Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Tools => Topic started by: Styxx on August 17, 2004, 09:46:38 pm
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Ok, this is the first public beta version. It's basically an export plugin for 3D Studio MAX r5 - it won't work on other versions as of now, but I'm working on recompiling it for MAX 4 and 6. It'll convert the model, and if you add the proper helpers and adjust the names, it can generate most of the extra POF data. Right now it's able to generate:
- Detail Levels
- Debris
- Gun/Missile Turrets
- Gun/Missile Banks
- Shields
- Insignia
- Paths
- Docking Points
- Engines
- Subsystems
- Glow Points
It'll also preserve the model hierarchy from MAX on the POF subobject hierarchy. It's still somewhat buggy, hence the beta status, but it worked with all well-formed models I tried. Some notes:
- Don't try to convert objects without UVW data (except for the shields)
- All mesh materials must have a bitmap type texture on the Diffuse slot
- The shield object shouldn't have a material (found problems with that once or twice, do this just to make sure)
The readme.txt file included with the ZIP contains instructions on how to set up your MAX scene, and a sample scene with a very simple model. I just ask that, if you try it and find a problem, report it so I can get it fixed. Alongside the POF file the exporter will generate a few log files ("pofexp.log","pofexp_debug.log" and "pofexp_mesh.log"), if you could send me these files when you report a bug it would be helpful. Also, if you can tell me specifically what went wrong, I could get it fixed a lot faster.
Anyway, here's the file - it contains the plugin for MAX 4, 5 and 6, a readme, and a sample file (with a texture):
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp.zip
More functionality will be added soon, including support for subsystems and SCP specific POF data.
EDIT: Yes, that file is the last version, I'll keep it updated here on the first post. :)
[color=66ff00]For all of you wondering if you'll be able to use this plugin with Gmax I have a bit of disappointing news: It seems that Discreet charges $1200 a year for use of the Gmax SDK and it would seem that the plugins are written in a different way to stop game devs. from using a max SDK to write Gmax plugins.
The only cross platform plugins are those that are written in plain text that max and Gmax's 'console' use. Now you know why Gmax doesn't have as big a following as it could have. :blah:
//Maeglamor
[/color]
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Styxx, you might not need to release MT to get ahold of that god status. I'll put it through its paces ASAP.
EDIT: I can't get it to load, probably doing something wrong though. Are there any files that I need?
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what is wrong with you people!?!
why is there only one responce to this!?!
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Hi :)
When will the version for Max 6 be released ? I only have Max6.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
what is wrong with you people!?!
why is there only one responce to this!?!
Cause it was posted at 3 in the morning for us Brits. :D
Anyway I have MAX 6 so this is not much use for me at the moment. As soon as the 6 version comes out I'll be doing some testing :)
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Max 4, natch (but I've mentioned this). Once/if you have the v4 version compiled, I'll give it a shot.
Nice work nonetheless.
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Max 3, or I'd be all over this.
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as you complete it, it could be a good excuse to finally start learning max:)
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how many versions of MAX are you planning to make this pof exporter for? Coz ive got MAX 2.5
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The only one I can say for certain is MAX 6, probably for MAX 4. MAX 2.5, unfortunately, is out of the question, as the plugin API changed on version 3 and I would have to rework a large portion of the code. Besides, I don't have access to the SDKs.
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I've got MAX 6, and GMAX (the rough equivalence of 5)... I'll give it a shot in G, but definately looking forward to using it in MAX6...
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Here's the version compiled with the MAX6 SDK. I don't actually have MAX6, so I can't say if it'll work or not, but you're welcome to try it out. I didn't get any problems during compilation, but who knows.
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp-max6.zip
Now, if anyone could point me to where I can download the MAX4 SDK (that is, if it's actually available for download for free), I'd gladly compile a version for it.
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(http://swooh.com/peon/hippo/errordll.jpg)
I dropped it in the /plugins folder, and got this on startup...
EDIT: This is the MAX6 version, but i get the same thing if i used the 5 version...
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Dude, been waiting for this a long time. Awesome work. :)
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Originally posted by Setekh
Dude, been waiting for this a long time. Awesome work. :)
Well, let's wait until it actually works on someone else's computer. ;)
And Hippo: that's on MAX 6? I just recompiled it with the r6 SDK, there's no way I can test it or try to replicate the error. Sorry. Maybe it's related to the problems people with version 5 had when trying to load it, I'll recompile it for version 6 when that problem is fixed.
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Originally posted by Styxx
Well, let's wait until it actually works on someone else's computer. ;)
And Hippo: that's on MAX 6? I just recompiled it with the r6 SDK, there's no way I can test it or try to replicate the error. Sorry. Maybe it's related to the problems people with version 5 had when trying to load it, I'll recompile it for version 6 when that problem is fixed.
Yep, thats 6... I havent updated from 6.0 to anything though, other then having Mental Ray installed in it... That shouldn't be relating to it though...
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I just tried it on 3dsmax 6 (with service pack installed) and I get the same error.
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Here's a version compiled for MAX r5.1 - it works fine on my MAX 5.0, but if you have problems with the r5 version, try this one out.
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp-max5.1.zip
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I got the same error once before, when i tried to use a plugin that was made for max5... the ones that dont work seem to be any i use with a .dle extension... All the ones that work have a .dlo extension... Though, those could be system files...
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And here's one compiled with the MAX 4.2 SDK - it also works on my version... So far, the only one I wasn't able to load was the MAX 6 version.
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp-max4.2.zip
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::Frantically searches for 3dsmax 4 or 5 discs::
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Okay, this version worked for Woomesiter on MAX 4.2, and on my MAX 5.0. It should work on later versions too, but let me know if it doesn't, I think I figured out the problem:
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp-max4.2.zip
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Okay, that last version didn't work on MAX 6, so here's an r6 specific version:
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp-max6.zip
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Knowing it wouldn't work, I tried that last 4.2 build on 3dsmax 6. The error message now is just for incompatibility and not about unfound modules.
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BINGO!!!!..... YAHTZEE!!!!
Time for some tests!!!!
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we have a winner
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:eek: :yes:
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First conversion results......
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Gpofmax.JPG)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Gpofmax2.JPG)
Modelview reveals funky shading anomolies.
Testing in game textures momentarily.......
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Originally posted by Styxx
Okay, this version worked for Woomesiter on MAX 4.2, and on my MAX 5.0. It should work on later versions too, but let me know if it doesn't, I think I figured out the problem:
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp-max4.2.zip
I'll give this a shot when I've finished reubilding me Pc (new case).
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Updated versions, fixed a bug on the texture coordinate generation - it's generating proper coordinates now:
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp-max4.2.zip
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp-max5.zip
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp-max6.zip
And Omniscaper - that looks like a problem with the vertex normals... I'm looking into it, but my debug logs show proper normals, I think there's something wrong on my POF writing code. Couldn't find the problem yet, but I hope to get it fixed soon.
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Ugh when I restart 3dsmax I get this error
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/error.JPG)
I have to manually initiallize it in the plugin-manager
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Max 5.1 is still saying that the plugin fails to initialize, no matter which version I try to use.
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looks like maybe you've got a bad indice, maybe you aren't takeing into account the vert num, IIRC the (insaine) way vert and norms are stored is a vert number followed by a bunch of normals, this is of course insaine, but none the less the way it is, and east to inadvertenly grab the wrong normal. this is hard enough to make something that can read this mess let alone write it.
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No, I'm fairly sure I'm writing everything on the right places... My concern is more related to possible pointer misalignments than anything else. Anyway, Omniscaper - I've updated the MAX6 version, try to download it again and see if it still gives the same problem.
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Oh. I wish I wasn't away for so long in recent days. I would have loved to test this. *DL's*
In fact, I intend to very soon. :D
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No errors loading the plugin here - got the export option of an fs2 pof.
I do get an error re: missing DLL files (ViewportManager.gup) when trying to load the sample scene, natch. It's presumably a version difference (I'm assuming the max file is v5, so theres some change there?), but it means I'll have to setup and test my own scene to see if this works on my machine.
EDIT; ok...tried converting a single lod mesh (mesh & 1 subobject), and, er max crashed (just 'an error has occured' type message, no other info). Could this just be leaving the debris, etc, checkboxes unticked?
Also, i'm now getting this error on startup, and don't have the pof export option....
(http://www.aldo14.f2s.com/msgbox.jpg)
Think it's just that it's not been dereferenced by max, not sure.
EDIT2: same as omni, I notice.
EDIT3: doesn't export with options turned off, either. I'm going to check if it I can get a single object out, maybe just linked the damn thing wrong. (EDIT: nope).
I just checked, though. I have max 4.0, not 4.2 Bugger.
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Download ain't workin'. :(
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Hm, are your objects named properly? And do they have a material that has a bitmap texture on the Diffuse slot?
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Texture placement are all correct now with the latest build of the plugin. But that nasty shading issue is still showing up. When I try to view the model via Modelview it gives me an error about having too many normals.
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Gpofmax3.JPG)
Styxx, do you suppose this is an issue with my model? Perhaps using the "unify normals" modifier would help? Or are you sure it stems from the POF writing phase?
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I'm working on it. I don't think the Unify Normals will help, but you can try it out. I'm printing out the normals as I write them and they seem ok, but the models don't look right... Weird stuff.
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Originally posted by Styxx
Hm, are your objects named properly? And do they have a material that has a bitmap texture on the Diffuse slot?
Me?
Re 1/ I believe so. Main hull should be detail0, yes? (no other objects at the me)
2/ Yup. Although they also have bmp spec / bump / glow / opacity maps specified as well.
Omni - that looks like the effect I get on submodels whenever converting a model 'normally' - i.e. the main hull will be shaded fine, but the subobjects (turrets, lods, debris) have that bizarre shaded appearance. Are the nacelles correctly shaded, perchance?
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Nope, main hull should be "detail-0". ;)
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Gave it a try with the model supplied on MAX 6 and it seemed to work fine there. I'll try one of my own models later.
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Originally posted by Styxx
Nope, main hull should be "detail-0". ;)
ah......baws :o
Bingo, then. Converted, shading seems a bit off, though. I'm going to double check the smoothing on the max model itself, make sure it's ok.
EDIT; nope. Shading seems off...hard to describe how, but the model in modelview (with no textures shown, i.e.just the bare model) is almost completely the one colour, with some very small, very light 'strips' on a small number of faces.
Oh, and hows the size calculated? Is it just 1 max unit = 1m?
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Yep, size is in MAX units.
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Originally posted by Styxx
Yep, size is in MAX units.
Woot... I have a leviathan sized fighter+pilot :D
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Bollocks, not the submodel shading bug again!!!
The wierd part is, the main hull is the parent object. The nacelles seem to be shaded fine as one of the subobjects. I tried reversing the order and I still get the saame results. I'm now gonna check the model for intersections and other closed meshes within.
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(http://www.aldo14.f2s.com/difference.jpg)
Apologies for the filesize, didn;t want to lose any detail so didn't compress.
You can see the 'oddness' there. It's not too bad (actually, the cockpit subobject - which is hidden from view - is better shaded in the max2pof one). It's not so much 'bad' as just a bit odd.
That said, not viewed this in FS2 yet, so can;t make a proper visual judgement.
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It is ver bad, yes. It ruins the look inside FS2. I'm working on it.
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Ok Im dumb, what exactly is MAX and why is it so handy or why does everyone want it?
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Originally posted by Night Hammer
Ok Im dumb, what exactly is MAX and why is it so handy or why does everyone want it?
