Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: vonhertell999 on May 18, 2011, 07:37:39 pm
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definatly my top 3 favourite canon fighters would be:
GTF Ares- good amount of energy, high weapons compatability, many guns and missles.
GTF Myrmidon- Second gun bank has a total of four guns, high for a space superiority fighter. descent speed.
GTF Ulysses- quick, very manuverable, and high weapons compatability.
-------------------------------------Ships i hate----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GTF hercules mark II- slow, low missle capacity and few gun banks compared to the mark I.
GVF seth- though it has a high missle cap. its primary weapon banks are horid for a heavy fighter.
GVF thoth- low missle cap, may be manuverable but only one primary bank. i prefer to be able to arm myself with more than one gun
My conclusion- the vasudans dont make the best fighters on earth. in the galaxy
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Persie. It's just about the ultimate combination of fast and powerful. It's billed as an interceptor but it's by far the best at dogfights.
also you LIKE the MYRM wtF no WAI (the myrm is a terrible fighter)
Also, I know FS's dogfight balance is frakked up (rebalancing every single weapon? WTF, V?), but when I do dogfight I take the Thoth. Good maneuverability, FS1 Zods actually have a decent amount of hull, and 4 firing points on an otherwise light fighter. Combined with the rebalanced brokenly powerful Mekhu HL-D, the Thoth is really the only fighter besides maybe the Pegasus to take in dogfights. Also light fighter dogfight is only dogfight
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true, thoth isnt a horrible fighter, but i always prefer to not be restricted to a single gun bank.
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Shouldn't this be turned into a poll?
Also, I preferred the Perseus before, but after playing Homesick, I'm starting to like the Hercules Mk I as well.
Anyone, tell me, why exactly is the Herc II better than the original? The original has more firepower, and an equally massive secondary load. The Herc I is better due to its increased primary firepower.
Still, I pick the Erinyes as my #1.
So, I think it's something like Erinyes > Ares > Hercules Mk I > Myrmidon > Hercules Mk II > Perseus > Ulysses = Loki for me.
For the bombers, the Bakha just HAS to take this; good speed, maneuverability, and has about the same secondary loadout of even the Ursa giant bomber.
Of course, the tough guys would favor the Ursa or Medusa, but their maneuverability is too ****ty.
Not sure about the Vasudan fighters, though. I haven't played them in quite a while.
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Loki FTW.
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Anyone, tell me, why exactly is the Herc II better than the original? The original has more firepower, and an equally massive secondary load. The Herc I is better due to its increased primary firepower.
More health, better energy recharge, and better gun positions.
Favorite for me is the Myrmidon. I just love that little guy. :P
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Purely on aesthetics the FS1 Terran stable beats the FS2 designs hollow, particularly high marks for the Herc I and Apollo they look like war machines.
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GTF hercules mark II- slow, low missle capacity and few gun banks compared to the mark I.
The Herc 2 actually has substantially more secondary capacity than the Herc 1.
80+100 vs 60+60
It is also (slightly) faster and more maneuverable than the Herc 1.
And it's smaller so it's less of a "PLZ SHOOT ME."
Its gunpoints are better placed so that you can actually hit stuff with all of them.
It has much better energy reserves (probably due to reduced energy drain).
I wouldn't be caught dead in a Herc 1.
Everything it can do I can do in an Athena (in FS1) or a Herc2 (in FS2), and better! (because of better placed gunpoints that you can actually hit **** with).
60 capacity more tempests/trebs > 2 badly placed gun points
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Myrmidon (don't kill me!) and Loki.
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I'd definitely have to say the Perseus is my favorite.
I like the Herc II pretty well too, but I've always thought it looked a little goofy :)
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Perseus allthough for me its tied with the Valk. Probably only because i played FS1 into the ground before I ever played FS2, but yeah. One or the other.
Also I LOVE the Apollo. I love the way it looks, and it feels like a good all rounder. Tbh I feel like the Apollo is an incredibly underrated fighter.
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Perseus has always felt the most fun to fly for me.
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Myrmidon (don't kill me!).
We should form a fanclub.
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You misunderstand me; I love people who fly Myrmidons. Makes easy kills in TvT for the rest of us :P
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I don't believe I was talking to you. :blah:
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Perseus. Fast, reasonably tough, and will get you through any situation short of anti-capship.
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We should form a fanclub.
Have fun with that two member club
as for my favorite fighters, definitely the Horus or Apollo. I hate the Serapis, Tauret (ugly as sin, and the Seth tends to be better for me), the Herc II, Ares and Erinyes. I do have a love hate relationship with the Myrmidon because I hate the ship but I love it when other people fly in in TvTs or dogfights. :P
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The majority of Vasudan fighters tend to fall all to pieces the instant they hit some turbulence.
The Erinyes and the Myrmidon are good in some situations, but they're more like heavy interceptors than anything else. If you need to take down 50 Nahema's without support, I can definitely see the appeal in the Myrm.
Ares is definitely king of the heavy fighter hill, although a properly supported Herc II, Herc or even a Seth are forces to be reckoned with.
The Perseus and the Apollo rock my socks in their respective games. Both are good, reliable dogfighters that can also do some serious strafing runs. These are probably the best player fighters, simply because of their versatility
The Ulysses, the Valkyrie, the Loki, and the Horus are all excellent for short missions where you need to (for example) disable a dragon, but once you get up the difficulty ladder a little bit, they simply have no ability to take any fire at all. I've been one shotted by a Herc I in a Ulysses with good (looking) shields all around.
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FS1: Fav goes to the Ulysses for being so damn maneuverable, the Apollo for being a good all rounder, decent speed and maneuverability, decent shields and armor, decent missile capacity and gun placement; if the mission doesn't call for a specific role, take the Apollo. Honorable mention for the Athena which is most certainly a strike fighter, not a bomber.
FS2: Myrmidon, 6 guns and the option to fit 3 missile types, and yet still has decent speed and maneuverability, I see it as the heir to the Apollo's general purpose throne. Second is the Seraph because I am suicidally insane when I fly and that thing is FUN; with the speed and maneuverability, it feels like the Ulysses mkII. The Perseus takes third because it does it's job.
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It is not suprising that the people who like the Perseus also like the Apollo, since they are basically the Capella-era and T-V War era respectively of the same fighter, stats-wise : same turning rate, same afterburner, same primary and secondary capacity, etc.
The main issue with the Myrmidon and the Erinyes is that because of their low agility and resistance, they have terrible survivability on the field compared to fighters like the Perseus or even fighters like the Herc1/2/Ares who at least can compensate with hull and shields. I wouldn't be surprised if the people enjoying those two are the same as those playing in lower difficulties, where agility and survivability become much less a determining factor.
In dogfights, the Pegasus and the Ulysses easily win the day, because turning rate is the main factor here.
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1: Valkyrie / Athena
2: Ares / Sekkie
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My all time favourite is the Valkyrie. While it does have paper thin hull and barely any shields, it is damn fast, has good firing points and can pack banshees.
While I like the Thoth quite a bit too, it does have bad firing points. Most of the time you can only hit with two of your four primary shots, unless you target is at least as big as an Ursa or Seraphim.
For FS2 it's a bit tougher... I like the 8 barrels of the Erinyes (on low difficulties anyway), but the low weapon energy and manouverbility are quite a drawback. So in the end it would be the Perseus for me too, though I'd still pick a Valkyrie even in FS2 if it would be in there too.
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Perseus for dogfighting and general missions. It's great except on Insane since the AI are cheating bastards even on retail.
Myrmidons if I don't have a better ship, or if there's Helioses for me to use.
Hercules for it's boxiness, I like aesthetics a lot.
Uhh...oh and my favorite, the Galactic Terran Fighter Ares, for dogfighting, interception, heavy assault, convoy, defence, precision/surgical strikes...
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Something to consider about the Myrmidon is that, in addition to being the first fighter you gain access to in FS2, it's also the only one available for quite a long while with more than four gunpoints. If you're looking for a fighter with loads of primary firepower, before the Erinyes becomes available, it's either the Myrmidon or the Herc I (which has lousy placement of its gunpoints). It doesn't make the fighter any better, but it does explain why you might give it a fair bit of flight time, despite its weaknesses.
Personally, I'm partial to the Thoth and the Seth. The thin profiles of the Vasudan fighters is a great boon in a dogfight, and with the Thoth in particular, there's nothing quite like fitting a Mekhu-HL7 and painting the night sky red. I'm not sure why I prefer the Seth to the Tauret, to be honest, but on assault missions, I always find myself choosing the older of the two.
On the Terran side, you can add my name to the list of Perseus pilots. It's just a good mix of speed and durability.
Among bombers, I tend to favor the Medusa. Again, I'm not sure why I tend to favor it over the Artemis, since the turret isn't a huge advantage, and each secondary bank carrying an odd number of bombs is more an irritant than anything else, but given the choice, I take the Medusa.
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You're not alone on the Medusa, BlueFlames. I like the Medusa...for a pretty simple reason, the way the ship is modeled appeals to me. Like the Zeus and Ursa.
Well if I'm given a serious choice, it'll have to be the Artemis/D.H. for blowing corvettes and destroyers up if I have no access to the Helios. For cruisers, my Ares is the way to go!
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Perseus for dogfighting and general missions. It's great except on Insane since the AI are cheating bastards even on retail.
They're not. YOU are the cheating bastard in all difficulties but insane, with damage reduction and all. Even in insane, with retail AI, they actually have a slower fire rate than you and still suck at using burners.
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Perseus is definitely my favorite canon ship, unlike a certain stubby-winged potato that got me routinely killed.
Dual Subachs with either Tempests or Harpoons.
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Hmm, that's a complex question;
Interceptor: Horus
Space superiority: Apollo/Loki - Serapis/Perseus/Mara(both versions); not putting the Dragon, I find its gunpoints a bit hard to use
Muli-role: Apollo - Perseus/Myrmidon
in between : Erinyes
Heavy assault: Herc/Seth - Herc 2/Ares
Light Bomber: Zeus - Bakha/Nahema
Heavy Bomber : Medusa - Sekhmet
When in doubt for a mission, I go for the Apollo/Perseus
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Perseus for dogfighting and general missions. It's great except on Insane since the AI are cheating bastards even on retail.
They're not. YOU are the cheating bastard in all difficulties but insane, with damage reduction and all. Even in insane, with retail AI, they actually have a slower fire rate than you and still suck at using burners.
Well, I was really shocked that when one Subach bolt hit me through my fully shielded front and damaged my hull. I was really surprised, for the first time in my life.
...but being a cheating bastard helps to progress the game!
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The Horus is bleeding awful, the people who say they like it have some explaining to do.
Horrible placed gunbanks, paperthin hull and shielding. The only thing it has going for it is speed. The Valk is just as fast but has better gunpoints and is significantly tougher (in fs1). I'd much rather pick a Uly over the Horus to.
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From what I can gather, it has a decent secondary bank and afterburning...and being 170m/s. That 5 m/s must matter a lot to them, I think.
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Size and recharge time of the burner, plus the fact its stats have been significantly boosted between FS1 and FS2.
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Size and recharge time of the burner, plus the fact its stats have been significantly boosted between FS1 and FS2.
That. I do like flying the Valk, but I never got to fly fs1 Horus, so I can't really compare them. And gunpoints aren't much of an issue against bombers. On any other role however, it tends to suck.
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The Ares for unloading at distant targets, but turning rate is crap.
Otherwise Erynies or Perseus, the others like Uly and Loki, Pegasus seem too paper thin.
The Mara is great exept the 4 gunpoints are not quite enough some times...
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That. I do like flying the Valk, but I never got to fly fs1 Horus, so I can't really compare them. And gunpoints aren't much of an issue against bombers. On any other role however, it tends to suck.
