creation.  And Blizzard's one of the developers I'd put at the very top of the game when it comes to game mechanics and world creation.

[Stormkeeper]

I'm withholding any major for/against comments till after WoL releases.

[Nuke]

thank satan for piracy

[Mongoose]

thank satan for piracy

So again, it's something you want to play, yet since you don't feel like paying the price the people who made it are asking for it, it's perfectly fine to do the equivalent of yanking it off the shelf?  Here's a novel idea:  if you're not willing to pay whatever Blizzard winds up asking for this, don't play it.  We're talking about what at the very most would be three installments of $50 over the course of three or four years for 30+ mission campaigns in each installment, along with whatever multiplayer accouterments go along with them...and that's somehow far too steep of an asking price?  Christ, with that attitude, it's no wonder that a few of these publishers feel like they're forced into shoving asinine DRM all over the place.  Has the concept of paying someone for a legitimate and substantial piece of entertainment completely fallen by the wayside at some point?

[TrashMan]

I doubt very much I'll be buying it OR pirating it.

FYI, Crysis:Warhead brought new weapons, veichles, enemies a new story, new levels and it was sold as an expansion. BoB brought tons of new stuff and it was sold as an expansion. Etc, etc..

SC2 parts don't bring any new content save from different missions and they want to sell it at full price? No. Way. I'd rather be caught dead then buy that.

[gevatter Lars]

Dude are you even reading what other people say or do you just want to honour your name?
As it currently is, they haven't set a prize, they haven't given you a 100% info about what you will get with each pack. The have only announced what you might get and that the prize might be between a addon and a full prize game.
Their current anouncement of what you might get is a complete different gameing experiance, new storyline,  new units and new mission in each pack and if they sell the first for the full prize and every other at the prize of an expension you get quite a lot for you money.

[TrashMan]

Their current anouncement of what you might get is a complete different gameing experiance, new storyline,  new units and new mission in each pack and if they sell the first for the full prize and every other at the prize of an expension you get quite a lot for you money.

That's not their announcement.
However, note that I said IF. If what I fer turns out to be true.
Altough ti's highly unlikely I'd buy or pirate the game either way. Blizzard just lost my trust some time ago. However, we'll see...we'll see.

"new gaming experience" .. lol. .that can mean anything and nothing.  New units? No. Unless you consider Raynors battlecruiser a "new" unit.