3ds max. Simply the best modelling programme there is*.
And anything which means we don't need to use *hack, spit* Truespace can only be a good thing
*expects arguements from LW people.
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Odd... I had no problem converting the sample... But, now when i try to convert another model, it won't load in FRED...
The model worked before as a POF (not made by me), and i was enlarging it to the correct scale, but i can't get it to go back to a POF... (a pof that works at least)... I know i named it right, and i've even tried unselecting the checkboxes for everything BUT detail levels, (since all i have is the detail, no other elements yet)...
gah... I'd post an image, but my ports are giving me crap...
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You know, it seems to me that the normals are reversed in it's shading. When I view it in Freespace tech room, the dark side is on top and the highlights are on the bottom.
Either way I understand that this pluggin is at its beta phase and I have high hopes for its potential.
I do question whether or not Freespace supports smoothgroups the way MAX does. As models get more and more complex, I believe the use of smooth groups will be essential. I'd rather not seperate the smoothgroups into independent meshes or to divide a single texture among multiple material ID's.
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This is too cool, Styxx :)
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FS suports smooth groupes in exactly the same way max does
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Yeah, more or less. The thing is, I'm translating the multiple normals per vertex from MAX directly into the POF (flipping the Y and Z axis, as required), I double and triple-checked the values by reloading the POF with my POF loader, but they just won't show the normals correctly.
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If thats the case, then Styxx's plugin is the only tool thats capable of utilizing it. Truespace kills that function. If I understand this correctly, the only way to get the smoothgroups to work in TS is to have a unique corresponding material for each smooth group. 3dsmax allows multiple smoothgroups independent of materials.
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you could just take the normals of the polys and average them at each point, but only takeing into acount normals from other polies that are in the same smooth group
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No, that's not the problem - I think I found it now. I was considering the normal indexes for each face on a per-vertex basis when, apparently, the indexes are an absolute number for all normals (which is ridiculous considering the way the normals are stored). Gotta figure out the best way to find the correct index now...
The reason my debugging was showing the correct data is because I interpreted it while reading the same way I interpreted it when writing... But Freespace 2 interprets it in a different way, and so does Modelview. I've checked some original FS2 models and noticed normal indexes on the 200 and above range, which would be ridiculous if it was on a per-vertex basis, so I noticed it had to be absolute... What a mess.
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as I said, toataly freaking insaine beond all comprehention.
do you see why I want to totaly rebuild this debacle.
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Okay, now it should work... At least mostly. Here's the MAX 5 version, the other two come tomorrow (don't have the SDKs here for compilation):
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp-max5.zip
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To tell you guys the truth, programming is so far beyond my comprehension level, but from what I observed in 3dsmax, smoothgrouping adds extra normals where necessary on vertices. Are these the normals you folks are talking about? So is Freespace capable of having vertices with multiple normals that will produce smoothgroups?
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OK another dumb question, do you just like draw it to model it, or do you hafta do alotta numbers n ****?
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
To tell you guys the truth, programming is so far beyond my comprehension level, but from what I observed in 3dsmax, smoothgrouping adds extra normals where necessary on vertices. Are these the normals you folks are talking about? So is Freespace capable of having vertices with multiple normals that will produce smoothgroups?
Yes, FS is capable of that, and that's what I'm trying to fix here. The normals on the main LOD0 mesh seems to be working correctly now, but it's screwing up the other subobjects, apparently. It would be really awful of the normal index was a per-POF file matter instead of per-subobject (which is already bad enough) - cause I can't think of another reason for the normals to be messed up on the subobjects.
Bob, can you confirm that? Are the normal indexes accumulated per subobject?
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ummmmm......models are cool. Chocolate anyone?
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I remember those days when model creation involved logarithms and stuff. POV-Ray I think. God bless those who invented GUI. If you know how to use Adobe Illustrator, that would be a rudamentary lesson in model creation. Throw extrusions and splines into the mix and you basically got modelling techniques. If you want to get into modeling, tryout Gmax.
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Ok, I just noticed that it will keep correct smoothing information on the submodels, as long as the faces are assigned to a smoothing group. Auto-smoothing doesn't seem to help a lot, though.
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And a warning - now it seems to be crashing on the second time I try to export something on the same session, so save your scene before exporting.
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Hmm, good news - auto-smooth will work if you convert the model to an Editable Mesh before exporting. :)
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*posts to get email updates on thread* :D
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is there a poly limit on this? I've got a 5098 poly ship, that just refuses to convert... Thats only with detail-0 and nothing else too...
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Nope, I've converted ships with over 10k polys with no problem... What's happening? If it just crashes, you should check the materials, see if they're all properly set and all. If they're all ok, send me the log files and I'll try to check it out.
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Updated the MAX 6 version:
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp-max6.zip
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Well, its opening in modelview fine... And it worked as a pof when it was about 30 meters long, but now when i put it into FRED, I get a CTD...
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Well, then that's probably a FRED problem...
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Well, now the results are different... It used to be that BEFORE it rendered the model, it would crash, now its after... I'm trying it ingame now...
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Ok, worked in the tech room, but it took almost 30 seconds to load the model (don't know if thats normal, as its the first model i've tried on my laptop)... It worked ingame fine, but when i minimised to type this, it CTD'd... I don't know if it was Alt-Tabbing, or something mission related... So i'll check again... I'll also try with different FRED builds...
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Alt-TABing kills FS2 for me even without using anything this plug-in made. I suspect the problem was the same for you.
As for taking 30 seconds to convert is this a HTL model? This is the 5096poly model you refered to earlier? If so then I'm surprised it converted that quickly. :) Again this is an FS2_Open problem and most likely nothing to do with this converter.
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My God, the shading is PERFECT!!!! CASED CLOSED is the shading issue!!! Styxx, MAD KUDOS!!!!
The only issue left is the reversed shading on the parent mesh. As you can see the nacelles have the proper shading and the the rest of the hull is reversed. I'll try reversing the order to see what happens.
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/GpofmaxP.JPG)
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Hmm, it's like the normals are flipped? I can see it's "shadowing" the wrong side of the engineering body section... Strange stuff, as it's the exact same code that generates the normals for all submodels, independent of order (it's the same method that builds all Object chunks). But I'll look into it.
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Right now I'm scrutinizing the mesh for intersections and other anomolies. Would such anomolies affect POF creation? Are there any tests I can do at my end?
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What if the vertices were being processed in the wrong order when creating the shading? (i.e. like clockwise instead pf anticlockwise)
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Omniscaper: no, that shouldn't have any effect. The only thing that could affect is if your mesh has negative scaling.
And Aldo, the normals are pulled straight from MAX, I don't calculate them. The order should be the same for all the models too, and if it was wrong, the faces would also appear flipped on FS2, not just the normals...
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Originally posted by Styxx
Omniscaper: no, that shouldn't have any effect. The only thing that could affect is if your mesh has negative scaling.
And Aldo, the normals are pulled straight from MAX, I don't calculate them. The order should be the same for all the models too, and if it was wrong, the faces would also appear flipped on FS2, not just the normals...
:nod:
Didn't think so, to be honest.
EDIT; that nodding smiley looks a bit too eager, dunnit?... ho hum
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Ok Styxx, I figured the problem out. I corrected the pivot point alignment on the mesh and Reset X-form on all objects. This process still confuses me, but I kept adjusting alignment till the Reset X-form function stopped changing the mesh. My guess is that the object was upsidedown pivotwise.
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/GpofmaxPF.JPG)
I smell SUCCESS!!!
FINALLY I see this model shaded as I see it in 3dsmax. The specular shine still reveals some anomolies but this so far is the BEST conversion of this model. I take it the vertex based specular shine will not be as perfect as ambient shading. I guess we'll have to wait till speculars work on a per pixel basis.
Now time to test this plugin with turret/shield/lod pacement.
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Hmm, could be - nice one. I usually have to use the Reset X-Form when I try to export something to Truespace for all the subobjects to end up in the right places, maybe its needed here too.
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*predicts a drastic lowering of TS piracy in the near future*
*ahem*
:D
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Awesome Work Styxx, there gonna be lot happy freespace modelers who Use MAX's :yes2::):yes:
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Have you got an updated v4 one available?
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Found the problem... (I think)... The model has 97 textures... Everywhere from 32v16, to 256x256... I guess that might be why... I don't know the limits for FSO, but texture numbers might be different depending on FRED/FSO...
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Er, Modelview handles at most 70 textures. My converter won't complain about it, but you won't be able to load it on pretty much anything else.
And updated plugins for all versions will be posted in a few moments, with added Subsystem support - I'm just finishing some tests.
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Originally posted by Hippo
Found the problem... (I think)... The model has 97 textures... Everywhere from 32v16, to 256x256... I guess that might be why... I don't know the limits for FSO, but texture numbers might be different depending on FRED/FSO...
97?!
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Ok, updated versions - the ZIP has the plugins for MAX versions 4, 5 and 6:
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp.zip
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97 textures!? Time to utilize 3dsmax's excellent texture baking tools now that 3dsmax have been beefed up by the skills of Styxx. By the way, Styxx, any resolutions for the
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/error.JPG)
bug?
I CAN FINALLY DELETE TRUESPACE!!!!
Now if only FSO supported morph targets...... =)
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Cheers Styxx :):yes:
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
By the way, Styxx, any resolutions for the
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/error.JPG)
bug?
Not right now, but I'm working on it.
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Dude, no rush. If you lived in the New York area, I'd buy you a round of beers!!!
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ok, now I have some questions:
1- does this plugin work with gmax too without all the exporting procedure?
2- does gmax have baking abilities?
3- does this plugin have all the autogen features we are used to?
...
...
4- does somebody want to teach me MAX?:p
@omni
what kind of distorsions does it have?
Originally posted by Sandwich
*predicts a drastic lowering of TS piracy in the near future*
*ahem*
:D
:lol: :lol:
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
Dude, no rush. If you lived in the New York area, I'd buy you a round of beers!!!
Lol! I'd take it for him! ;)
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Originally posted by Sandwich
*predicts a drastic lowering of TS piracy in the near future*
*ahem*
:D
*predicts a drastic rise of 3dsmax piracy in the near future*
*cough*
:D Thank goodness I have access to my school's extesive library of 3d program suites.
Karma, very little distortions on the specular side of shading. Its still a leap from previous TS conversions.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
*predicts a drastic lowering of TS piracy in the near future*
*ahem*
:D
*predicts a sharp increase in max Piracy in the near future*
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If I have anything to do with it! :lol:
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I feel this thread deserves a spot in the WIKI. Or at least a sticky.
*unintentional rhyme*
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Originally posted by KARMA
ok, now I have some questions:
1- does this plugin work with gmax too without all the exporting procedure?
2- does gmax have baking abilities?
3- does this plugin have all the autogen features we are used to?
...
...
4- does somebody want to teach me MAX?
1- No idea.
2- No idea.
3- Check the plugin readme, it'll do practically all POF data.
4- Not me.
:p
As for the distortions, if you can get a good picture of one I could try to check it out - but since there's only one set of normals for the model, and you seem to imply that the main shading works fine, I have no idea about what it might be.
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Doesn't have glowpoint generation, does it?
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Not yet, because the file format changes made by the SCP people were not documented. I'll be looking into the file loading code myself, though, and it'll be added.