Gunpoints are not an issue when you're shooting at bombers themselves, but most of the time, you'll find yourself also shooting at bombs, where gunpoint position starts to matter.
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That. I do like flying the Valk, but I never got to fly fs1 Horus, so I can't really compare them. And gunpoints aren't much of an issue against bombers. On any other role however, it tends to suck.
Gunpoints are not an issue when you're shooting at bombers themselves, but most of the time, you'll find yourself also shooting at bombs, where gunpoint position starts to matter.
By the time you have access to the Horus, you also have access to the EMP missile. Sending one of those into a formation of bombers effectively defangs them and shuts down any nearby warheads, making them easy pickings for your charge's point defenses. In that scenario, your primaries will be used chiefly against the bombers.
I find the Horus' widely-spread gunpoints most irritating when trying to pop turrets off of capital ships. Save for juggernauts and a few select destroyer turrets, you can't quite make all four bolts hit the specific turret you're after.
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FS 1 era: Apollo and Valk
FS 2 era: Perseus
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Terran Mara, hands down. Who cares if it only has 4 guns when it's the only fighter in the game that can sort of manage sustained kayser fire?
But you only get that for one mission, so perseus for dogfighting, Herc II or Erinyes if survivability is an issue, Sekhmet or Artemis for bombing.
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The Ares can sustain six Kaysers, you know. Unless you're talking about unlimited firing, then...shunt more power to guns.
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And the Erynies could fire 8 Maxims.
It's pretty cool to be able to shoot down Dragons before they can touch you (and be able to dogfight almost everything else), so it's first place in my ranking.
If stealth works, then the Pegasus would be second place. Too bad it can't carry Kaysers.
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The Ares can sustain six Kaysers, you know. Unless you're talking about unlimited firing, then...shunt more power to guns.
Really? I never knew that... I don't think I've ever flown the Aries, except once or twice to experiment. They're sooooo slooooooooow.
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The Ares can sustain six Kaysers, you know. Unless you're talking about unlimited firing, then...shunt more power to guns.
Really? I never knew that... I don't think I've ever flown the Aries, except once or twice to experiment. They're sooooo slooooooooow.
Power draw depends a lot on what difficulty you're on.
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I knew that, and I remember that I never had to put extra ETS into guns while flying Into the Lion's Den. It doesn't meant that the recharge rate was faster than the draw rate on the mara (it isn't, IIRC), but that it took a good 20 seconds or something to empty your energy. Many things should be dead after 20 seconds of sustained quad kaysers.
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"If you think the ares is bad, you do not deserve such a ship."
If you managed slaying ravana, you can handle ares. And unles you are a nutcase and forget your trebuchets, you cant get bad.
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Bomber: Myrm
Why: Dual kayser, 6 treb, 2 helios I LIKE having a bomber at least partly capable of fighting back
Heavy: Ares
Why: The shear stopping power (and interestingly, its easier to hunt lights in a heavy... at least for me)
Light: Uly
Why: Very small profile, good speed, very good turn rate, and a prom s + maxim + temps will rip any fighter to shreds
it is also very satisfying to be called a pain in the ass at the end of a tvt/df, and this ship got me that praise quite often
oh, and the Uly weighs more then a Pers, so I win every time one of those nutty Pers pilots ram me (or I ram them)
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ERINYES
PERSEUS
NOT A FIGHTER BUT SEKHMET
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Erinyes is actually a great dogfighter. If you go on multi, you'd realize how dangerous those things are. However, it might not be as suitable as it should be in campaigns because the player is usually in a furball rather than a duel.
The Ulysses is also great at dogfighting. Profile matters a lot. Here's something else that matters: mass. A Ulysses has a tactical advantage over a Perseus by ramming a Perseus. The Ulysses is actually HEAVIER than the Perseus. When the ram happens, the Perseus pilot would be disoriented from two things: The unexpectedness of the ram and the unanticipated direction change that follows. The Ulysses, being more maneuverable, smaller, and having more mass, is more likely to destroy the Perseus. That, and in can spin circles around the Perseus.
However, I still prefer the Perseus because I can outmaneuver an Erinyes and outdamage a Ulysses. The Perseus is my middle ground for the two fighters. I sometimes use the Erinyes but almost never use the Ulysses. Mostly because Kyad uses it. :<
EDIT: There was no mention of heaver. :nervous:
POST-EDIT:
My opinion on the Erinyes: In one-on-ones, the Erinyes can actually stay still while the opponent has to keep maneuvering to avoid getting shot. The Erinyes has little need to move other than to make the opponent adjust more. Even if the Erinyes gets shot a first by a second, the damage output by the Erinyes would quickly vaporize the more maneuverable fighter.
However, if you add more fighters, teams included, the Erinyes cannot stay still. This limits the ability of the Erinyes to pressure the opponent because if the Erinyes does stay still for a long period of time, someone else will gank it.
Also, the more bandits there are on the field, the less able the Erinyes becomes. Being energy-dependent, it would have to readjust its ETS every time. The Erinyes depends on all three to actually be useful. If it has no shields, then the fighter would break because it's huge. If it has no engines, it cannot avoid knife fights with multiple opponents nor can it avoid missiles. If it does not have weapons, it will not shoot at all.
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GTF Pegasus - It might be difficult to control at first, but it's by far the fastest ship available. It has a weak hull (could it would be busted if it was as durable as a Herc1/Ares) but I would like to think that if you're adept at dodging you're almost unkillable. Doesn't matter how much firepower you bring or how strong your ship is if you can't hit it right? Put a Prom S and two banks of Tempests and you're ready to rock and roll.
GTF Ulysses - Refer to Kyad's post
GTF Perseus - Fast (the turning is inferior to Uly's) and get the intercepting job done. If there's no Uly, I am taking this fighter. I don't do any of that bombing **** cause I don't like slow sluggish ships like the Ares or the Boangers (my god I hate that thing). It's high speed/decent turning or nothing at all *clenches fist*. I prefer Kayser/Morning Star/Harpoon/Tempests on this baby.
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Erinyes is actually a great dogfighter. If you go on multi, you'd realize how dangerous those things are. However, it might not be as suitable as it should be in campaigns because the player is usually in a furball rather than a duel.
Well a furball becomes a duel after a few well placed potshots. Just switch targets often and find the one that moved 150-200 meters away to make another attack run. That's the candidate for having 8 new holes in it.
The ability to carry quite a few missiles as well as it's awesome 1 pass = 1 kill firepower helps avoiding dogfights altogether.
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[/quote]Have fun with that two member club
make that 3
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lol fail quote
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myrm, second bank kayser, first bank maxi, tornados and temps FTW
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The Myrmidon has it's purposes. . . may I ask what difficulty you all are playing at? (not meant as a snub, but I'm genuinely curious)
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vonhertell999.
lern2edit not2triplepost
kthx
Eri is undisputed jousting run king, pretty much. Many gunpoints > Less gunpoints.
I'm a loki/thoth fan myself though (when dogfighting). Not that I'm all too good with either.
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myrm, second bank kayser, first bank maxi, tornados and temps FTW
you must tab load to put a maxim on a myrm and therefore it is not canon
your argumant is invalid
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The Myrmidon has it's purposes. . . may I ask what difficulty you all are playing at? (not meant as a snub, but I'm genuinely curious)
Hard, with occassional forays up to Insane on an easier mission, like High Noob.
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The Myrmidon has it's purposes. . . may I ask what difficulty you all are playing at? (not meant as a snub, but I'm genuinely curious)
Insane all the way because I want a challenge but not get owned by custom AI.
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Athena.
B.t.w. - Erynies has 8 gun banks. Put Subach/Mekhu's in both banks and you don't have to worry about energy.
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Taking an eri and putting a subach(especially 2, why waste a bank on an identical weapon, in any fighter? ever? EVER?) in it is terribad.
Never mind should the subach not be used, but I imagine you could get more DPS out of a single 2 gun bank kayser slot than a lolbach..
Eris should be armed with PromS/Kayser combos unless maxim is required, anything else is a waste of potential, and if you're one of those people who just holds down fire and hopes things end up in your cross hairs, do not even try to justify having an opinion :P
Eri -> Persie -> Ares -> Herc MK1 -> Apollo
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Anubis please
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Anubis has an awesome turning rate. They're much, much worse than Lokis in FSPort with improved AI.
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The Anubis actually looks more like a GTEP Hermes with wings and guns.
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Revised edition:
If fighting capital ships and fighters,
Erinyes > Ares > Myrmidon > Herc II (okay, I never noticed it had better HP) > Herc I > Perseus > Ulysses (crappy secondary size, being very maneuverable isn't really appealing to me as I am used to WWI dogfighting) = Loki.
Fighting capital ships only,
Ares > Erinyes > Myrmidon > Herc II > Herc I > Perseus > Ulysses = Loki
Fighting fighters only,
Erinyes > Myrmidon > Perseus > Herc II > Herc I > Ares (too damn slow) > Ulysses = Loki
I hate fighters with low secondary capacity, and Support ships are only effective if you manage to run away from battle, and not getting swarmed by Lokis/Dragons to death.
If I were given the chance to arm Kaysers, the Terran Mara, hands down. Huge shields and armor, primaries never run out of energy, and is fast = Utterly Badass.
BOMBERS
Sekhmet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything. As much bombs as an Ursa, doesn't suffer from terrible speed and maneuverability, has decent primary firepower, and is scarier than the Nahema (with those alien-green windows of doom), her evil twin sister.
Boanerges < Everything. Poor primaries, just ordinary load of secondaries, is horribly slow. I don't even know why they made it.
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Taking an eri and putting a subach(especially 2, why waste a bank on an identical weapon, in any fighter? ever? EVER?) in it is terribad.
Never mind should the subach not be used, but I imagine you could get more DPS out of a single 2 gun bank kayser slot than a lolbach..
Eris should be armed with PromS/Kayser combos unless maxim is required, anything else is a waste of potential, and if you're one of those people who just holds down fire and hopes things end up in your cross hairs, do not even try to justify having an opinion :P
Eri -> Persie -> Ares -> Herc MK1 -> Apollo
I almost always pair identical primaries together, unless they are in 4:2, like the Myrmidon. Linking identical banks would give me higher dps, and guarantee that the bolt speeds are identical. I hate it when the lead indicator is only for one of the guns, so you end up wasting energy for no hits on one bank at medium range or farther. Unlinking guns works too, but then I'm left with 2 pew pews on most setups.
(speaking of which, I need to go memorize which bolts travel at the same speeds and would make compatible link partners)
Interesting how many people like the myrmidon. Aside from the fact that it carries helios, a lot of people say it's a sucky fighter.
I wouldn't mind it, actually, if not for its huge profile.
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I hate it when the lead indicator is only for one of the guns, so you end up wasting energy for no hits on one bank at medium range or farther.
Really? This is true?! If it is, I'm not going to use different primaries if I could help it.
Interesting how many people like the myrmidon. Aside from the fact that it carries helios, a lot of people say it's a sucky fighter.
It's generally because it has a decent firepower, large secondary bank capacity, and average speed. Nothing's really wrong with it, except, perhaps, for the profile (which I don't actually notice usually; do the enemy AI have a better chance of hitting you this way?).
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Do you play on insane? If you do, AI will have 100% accuracy with lasers onto your lead indicator. That means that the only way to not get hit is to be constantly accelerating somehow, either by changing speed or turning. With the myrmidon's large profile (and poor HP for its size), you need to move a lot more to get your ship out of the line of fire compared to something tiny like a thoth.
Also, profile matters when compared to the hard points on your pursuing fighter. If they have spread out weapons, they're unlikely to have all their bolts hit when the area/profile to hit is smaller.
As for bolt speeds, it's true. Link something slow like a subach to a morning star. You'll notice that your lead indicator will be much closer to the target, and is actually that of the morning star. If you chain the two, your subachs will usually miss.