By the way, I think I have fixed the annoying bug of the message while loading MAX, can anyone confirm this? Here's the updated version (same address, new file):
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp.zip
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*grumble* you said you were going to use the PCS Plugin SDK
*grumble* i spent mytime writing that damn plugin support and sdk and nobody used it
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Your SDK was a great help, but I realized it would be a lot easier to export the data directly from MAX than to make a MAX file format loader... Sorry for that, but you can be assured that the work on the PofCS plugin SDK was not for nothing...
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yeah yeah whatever :P
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PCS still kicks major ass. If it wasn't for PCS Iwould have never been able to get all those Trek ships to Freespace (as people actually use them :p) I still need PCS to create stuff like glowpoints, turretand FP normals, craft mass. In my opinion it was TS that made modding life suck, well at least for me. 3dsmax will make modding much smoother.
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
97 textures!? Time to utilize 3dsmax's excellent texture baking tools now that 3dsmax have been beefed up by the skills of Styxx.
How do I do this?
KARMA: I can teach you the basics I know...
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Still getting an error message saying the plugin cannot be initialized. Running version 5.0.0.93. HELP ME!!!!
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Did you try loading it through the Plugin Manager? It's on the "Customize" menu, select "pofexp.dle" and load it (through the right-mouse-button menu).
I loaded it on my version of MAX without problems, then closed MAX and reopened it and didn't get the Duplicate ID error that was happening before... If you're getting an error other than the Duplicate ID one, try using the MAX 4 plugin instead of the MAX 5 one.
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Tried loading it in the plugin manager but it was not listed.
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Here's the error message.
DLL failed to initialize.
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I suppose you tried using the MAX 4 version and it didn't work either?
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No luck with any of the versions posted.
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Hey, the excitement increases. Very encouraging to see your progress in particular, Omniscaper. :)
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Any chance of getting a version of this for 3DSMax R3 ?
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Originally posted by Styxx
1- No idea.
2- No idea.
3- Check the plugin readme, it'll do practically all POF data.
4- Not me.
:p
thanks for the big help :lol:
anybody else?:doubt:
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Max has a great low-poly modelling tutorial that should be all you need to get started... I'm willing to give you any help you need learning the UI,etc within the bounds of my own experience - just ICQ/PM me.
(I should probably write a proper Max-FS tutorial sometime)
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well, thanks, I'll ask for help in case of need:)
what I'm wodering more now is if gmax can bake textures and use this plugin
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Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
Any chance of getting a version of this for 3DSMax R3 ?
Sorry, but no, unless you can get me the r3 SDK - it wasn't available at the Discreet site (as the others were).
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Rats....I don't have the R3 SDK, so I'm basically screwed unless I 'acquire' R5....
Thanks for the quick reply anyway
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If you have R3 installed with the SDK, I just need the proper header files and libraries...
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Or, build with r3, and import to GMax (if the plugin will work... IIRC, GMax is about the equiveleint of r5...) and then export...
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HELP ME! I's anyone else getting the same error message that I am?
BTW does max have a errorlog somewhere I could look at?
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Not that I know of, but you can try to check the Plugin Manager window to see if it gives you more information. It's working on my MAX 5, so I have no idea why it wouldn't work on yours.
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New version, with Glow Point generation support. You'll still need to adjust the data on PCS, but it'll create the glow point groups and the actual glow points (eliminates the hassle of manually entering the position of each glow point).
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp.zip
I'm accepting suggestions regarding how to define the normal of each point, and the on/off data. Right now it uses some presets and you have to edit them on PCS.
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for normals (you mean orientation?) use a line connected to a point, named something to designate it is for the point, and then use a 1 or 0 in the point name for on or off... my 2¢
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Originally posted by Styxx
New version, with Glow Point generation support. You'll still need to adjust the data on PCS, but it'll create the glow point groups and the actual glow points (eliminates the hassle of manually entering the position of each glow point).
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp.zip
I'm accepting suggestions regarding how to define the normal of each point, and the on/off data. Right now it uses some presets and you have to edit them on PCS.
Can you use a directed light for defining the normal?
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I heard that 3d Max 7 has been announced. If a sdk comes out for that, are you planning to make an exporter for it aswell?
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Originally posted by Pilot Of The US
I heard that 3d Max 7 has been announced. If a sdk comes out for that, are you planning to make an exporter for it aswell?
Probably wouldn't need to if Max 7 is backwards compatible.......
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I doubt people will all suddenly ditch their versions and simultaniously upgrade to 7... old versions of MAX are expensive enough... let alone brand new ones... Mine was $500 with a student discount...
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[color=66ff00]Did a bit of research into a Gmax plugin, take a look at the note I added to Styxx's first post.
[/color]
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well thanks for the tests btw, sad news anyway
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300$ for student edition without student discount.
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Shouldn't this thread be stickified?
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Ok, stuck.
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For some reason, my Max copy has invalidated my authorization code... So until I get to do a new reformatting of my HDD, is there plans for a GMAX plugin? Do you need a GMAX Sdk for it?
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I'd need the GMax SDK, which is somewhat expensive. I don't really think a GMax plugin is possible right now.
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on and off data are times in milliseconds, displacement time is also needed if you want to do some sort of sequental thing, I have no idea how you are handeling the interface currently, are you useing some sort of custome defined object or lights?
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Right now it's just helpers (any light will be considered a helper by the converter). I'll probably add a way to define all of this through the object's User Properties.
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what are the current limitations (poly wise)? 'Coz I have here a nice model I would like to convert.
Link (http://www.wcnews.com/newershots/full/hornetset2-5.jpg)
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No limits on the converter (I converted models with over 10k polygons without problem), but I'd recommend breaking a hi-poly model into several models with around (or less than) 1k polygons, to avoid problems inside FS2. Just link all the submodels to the main detail level ("detail-0") and you should be fine.
By the way, I'll upload a new version soon where you can use a target spot/direct light as a helper, and the direction of the target will be used as the normal (for glow points).
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if you have to break an object up into subobjects do so by texture
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first I have to get rid of all but diffuse materials, right?
Also, will a model with 40k verticles, 20k faces work inside FS2 (theoretically)
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theoretically, yeah, it should, though it would likely take five minutes for it to genorate the index buffers for an object of that complexity
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Originally posted by Tolwyn
first I have to get rid of all but diffuse materials, right?
No, you just need to have diffuse bitmap materials on all models except for the shields. Additional materials shouldn't cause trouble.
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Any new builds yet?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but paths are a series of points, each with its own radius. A ship wanting to perform a docking maneuver has to fly to within the radius defined for the outermost point on the docking path, and then fly to within the radius of the next point along the path, etc. The radius of each point is (supposed to) get progressively smaller as the path gets closer to the destination. Ok so far?
So... I don't know if there are spherical helpers objects that can have a size defined for them - if so, great - but I do know that omni lights would be able to represent (with their radius settings) the progressively smaller points along a path.
No?
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How would I go about adding rotating subobjects? I'm trying to give this Dropship moving wings (timed and controlled in Fred of course) I'd also would like to utilize rotation for the forward gun turret. Your "readme.txt" has no mention of "barrel-x" which is in the sample. I'm guessing it needs to be linked to the turretbase?
(http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~bridgecommander/phpBB/files/dropship.jpg)
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The name of the barrel doesn't matter, just link it to the turret base object. And there's no way to specify object rotation axis right now, but any User Properties you set on MAX will be translated to subobject properties in the POF.
And Sandwich, yeah, that could define the radius, but I don't really like the way you'd set a path then. Right now it generates the radius automatically, you can adjust it in PCS or other editor. I'll think about the light thing.
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So I take it the turret doesn't rotate as of this point?
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You'll just have to adjust it on PCS or something similar. All the turret data is there, but the subobject rotation axis info isn't set.
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ok, i finally got a version of mex that works, and i installed the pof exporter but all my models are in cob format. is there a cob importer for max? i know it would probibly be better to save 3ds files from truespace and load those but if theres a cob importer i could forgo that step and save some serious time.
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PCS refuses to save a model made in Max. It simply crashes. Can Modelview input such data?
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Originally posted by Nuke
ok, i finally got a version of mex that works, and i installed the pof exporter but all my models are in cob format. is there a cob importer for max? i know it would probibly be better to save 3ds files from truespace and load those but if theres a cob importer i could forgo that step and save some serious time.
3dexploration
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Originally posted by Styxx
And Sandwich, yeah, that could define the radius, but I don't really like the way you'd set a path then. Right now it generates the radius automatically, you can adjust it in PCS or other editor. I'll think about the light thing.
Could you have lights linked to path points? I'm just trying to figure out some way of being able to visually define all the POF data; that's a main reason why I like Modelview32 so much.
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Originally posted by Raa
3dexploration
now is that another app or does it plug in to maxes interface? you see it would be easyer to save as a 3ds frome truespace than to use a third application. the idea was to eliminate a step, not add one.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Could you have lights linked to path points? I'm just trying to figure out some way of being able to visually define all the POF data; that's a main reason why I like Modelview32 so much.
Not in MAX 6, unless I did it wrong.
What you could do is to turn on snap-to-grid, or rather vertex (grid and snap settings), and then create a light at each point and define a radius. That would fix a visual representation.
Maybe something can be done with name the light after the path's point, or something.
Just an idea.
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I hate MAX 6, btw. I want my tabbed toolbar back! Waaaa!!
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Er, press "I". Or whatever the key is on your installation. It's still there, you know. :p
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Originally posted by Nuke
now is that another app or does it plug in to maxes interface? you see it would be easyer to save as a 3ds frome truespace than to use a third application. the idea was to eliminate a step, not add one.
third app. But it preserves everything better. I have yet to get a mesh from TS saved as 3ds to load in max. Always invalid file format.
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Raa you must IMPORT it, not OPEN it. TS doesn't save the best 3ds format either. I get those errors now and then.
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Originally posted by Styxx
Er, press "I". Or whatever the key is on your installation. It's still there, you know. :p
Show Tab Panel or whatever? Doesn't work. :p
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
How would I go about adding rotating subobjects? I'm trying to give this Dropship moving wings (timed and controlled in Fred of course) I'd also would like to utilize rotation for the forward gun turret. Your "readme.txt" has no mention of "barrel-x" which is in the sample. I'm guessing it needs to be linked to the turretbase?
http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~bridgecommander/phpBB/files/dropship.jpg
I just caught that; to make the barrel rotate I think it needs to be a physical subsystem but not a turret to link to firing. You'll need to consult the barrel rotation documentation on how to get it working, but for the moment just make it a subobject.
I still can't get this plugin to work, but I have a model ready to be put through it. Anyone with Max 5.1 want to take a crack at it?
EDIT: And this is moot since paths have already been implimented, but if you wanted a visual representation of path point radius, you'd need a dummy object at each point defining the path, rather than a line. The line method helps you see the path itself better though, so it's probably the best overall bet.
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I have Max 5.1 (about) and it still wont work
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That makes two of us. I have the SDK, I'd recompile it on my comp if Styxx would let me borrow the source, but that is of course entirely up to him.
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The plugin posted for MAX 5 was compiled with the 5.1 SDK, which is available at the Discreet website.
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Then it probably wouldn't do me any good. Oh well.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
I hate MAX 6, btw. I want my tabbed toolbar back! Waaaa!!
For the fellow MAX6 users, who got used to the TAB bar from 5 and GMax:
http://clownbarf.com/downloads/max6_tab_bar.zip
Credit to GE for pointing it out to me...
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Originally posted by StratComm
I still can't get this plugin to work, but I have a model ready to be put through it. Anyone with Max 5.1 want to take a crack at it?
Anyone? It's Vasudan and it goes public, if that helps. I'm trying to get the half-dozen "waiting for conversion" models together, since I don't have to mess with truespace now (in theory).
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Well, if my copy of Max actually worked, I'd do it for ya. But it's allowed itself to creep to the intardnet and find it's authorization code on the blacklist...
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If its all set up with the correct labeling, send it to me ( [email protected] ) and i'll convert it...
Styxx: How would one do destroyed turrets?
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Er, no idea. How are they handled on the POF?
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turret01-destroyed :p
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Actually I'm not really sure; they are essentially live debris linked to the turret subobject I think. No editing program, to the best of my knowledge, actually renders them correctly, so I don't even know where to look to check that.
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Destroyed turrets are usually set as subobjects in the same way as turrets are... they 'linkage' occurs as they have the same name with '-destroyed' appended - there's no gluing / connection to the turret subobject.
Debris is handled in the same way except, IIRC, you need to set a rotation axis, and can also have multiple debris objects i.e. turret01-'debris01' etc.
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Any progress on implementing rotating multi-part turrets or subobjects? I'm trying to get the nose machine guns for the ALIENS dropship working ,and in addition, the folding wings and bomb bays.
PCS does not like editing the Dropship POF model made with your MAX plugin. Perhaps its the model? It just crashes and renders the POF dead when I try to implement rotation and other subobject properties. I've yet to try the same thing with the latest Modelview but that program limits me to use models under a particular polygon count (Galaxy starship model = 11k polys)
On the plus side, your plugin workd WONDERS with shading and has increased performance in game vs the Galaxy model I converted via PCS. I got an extra 5-10 FPS. Perhaps its because I'm using MUCH less materials considering I no longer have to create duplicate materials to get smooth groups to render correctly.
Keep up the good work. ;)
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:wtf: They don't rotate unless you specify pof data afterward for the subsystem. The Converter's not responsible for that...
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Not the job for the converter!???
PCS is a converter AND properties editor, the same as Modelview. Now this 3dsmax plugin will be completely useless inreguard to intricate model creation, if it dioesn't have its own properties editor. Of course, even if the final version of the plugin is finished without a properties editor, the POF's will suck [no rotation, engine glows, blinky lites (3.6 feature), multipart turrets] unless PCS and Modelview are able to successfully add properties to thos POF's without crashing or corrupting the POF.
So far I haven't been able to edit any POF's created with the plugin with either PCS (crashes and corrupts) or Modelview (poly limit).
So I think is an important issue that should be looked into. Otherwise, the plugin makes FABULOUS translations of 3dsmax models into FSO.
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Well, I won't make a properties editor, but I'll try to add as many features through the object properties on MAX... The rotation and light timing, for example, will be done through specific strings on the user properties. I didn't have time to do it yet, though, but it should be done as soon as I get some more free time to work on it.
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Multiparts are supported, glowpoints are supported, engine glows are supported, etc. They need a couple of things added for full functionality, but the setup is there.
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What is the limit to the number of subobjects and turrets I can incorporate? I have a total of 23 for the Galaxy class model 10 of which are turret models, and the export crashes Max!!!
I wanted to finish my first Max plugin conversion tonite but I hit this stumbling block.
The original Truespace model that was successfully converted infto FSO included MUCH more than 23 subobjects. I counted 34 for the turret models alone.
Like the original, I'd like to make the Phaser arcs turret models so i can incorporate their damage models vs applying turret firing points without models/damage.
Are model subsystems suported?
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I just found that models made with this plugin will not resave in Modelview. Modelview so far is the only POF editor that has an important editor called "moment of inertia".
Styxx, Is it a difficult task to incorporate a way to input moment of inertia settings? Otherwise, fighters cannot be made using this plugin unless people like having their fighters flung wildly from every beam or turret hit.
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Er.... I don't seem to be getting any pof output using this at the mo. I'm just trying to export (as a test) a cube, and the *.log files but nothing else is being output. No error messages, or anything.
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What version 3dsMax r u using? Did you look at the sample scene that came with the plugin? Try converting that first.
A couple things you need to make sure of. The cube must be collapsed into an "editable mesh". It MUST have a texture under diffuse. Is it named "detail-0"?
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name was wrong, re testing
EDIT; generated pof file (which won't open in modelview/PCS), max crashed upon(?) completon of generation. Hmm.
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Styxx warned me of something like that... try double checking the readme file...
One of the output windows doesn't do what you'd think it does... IIRC. (My ICQ logs have been erased, so I can't double check)
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Raa, I've been exporting with all checked marked. What issues have you been encountering with the plugin (besides the occassional crash).
I think I may have a problem with models having collission issues. I was warned that if the sun flickers through the model in game, that there are errors in the mesh.
Beamsalso seems to be another issue, since many times it would pass right through the ships yet pulse and missiles don't. I've yet to isolate whether or not the beam bug is caused by models made from this plugin or the FSO code.
C'mon folks let give Styxx more input of what we're experiencing if we want a perfected version of this plugin. Also root for some mass/moment of inertia settings :)
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I haven't actually used it yet. I was just recalling what styxx was telling me on ICQ about it. But there have been releases since then, so it may have been fixed.
I rarely run 3ds, since its requirements are a bit more than my PC has, ATM.
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I got it to convert without having any of the options checked, seems ok (can open, edit and save in modelview), but I need to check whether the shading is off (this is possibly the model itself, though). Unfortunately, it appears that the subobject shading problems still exist :(
EDIT; yeah, looks like the LOD shading is done correctly, just a minor model thingie :) Thank god, I finally have 45 degree smoothing ;)
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Whats really great about this is 3dsmax's smoothgroup information is carried over. FORGET auto-faceting, you now have FULL controll over what gets smoothed and where edges should be.
The subobject shading bug?! It renders perfectly for me. Checkout the previous pages of this thread. Modelview does show issues, but in game it looks perfect.
I still don't know exactly how to adjust pivot orientation, or orientation of normals. After experimenting, I stumbled on fixing the "reverse shading" issue showed previously.
Whats really great about its
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The pof exporter failed to load when i tried to start up MAX 4.2.
I got a "DLL " type error.
I beleive someone else has already reported this problem.
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Sorry, but I have no way of verifying that problem - I don't have that version of MAX. I'll look into the Moment of Inertia thing when I have time, didn't have any to work on it lately.
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MOI is a rotation matrix so if you are going to give it a default value set it to an identity matrix.
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Originally posted by Styxx
Sorry, but I have no way of verifying that problem - I don't have that version of MAX. I'll look into the Moment of Inertia thing when I have time, didn't have any to work on it lately.
I've not encountered it since using the latest version, myself. If it's the double load thing (think Omni posted it on page 2), then you can just tag & load it manually.
Incidentally, RE: MOI, I can load max2pof converted models ok in Modelview and edit it there, fortunately.
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Thank you
I was scared I would have to use truespace
"You can take my 3dmax from my cold.... dead.... hands..."
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LMAO
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any updates?
Thank you styxx for allowing all of the modelers to use the greatest of modeling programs.
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Amen, GT!!!
Styxx??? R U still alive?
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Er, yep, I am. Sorry for the stalled progress on this.
Got some bug reports from Raa a few days ago, I'll try to look into them soon. I'll also try to add support for setting Moment of Inertia directly through MAX's object properties, but it'll be a hack through text on the User Properties field...
Is there anything else? Anyone feel like making a comprehensive list of stuff missing/not working?
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Has Raa mentioned the thing with the turret barrels (when linked to the base) moving out of position?
(NB: seems to only occur with LODs in my brief experience. Albeit it was working fine at one point - but I needed to flip the model end-to-end, at which point it occured. The working converted model had no problems with flipping, however)
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Any chance of someone posting a quick tutorial on making this plugin work?
I have been trying to get it to work ( On Max 6 ) and just can't get anything to convert over! Except, that is, the sample model that came with the plugin!
This, at least, tells me it isn't the plugin that os failing...just the human mind directing it ;)
Does the model have to be in a certain format, set up in a certain way ( I thought I had the hierarchy right... ) and so on. Just a list of essential criteria would help :D
I am fed up with shading being such an issue / burden when you have to set up the smooth angle for every material in TS3!
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Meek are you sure everything's been converted to an editable mesh? Send me a model you are trying to convert, I'll give it a go.
Styxx, with the advent of 3dsmax 7, any chance you'll make a plugin for that?
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:) No 'ship' as such :)
I was just creating a simple cube and trying to turn it into a working POF. I just made a cube, turned it into an editable mesh, textured it, and started adding some of the paths and points to make weapon points and so on.
When I fired up the plugin, I got the list of things to check and when I carried on with the conversion Max would not produce anything :(
I will give it another go.... but until I can make something as simple as this work, I am NOT going to go to the trouble of building a mesh in Max. I can build in LW and convert OK, so I am in no hurry ;)
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send me the cube... i wanna see your setup. What version of 3dsmax r u using? I got 6 and will be getting 7 soon.
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I've been experimenting w/ the plugin over the weekend, and I can't for the life of me get rotating parts to work. Has anyone been able to do so?
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In order to get rotating parts requires PCS to input the rotational settings. The pluggin at the moment has no such input. If you remember the Alien Dropship I converted with the pluggin, you'll see it has rotating prts. Just set up your subobject hierarchy correctly and add the rotational settings via PCS.
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Omniscaper...I don't think I kept the cube... all I did was to create a cube primitive, convert to editable mesh and apply UV to texture it. Then I tried to export as a POF.
Gets about 50% through then crashes Max. This is in Max 6.
Like I said, though, if I try the same on the sample included with the plugin it works fine, so it isn't down to versions etc. it's purely down to how I have set up the object...or not, as the case may be!
I could use some simple 'guidelines' as to what I need to do !
I thought it would just work if I made a simple object, textured it and exported....it should work...it wouldn't have the extra detail...but it should work. If I delete everything except the base mesh in the test model, it does work!
so....
1) I am assuming I have to texture it...do the materials have to be somewhere particular?
2) Is there a prticular hierarchy I need to make it work?
3) What MUST I do to set up the mesh for a successful conversion?
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Make sure the cube is named Detail-0 or it will not convert.
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OK...not crashing...but still no joy :(
Here's the steps I followed EXACTLY....
1) Create primitive cube
2) Convert to editable mesh
3) set up material ( BMP ) as a simple diffuse map and applied to cube
4) Applied UVMap modifier and tweaked the gizmo a bit
Go to export as a POF and it produces nothing. No file. Tried it with all boxes checked / unchecked
This has really got me stumped :(
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Are you using the latest version of Styxx's plugin?
My method of making sure the conversion is successful is to use the following checklist:
1. All meshes are "editable mesh"
2. Hierarchy structure (as assigned in the sample model)
3. Material assignment (make sure ALL meshes have a texture in diffuse)
4. Remove shield model designation with "shield" UNCHECKED
5. Reset X-form all objects.
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The object I was attempting to convert has no hierarchy .... it is just a cube.
I tested this with the example model to verify whether the hierarchy was the problem by deleting everything except Detail-0. This converted OK.
I also tried to eliminate an incorrect material by opening up the example, deleting ALL it's parts, and creating my cube using the material created for the example. Applied it to the mesh, but I still get no POF.
The cube is an editable mesh.
Reset transforms just to check
Unchecked each option in the export dialogue one by one, still no POF.
Renamed my cube to Detail-0
Making sure the object was an editable mesh eliminated the crashing, but I get no POF at all created from anything except the example....
I really can't see what is the difference between the example model and my simple test model!