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I almost always pair identical primaries together, unless they are in 4:2, like the Myrmidon. Linking identical banks would give me higher dps, and guarantee that the bolt speeds are identical. I hate it when the lead indicator is only for one of the guns, so you end up wasting energy for no hits on one bank at medium range or farther. Unlinking guns works too, but then I'm left with 2 pew pews on most setups.
(speaking of which, I need to go memorize which bolts travel at the same speeds and would make compatible link partners)
Interesting how many people like the myrmidon. Aside from the fact that it carries helios, a lot of people say it's a sucky fighter.
I wouldn't mind it, actually, if not for its huge profile.
Pairing primaries and linking them does not increase your DPS (though it does up your burst DPS which (can be important but is more effective using Prom S AND Kayser at any real dogfight range), supposing you're using Prom S or Kayser isn't terrible but any other weapon combination is an utter waste of time and space)
A few things to note;
The lead indicator being a guide for one weapon doesn't make any difference at dogfight range;
Note for note;
The higher skill level a pilot, the closer the dogfight range will be.
Note for note for note;
You take an Eri, Prom S, Kayser, and Tempest, fire them all at the same time, and basically two shot anything at superduper close range. - You can oneshot some stuff with weaker shields.
There is no other combo. Not for vs AI standard set up, unless you're doing tactical crap (-> Ares/MK2, Maxim, Kayser/PromS, Tempest, Trebuche).
TvT dogfighting at higher skill levels are done in light fighters and is a different kettle of fish.
Linking the same primary weapon with itself does not increase DPS, only burst, and, while it is better than having a singular one because burst > DPS - it's still a waste of space, you would be better off using another gun entirely, for tactical reasons, or increased overall damage.
If you are shooting things at LONG (read, anything over 500-600) range for any period of time you can swap to a single bank if it makes you feel any better, but it's not like it's important then anyway.
Profile is insanely important, many people ignore the fact that fighters (especially the frigging myrm) are almost as big as freighters in profile sometimes!
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Playing on Insane actually strips out all the fun and makes you work on literally survival mode. You'll need to chose the finest fighter around, like the Erinyes, and arm it with (I agree to QD) something like Kaysers and Prom S's, or dual Prom S's (the Kayser depletes brutally fast especially when on insane, on something like the Eri which has 8 guns).
It's preferable to have Tempests, as the Insane AI can usually shrug off heat-seeking/aspect seeking missiles. Don't ever use the Infyrno or Piranha, they'll get you killed faster than your insane enemies. Crappy speed, unreliable accuracy. Even if you're an expert, still, it won't be effective against things like the Dragon. Plus the fact that it occupies a huge load of secondary capacity.
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Pairing primaries and linking them does not increase your DPS
It does, on paper at least. Two linked banks only reduces ROF to 2/3; three linked banks reduces it to 1/2. Whether the shots hit is another matter.
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Yeay for 1.33 DPS gain :P
Double Subach has been validated for all!
On a more serious note;
Burst damage means when you have no choice but to pair something (read; the early main campaign missions where you're stuck with subach or lolR that you may as well use double subach).
Otherwise though, the combo of energy to damage with practicality is the best in the game, you wont beat prom s + kayser for dogfighting.
Double Kayser or Double Prom S both have comparative drawbacks (either too much direct energy drain or not /really/ enough shield damage vs heavier/multiple enemies and therefore requiring more shots, and more energy anyway :p).
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Double Kayser or Double Prom S both have comparative drawbacks (either too much direct energy drain or not /really/ enough shield damage vs heavier/multiple enemies and therefore requiring more shots, and more energy anyway ).
Whatever is on an Erinyes is already utterly fatal, since it will always have eight of them.
The Prometheus S is already a deadly weapon, and is an annihilator in the hands of an Erinyes. Even Seraphims will fall like flies if you add the Tempests to that.
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Whatever is on an Erinyes is already utterly fatal, since it will always have eight of them.
*** MatthTheGeek loads 8 Lampreys on Marcov's Erinyes... ***
Seriously, you need to stop making argument as if Easy was the reality. It's not. Insane is the only difficulty where you don't get magical damage resistance, energy recharges and where your enemies aren't just flying targets (well, they still are with retail AI, but you get my point).
The Ery is just too slow and doesn't have the energy output to be the ultimate fighter in real, Insane gameplay. It's a good fighters, but like most of the good fighters in FS, it has pros and cons, which are more or less strong depending on your own style of flight.
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Best fighters:
1. Terran Mara
2. Erinyes
3. Horus
Best bombers:
1. Sekhmet
2. Artemis and Artemis D.H.
3. Amun
Worst fighters:
1. Ares
2. Serapis
3. Anubis
Worst bombers:
1. Boanerges
2. Osiris
3. Athena
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The Artemis is pants
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How the hell is the Athena in "worst bomber"?
First of all, tt's not a bomber. The designation lies.
Its an assault fighter, and a better one than the Herc 1 at that.
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If it had better weapons compatibility.
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The Athena is the light bomber of FS1...
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTB_Athena
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If the Athena could carry stuff like Hornets and Prometheus, it would be better than the Herc.
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No it isn't.
As I said, the designation (and tech description) blatantly lies. It's not the first time :v: has done it.
It doesn't carry any bombs whatsoever. Ergo, it isn't a bomber.
Wait. Ow. I didn't know its compatibility sucked that bad. O_o
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Well it depends what your definition of bomber is. It can do surgical strikes.
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Well it depends what your definition of bomber is. It can do surgical strikes.
So can a Perseus.
Point?
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"bomber" is a horribly defined class anyway.
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Ships I like:
Hercules MKI: 6 gun banks, lots of missiles, good armor. Very well suited for an aggressive flying style.
Perseus: Good speed and agility, an excellent general-purpose fighter.
Ursa: It can carry easy-to-use tempests instead of difficult-to-aim hornets or low-capacity rockeyes. This can make all the difference against enemy fighters during a bombing mission.
Ships I hate:
Myrmidon: Gun placement is troublesome, second missile bank is horrid for firing tempests out of.
Vasudan craft in general (combination of the above and the below)
Anything with ridiculously high turning ability, because it then becomes hard to aim with my joystick, and I can't even turn at maximum angle for fear of overturning, thus wasting the craft's potential.
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"bomber" is a horribly defined class anyway.
I define a bomber as anything that can carry bombs. Seems obvious.
Tsunamis, Harbingers, Cyclops, Helios.
The Myrm is a bomber. The Athena is not.
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Well then your definition of bomber is different to FreeSpace's.
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The myrmidon carrying torpedos is quite possibly a :v: bug, according to the Freespace wiki. Note that it carries the ultra-heavy Helios torpedo but not the lighter, more common/cheaper Cyclops. Also note that the Heilos and Myrmidon don't appear together on any of the retail freespace missons, so Myrmidon bombing runs aren't very common.
EDIT: The Athena was probably made to saturate cruisers and transports with fury missles, as it was made before torpedos proper. That makes it a bomber (albeit one that becomes horribly outdated when torpedos are introduced.)
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I feel my definition is more consistent with the roles the craft can actually perform, thus it is more correct.
The fact that it doesn't line up with FreeSpace's definition I attribute to mistakes on :v:'s part. Such as the myrmidon w/ helios being a potential table mistake, the beam-less Mentus, blatant lying about ships having more turrets than they really do, etc.
In my mind, the Athena should really carry Tsunamis, and the Myrm no helios.
Then it all lines up.
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I feel my definition is more consistent with the roles the craft can actually perform, thus it is more correct.
The fact that it doesn't line up with FreeSpace's definition I attribute to mistakes on :v:'s part. Such as the myrmidon w/ helios being a potential table mistake, the beam-less Mentus, blatant lying about ships having more turrets than they really do, etc.
In my mind, the Athena should really carry Tsunamis, and the Myrm no helios.
Then it all lines up.
Hense my comment about the Athena being made obsolete by the Tsunami. It probably wasn't made to fire anything as big as a Tsunami.
Although, how difficult can it be to retrofit an Athena with missile banks that CAN fire Tsunamis? It's probably a matter of balance more then anything else, an Athena with Tsunamis has enough agility to take on fighters (or at least defend itself), as well as being able to take out large warships.
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Correct.
The Athena was a bomber in a game that made sense :P
It bombed in the way Alex suggested.
It's not a strike/assault fighter because it has terrible weapon loadouts.
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The Athena's perfectly zeroed guns for engaging small targets make me suspicious of anything that says it was meant solely as a bomber. They allow near-perfect precision without effort, which makes engaging small targets like turrets, fighters at range, or bombs simple. Its compatibility with Phoenix V and Interceptor missiles is also very suspicious. In a lot of ways, I think the Athena would be a better interceptor than anything cast in the role.
The assertion the the Helios thing is a bug has always seemed thin to me, as most people immediately follow up with "it should have been harpoon" and there are missions where both are available and would even be useful together, during your time with the Raptors.
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The myrmidon carrying torpedos is quite possibly a :v: bug, according to the Freespace wiki.
Veteran comments are merely the opinions of the members you see here. There is nothing concrete to indicate that "Helios" was intended to be "Harpoon" although it would make sense.
Also note that the Heilos and Myrmidon don't appear together on any of the retail freespace missons, so Myrmidon bombing runs aren't very common.
They do in retail multi missions, but that doesn't make it much more common.
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Personally, I think the Athena is more of a Strike fighter. The ability to carry stilettos allows it to disable capital ships, the tight grouping on the guns makes it ideal for shooting out small turrets and it has enough secondary capacity to wade through medium sized targets like freighters and bombers, and even cruisers if you have enough Athenas. Think of the first mission you fly the Athena on, your job is to disable a cruiser so it can be captured.
Personally, I don't buy the idea that the Athena has no ability to carry bombs because they were developed after the Athena. The Terrans and Vasudans were supposedly at war for 14 years, surely they would have something for anti-capital ship work. I justify it that by the time you are authorized to use Tsunamis and Medusas, they have replaced an older bomber carrying older bombs.
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Please (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkI4uWjJHs&feature=player_detailpage#t=17s)
Stop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkI4uWjJHs&feature=player_detailpage#t=26s)
Making (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lA2CUBbRKA&feature=player_detailpage#t=51s)
**** (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghkVCdsALjg&feature=player_detailpage#t=160s)
Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghkVCdsALjg&feature=player_detailpage#t=172s)
To recap;
Before the Medusa and the Tsunami there were no bomber deployable bombs which were used in the fashion that's seen more or less exclusively in FS2.
The Athena carried 'Stiletto Bombs', and ships were disarmed, and disabled, and pounded to death with raw primary and secondary fire, or friendly capship support - the second game broke this.
The URSA and the Harbinger were developed together in order to allow the only previously existing "bomb", which was previously reserved for orbital bombardment (assumably, from capital ships).
If you weren't around for FS1s multi days, and played FS1 rather a /lot/ before FS2 came out, and let the FS1 universe soak in before FS2 came and turned it all on it's head, you should probably NOT make assumptions based on how FS2 works when you talk about FS1, because, they're not the same.
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You're ruining the creativity of debate. :p
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GTF Ares is my preferred mount with Trebs as secondary and Kaisers as Primary. Altho I do like the GTF Persus and it's interceptor role but feel it's somewhat limited in what i can do. Kinda of being restricted in it's load out. What really bugs me the most is the size of the missiles versus the ship it's self. But that's another story. :) But playing FS1. I happened to like the Ol Herk best.
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Herc 2's and Ares. And the Artemis :D.
The Serapis is... interesting. You've got a lot of manouvrability, but you absolutely have to use it as well. It can become a tool of death, but it is absolutely unforgiving.