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
In order to get rotating parts requires PCS to input the rotational settings. The pluggin at the moment has no such input. If you remember the Alien Dropship I converted with the pluggin, you'll see it has rotating prts. Just set up your subobject hierarchy correctly and add the rotational settings via PCS.
I've been defining the rotational parts in modelview32... would that make a difference?
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Is it detail or Detail, and is the plugin case-sensitive?
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I copied the EXACT syntax from the sample model, which was Detail-0. I wasn't sure if it was case sensitive, but it worked like that on the supplied sample.
Made no difference to my success rate with the plugin...which is still a big fat zero :(
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I'm not sure. I got errors myself last time I converted, but that was simply down to having an extra digit (detail-00). So....I dunno.
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Originally posted by Styxx
Not that I know of, but you can try to check the Plugin Manager window to see if it gives you more information. It's working on my MAX 5, so I have no idea why it wouldn't work on yours.
Getting the same error as deepblue. Plug-in was not listed in plug-in manager. Attempted to add it into plug-in manager. Failed, same error.
Is there a DLL file you have, that maybe we do not? Might as well be in your Windows directory.
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Originally posted by xenthorious
Getting the same error as deepblue. Plug-in was not listed in plug-in manager. Attempted to add it into plug-in manager. Failed, same error.
Is there a DLL file you have, that maybe we do not? Might as well be in your Windows directory.
BTW, I know this problem can not be entirely mine or user error. The following link is a totorial to making models for the game Neverwinter Nights (which I may add, is a bit more powerful then FS2). In this totorial, there is a FTP which provides plug-ins that work for 3DS Max 4 & 5.
These plug-ins are installed on my 3DS Max v5, and are loaded right now. The totorial can be found here:
http://www.bricksbuilder.com/nwn/tutorials/placeables1/
This is a clip letting you folks know that indeed have there plug-ins loaded fine:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/clip.jpg
Here's the error I recieve when adding the plug-in from the plug-in manager:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/clip2.jpg
Here's the error I recieve when loading 3DS Max 5 while the plug-in is in the './plug-in' directory:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/clip3.jpg
I would really like to see my version of 3DS work for FS2Open modding. It will be a disapointment beyound reasonable interest to see this not fixed. Thanks much for your patiance.
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We all want to see this working, all of us.
Please be patient.
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I'm sure he is. It's just been about 1.5 fields of forum chat since the last notation of it not working, so I'm =)
I read through each and every one. I'm very impressed with the work. I do not know if this would be helpful at all, but it seems the project lead has little experience with 3DS Max? Might want to contact that group from the link I gave you above, asking for a bit of advice. There pluggins work flawlessly. They may be able to give you the edge that is needed.
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Originally posted by xenthorious
I read through each and every one. I'm very impressed with the work. I do not know if this would be helpful at all, but it seems the project lead has little experience with 3DS Max? Might want to contact that group from the link I gave you above, asking for a bit of advice. There pluggins work flawlessly. They may be able to give you the edge that is needed.
Who, Styxx?
He's got a ****load of experience with Max IIRc, he's just a generally very busy bloke :)
Got to be honest, I've not encountered your problem since using the the newest version of the plugins... so what is going wrong for you, I don't know.
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Ok, in the interest of community bug-fixing, I was using the plugin with no problems at all, exporting to POF multiple times w/o crashes, on a model that I had not yet put any helpers in. Once I added a helper - BOOM. Crashes every 2nd time like clockwork.
Anyone care to confirm my observation?
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Ok, in the interest of community bug-fixing, I was using the plugin with no problems at all, exporting to POF multiple times w/o crashes, on a model that I had not yet put any helpers in. Once I added a helper - BOOM. Crashes every 2nd time like clockwork.
Anyone care to confirm my observation?
i had a crash using the helpers for a path, but that may be because I misfolllowed the instructions (I can't load the example max scene for some reason, maybe version differences).
I've succesfully converted a model with helpers for the weapons banks, subsystems and thruster glows, however.
Only thing is that the thruster glow is pushed back on the z-axis ingame... compared to its position on modelview. i.e. modelview shows the thruster glow where it should be (when converted), fs2_open seems to shove it back a substantial distance. I don't think this will be a conversion problem, though.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Who, Styxx?
He's got a ****load of experience with Max IIRc, he's just a generally very busy bloke :)
Got to be honest, I've not encountered your problem since using the the newest version of the plugins... so what is going wrong for you, I don't know.
"You?" Did ya not go through the forum, BLOKE! :cool:
No really, I'm not the only one having this problem. And as you can see from my links, it ain't my problem either. One set of plug-ins doing a similiar thing should not work if it was. This shows that a valued resource is not being retreived correctly, which I feel, is the fault of the plug-in. Was the video card a possible option? I use an ATI card (which did have its difficulties with FS2SCP).
Oh well, I'm sure he'll figure it out sooner or later. Just don't let him forget about us BLOKE! :lol:
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Hey guys, I have a question for you. I want to take one object and apply two different skins. How do I do this?
For example, in the object I have here:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/sample01.jpg
The faces of which are highlighted in red, I desire one skin.
Now, in the second sample:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/sample02.jpg
I would like to apply a different skin.
I do not know what this process is called, and I do not know how to do this. Could someone explain please? Thanks a but load. :cool:
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well you should avoid doing this as much as posable, it slows down rendering, though if it's a capship you don't have much choice.
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Originally posted by xenthorious
"You?" Did ya not go through the forum, BLOKE! :cool:
No really, I'm not the only one having this problem. And as you can see from my links, it ain't my problem either. One set of plug-ins doing a similiar thing should not work if it was. This shows that a valued resource is not being retreived correctly, which I feel, is the fault of the plug-in. Was the video card a possible option? I use an ATI card (which did have its difficulties with FS2SCP).
bloke?
Anyways, I don't think anyone who was using the newest version of the plugin suffered from the loading problem; that seemed to only occur in the first plugin version, at least for me & the initial sufferers.
I presume you definately have the newest plugin files?
Originally posted by xenthorious
Hey guys, I have a question for you. I want to take one object and apply two different skins. How do I do this?
For example, in the object I have here:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/sample01.jpg
The faces of which are highlighted in red, I desire one skin.
Now, in the second sample:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/sample02.jpg
I would like to apply a different skin.
I do not know what this process is called, and I do not know how to do this. Could someone explain please? Thanks a but load. :cool:
Just drag the material from the materials editor over the highlighted sections.
NB: is it Uv-ed? You'll need to do that to have the texture show (in the modifiers choose 'edit mesh', select faces, drag over material (still in edit mesh), then 'uvmap object'.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Just drag the material from the materials editor over the highlighted sections.
NB: is it Uv-ed? You'll need to do that to have the texture show (in the modifiers choose 'edit mesh', select faces, drag over material (still in edit mesh), then 'uvmap object'.
I figured that was what I had to do, just don't think I did it in the right order. I'll try in the order you gave me, see if that works. Thanks a bunch.
As for the plug-in, I believe I have tried evey version of it. Just to be on the safe side, I'll search it out and try it again.
Another question if I may; when making a model, what polygon count should I keep the model limmited down to? Ah, also when making turrents, should the objects used to make the turrents fall under that same polygon count? Sorry to bother and thanks for the information.
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I got the two skins placed on the same object. Thanks again for the information.
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Originally posted by Styxx
New version, with Glow Point generation support. You'll still need to adjust the data on PCS, but it'll create the glow point groups and the actual glow points (eliminates the hassle of manually entering the position of each glow point).
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp.zip
I'm accepting suggestions regarding how to define the normal of each point, and the on/off data. Right now it uses some presets and you have to edit them on PCS.
This is the most recent post which also contains a link via ftp to the most recent plug-in I can find. It does not work. To add, this post came before other posts (eg. deepblue's post) which indicate I am not the only one having this problem. If there is another release of this plug-in and it's more recent, please provide a URL. Thanks a bunch.
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Originally posted by xenthorious
I figured that was what I had to do, just don't think I did it in the right order. I'll try in the order you gave me, see if that works. Thanks a bunch.
As for the plug-in, I believe I have tried evey version of it. Just to be on the safe side, I'll search it out and try it again.
Another question if I may; when making a model, what polygon count should I keep the model limmited down to? Ah, also when making turrents, should the objects used to make the turrents fall under that same polygon count? Sorry to bother and thanks for the information.
Polycount should include all objects on that lod, so yep; include turrets&debris plus any other stuff.
The limits.... I'm not sure if there is a hardcoded limit with FS2_open. FS2 retail had a limit of about 850 per subobject and I think about 5000 overall (all lods)
I'd recommend - for SCP;
Fighters / small ships; 1500-3500 LOD0, roughly halfing for each lod below that
Cruisers / small ships; 3500-5500 including turrets for LOD0, obviously can cut a lot of polys for lower lods with removal of turrets
Destroyers / Large ships; 4000-9000
These may be a bit high, though, especially for large ships. Fighters tend to have a lot of polys if you model in a cockpit as I do, but this drops drastically on lower lods (which have no visible cockpit)..
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I got 3d max, I've downloaded the files but where do I install them too? sorry me = noob and trying to learn
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Originally posted by LOKO
I got 3d max, I've downloaded the files but where do I install them too? sorry me = noob and trying to learn
Look in the 3dsmax directory there's one called plugin. Install it there.
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Originally posted by xenthorious
BTW, I know this problem can not be entirely mine or user error. The following link is a totorial to making models for the game Neverwinter Nights (which I may add, is a bit more powerful then FS2). In this totorial, there is a FTP which provides plug-ins that work for 3DS Max 4 & 5.
These plug-ins are installed on my 3DS Max v5, and are loaded right now. The totorial can be found here:
http://www.bricksbuilder.com/nwn/tutorials/placeables1/
This is a clip letting you folks know that indeed have there plug-ins loaded fine:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/clip.jpg
Here's the error I recieve when adding the plug-in from the plug-in manager:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/clip2.jpg
Here's the error I recieve when loading 3DS Max 5 while the plug-in is in the './plug-in' directory:
http://talimoor.game-host.org/clip3.jpg
I would really like to see my version of 3DS work for FS2Open modding. It will be a disapointment beyound reasonable interest to see this not fixed. Thanks much for your patiance.
Yeah! Someone else with the same problem!
Fix it Styxx! Maybe you are using the wrong version of the SDK for us...
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*bump*
Any status on this project?
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Been too busy with job and coursework lately, but after the first week of January I'll have the time to start looking into it.
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hey styxx, just so I know for future reference, if I/we were to make totaly diferent BSP geometry definitions is you program sutup in such a way as to allow you to make such channges easily?
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Yup. It has its own file structure, which is simply translated to the POF format by a write method. It would be a matter of making different write methods.
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NB: could someone give me a copy of the user properties for a glowpoint please? (I can't load the ref scene)
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Are there any plans to bring this fabulous pluggin to 3dsmax 7?
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C'mon, please fix it so it works with Max 5 right!
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Agreed. Is there anyone who has a working plug-in version for Max 5+? I'm going to need someone to convert my mod into a usable model for FS2, and my plug-in don't work...
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Well, it obviously works with MAX 6, because it converts the test mesh no problem. It just refuses to convert MY mesh. Bah. I must be doing something wrong.
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Request; can we have something added in to set the viewpoint? It's not mentioned in the readme atall, modelview won't save and PCS doesn't like me.
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I'd like to make it known that the Max6 plugin will work perfectly (As perfectly as it can, that is) under Max 7
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I'd like to whine somemore so people fix it so it works with Max 5 properly.