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Please (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkI4uWjJHs&feature=player_detailpage#t=17s)
Stop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkI4uWjJHs&feature=player_detailpage#t=26s)
Making (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lA2CUBbRKA&feature=player_detailpage#t=51s)
**** (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghkVCdsALjg&feature=player_detailpage#t=160s)
Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghkVCdsALjg&feature=player_detailpage#t=172s)
To recap;
Before the Medusa and the Tsunami there were no bomber deployable bombs which were used in the fashion that's seen more or less exclusively in FS2.
The Athena carried 'Stiletto Bombs', and ships were disarmed, and disabled, and pounded to death with raw primary and secondary fire, or friendly capship support - the second game broke this.
The URSA and the Harbinger were developed together in order to allow the only previously existing "bomb", which was previously reserved for orbital bombardment (assumably, from capital ships).
If you weren't around for FS1s multi days, and played FS1 rather a /lot/ before FS2 came out, and let the FS1 universe soak in before FS2 came and turned it all on it's head, you should probably NOT make assumptions based on how FS2 works when you talk about FS1, because, they're not the same.
I've yet to see any real evidece of what you mention.
There are quite a few things mentioned, but never seen in FS.
There is little sense in calling someting a bomber when it doesn't carry bomb. And that very link you provided shows that Stilleto was a NEW weapon, so there must have been something for the Athena to use prior to that.
that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
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You know, I kind of find it funny how the Freespaceverse develops so rapidly over the course of a few years.
You have an Orion, the undisputed giant of the navy now, Harbingers to take down an uber-warship the enemy has, then the next thing...you have gigantic Meson bombs capable of bringing down a node, beam cannons, flak, Colossus (though admittedly a quite impractical project if we weed out the propaganda factor), stealth fighter, etc.
This feel is further enlarged when I played the Unification Mod (the one before T-V War), I mean...the GTVA has managed to colonize dozens of systems in...a few dozen years?
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Making **** up while asking people not to.
We have no idea of the state of weapons development or otherwise before FS1 opens. One does not materialize a weapon and a role for it full-formed. These things must be grown into. Yet the GTA had not only a weapon and a platform to deploy it from in development, twice, in the bomber role, but they appear to have materialized a doctrine for its employ that wasn't half-bad considering the limitations. We also know that the Vasudans had dedicated heavy and medium bombers with weapons powerful enough to destroy Orions, and a counterforce would be a logical reaction.
The assertion that there are no destructive bombs before the Tsunami is, at best, slightly less likely than the alternative. Both arguments can be made, but do not pretend yours is better.
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Well the Ulysses couldn't have been in development for longer than the space of time of FS1.
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I just said GTA bomber launched bombs.
The absolute lack of bomber employment in any fashion against any capital ship you see in the game up to the point where you get the Tsunami, other than a capture mission (Taranis) would suggest.
The Zods show up with the Osiris in the early missions.. they seem pretty common, but the GTA never even mention it.
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I just said GTA bomber launched bombs.
The absolute lack of bomber employment in any fashion against any capital ship you see in the game up to the point where you get the Tsunami, other than a capture mission (Taranis) would suggest.
The Zods show up with the Osiris in the early missions.. they seem pretty common, but the GTA never even mention it.
You never really go on any missions that'd require bombers up to the point of the Tsunami introduction.
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The Myrmidon is the ultimate multirole fighter. It doesn't excel at any one thing, but it can carry a good primary loadout of Prom S/UD-8s, can carry Helios torpedoes, and tornadoes. A wing or 2 of Myrmidons can shred an enemy CAP and proceed to bring down capital ships with its Helios torpedoes.
That said, nothing is better then the Herc II.
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Carrying Helii on a Myrmidon is about as unrealistic as fitting a Boeing 747 in a jeep.
That said, on Insane it's a nightmare to fly on a Myrm; the only flaw (and it's a major one) is the large target profile. Anything else, it actually excels at, with decent firepower (more than Herc II/Ulysses), average speed, okay hitpoints, fine secondary loadout.
Terran Mara of course, hands down. Super-Fighter. Period.
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I'll bite.
The Apollo and Athena. They both have amazing aesthetics (They're beautiful ships, simple as that), very good primary shot groups (The Apollo is like the Pyro GX's Quad Lasers, who wouldn't like that?), have good performance, and they're pretty damn tough. While the Apollo's secondary placement is less than favorable the Athena has a tighter placement of secondaries and has a good missile capacity for prolonged rocket strikes. As mentioned it is a bomber fast enough to effectively dogfight, which is true to the point where the Athena is closer to a multirole vessel than most other fighters and bombers.
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The Athena has terrible maneuverability, gun placement doesn't mean **** when you can't turn fast enough to hit what you're trying to kill.
The Apollo, however, is a wonderful ship. It even turns faster than the Valk.
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I don't have too many problems hitting stuff with an Athena, in fact I tend to make it a practice to take out fighters even in heavier bombers since they'll simply slaughter all the allied bombers before whatever capital ship needing to be destroyed is even touched.
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Same, it's good that the AI isn't smart enough to figure out which guy is trying to be a fighter while flying a bomber, otherwise the entire escort wing would just sit there and blast you without trying to get right behind you first...
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Herc II.
Give me 400 Tempests, a load of Harpoons, a set of Kaysers and a set of Maxims, and your Shivan problem will be solved. :D
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Apollo, just cause I like how it looks. I even fly it late in to the vanilla campaign.
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I'm going to throw some love to the Myrmidon. It's stats are middle of the road, sure, and it can't take the Harpoon, but with the correct loadout, it's a potent machine when your tech level is limited (i.e. early in campaigns). That third bank is what makes the difference - with 160 Tempests to pump out damage on smaller caps (and for dogfighting), 5 rockeyes for long range sniping and 16 Tornadoes for dogfighting peskier opponents, the Myrmy can do a little of everything with one loadout, which is something that no other fighter can do - at least, until you get access to some late game weapons like the Maxim. I like that.
My favourite, though, is either the Sekhmet or the Ares, because I'm bomber jock at heart, and I just love solving problems by throwing high explosives at them. :D
[EDIT]Oh, almost forgot - where firepower isn;t an option (dogfighting, I guess) then I love the handling on the Thoth. It's the perfect balance of rot/damp, turning peed and acceleration that it feels like it goes exactly where you point it - no sluggishness, no jerkiness, no overshoot.
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As an attack pilot, I give my respects to yonder bomber scruffs.
;)
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Herc II.
Give me 400 Tempests, a load of Harpoons, a set of Kaysers and a set of Maxims, and your Shivan problem will be solved. :D
Except when something faster than an assault fighter comes in, then you're ****ed. Same for a Myrm pilot.
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Or even someone with Lampreys.
No weapons energy + Kayser/Maxim = Sad Panda
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Hey, an Ares can outlast most canon fighters in ramming competitions with max impulse!
...probably.
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Hey, an Ares can outlast most canon fighters in ramming competitions with max impulse!
...probably.
Doesn't matter when you're not fast enough to ram them. :P
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Three posts on the same page whining about slowness from the same person. :P
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Doesn't matter when you're not fast enough to ram them. :P
Your speed doesn't matter. The speed of the poor enemy AI failing to evade does :p
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Unless you're trying to ram a Dragon...
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Unless you're trying to ram a Dragon...
Not terribly difficult, it will usually ram you.
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That's never happened for me... at least below normal difficulty.
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It's the Serapis for me. I absolutely adore its maneuverability and the slim profile. Its paper-thin armour and shielding don't bother me much as I can usually outmaneuver everything except a Dragon.
Bomber-wise, the Sekhmet for obvious reasons.
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The Sekhmet is the only bomber worth flying.
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The Sekhmet is the only bomber worth flying.
Signed.
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I like the Boa. If I'm in a bomber I shouldn't be dogfighting, that's what I have wingmen for, and it's fast enough to get where it needs to (albeit not quickly).
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I like the Boa. If I'm in a bomber I shouldn't be dogfighting, that's what I have wingmen for, and it's fast enough to get where it needs to (albeit not quickly).
It's actually quite cool if there are like 6 of them and they're all armed with Helioses.
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I like the Boa. If I'm in a bomber I shouldn't be dogfighting, that's what I have wingmen for, and it's fast enough to get where it needs to (albeit not quickly).
Too bad that's hardly how it works.
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If I'm in a bomber I shouldn't be dogfighting, that's what I have wingmen for.
Except I really don't have wingmen and I've got to get that ****ing basilisk off my tail, and it ain't happening in a Boa.
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If I'm in a bomber I shouldn't be dogfighting, that's what I have wingmen for.
Except I really don't have wingmen and I've got to get that ****ing basilisk off my tail, and it ain't happening in a Boa.
Except your wingmen are useful, because of Fury AI.
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Except not everyone uses Fury AI.
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I like the Medusa. :(
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Yes the Medusa is awesome. :D
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I like the Medusa. :(
Medusa is #2 to the Sekhmet IMO.
Definitely not looks-wise, of course...
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Herc II.
Give me 400 Tempests, a load of Harpoons, a set of Kaysers and a set of Maxims, and your Shivan problem will be solved. :D
Except when something faster than an assault fighter comes in, then you're ****ed. Same for a Myrm pilot.
Not necessarily true. The Herc is durable enough and maneuverable enough to give most adversaries a hard time in a dogfight. Responsible ordnance selection will also make your life much longer - Transcend is a good example of what responsible ordnance selection IS NOT.
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Transcend is a good example of what responsible ordnance selection IS NOT.
lol default loadout.
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If I'm in a bomber I shouldn't be dogfighting, that's what I have wingmen for.
Except I really don't have wingmen and I've got to get that ****ing basilisk off my tail, and it ain't happening in a Boa.
Except your wingmen are useful, because of Fury AI.
Fury AI does not make bomber AI less retarded.
Nor does it allow AI piloting Boas to do anything but die horribly.
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I've had surprises with Artemis D.H. in BP with General AI.
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I've had surprises with Artemis D.H. in BP with General AI.
And I with shivan bombers in TOD. NEVER give them Fury AI. You won't survive that. It's like attacking a Aeolus in a Pegasus.
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I love flying the Erinyes. It turn and move a little slower than other fighters, but those eight cannons make for a nice equalizer. That said, I also happen to like the Serapis, Valkyrie, and Herc-1 and all for the same reason--that center-mounted primary for precision targeting.
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Not necessarily true. The Herc is durable enough and maneuverable enough to give most adversaries a hard time in a dogfight. Responsible ordnance selection will also make your life much longer - Transcend is a good example of what responsible ordnance selection IS NOT.
The SF Dragon has nearly the same amount of effective HP as a Herc II (including shields) and is much faster and much smaller. The Manticore is also pretty close, with 500 shields and 100 hull. Same with the Mara, at 620 shields and 200 HP. And guess what. Every single one of these fighters are much faster and turn faster than the Herc II. Also, I'm fairly certain the Herc II's maneuverability is pretty close to a Medusa's, which is hardly' maneuverable enough to give most adversaries a hard time.
See, the thing in FreeSpace is, speed and maneuverability (and size, but to a somewhat lesser extent) factor much more into a ship's survivability than just pure hull. This is why bombers are inherently terrible at killing fighters in FreeSpace. For example, you could have a fighter, bomber, whatever with 2000 shields and 2000 hull, and it would be slow and have slow maneuverability. It would still get trampled on by even lone fighters, so long as the pilot has half a brain.
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It's like attacking a Aeolus in a Pegasus.
I've done that and won.
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Shoot the AAA beam on one side of the ship with a Trebuchet, pummel with Prometheus S from outside flak range. :P
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Nah, Trebuchets in both banks and liberal use of the support ship
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It's like attacking a Aeolus in a Pegasus.
I've done that and won.
In this Case, it's like attacking an Aeolus in a Pegasus on the hardest difficulty. And you're armed with Subachs and Harpoons.
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Attack an Aeolus with any kind of ship with that load out head on and you'll die. Then again you could still probably try to pummel it out of its range. You need better analogies...
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I can beat an aeolus in that.
You just need to get into its sole blind spot (directly behind).
You could kill it in an unshielded anubis, given there are no hostile fighters around.
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In retail you can attack an Aeolus in just about anything on Insane and survive. It's a matter of taking out the defenses on one section before they kill you. In a Pegasus, it's partially luck (killing the AAA beam takes precedence) you just need to dive in fast so that only a few turrets can attack you (side / bottom is usually best) and then take those out. After that its a matter of taping fire down.
Try that in Vassago's Dirge and you're toast. WiH you can still do it to an extent, although it varies from Aeolus to Aeolus. The Hyperions are pretty excellent at killing you at range however, and never mess with a Chimera directly.
Leviathans can actually be a bit more dangerous with four AAA.
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Leviathans can't project all four AAAs at any target, sadly. Well, two already are dangerous enough...
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Leviathans can't project all four AAAs at any target, sadly. Well, two already are dangerous enough...
360 by 180 coverage though. Those things WILL **** you up
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I think we've gone off-topic....
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Favourite fighters of Canon........Hmmmmmmmm..... who here likes disputing canon :nervous:
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I also like the Horus... also purely for aesthetics. :nervous:
In fact in one play through of the campaign I flew it instead of the default Seraphis for intercept roles.
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I also like the Horus... also purely for aesthetics. :nervous:
In fact in one play through of the campaign I flew it instead of the default Seraphis for intercept roles.
I always do that
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I also like the Horus... also purely for aesthetics. :nervous:
In fact in one play through of the campaign I flew it instead of the default Seraphis for intercept roles.
I always do that
The Serapis is a death trap for me, but I like that ship.
BTW I love the Tauret and the Sekhmet.
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Sekhmet is awesome
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Except for the fact that it has one gunbank...which means that you have to choose between maxim spamming and being able to defend yourself.
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Let the Maxim spamming to Herc2s and Areses. That's what they're good at, with Treb spamming. And let the bombing to bombers.
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I can kill shielded fighters with maxims. You just have to shoot them a lot.
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Well you also have to make sure you're not missing too much and you can keep enough energy to continue shooting at them, most importantly you need to make sure you don't have other fighters trying to kill you and forcing you to divide your attention between firing and dodging. :nervous:
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Firing while dodging is easy though
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Hercules mark II for weapon load out , cause you can carry a lot of EMP missiles , well I like that ship only when emp missiles are available, when not I like the perseus , armed with full tempest missiles
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Don't really like allowing my allies to use EMP missiles.. it gets very annoying.
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Tell me about it
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If the electrical nebula-esque EMP wasn't bad, getting killed by a ton of friendly EMP missiles is.
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Yes, but hitting your target while firing and dodging is harder... ;)
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I've been finding it near impossible to do both at once because I have to line up my sights, which makes me vulnerable.
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Then try my way. Constantly fly in random directions and hope some of your shots hit something. :lol:
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Yes, but hitting your target while firing and dodging is harder... ;)
No, that's easy
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No, it's hard, you can't hit a Dragon on Insane difficulty on an Ares with Prometheus R's with another Dragon behind your back period
even if youre the "pro" here doesn't mean you can't outsmart the AI on hardest difficulties with the crappiest fighter
also you can beat the aeolus you cant beat the deimos arm your pegasus with prometheus r and harpoons see if you can disarm the whole ship
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Simply put you couldn't beat a Deimos anyway unless you had the proper weapons to actually take it down unlike a Cruiser.
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Who the **** uses Prom Rs? I mean seriously, they're probably the ****tiest direct-damage primary in the game.
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They should only be used if you want to prove how badass you are:
-beat the game on insane (with fury AI), using only Prom R's (if available)
-order all wingmen to depart immediately
-no secondaries
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Also, delete your pilot every time you die. And Final Destination only, of course :p
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No, it's hard, you can't hit a Dragon on Insane difficulty on an Ares with Prometheus R's with another Dragon behind your back period
even if youre the "pro" here doesn't mean you can't outsmart the AI on hardest difficulties with the crappiest fighter
also you can beat the aeolus you cant beat the deimos arm your pegasus with prometheus r and harpoons see if you can disarm the whole ship
I can never hit anything in an Ares, period. I hate that ship.
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I agree. It's same deal with other heavy fighters, too. The gun placements just don't agree with me.
Who the **** uses Prom Rs? I mean seriously, they're probably the ****tiest direct-damage primary in the game.
IDK why they were such a big deal in the FS universe. :lol:
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Nothing to do with gun placements. To be honest, they're not that bad on the Ares. It's just that it takes an hour and a half to turn around and try to point the guns to your target. Not to mention reaching firing range of your target to begin with.
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I agree. It's same deal with other heavy fighters, too. The gun placements just don't agree with me.
Who the **** uses Prom Rs? I mean seriously, they're probably the ****tiest direct-damage primary in the game.
IDK why they were such a big deal in the FS universe. :lol:
The R version is da best weapon of all....Joke. I don't know why [V] implemented them.
But I like the Ares. You have to shoot from distance, it isn't the best idea to go into knife fight with that thing.
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Yeah, I figured cause it's slow, but even with it's enhanced shields and strong hull, flying it just makes you too much of a target. I prefer the Erinyes for heavy assault roles.
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I agree. It's same deal with other heavy fighters, too. The gun placements just don't agree with me.
Who the **** uses Prom Rs? I mean seriously, they're probably the ****tiest direct-damage primary in the game.
IDK why they were such a big deal in the FS universe. :lol:
I think their gun placements are just fine, they're a little above the reticle but the grouping is tight.
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According to QD the FS2 reticle is off-centre anyway.
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I noticed that when the velocity indicator used to be active, like by a few pixels to the right.
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QD also said the FS1 reticle was more accurate, as were the crosshairs in WiH.
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Yeah, I figured cause it's slow, but even with it's enhanced shields and strong hull, flying it just makes you too much of a target. I prefer the Erinyes for heavy assault roles.
I'd still take the Ares for de-turreting and stuff like that. After all, the Ares can take 24 trebs, which is way more than Eri. The Eri can take like 10, which just isn't enough in some cases.
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11 Trebuchets, five on the first bank and six on the second.
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Yeah, I figured cause it's slow, but even with it's enhanced shields and strong hull, flying it just makes you too much of a target. I prefer the Erinyes for heavy assault roles.
I'd still take the Ares for de-turreting and stuff like that. After all, the Ares can take 24 trebs, which is way more than Eri. The Eri can take like 10, which just isn't enough in some cases.
The Ares is also one of the few fighters capable of engaging a Nephilim/Seraphim head-on (by accident, no less) with dual Kayser banks and survive without being mangled badly for the rest of the mission.
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They should only be used if you want to prove how badass you are:
-beat the game on insane (with fury AI), using only Prom R's (if available)
-order all wingmen to depart immediately
-no secondaries
Have anyone achieve that? , I see it impossible xD
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I don't see it as doable either..
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I'm barely scraping by with insane retail AI and only having the Subach, Morning Star, Tempest, Rockeye and EMP missile available...for some reason I couldn't use the Harpoon anymore after I failed Into the Maelstrom once.
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I'm barely scraping by with insane retail AI and only having the Subach, Morning Star, Tempest, Rockeye and EMP missile available...for some reason I couldn't use the Harpoon anymore after I failed Into the Maelstrom once.
Subach x Tempest I say. A golden combination throughout the campaign.
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Destiny, if weapons are magically unavailable, I bet you've corrupted your pilot file. Create a new pilot or play from the tech room.
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Destiny, if weapons are magically unavailable, I bet you've corrupted your pilot file. Create a new pilot or play from the tech room.
Or he just FREDded it just like this.
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Destiny, if weapons are magically unavailable, I bet you've corrupted your pilot file. Create a new pilot or play from the tech room.
It's a new retail campaign run, so nay! I've come so far to the nebula, restarting from scratch would really suck. If I complete the campaign on retail Insane with Subach-Tempest, I'll have an ego boost before deleting the pilot file if the corruption remains.
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I'm barely scraping by with insane retail AI and only having the Subach, Morning Star, Tempest, Rockeye and EMP missile available...for some reason I couldn't use the Harpoon anymore after I failed Into the Maelstrom once.
Subach x Tempest I say. A golden combination throughout the campaign.
Subach baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad :<
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I can never hit anything in an Ares, period. I hate that ship.
good now we finally have a complaint from DarthWank ("cough") I mean...DarthWang
As Unknown Target mentions below, flagrant insulting of other members is not strictly appreciated. However, as the party offended against is not showing any signs of taking it as a malicious action, I'm simply going to place a caution here. --Zacam
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Simply put you couldn't beat a Deimos anyway unless you had the proper weapons to actually take it down unlike a Cruiser.
no i mean disarm it at least
you cant cause its muts betur in antifigter roles then the aeolus if youre on ares with prom r's and no misiles and on insein
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I can never hit anything in an Ares, period. I hate that ship.
good now we finally have a complaint from DarthWank ("cough") I mean...DarthWang
Don't insult someone again in this thread.
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Insult me all you want!
All in fun and jest, but it's a mixed signal we don't need to be sending. We can all be polite and leave the *nudge nudge* jabs to IRC or PM's.
Especially don't try and incite someone to actions they are being warned against please. --Zacam
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Destiny, if weapons are magically unavailable, I bet you've corrupted your pilot file. Create a new pilot or play from the tech room.
It's a new retail campaign run, so nay! I've come so far to the nebula, restarting from scratch would really suck. If I complete the campaign on retail Insane with Subach-Tempest, I'll have an ego boost before deleting the pilot file if the corruption remains.
Now it really sounds like pilot corruption.
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Yeah... you wouldn't want to suddenly not be able to continue due to those kind of problems.
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Insult me all you want!
All in fun and jest, but it's a mixed signal we don't need to be sending. We can all be polite and leave the *nudge nudge* jabs to IRC or PM's.
Especially don't try and incite someone to actions they are being warned against please. --Zacam
Ah well if it was a joke, my apologies. I got a moderator report on the post, which is why I warned Marcov.
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Insult me all you want!
okay lets do a multiplayer how bout that
we'll insult each other by firing leisers and misails isnt that much more fun and better
if i get pwned again then well you still cant beat a deimos on a pegasus with prom r's and harpoons
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"Don't forget, you also have
missiles chat" :P
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I have never played multiplayer FS ever. I have no idea how to do it.
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!!! Everyone who wants to multi should know how to multi !!!
Click Here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=63609.0)
The most important part of that is registering a pilot on fs2.net. You don't need to do step #2 that's for hosting.
If you are still confused you can ask for help on the multi setup channel (https://wbe04.mibbit.com/?settings=b73fe961ed217d9a3cbd9637dc7ba9bf&server=irc.esper.net&channel=%23multi-setup&noServerTab=false)
Once you're setup, go on IRC (https://wbe04.mibbit.com/?settings=b73fe961ed217d9a3cbd9637dc7ba9bf&server=irc.esper.net&channel=%23hard-light&noServerTab=false) to ask if anyone is interested in playing a game. Don't go directly to the game itself, people usually don't hang around there. Weekends are best, but you can certainly try anytime.
Aah! I know there's more of you out there! You will all be educated!!!
Edit: Oh and I like the Loki... that's right... I said it.
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Edit: Oh and I like the Loki... that's right... I said it.
Bro, :yes:
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I have never played multiplayer FS ever. I have no idea how to do it.
It's like single but with less AI and more :3.
Follow the briefings, no fish, fire, emp etc etc...
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Fish?
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Piranha.