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Originally posted by xenthorious
This is the most recent post which also contains a link via ftp to the most recent plug-in I can find. It does not work. To add, this post came before other posts (eg. deepblue's post) which indicate I am not the only one having this problem. If there is another release of this plug-in and it's more recent, please provide a URL. Thanks a bunch.
And I'm not the only one with the problem.
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There is no newer version than the one in the very first page.
However, I just added a large bit of info to the wiki concerning the plugin. So if you are having trouble, try reading the wiki info and see if it helps. :)
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I doubt anything in the wiki would help. My problem seems to be unique to a few (read 2) max 5 users. I'll take a look anyway though.
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Why are we supporting so many different versions of Max when there are a few that need resolve first? Isn't this known as scope creeping? There is quite a few users who use Max5 and can not get it working with the plug in. Max is a lot of money in cost. Why support so many high end version when it is more so then likely that users will have older versions? It seems pointless. Yeh, it also cool and maybe even fun, but scope creeping undermines the objectives to why a plug-in would be made.
In a nut shell, HELP US ALREADY! :lol:
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Originally posted by Raa
There is no newer version than the one in the very first page.
However, I just added a large bit of info to the wiki concerning the plugin. So if you are having trouble, try reading the wiki info and see if it helps. :)
If you read back a bit, some posts I made shows that I have already sucessfully installed plug-ins used for the Neverwinter Nights Game, allowing models to be installed into the Aurora Toolkit. Bluntly speeking, installing your plug-ins should not be any different. Dispite this however, I have gone through all the documentation offered and verified that a problem is present. All URL's refering to pictures (errors) leading from my FTP should still be in my posts. Please review them.
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Originally posted by xenthorious
Why are we supporting so many different versions of Max when there are a few that need resolve first? Isn't this known as scope creeping? There is quite a few users who use Max5 and can not get it working with the plug in. Max is a lot of money in cost. Why support so many high end version when it is more so then likely that users will have older versions? It seems pointless. Yeh, it also cool and maybe even fun, but scope creeping undermines the objectives to why a plug-in would be made.
In a nut shell, HELP US ALREADY! :lol:
Probably because the vast majority of modders don't actually pay for their Maxs? ;)
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Well, i agree that you should focus on getting the plugin working for one version of max first (Max4) and once that has been verified to be working for at lest 90% of users, begin work on the next version (Max5). Or even durring the development of the Max5 plugin, fixes could be implemented into the max4 one.
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Let me guess. You have Max 4 right? :p
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Originally posted by xenthorious
If you read back a bit, some posts I made shows that I have already sucessfully installed plug-ins used for the Neverwinter Nights Game, allowing models to be installed into the Aurora Toolkit. Bluntly speeking, installing your plug-ins should not be any different. Dispite this however, I have gone through all the documentation offered and verified that a problem is present. All URL's refering to pictures (errors) leading from my FTP should still be in my posts. Please review them.
I'm sorry, but I will not go hunting through 300 posts to find your problem. Either quote what the problem is, or link to the post directly.
I don't know what trouble you are having with the plugin. (I also am not the one who made it) But, all you have to do is place the plugin in the 3dmaxN/plugins/ directory. If/when you get the error message at startup, all you have to do is click Customize -> Plugin Manager... find the plugin, right click, and select 'load'.
It really is that simple.
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The plugi-in does NOT show in the plug-in manager so you can not load it
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Unfortunately Raa, the "pofexp.dll failed to initialize" error isn't solvable through the plugin manager in any way, shape or form. It won't load, period, and no matter how many times we're told to try a different approach.
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Oh. Well, I said I wouldn't look through all 6 pages to see his problem. I was thinking it was the 'duplicate class found' error.
What I added to the wiki is assuming that the plugin loads.
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@karajorma, actually i have Max2.5, so im basically netural. I only used the whole "Max4 then Max5" as an example. It doesnt matter which way you go, eg Max6, Max4 then Max5, just as long as you focus on one version of the plugin then move onto the next version once the previous one has practially all it's bugs killed.
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Originally posted by Raa
I'm sorry, but I will not go hunting through 300 posts to find your problem. Either quote what the problem is, or link to the post directly.
I don't know what trouble you are having with the plugin. (I also am not the one who made it) But, all you have to do is place the plugin in the 3dmaxN/plugins/ directory. If/when you get the error message at startup, all you have to do is click Customize -> Plugin Manager... find the plugin, right click, and select 'load'.
It really is that simple.
FYI, if you do a search under user, 'Xenthorious' and look only for posts within this topic, you quickly narrow down the search to only 12.
Once again, here are all the urls you need to verify the issue:
plug-ins that work from Bioware NWN: http://talimoor.game-host.org/clip.jpg
Plug-ins which fail to init on startup (provided by this dev team): http://talimoor.game-host.org/clip2.jpg
Plug-ins which fail to init on manual startup in plug-in manager (provided by this dev team): http://talimoor.game-host.org/clip3.jpg
Post from Deepblue indicate this is not an isolated issue. Thanks for your concern.
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Please don't let the dream die!
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Yeah, don't.
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Wow, still having problems with the 3dsmax 5 build of the pluggin? I've been problem free throughout my Galactica modding. I thought the latest build (the glow point build) fixed that issue with initialization. It did with me. I use 3dsmax 6 going on 7.
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I swear, I tried that exact build like a week ago. Oh well, looks like I'm back in business :D
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I think it has to do with 3ds max 5 specifically.
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Originally posted by Deepblue
I think it has to do with 3ds max 5 specifically.
Weather it does or does not, it is very irritating that we can not do any modeling work using 3DS for any FS2 projects. Also, I've noticed if we do not b!tch about it, people easily forget us. With this said, if I sound rude from this point on, it's not my intent to be hostile. I just want to see this problem resolved and behind us.
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Originally posted by xenthorious
Weather it does or does not, it is very irritating that we can not do any modeling work using 3DS for any FS2 projects. Also, I've noticed if we do not b!tch about it, people easily forget us. With this said, if I sound rude from this point on, it's not my intent to be hostile. I just want to see this problem resolved and behind us.
You can use 3DS for anything just cant convert it directly to FS, just a quick stop in TS for hierarchy and it works just fine
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That quickstop is the source of a world of pain.
....especially since unlike Max it can't handle smoothgroups without assigning a different material to each and every part you want to assign a different smoothgroup.
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Ugh... he said the T-word.
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"...the T-word" LOL.
Does anyone know how this pluggin sets the normals for turrets? I have 98 turrets that do not shoot straight. The only fix is to use PCS to adjust each and every one. PCS runs painfully slow with a 23k model and I don't have 5 hours to devote to this process. There must be a way to set it in max. Its exporting normals data into the POF somehow.
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I'm betting it uses pivots as normals.
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
"...the T-word" LOL.
Does anyone know how this pluggin sets the normals for turrets? I have 98 turrets that do not shoot straight. The only fix is to use PCS to adjust each and every one. PCS runs painfully slow with a 23k model and I don't have 5 hours to devote to this process. There must be a way to set it in max. Its exporting normals data into the POF somehow.
I don't remember the naming of anything, but I think it uses a helper object bound to each turret, and draws a line from the center of the turret geometry to the helper object. Look in the sample POF for an example.
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This thing's still a bit buggy with positioning a lot of smaller heirarchy bits; turret barrels don't line up correctly if they aren't geometrically centered on their base, for example. Also, if the model itself is not centered about (0,0,0) almost all point helpers get shifted and you wind up with wrong-facing normals. Finally, I'm seeing stability issues that desperately get resolved. I'd settle for a command-line tool that regenerates the BSP data without touching the normals or polygons themselves, so that we could get the Max plugin's excellent helpers and perfect smoothing conversion combined with the superior collision-detection of ships converted with PCS.
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OH NOES! I HAVE V1.2!!!! :( :( :( :( :(
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:wtf:
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WOW!!! Thats old skool! I haven't used 1.2 since 1998.
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I upgraded 5.0 to 5.1 and it still doesen't work
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Where can i find an upgrade?
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Google is your friend.
So is search...which is A1-Super in HLP-BB.
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look for 3dsmax_51_Update
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Random pseudo-bug: dockpoint normals (and indeed any normals based off of paths) should be calculated to the last point in the path, not the first. Not terrible by any means, but if there's ever a revision this should be fixed.
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YOU ALSO NEED A 2ND DOCKING POINT!!!! Determines heading.
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Bah, it converts fine with two dockpoints associated with a single path. :p It does make the normals point the wrong way though if the path is at all curved.
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Can't believe this has been here for so long and I never saw it! =O
Will test it out with Max5.1 -Btw the link for the 5.1 version is dead. :p
Thanks man!
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Get it from the first page, that's a much more up-to-date version than anything else in the thread. The same zip has all three versions (Max 4, 5, 6).
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Yah realized that after I opened it. :p
Am working on a ship now. Been a long time since I've done this, but damn is it easier with this. Saves redoing all the pof data after making slight updates etc.
I'm presuming since its in the export menu it works too. :)
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I cannot find the gmax upgrade :(
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Question: Does the shield mesh have to be orientated a certain way to work properly?
I think that my shields may be inside out... :ick:
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The faces should point out, but orientation shouldn't matter. Take the sheild mesh, select all of its faces, and find the 'flip' button to reverse the normals.
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I never figgered out how to make shields.
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I know how to flip normals etc yeah, but was just wondering if the spehere has to be pointed a certain direction?
I actually, just took a copy of the shield included, and modifed it.
I just did a test with all the fighters lined up in a row, with shields, like a firing range.
I found that none have proper working shields.
I can shoot right through where the shield mesh of a ship will be and nothing will happen.
More disturbing is that the shield only works in some places of the ship. And in other it shots fired will go straight through and hit the hull.
Sometimes, a shot fired at the front of the ship will make the shield hit effect at the back of the ship, or on the other side.
Something very strange is going on. I basically extraced the shield mesh to a pof, and then imported it to another poth via modview.
I have no idea what the flag "smart shields" does, but it seems to have no effect on or off.
Also, sometimes a shot that hits the shield will cause the game to crash.
Anyone got any idea?
btw @ Cobra:
Just take a look at the sample file, it has everything you need to know in that demo max file. :)
Except the stuff that's buggering me up... :doubt:
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maybe you have your lasers set at the right frequency. :D did you check the tbl file?
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?
If you can't get max working, then you could just import the shield mesh from another fighter of similar shape into your current pof using Modview.
I hope its not a 'I give up' nevermind. We need more mods! :)
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There's a slim chance that orientation may make a difference with the Max plugin; reset X-form on the shield mesh and see if that makes the problem any better.
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I did reset the mesh and no difference was made.
I've a sneaking suspicion that its the order of the faces or something?
Has anyone else had this problem?
I was exporting the pof, and then importing the shield mesh to another model via modview. Maybe its modview that's breaking stuff?
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That's a possibility. Try it through PCS maybe. Though if it's still a problem, I'd export the shield from Max to TS, and import it that way (even if you have to give it a dummy ship) if the mesh itself is still acting up.
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Actually, I've got a hunch.
If you compare the shield mesh in the demo file, with the original shield meshes there is a large difference.
Being the number of poly's.
I will try reducing the amount of poly's to be the same as the original fighter shields, or near to. (It would be difficult afterall to count them all.)
Which actually brings up another query. Is it possible to get a .pof importer ?
This would be quite handy in updating old ships, and debuging new ones.
Update:
Tried out the ships with the same number of poly's as the originals (Just reduce the segments of the isoca sphere to 2). Same problem.
It might of actually made things worse, because its very rare that the ship's shields will light up.