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I have never played multiplayer FS ever. I have no idea how to do it.
trust me im sort of a noob on fs multi i only played 2 games in my life
lets fight i think youre my equal
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I'll see if I can figure it out
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come on darthwang im waitin
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oh wait...i dont know how to forward ports
can someone else host a game then plz
fubar wake up man
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Does doing this let other people see my IP address?
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Doing what?
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Playing online
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Does doing this let other people see my IP address?
Darthwang outs himself as troll alt, film at 11.
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What? I've never done this before
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Apollos ftw!
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No, I doubt that your IP address can be seen. Also why does it matter?
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You're never anonymous online, your IP is pretty easy to find, whether you have ports blocked or not.
Even just posting on this forum shows your IP to the world.
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How? I don't see your IP.
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We has the powah.
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"you must follow
the instructions" if you wish to complete this registration;)
I use a 3G phone as a modem for internet, I hope this doesn't lag with FS2? Apparently has a "TCP" problem with another multi game I've tried to play, and lags a little on AoE 1.
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You'll find that FSO can be a little exigent in term of connection quality, but nothing really terrible. You'll have to lead your target a bit, lag becomes a problem after 150ms, and it hates packet loss.
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FS1: Athena. I hate bombing, so I just make Stiletto runs to whack all the turrets of a capship so my wingmen can vaporize it. When I'm done with that, the incredibly tightly-placed gunpoints filled with Avengers can dish out some hurt. I miss the Athena in FS2, there's nothing that really feels like a replacement to me.
FS2: Ares. Who needs to dogfight when you can lob Trebuchets at anything that looks at you funny? Plus it's one of the only ships that can really sustain useful amounts of Maxim/Kayser fire at high difficulties without weapons systems eating reactor energy.
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I guess the Ares is decent if that's your play style. It can realistically work quite well if the pilot only waddles around holding down space bar after harpoon aspect lock is acquired. That and treb lob for even more secondary pwnage.
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I Love the Valki!..
Was love in the First Arrive!
1 Banshee in the Nose of that ship, and 60 Hornets, ... Shivans GAME OVER ^^
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I Love the Valki!..
Was love in the First Arrive!
1 Banshee in the Nose of that ship, and 60 Hornets, ... Shivans GAME OVER ^^
Valk was definitely my second fav in FS1. She's just a bit too fragile for anything but pure interception, although thankfully, FS1 anti-strikecraft defenses really suck. Valks would be flying coffins around AA beams.
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1 Banshee in the Nose of that ship, and 60 Hornets, ... Shivans GAME OVER ^^
Ah, back in FS1, when hornets were actual missiles, instead of the sheer uselessness they are now.
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Were Hornets actually good in FS1? I just remembered them being utter trash in FSPort.
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They were basically Tornados which had yellow trails and didn't fly parallel to each other.
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Port isn't actually FS1 to the very core, I believe Interceptors in Port are better compared to Retail FS1, and it's probably not the only difference. I do think Hornets had more use in Retail nonetheless.
They were basically Tornados which had yellow trails and didn't fly parallel to each other.
No they were still lag-pursuit...right?
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Lester is talking about the FS2 version. The FS1 Hornet was lag-pursuit and had a blue trail.
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Lester is talking about the FS2 version. The FS1 Hornet was lag-pursuit and had a blue trail.
Eh?
Ah, back in FS1, when hornets were actual missiles, instead of the sheer uselessness they are now.
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had a blue trail.
wat
I distinctly recall them having a yellow (possibly slightly orangish) trail.
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The FS1 version had a blue trail. I am so positive like seriouslah.
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Pics or it didn't happen.
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From what I remember, Hornets were pretty damn useless in FS1, considering they could barely turn to pursue a target. The Port actually gives them and Interceptors a purpose, other than taking out something freighter-size or larger.
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In Port, Hornets are pretty good bomber killers. Aside from that, they're good for retail AI-controlled heavy fighters against freighters/cruisers.
I've yet to play FS1 retail, but from what I heard, aspect-seeking missiles where much less good than in FSPort.
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Pretty much. The Interceptor turned like an oil tanker, and Hornets weren't much better. The Harpoon and Tornado were massive improvements.
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In Port, Hornets are pretty good bomber killers. Aside from that, they're good for retail AI-controlled heavy fighters against freighters/cruisers.
I've yet to play FS1 retail, but from what I heard, aspect-seeking missiles where much less good than in FSPort.
They were. The Interceptor was definitely sub-par, and the Phoenix V was all but useless. It couldn't hit anything faster than a transport, but in that case, Hornets did more DPS. And unlike the Trebuchet, the Phoenix V didn't have the range advantage to justify its bomb-like maneuverability.
I loved FS1 because it was the first space sim I ever played, and it introduced me to a great genre, but when you look at the difference in secondary functionality between retail FS1 and even retail FS2, secondaries in retail FS1 really kind of sucked. The only one I remember using and abusing was surprisingly the Synaptic, since I flew Athenas so often. I don't know how or why, but the submunitions always netted me a bunch of kills.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuVi5BHurhY
QD says PV useless = NO!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuVi5BHurhY
QD says PV useless = NO!
Don't they behave a little more like Trebuchets in the port? I remember them being fairly awful in retail FS1.
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Not really.
Watch the vid, their behaviour is kinda moot :P
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Not really.
Watch the vid, their behaviour is kinda moot :P
Yeah, I see what you mean - pretty much any missile would hit in those scenarios, so using the one with the biggest boom is good. But the general usefulness of aspect-seekers in retail FS1 was still pretty woeful, at least compared to what we have now. Maybe it's just that I'm spoiled because Harpoons, Tornados, and Trebuchets all improved so much over their predecessors that the comparison is hardly fair. Secondaries in FS2 definitely improved more than the primaries or ship tech did...except for Synaptics. Synaptic 2: Electric Boogaloo was disappointing.
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Aspect seekers = pointless in both versions of FS.
There is only tempests, occasionally rockeyes, and a boatload of primaries (unless you're bombing or doing some strategic/tactical **** where trebs are ok).
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Aspect seekers = pointless in both versions of FS.
There is only tempests, occasionally rockeyes, and a boatload of primaries (unless you're bombing or doing some strategic/tactical **** where trebs are ok).
I like to do surgical strike kinda stuff, hence the Athena preference in FS1 that I mentioned earlier. Trebs are ridiculously good. But Tornados aren't too bad, and Harpoons usually hit their target...not saying they're good, mind you. Some of us don't have godlike piloting skills. :p
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I like to use aspect-seekers in situations when I can't afford to spend too much time hunting every single target. For example, against a botload of Dragons when I'm far enough from them (before they close in to knife range, or when they're engaged with wingmates). Or in Multi against AIs, when lag makes killing a single Mara with primaries/tempest last half an hour.
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I like to use aspect-seekers in situations when I can't afford to spend too much time hunting every single target. For example, against a botload of Dragons when I'm far enough from them (before they close in to knife range, or when they're engaged with wingmates). Or in Multi against AIs, when lag makes killing a single Mara with primaries/tempest last half an hour.
Yeah, if I'm in something with a good missile capacity, I'll usually chew the rear quadrant up with primaries, fire some Tornadoes, and let them ram themselves up the tailpipe of the fighter I was chasing off, especially since I usually fly ships that have more missiles than maneuverability. You really don't want to be trying to primary everything in an Ares. :p
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How come those dragons die so fast??
You make them seem as useless as basilisks.
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How come those dragons die so fast??
You make them seem as useless as basilisks.
Dual fired Phoenix Vs. They do hurt quite a lot. It's just the question of getting Dragons to sit still long enough.
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Aspect seekers = pointless in both versions of FS.
There is only tempests, occasionally rockeyes, and a boatload of primaries (unless you're bombing or doing some strategic/tactical **** where trebs are ok).
I like to do surgical strike kinda stuff, hence the Athena preference in FS1 that I mentioned earlier. Trebs are ridiculously good. But Tornados aren't too bad, and Harpoons usually hit their target...not saying they're good, mind you. Some of us don't have godlike piloting skills. :p
Yeah, my fine aim is crap, so Harpoons are usually way more useful than Tempests for me. :p
And I love the Phoenix V trick in that mission. It's almost the only way of getting rid of the Dragons quickly enough to be able to protect all of the escape pods from the Basilisks that soon jump in.
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The thing with Trebs is that while they're pretty okay at long distance, providing your target is an AI target, they're absolute crap in close quarters. Harpoons don't turn nearly fast enough in FS2 to actually track a target well, Harpoons are actually better than Hornets and Tornadoes for anti-fighter duty.
Tempest is still the best, though.
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The thing with Trebs is that while they're pretty okay at long distance, providing your target is an AI target, they're absolute crap in close quarters. Harpoons don't turn nearly fast enough in FS2 to actually track a target well, Harpoons are actually better than Hornets and Tornadoes for anti-fighter duty.
Tempest is still the best, though.
Yeah, if you're in a fighter that can get up close and personal, nothing will quickly and completely melt other strikecraft quite like Tempests. I rarely have the luxury of being that close in an Ares, though. Trebs are absolutely evil in head-on passes since the high rate of closure makes it more difficult to dodge them. If you're trailing an enemy, Harpoons will almost always catch them. I sort of feel like they lack stopping power, but I'm used to a lot of firepower projection in the heavy/strategic assault role. I can only imagine how awesome it would have been had Interceptors not sucked in FS1. The Valk would have been great with a good aspect seeker. Banshee off the shields (yeah, I just verb'ed Banshee), fire and forget. :yes: Alas, I was far too busy shamelessly abusing Synaptics and tight Avenger firing points in the Athena between making Stiletto runs at turrets. I miss the Athena every time I play FS2.
Edited for sleepy spelling error.
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The Valkyrie is awesome with Furies. Even if it is just one bank 120 managed shots can slaughter ships.
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Yeah, if you're in a fighter that can get up close and personal, nothing will quickly and completely melt other strikecraft quite like Tempests. I rarely have the luxury of being that close in an Ares, though. Trebs are absolutely evil in head-on passes since the high rate of closure makes it more difficult to dodge them. If you're trailing an enemy, Harpoons will almost always catch them. I sort of feel like they lack stopping power, but I'm used to a lot of firepower projection in the heavy/strategic assault role. I can only imagine how awesome it would have been had Interceptors not sucked in FS1. The Valk would have been great with a good aspect seeker. Banshee off the shields (yeah, I just verb'ed Banshee), fire and forget. :yes: Alas, I was far too busy shamelessly abusing Synaptics and tight Avenger firing points in the Athena between making Stiletto runs at turrets. I miss the Athena every time I play FS2.
Edited for sleepy spelling error.
There's your problem. Heavy fighters such as the Ares are poorly suited for dogfighting, but instead are better for attacking convoys, cruisers, and harassment of larger vessels. Also, interceptors in FreeSpace 1 were good, they actually did what they were advertised, interception. The ones in FreeSpace 2 are incorrectly labeled, the Perseus being more like an Apollo MK II and more of a space superiority fighter than the Myrm ever was, and the Serapis being more like an Anubis MK II, which was also a space superiority fighter.
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Yeah, if you're in a fighter that can get up close and personal, nothing will quickly and completely melt other strikecraft quite like Tempests. I rarely have the luxury of being that close in an Ares, though. Trebs are absolutely evil in head-on passes since the high rate of closure makes it more difficult to dodge them. If you're trailing an enemy, Harpoons will almost always catch them. I sort of feel like they lack stopping power, but I'm used to a lot of firepower projection in the heavy/strategic assault role. I can only imagine how awesome it would have been had Interceptors not sucked in FS1. The Valk would have been great with a good aspect seeker. Banshee off the shields (yeah, I just verb'ed Banshee), fire and forget. :yes: Alas, I was far too busy shamelessly abusing Synaptics and tight Avenger firing points in the Athena between making Stiletto runs at turrets. I miss the Athena every time I play FS2.
Edited for sleepy spelling error.
There's your problem. Heavy fighters such as the Ares are poorly suited for dogfighting, but instead are better for attacking convoys, cruisers, and harassment of larger vessels. Also, interceptors in FreeSpace 1 were good, they actually did what they were advertised, interception. The ones in FreeSpace 2 are incorrectly labeled, the Perseus being more like an Apollo MK II and more of a space superiority fighter than the Myrm ever was, and the Serapis being more like an Anubis MK II, which was also a space superiority fighter.
Yeah, I know the Ares/Erinyes aren't really meant to dogfight in, hence why I mentioned that I find aspect-seeking secondaries useful after QD said he doesn't like them much. I just like the middle of the road role where I can be useful against any sized target, hence the heavy assault/surgical strike platforms.
The Ares handles worse than a wheelbarrow with a flat tire, but a couple of well-placed Kayser blasts to the face and a Harpoon or two up the tailpipe is enough to discourage the special attention I get from fighters.
You're right about the lack of a true interceptor in FS2, though. The Valk would probably get carved up by AA beams, though - the Serapis sure does. If it had been my game to make, I would have had a dedicated interceptor with some sort of extra perk for being saddled with paper armor and low missile capacity - like a reduced chance of being by AA beams, being a small and quick target and all that.
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Isn't the Erinyes a better dogfighter than the Ares?
I flied the Ares in the last mission and was the only fighter I survived in without being blasted to hell by Shivans (though I died with the supernova).
So tho the Ares isn't a good dogfighter you still have a massive shielding hp; once the shields are out and your hull is hit, things aren't going to end well. Though you'll probably be hammered by Dragons, you'll survive long enough to beat the crap out of them with just a few direct hit Kayser shots.
But the Ares can sustain a very decent amount of firepower thus is able to maintain the good standing of the hull integrity.
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Isn't the Erinyes a better dogfighter than the Ares?
I flied the Ares in the last mission and was the only fighter I survived in without being blasted to hell by Shivans (though I died with the supernova).
So tho the Ares isn't a good dogfighter you still have a massive shielding hp; once the shields are out and your hull is hit, things aren't going to end well. Though you'll probably be hammered by Dragons, you'll survive long enough to beat the crap out of them with just a few direct hit Kayser shots.
But the Ares can sustain a very decent amount of firepower thus is able to maintain the good standing of the hull integrity.
The Erinyes has better maneuverability and it's faster. Slightly. And the 2 extra gunpoints of the Erinyes may look good on paper. But the Ares can sustain fire of energy-eating primaries like the Maxim/Kayser for longer periods thanks to the highest energy recharge rate of any craft (except the Terran Mara), plus it's much more durable and has almost twice the missile capacity. I just can't like the Erinyes, no matter how hard I try. Between the Herc II and the Ares, it's an unnecessary middle ground to me.
But, people who are exceptionally accurate with primaries can unleash hell in an Erinyes. I'm just not that good. :p
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The Eri turns as fast as the herc mk2 and will trounce Ares/mk2s in fights with ease.
The Ares, and stuff like it, that's too heavy, is only good against crappy AI on crappy difficulties. Let alone vs people..
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The Eri turns as fast as the herc mk2 and will trounce Ares/mk2s in fights with ease.
The Ares, and stuff like it, that's too heavy, is only good against crappy AI on crappy difficulties. Let alone vs people..
It does have its uses as anti-convoy, anti-cruiser, and capital-ship harassment, but dogfighting is just not for it, since it's more of a fighter/bomber than a fighter.
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It makes a good trebuchet platform, as proven in WiH, and has enough energy to feed Maxim for longer than most. That's about it.
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The Eri turns as fast as the herc mk2 and will trounce Ares/mk2s in fights with ease.
The Ares, and stuff like it, that's too heavy, is only good against crappy AI on crappy difficulties. Let alone vs people..
Uh...I think you're a bit underestimating the Ares here. Although it has crappy flexibility the super armor nearly makes up for it plus a tremendous load of firepower. Though indeed it may very well lose to people, I think a skilled enough player can win even on Hard vs. Dragons with the Ares.
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The Eri turns as fast as the herc mk2 and will trounce Ares/mk2s in fights with ease.
The Ares, and stuff like it, that's too heavy, is only good against crappy AI on crappy difficulties. Let alone vs people..
Uh...I think you're a bit underestimating the Ares here. Although it has crappy flexibility the super armor nearly makes up for it plus a tremendous load of firepower. Though indeed it may very well lose to people, I think a skilled enough player can win even on Hard vs. Dragons with the Ares.
Yeah, I love the Ares (disclaimer: I don't do multiplayer, as I'm a bit of a misanthrope :p ). Sure, it's a brick, but it plays its role well. You just have to make sure you have the right secondary weapons for what you'll be up against and make sure you're incredibly precise with your primaries, since you won't get too many chances at having enemies in your crosshairs. If things leave you alone for a few seconds, you can cause a lot of havoc. In the last few retail missions, it was a lifesaver. Sit in the middle of the engagement area, shunt all engine power to shields, and splatter everything with Trebs. Since you're standing still, anything that wants to attack you is gonna be coming straight at you - situational awareness and some well-placed Kaysers will drive off attackers, and as they run you can ram some Harpoons or Tornadoes into them as they flee.
It's not quite as exciting as flying a Perseus, zipping around the battlefield and dogfighting, but it works well enough. Plus, it seems the AI wingmen do well in Ares; you can load them up with Tornados and they'll lay the smackdown on anything dumb enough to come within range.
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The Eri turns as fast as the herc mk2 and will trounce Ares/mk2s in fights with ease.
The Ares, and stuff like it, that's too heavy, is only good against crappy AI on crappy difficulties. Let alone vs people..
Uh...I think you're a bit underestimating the Ares here. Although it has crappy flexibility the super armor nearly makes up for it plus a tremendous load of firepower. Though indeed it may very well lose to people, I think a skilled enough player can win even on Hard vs. Dragons with the Ares.
No, he's not underestimating the Ares. QuantumDelta has played this game for far longer than either of us, so he knows what he is talking about. Winning against a Dragon on hard with retail AI isn't much of an accomplishment, either. I can do that with an Ursa on retail insane, by hitting them with Helios bombs.
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No, he's not underestimating the Ares. QuantumDelta has played this game for far longer than either of us, so he knows what he is talking about. Winning against a Dragon on hard with retail AI isn't much of an accomplishment, either. I can do that with an Ursa on retail insane, by hitting them with Helios bombs.
Helios doesn't do sufficient shield damage, try again.
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The increased lethality of FS2 player-primaries and secondaries make it a lot harder to have "one fighter to rule them all", I think, especially on harder difficulty levels.
The Herc in FS1 could generally muddle through just about anything, IMO, due to the lower damage and energy usage of primaries and FS1 missiles(just dump more gun energy into shields; not like you're really spending it, unless you're running D. Advs or Banshees). Nowadays, a couple of salvos of Prom-S or Kayser will all but deplete the toughest of fighter shield quadrants, and on the flip side, they consume 3-4x as much energy per shot, making it harder for heavier craft to simply lean on their shield/energy durability in the middle of a multi-ship furball. Shivan guns are still weak enough to make heavier fighters feel tough, but the perception falls apart once you start fighting against other T/V fighters("...But Hate the Traitor" and much of the NTF arc, for example; imagine the NTF fighters actually had Prom-Ses instead of the FS1-esqe output Subachs and Prom-Rs).
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......Eh?
Although it's quite possible I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure the Prom and Prom S are pretty close, as is their effect on shields and hull, and Banshee = Kayser.
Perhaps you played FS1 on easier difficulties?
You're quite right though, heavy fighters are ****, and useless in actual combat, they're support/command and control craft, they don't do space superiority.
Athena(Bomber), Ares, etc, are for de-turreting/killing off subsystems/killing things from long-ass-ranged.
Space superiority is left to the lights, the Eri, Tauret and Herc mk2 are about the only ones that bridge the gap.
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Although it's quite possible I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure the Prom and Prom S are pretty close, as is their effect on shields and hull, and Banshee = Kayser.
The original Prom is actually superior to the Prom S in a number of ways, but the Kayser beats the crap out of the Banshee on its improved rate of fire and faster moving shots.
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The original Prom is actually superior to the Prom S in a number of ways
:wtf:
Range: 900 m
Rate of Fire: 3.33 shots per second
Velocity: 450 ms
Base Damage: 20
Armor Damage: Full+ 26
Shield Damage: Average 14
Subsystem Damage: Poor 7
Energy Usage: 0.40
Range: 1500 m
Rate of Fire: 2.86 shots per second
Velocity: 750 ms
Base Damage: 30
Armor Damage: Very Good 27
Shield Damage: Full 30
Subsystem Damage: Poor 10.5
Energy Usage: 1.00
Original Prometheus has a higher Rate of Fire but is slower, shorter ranged, and less damaging in every damage type.
Well you're right since being better in one thing is a number.
Edit: Pfft silly me I forgot the Wiki lists the base damage for the FS1 Prometheus wrong.
But in seriousness its one actual advantage is the lower energy use per shot, which I had forgot about.
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The original Prom is actually superior to the Prom S in a number of ways
:wtf:
Range: 900 m
Rate of Fire: 3.33 shots per second
Velocity: 450 ms
Base Damage: 26
Armor Damage: Full 26
Shield Damage: Average 14
Subsystem Damage: Poor 7
Range: 1500 m
Rate of Fire: 2.86 shots per second
Velocity: 750 ms
Base Damage: 30
Armor Damage: Very Good 27
Shield Damage: Full 30
Subsystem Damage: Poor 10.5
Original Prometheus has a higher Rate of Fire but is slower, shorter ranged, and less damaging in every damage type.
Well you're right since being better in one thing is a number.
Just want to add: Prometheus S projectiles are looking cooler. And I love the sound from the S more....
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Original Prometheus has a higher Rate of Fire but is slower, shorter ranged, and less damaging in every damage type.
Well you're right since being better in one thing is a number.
Edit: Pfft silly me I forgot the Wiki lists the base damage for the FS1 Prometheus wrong.
But in seriousness its one actual advantage is the lower energy use per shot, which I had forgot about.
Ah, child, but that one RoF difference outmodes the damage difference. Same for energy usage. A totality of sums, not a bunch meaningless numbers scattered about.
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The difference is minute, doesn't help that it does just less than half the shield damage the Prometheus S does per shot,
Start throwing calculations into the mix. Fire each weapon for a full minute and get the presumed totals.
199.8 shots with the Prometheus for 60 seconds:
5,194.8 hull damage
2,797.2 shield damage
1,398.6 subsystem damage
171.6 shots with the Prometheus S for 60 seconds:
4,633.2 hull damage
5,148 shield damage
1,201.2 subsystem damage
Just...wow. The difference compared to hull and subsystem damage is immense despite the slower Rate of Fire, and in this game shields have higher ratings than hull, and since you need those to go away so you can actually damage the hull....The Prometheus S, regardless of its lower Rate of Fire is going to be taking hull points off of a target long before the original Prometheus does.
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The Prom-S is also supremely accurate, thanks to the 100ms extra velocity over the Kayser/Banshee(650), where the Prom was only Subach-speed at 450. Not only do you have 1.5k range, the shots move fast enough for it to be potentially useful(lolCirce). I'd also point out that per energy/shot, the Prom-S is slightly more efficient than the Maxim at hull damage(same 1.0 energy, 1 point more hull damage), so as long as you're not in a hurry, the Prom-S is also a quite usable anti-cruiser cannon that still outranges almost all turrets except Terran Huge, Long Range Flak, and AA beams.
and Banshee = Kayser.