POF Constructor suite does the same thing.
I even tried using one of the original fighter shields mesh. Some of it was working ok, but the rest was the same deal.
I'm starting to think it might be the pof exporter that's broken.
I'm running out of ideas... Can anyone help?
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Can this go on the back burner until next week? I can manually look at the scene and pof once I get back to school but I can't do anything from here.
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have you tried aurora?
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I checked a few earlier posts, and spoke with Omni dude as well.
Turns out shield mesh exporter hasn't been working anyway. :blah:
Oh and what is Aurora? :confused:
Name rings a bell, but can't quite put my finger on it.
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Bob's model editor. :p
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:blah:
This is why the wiki needs an overhaul.
Plus why forums can't be trusted as newsposts.
You miss a day, and something important can be washed under the sea of spam. :p
Do you have a linky for Mr.Can'tBeBotheredToSearchForIt? :p
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hmmm, lemme get back to you while i search for Bob's sig...
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Here.
Clicky (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/Aurora.zip)
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Don't use Aurora. It'll corrupt your POF more often than you realize, and most of us aren't accustomed to working with backups. What I'd do is export the shield mesh as a 3ds file, convert it (joining verts in 3dexploration, of course) to cob, slap it in a dummy heirarchy and convert it with PCS. Then you should be able to import a (stable) shield mesh from that.
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Aurora works well if you only ever work with backups. It is THE best pathing tool in the community for instance.
Just load the model. Autopath save it under a different name and then import them into the original model in PCS. Takes about 2 minutes to do something that takes hours otherwise.
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I wonder why Bob has a faulty model editor in his sig, hmm?
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Like I said there are some things it does very well.
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looks like a timewarp happened...
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Originally posted by StratComm
Don't use Aurora. It'll corrupt your POF more often than you realize, and most of us aren't accustomed to working with backups. What I'd do is export the shield mesh as a 3ds file, convert it (joining verts in 3dexploration, of course) to cob, slap it in a dummy heirarchy and convert it with PCS. Then you should be able to import a (stable) shield mesh from that.
It may be that I'm two days without sleep, or that I'm stupid, but could you please clarify this thanks?
Are you saying make the shape in max, but avoid the exporter, import it into 3dexploration (don't currently have) and then do what? Re-order a shield mesh?
Can truespace export a shield mesh model without issues?
Sigh. Maybe we could request Styxx to fix his shield code. Need something to bribe him with though. Maybe a cookie or two?
Will more gratitude appeal?
Sigh, we really need a one step process for ship conversions... :sigh:
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PCS can import a shield mesh from a Truespace .cob with no problems. But to get it there, you have to export the mesh from Max as a .3ds, open it in 3dexploration (I think Kara's got a link to a free version), save it as .cob, open it in Truespace, set up the heirarchy, and convert it to a game model via PCS. I'd just put the shield mesh around a cube or something so that it's convertable, then import it from the dummy pof into whatever you're working on. By the sound of it, you're using the same shield for multiple ships, so you'd only have to go through conversion once. But enough of that, give it a few days and I'll see if I can do it for you. But don't complain too much about the conversion process; the plugin is extremely close to a one-step conversion, if it's used correctly.
Originally posted by karajorma
Aurora works well if you only ever work with backups. It is THE best pathing tool in the community for instance.
Just load the model. Autopath save it under a different name and then import them into the original model in PCS. Takes about 2 minutes to do something that takes hours otherwise.
It is the best pathing EDITOR in the community. The Max plugin makes pathing even easier as it adds more flexability to path generation (how hard is it to draw a line?) but it's only really good when you're converting something. After the fact, it's useless as there is no way to get POF files back into Max without losing half their data.
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Ok.
BTW, what does the heirarchy have to be like?
Its several ships I'm trying to get a shield for, but a couple can use the same shield mesh anyway. But I can line them up properly by exporting from max, opening in Modview and then adjusting in max as need be.
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In truespace, load the cob that you've converted from the shield in Max, and place down a cube and a pair of local lights. Name the shield mesh "shield" and glue one light to it and the other to the cube, and finally glue the shield group (should also be called "shield" just to be safe) to the cube as well. If you can get trueview it should look like this:
cubeGroup
-cube
-local light
-shield
--shield
--local light
Save the top level entry as a cob and convert that to POF using PCS. Then you can import it to your fighters as needed.
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heh, i'm adding lights as firing points for Getter Robo G :D
BTW, sorry about the looong delay, Getter, eh, school crap got in the way. :nervous:
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Good news. I got it working.
This is what I did to get it working with Max5:
1) Get the latest plugin offered from this thread.
2) Make sure you have Max 5.0 installed.
3) Download this patch @ ftp1.discreet.com/web/support/3dstudio/3dsmax_51_Update.exe
3) Follow the instructions with the archived file which has the plug-in.
5) Start max, your done.
Hope this helps guys.
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Now, for the really really good question. So good, it's totally retarted. How do I use the features of which this plug-in offers?
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I'm already using max 5.1 for one, and two the exporter was working it was just not loading properly ingame.
But I tried it with other original meshes as well, so I'm thinking its the pof, because I got the same results in both modview and pof construction suite.
As for using the pluggin, it has a max file which shows what you need to use it properly. Once you have your model and everything else setup just goto export->save as '.pof' in the drop down list, then select the options you wish after clicking save.
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Darn, was hoping for something more... thrilling. I already knew about the export feature. =(
Oh well. Does the export give you automatic fead back when a model has a design not suitable for a pof file? I already know most about the polygon count, but what about when you want to set something that rotates, how is this handled?
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Um, I'm not entirely sure on certain details myself.
I'd check in the sample model first, see if you can figure it out going by how the turrets set up.
Otherwise either sift through the millions of posts in this thread or PM someone who uses it reguarly.
Sorry I can't be of more help. :|
I never used a heirarchy in max yet though. So I'm going to test that with the info StratComm put above.
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Max heirarchy is finiky at best for this; it preserves everything correctly but isn't all that useful for what you're working on. What I was suggesting was for Truespace. I'm back at my modeling PC now though, if you want to send me a (correctly scaled) .3ds of the shield mesh I'll see if I can't get you a working POF to import from.
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As far as I can tell, it extracts the pof fine.
Its just when I go to import when it screws up.
I even tried importing a shield mesh from the hi-poly herc 1, and I still got the same problems.
So it might be the pof that is stuffed.
Alot of the ships need to be rescaled, retextured etc, so I might give up on the shields for now.
Hopefully it was just the pof or a faulty build I was using.
Thanks for the help anyway.
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No problem :) If I ever get around to learning how to map fighters (well) then I may get the chance to test this properly.
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:)
I think it might be a SCP bug rather than the exporter after all. I read a few places where the shield collision was playing up.
Hopefuly they fix it soonish...
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Can this thing do live debris?
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live debris? :wtf:
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Yeah, turret debris and the like. It can, by the way, and I was being an idiot, just make sure you name the live debris "submodelName-destroyed" and the game figures that out on its own.
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I was trying to get the time to do this myself, but you might be interested anyway.
You can make 'invisible' subsystems now, that the player can't select.
So say on a fighter or corvette, in the highest lod seperate the nose, make it a 'subsystem' with a destroyable lod.
So then ingame, once that particular area takes a certain amount of damage it explodes and walla, a big chuck is taken out and you can see the damage on it.
Someone's yet to do a proof of concept for it, but I think it would look very cool if someone pulls it off correctly.
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Yeah I know about the hidden subsystems, the HTL Orion is designed to use a number of them if tables are set up correctly. The Bodicea installation (the asteroid with the Iceni inside) makes extensive use of live debris, almost to the extent you are refering to, though the objects that can get blown off are targetable there.
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Just a question about the live debris idea: is it really practical? At least without a bit of code change that is.
What I've seen in missions is that yep, the sub-objects get blasted off alright, but in missions where any repair work to the ships are carried out, the geometry does not revert back to the undamaged state.
This looks especially weird when there are invisible turrets shooting at you, or you've targetted a subsystem or hull that is showing 100% but still remains looking like the damage models. Since fighters and bombers often use repair craft during the course of a mission, it would seem rather odd.
I've used any number of scp builds so far and have not seen this change, unless I've missed something?
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The idea would be for untargetable 'systems' which are basically just a damage lod for the ship.
So you shoot the wing, it blows a chunk off and you see the damage lod. Now even if the hull integrerty was restored back to full, you woulld not be able to repair a chunk of wing via a few seconds and a support ship, you'd have to wait till you get back to base.
So it just counts as if the support ship blowtorched any holes shut.
It might be easier, to just have one damage lod for fighters, so once a fighter is below 50% hull, it reverts to the damage lod.
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Thread split; Java vs. C++ cra-err... stuff goes here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,31628.0.html). :p
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MAX 7 WORKS :) :) :)
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* whistles innocently *
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Originally posted by i90r
MAX 7 WORKS :) :) :)
Yes. If you check the Wiki, You'll see that I wrote that ages ago...
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What about the shield meshes do they work...? :)
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Some more relatively minor issues that I've noticed:
[list=1]
- MOI is just wrong. I'm going to take a guess and say that you should be dividing each entry by mass and then inverting the matrix for it to get anywhere reasonably close to what we see in standard models.
- Mass is calculated to be way too high; I think about 1/100th the current number would be pretty close IIRC.
- The max radius is just wrong. I'm going out on a limb and guess that it is either being set to be the primary hull's length, which will be twice too long in most cases, or that path primitives are being taken into consideration when radius is determined. It should be restricted to at least geometry. The pain with radius is that nothing lets you edit it, and when set too high, as is happening now, you can't zoom in close when you view the model as a target in external view. I don't know what else that radius is used for, but it shouldn't be nearly as big as it is now. The only way I've found to fix it is to manually hex-edit the correct radius in, and that's dicy at best.
EDIT: and fix the naming conventions. Not only is turretxx more standard than gunturret-x, Freespace seems to have trouble differentiating between gunturret-1 and any gunturret-1x. Took me ages to figure out why only half of my turrets worked correctly, but just renaming the subobjects worked wonders.
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Originally posted by Styxx
* whistles innocently *
Would that be the innocent whistle of a new version in the works, by any chance?? ;)
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either that, or one of escaping guilt. :p
Here's hoping its the former... :D
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I have a question related to this topic. I want to learn how to script plugins for both Maya and 3DS. I found some books out for general Maya (MAL?) scripting, but I can't find any on 3DS. Weather I work on another game or this one, I would like to know how to create plug-ins. My question is, what books do you know of, would you sugest me looking into for learning how to do this on either or Maya & 3DS? Thanks.
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Not sure about what books are available. I guess you could try a google search for them.
I do believe that 3dsmax comes with help files on how to use it though. Given that you've some general coding knowledge you should be able to pick it up pretty easily.
Figuring out the pof data though, that's another question.
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Pof specs are available via freespace-2.com IIRC
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Sure?
Thought one had to nick them off Kaz...
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Yep. I've been using them to hex-hack fixes for things the converters have screwed up in the header.
EDIT: http://www.freespace-2.com/ddn/specs/pof/
except that the domain seems to have expired on 04/11/2005. Go figure. Please tell me someone has these backed up.