Despite the Techroom fluff, Banshee's hull damage(26 x .7 = 18.2) is poor/average for the energy and low RoF, where the Kayser is more of a true super-gun(full 28 hull damage, only slightly less vs shields, and much faster-firing), second only to the Maxim(kind of the Mekhu to the Prom-S's Subach). Not a big deal against Shivan and Vasudan hulls(at least not bombers), and lighter Terran fare like Valkyries, but for FS1-era(FSPort), I virtually always go with the Avenger(or Prom+Leech on rare occasions). Avenger has slightly better Shield DPS than the Prom, and 75ms faster shot velocity.
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...I virtually always go with the Avenger(or Prom+Leech on rare occasions). Avenger has slightly better Shield DPS than the Prom, and 75ms faster shot velocity.
On my last (admittedly non-pro, moderate-difficulty) playthrough of FSPort and its progeny, I actually found that Avenger+Banshee was actually a pretty winning combo. The Avenger basically never needs to stop firing, even if I burn all my gun energy with the Banshee, and the setup can bulldoze through shields in pretty quick order.
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True, though a Banshee's hull damage per shot is about the same an Avenger shot; I'd tend call it a wash. Bites through the shields a little faster, but loses some DPS against the hull(and shield DPS really dropping off if you ever miss with the rather slow-firing Banshee).
I only like the Leech+Prom(for matching shot speeds) for the fact that I do see some noticeable reduction of ABing from Valks and Ulys(ST:R's Exodus mission), which can make them a little easier to pin down and kill(at least for a Herc) compared to just going for straight damage.
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Aww not this **** again.....
Guys, burst damage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "DPS"
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I mostly agree, but the fact is that Banshees, especially linked Banshees, are painfully slow firing(worse than the Prom-S), so unless you're a extremely consistent shot, you may well be shooting yourself in the foot and giving the enemy time to recharge/rebalance shields between hits. It just doesn't feel "worth it", especially considering the lack of damage against hulls.
The Avenger is just better balanced overall(along with the speed-accuracy bonus over the Prom), and the fact that it has no real drain on your gun energy doesn't hurt, either.
EDIT: And honestly, FS1 primaries really were more rapid-fire, damage-over-time guns as a whole, rather than the heavier damage per-shot guns that the Prom-S and Kayser arguably are(which goes right back to my first post, and how the game style has arguably changed from FS1 to 2, and thus fighter capabilities relative to the game).
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Perhaps this Prom vs. PromS, Banshee vs. Kayser discussion should be moved to another thread. This is supposed to be a discussion about fighters and not the weapons they carry.
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Perhaps this Prom vs. PromS, Banshee vs. Kayser discussion should be moved to another thread. This is supposed to be a discussion about fighters and not the weapons they carry.
Compatible weapons are a crucial part of fighter preference. The fact that it's in two different games hardly matters, since both are canon and therefore pertinent to the discussion.
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Aww not this **** again.....
Guys, burst damage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "DPS"
From a pure perspective, yes, but some of us aren't such good shots or just don't have optimal hardware for pinpoint accuracy. For that type of work, spray-and-pray is the unfortunate fallback. An Erinyes loaded up with Kaysers is going to decimate anything unfortunate enough to fly in front of it, but the Erinyes had better be able to place those shots very precisely or he's gonna find himself with an empty energy pool and a big target profile.
I don't consider myself either terrible or very good at the game, and I know that having high-damage primaries is better...but eh, sometimes I just feel like slapping on some Avengers/Subachs and jamming down the trigger, sort of like a bad Pyro in Team Fortress 2.
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Haha in a no-secondaries, no-evasion, full Kayser loadout joust between an Erinyes and an Ares, the Ares will win hands down. The direction of the target matters a lot, redalbatross. And what the target is doing...and the type of ship. There are simply too many factors to simply say anything that is in front of X ship will die.
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DPS is also more important if you're taking on big ships, which is what stuff like the Ares is all about.
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DPS is also more important if you're taking on big ships, which is what stuff like the Ares is all about.
Agreed- for big targets. In a dogfight, even a steady hand is going to miss quite a bit. I believe the point that QD was making was along those lines, that when you DO score a hit on your target, you want your target to feel maximum "ouch" factor. Thus, the importance of burst fire.
Anyhow, to get this sorta back on topic before somebody gets upset, I've always gravitated towards heavier fighters. However, I recognize their flaws, and I'll freely admit that my playing on Medium dramatically helps my fighter's ability to tank. Indeed, tanking- the reason I love assault fighters and bombers. I just enjoy being able to fly some obnoxious bulldozer of a ship into a dogfight and just demolish everybody with gratuitous firepower. Case in point- I've beaten the old-school Shivan Gauntlet in an Ursa. In relatively casual play, I vote you can't go wrong with a fatty.
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Oh, FWIW, I like the Ares on principle, and still feel it's a solid choice for much of your run with the Black Lions.
I'll go with the Erinyes; dual Prom-S, one bank of Trebs intended for AA beam/subsystem popping, one for Tempests(as if 240/217 damage per salvo wasn't enough :P). AB recharge/cap is strong enough that it doesn't feel too lacking(for a heavy fighter) if/when you need to add a 'tick' to Gun ETS settings.
The Pegasus and Loki have speed and style(if the Loki had better-placed secondary banks for Tempests, I'd prefer it over the Perseus completely).
I want to love the Ursa, for the Maxim-capable triple-gun second bank, but in FS2 overall, like the Medusa for a balance of durability and ability to actually move, plus tighter gunpoints than the Artemis(and the turret, with a little creativity, can be used to actually help fend off a Manticore or two, though it's better in FSPort where it's not saddled with a Prom-R).
EDIT: Honorable Mention for the Ulysses. FS2's more energy-hungry primaries and its low gun power reserve make energy a lot more of a concern(though manageable), and it really needs to stay away from AA beams and mid-airspace collisions, but it's still the vicious dogfighter it was in FS1.
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FS1: Valkyrie :) With 200 shields, the thing's a death trap, but I love flying it more than any other GTA ship. Primaries are well positioned for a Banshee/Avenger combo, the missile bank isn't great, but 120 furies is better than the Ulysses' 80 (unfortunately you are forced to choose between them and the Phoenix V, which with the Horus you aren't, but that's not that big an issue in FS1, where you can just close that additional kilometer and kill the damn thing manually). It's true successor is what I miss the most from the FS2-era arsenal; objectively the Perseus is great, but I could never love it as much.
The Athena is a work of art... and art galleries are exactly where it belongs :sigh: Attacking Shivan fighters with the Avenger is a joke. There are situations where I might find flying an Athena preferable to taking a Herc, but in the retail campaign, there are none.
As for the Hercules, the only thing better than shooting those fat bastards down is flying them :D although I think you have to be a Great War veteran to actually believe that :lol:
FS2: Have I mentioned I want a Valkyrie mk II? It could hardly be worse than the Hercules mk II... :D
Well, it's hard not to love the sheer firepower of the Erinyes :) And it's also a surprisingly versatile ship, quite apart in its dogfighting capabilities from the other heavier fighters. I also like the Ares, as a true successor to the old Hercules.
But for the situations where the Erinyes is too sluggish, the best choice is of course the Perseus.
Vasudans: In FS1, all their fighters would be very, very good if you could actually hit things with them :doubt: Well, not the Anubis, of course... the only way to make that thing at least decent is to mount the Lucifer's Shivan Super Laser on it :lol: The Seth is the least desperate in that regard, and it also has perfectly placed secondary banks, especially when compared to the Horus's. It's actually an excellent ship for it's class, capable of engaging fighters in a quite less embarrassing manner then the Herc is.
Unfortunately, by the time of FS2, the Vasudan old arsenal doesn't stand a chance in comparison any more, and the newest additions are unimpressive. The Serapis is very lovely, but lovely isn't exactly what you want when bad, ugly things start shooting at you. But at least it can shoot and hit (!) back, which for the Vasudans is a vast improvement.
On the other hand, the Bakha and the Sekhmet are better then all the Terran bombers put together, which is strange, since it's quite different from the situation in FS1.
& an honorable mention: the best space superiority fighter in both the FS1 and the FS2 - SF Dragon :D If you try flying it (armed with the GT(V)A weapons) you'll have absolutely *nothing* to complain about. Until you spend your 40 furies/80 tempests, or something touches your flimsy hull and knocks out a subsystem or two... :)
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I ;) can :cool: say :nod: that that reply ;7 has :) quite :pimp: alot of :eek: smilies :lol:!
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Old habits die hard.
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Actually the fighters i dont like are:
* Horus = Primary banks too separated of each other.
* Erinyes = it its good, but nah i die i lot in it.
I having the same issue with the primary banks been too separated of each other in the Uly, it at least the Uly is a better fighter.
The GTB Athena was a good bomber for fighter usage too, give me an Athena with Prom S, Tempest, Treb and Tornados...
Even with a Avenger the Athena kick ass because of the EXCELLENT primary weapon position... its way easy to hit the target, and when you hit it, all 4 weapons hit him, always. No other ship can do that.
Also with all those trebs, its just the perfect ship for SEAD missions.
But they reemplaced it with the completely useless Zeus... i prefer to fly the Osiris instead.
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Actually the fighters i dont like are:
* Horus = Primary banks too separated of each other.
* Erinyes = it its good, but nah i die i lot in it.
I having the same issue with the primary banks been too separated of each other in the Uly, it at least the Uly is a better fighter.
The GTB Athena was a good bomber for fighter usage too, give me an Athena with Prom S, Tempest, Treb and Tornados...
Even with a Avenger the Athena kick ass because of the EXCELLENT primary weapon position... its way easy to hit the target, and when you hit it, all 4 weapons hit him, always. No other ship can do that.
Also with all those trebs, its just the perfect ship for SEAD missions.
But they reemplaced it with the completely useless Zeus... i prefer to fly the Osiris instead.
But they reemplaced it with the completely useless Zeus... i prefer to fly the Osiris instead.
i prefer to fly the Osiris instead.
the Osiris
completely useless
>implying one can actually fly the Osiris
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4FuI6bl2G83M_1DWC-izxPv-t4p-NKiirtXe-p0h5O0kxraufag&t=1)
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Actually the fighters i dont like are:
* Horus = Primary banks too separated of each other.
* Erinyes = it its good, but nah i die i lot in it.
I having the same issue with the primary banks been too separated of each other in the Uly, it at least the Uly is a better fighter.
The GTB Athena was a good bomber for fighter usage too, give me an Athena with Prom S, Tempest, Treb and Tornados...
Even with a Avenger the Athena kick ass because of the EXCELLENT primary weapon position... its way easy to hit the target, and when you hit it, all 4 weapons hit him, always. No other ship can do that.
Also with all those trebs, its just the perfect ship for SEAD missions.
But they reemplaced it with the completely useless Zeus... i prefer to fly the Osiris instead.
But they reemplaced it with the completely useless Zeus... i prefer to fly the Osiris instead.
i prefer to fly the Osiris instead.
the Osiris
completely useless
>implying one can actually fly the Osiris
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4FuI6bl2G83M_1DWC-izxPv-t4p-NKiirtXe-p0h5O0kxraufag&t=1)
:lol: :yes:
FLY THE SEKHMET AND DESPAIR!!!
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The FS1 Osiris was not THAT bad... the FS2 one is... well lets say a punishment, instead of killing you for treason, they put in a Osiris and send you to the frontlines.
Anyway i actually used the Osiris several times on the PXO era... just for fun :P
But the Zeus is like sitting on an oversized Perseus with engines disabled. Give my Athena back! lol
BTW, i remember i was thinking about making a multi mission that was about a Vasudan reserve bomber unit, so the players could only use the Osiris.
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But the Zeus is like sitting on an oversized Perseus with engines disabled. Give my Athena back! lol
x_X You people are messed up :<