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Originally posted by Styxx
Ok, this is the first public beta version. It's basically an export plugin for 3D Studio MAX r5 - it won't work on other versions as of now, but I'm working on recompiling it for MAX 4 and 6. It'll convert the model, and if you add the proper helpers and adjust the names, it can generate most of the extra POF data. Right now it's able to generate:
- Detail Levels
- Debris
- Gun/Missile Turrets
- Gun/Missile Banks
- Shields
- Insignia
- Paths
- Docking Points
- Engines
- Subsystems
- Glow Points
It'll also preserve the model hierarchy from MAX on the POF subobject hierarchy. It's still somewhat buggy, hence the beta status, but it worked with all well-formed models I tried. Some notes:
- Don't try to convert objects without UVW data (except for the shields)
- All mesh materials must have a bitmap type texture on the Diffuse slot
- The shield object shouldn't have a material (found problems with that once or twice, do this just to make sure)
The readme.txt file included with the ZIP contains instructions on how to set up your MAX scene, and a sample scene with a very simple model. I just ask that, if you try it and find a problem, report it so I can get it fixed. Alongside the POF file the exporter will generate a few log files ("pofexp.log","pofexp_debug.log" and "pofexp_mesh.log"), if you could send me these files when you report a bug it would be helpful. Also, if you can tell me specifically what went wrong, I could get it fixed a lot faster.
Anyway, here's the file - it contains the plugin for MAX 4, 5 and 6, a readme, and a sample file (with a texture):
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp.zip
More functionality will be added soon, including support for subsystems and SCP specific POF data.
EDIT: Yes, that file is the last version, I'll keep it updated here on the first post. :)
[color=66ff00]For all of you wondering if you'll be able to use this plugin with Gmax I have a bit of disappointing news: It seems that Discreet charges $1200 a year for use of the Gmax SDK and it would seem that the plugins are written in a different way to stop game devs. from using a max SDK to write Gmax plugins.
The only cross platform plugins are those that are written in plain text that max and Gmax's 'console' use. Now you know why Gmax doesn't have as big a following as it could have. :blah:
//Maeglamor
[/color]
I have Gmax..how do i export the models into pofs???
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You'll more than likely need to export to a format that can be read by another program, like lithunwrap, or something similar, and then convert it to pof through truespace.
For the time being atleast.
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thanks.
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does it work wit gmax??
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Originally posted by Aquatayne
does it work wit gmax??
Not AFAIK; I believe GMax uses a different plugin code format which you need a paid license for. I think this should be mentioned somewhere deep within the bowels of this thread.....
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No. You have to pay a lot of money for the SDK to develop plugins for G-Max which is somehow written different than the 3D Max plugins.
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It does say so in the first post...
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Update: missile turret generation does not work. They get generated as subobjects but all turret info is lost. Not much difference here AFAIK in terms of how the game handles them, so not the end of the world.
Also:
- path names MUST begin with a $ or they don't work in game. The data's still there, the name just goes funny.
- glowpoints should default to type 0, normal=(0,0,0) rather than type 1, normal=position
- You can't attach a path to a subsystem, despite this being a legal combination
I'll keep updating this under the assumption that it'll get worked on again someday.
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Originally posted by StratComm
Not much difference here AFAIK in terms of how the game handles them, so not the end of the world.
absolutely no diference, they get loaded by the same code, literaly
code snip
....
break;
case ID_TGUN:
case ID_TMIS: {
int n_banks, n_slots, parent;
model_subsystem *subsystemp;
....
if the gun turret code is working just use that, because as you can see the game doesn't care wich one you use.
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i tried to use the exporter, but when i tried to export there wasnt a file at all after exporting. did anyone have this problem before?
are there any special things to consider when exporting the geometry? for example, i just tried to export a simple object.
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Base-level geometry needs to be named properly to show up. My guess is your "ship" consisted of an object named something like "cube01"; to get it to convert it needs to be named specifically like the sample file has it. I.e. the primary hull would be "detail-0".
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thx! thats it, now i see the geometry.
thank you very very much!!
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There wouldn´t happen to be a tutorial available on using this plugin? While I could gather some info by looking at the sample scene, I feel a bit lost...
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No, I'm afraid there really isn't. If you have questions, ask, someone should at least have an idea as to what to do.
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I really need to learn to do Max heirachy before I try and convert anythin' other than basic meshs:doubt:
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Read the readme file it tells you most of what you need.
And I didn't know how to use Max heirachy either until I needed to use this plugin. :p
It's basically managed via the 'select by names' with 'show heirachy' ticked. Then to modify any heirachy its just a matter of using the attach and detach //Select and link, actually. ;) buttons on the toolbar. :)
Easy when you know how I guess. ;)
//Fix'd ;)
//Meh. Same dif. :p
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Need some assistance,
I got a model ingame, textures work, glowpoints work, physics work, however its screwing up the collisions.
Model looks complete ingame, as I fire at the surface the lasers go right through the surface im shooting at, however, gun impacts appear on the opposite side. I am also about to fly 'inside' the model, and get collisions when i try to fly out.
Ive tried different normal states but its a no go.
Any suggestions?
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If asking really is generally accepted, I might take a shot :)
After exporting, I can´t see my model in FRED, and Modelview won´t show texture mode. So I guess the textures are the problem ;)
The question is, in what format should the textures be in max, and later in the maps folder to show up as they should?
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Format does not matter in max. Modelview will always look for the image to be in pcx form. And I am unsure of FRED's image format capacities.
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Originally posted by Devils_Hitman
Need some assistance,
I got a model ingame, textures work, glowpoints work, physics work, however its screwing up the collisions.
Model looks complete ingame, as I fire at the surface the lasers go right through the surface im shooting at, however, gun impacts appear on the opposite side. I am also about to fly 'inside' the model, and get collisions when i try to fly out.
Ive tried different normal states but its a no go.
Any suggestions?
I really hope this means your shivan ships are coming to a FS install near us ;).
There's one unwritten rule about using this converter: you HAVE to reset the transform (X-form) on all geometry bits before you convert. My guess is that you mirrored your model at some point in time, so all of the normals are "backwards" when exported. It's better to do this before you set up the heirarchy. It's in the utilities tab in Max, but PM me if you want a more detailed explanation.
Originally posted by General Kazooie
If asking really is generally accepted, I might take a shot :)
After exporting, I can´t see my model in FRED, and Modelview won´t show texture mode. So I guess the textures are the problem ;)
The question is, in what format should the textures be in max, and later in the maps folder to show up as they should?
Raa's right, in Max it doesn't matter. FRED will use any format that FS2 will use, provided you activate them (FRED has a -jpgtga command line flag too, IIRC), and Modelview will only open pcx files.
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ok, thanks alot :) Stupid of me not to think about activating jpg in FRED...
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Originally posted by StratComm
I really hope this means your shivan ships are coming to a FS install near us ;).
;7
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first thx for the collision thing, i had the same problem, but now it works fine.
but i have another problem with turrets. i did it like the sample file, names and hierachy is ok, but somehow the positions of the shooting points and barrels are messed up. they are way in front of the base or way behind and a bit up or down the base. are there any special things to consider when setting these up?
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Believe it or not, that's a symptom of the same problem. Unlink everything in the scene, select all, go to the utilities tab, and reset X-form on everything. You may also need to collapse the stacks on things (collapse tab -> select collapse to modifier stack result -> Collapse) to get them to convert correctly. Re-link the scene and all collision errors and misplaced turrets should be fixed.
The problem is that besides wierd transforms on the object itself, which may break collisions, all subobjects are set to offset from their parent rather than to the world, while the converter writes those positions out as world coordinates. If you move or scale that parent while it has things linked to it, then everything gets out of whack. I generally link and unlink a scene 3-4 times for a conversion just because of errors like that.
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ok, will try that, thanks in advance!!
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Would it be too much to ask for someone who is experienced using this thing to contact Maverick personally and help him out with this? He has put together some fantastic new ships for The Babylon Project and we are unable to get them into the game.
As for the turret thing if someone can tell Maverick how to get the turrets into a pof as submodels in the correct position that will do. They don't even have to be named as turrets or set up with fire points. Those changes can be made easily using a pof editor.
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ok, now a question about LOD´s. Do I have to create helpers($engine) for each LOD? Or should I link each LOD to the same helper..?
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You should only need one helper concerning the subsystems.
You shouldn't have to link all the lods to the helper either. IIRC you just link each lod to its parent aka LOD0.
IPAndrews: Try what Stratcomm said above, unlink everything so there is no heirarchy, then reset X-Form everything before relinking everything and exporting.
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Do Not Link LODs to Anything.
LODs are just there.
Turets, helpers, physical subsystems get linked to LODs.
Debris, individual LODs remain unlinked.
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Okay, I didn´t have the other LOD´s linked to LOD0. Appreciate the help, guys.
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Do Not Link them TO LOD0! LODs are left unlinked.
THe only things that get linked to LODs are the things that are supposed to be on them, ie, submodels, turrets, radar, etc.
*kicks grug for misleading people*
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LoL. Listen to Raa he'd be more experienced in this area.
Just check the example file to test how it all works. :)
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Thanks again :) At least I didn´t have time to get to work on the model before I checked the forums again ;)
But I still have a major problem... I tried to find out the problem by exporting every time a bit more, starting with just detail-0 and then adding things every time I exported. I got as far as detail-1 :D
I can export just the detail-0 mesh fine, but as soon as I add another level of detail, max crashes and I´m left with a pof, in which detail-0 is non-existent.
I hope I managed to describe my problem in a comprehensible way, though I might be too frustrated to do that ;)
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Hm. sounds like it's encounterring something that is named incorrectly. Or your mesh isn't in edittable poly format.
Try selecting every object and converting them to edittable poly. Also double check the spelling. And finally, if there is a gap between names, such as detail-0, detail-2 detail-3, it will also fail. (for debris as well as LODs)
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I´m currently trying to export two meshes: named detail-0 and detail-1. Both are editable polys, and have a bitmap in the diffuse material slot, in the export options I ticked only the option "detail levels". I can´t get it to export them both. Separately it exports them, though... Anyway, max crashes and I´m left with a pof in which there is no LOD0.
//Nevermind that, it seems there is something with my detail-1 mesh, now if I only knew what...
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Select the detail-1 mesh, then use the reset xform tool.
After doing so, you may have to rescale the mesh, and correct it's orientation (rotation).
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i tried it with reset xform, but it didnt help. i tried it 3 times in a row, nothing, i even build those damn turrets 2 times from scratch, still no export.
btw, i always use editable mesh in max, and it exports them too!
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ok guys, still no answer and i am getting really really angry about this. i have tried this now for 4 hours and nearly 50 times in ALL ways i could think of, i tried to reset x-form, at least 10 times, i built those turrets from scratch, 5 times, i tried it with pivot arrange, all ways at least 20 times in all combinations, i attached other objects, the detail-0 mesh, a new mesh, i bind it, unbind it, used mesh and poly, NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!
so what the **** must i do to get this ****ing mesh to ****ing fs2 engine? DAMN!
i thought i had seen anything, but this thing is driving me into suicide, really....
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What version of max are you using? If it's 5.1 or lower, send me the scene and I'll see about troubleshooting it.
If it's crashing reliably, you've got something else wrong. Make sure you haven't skipped any numbers in the names of debris, turrets, or lods. It could be heirarchy related as well, but any old mesh should convert one way or another. Oh, make sure you don't have a polygon somewhere untextured. That shouldn't break the export, but you never know.
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sorry, in all that anger you get the wrong, i have no problem with the export at all, it is just the positions of the turrets and subsystems.
mostly the barrels are screwed in its positions and the subsystems, the gunturret-XX are in place, but never ever the corresponding barrel-XX and point-XX
i just dont get why the hell this keeps happening, i tried everything. and i use max 6, without updates. i use editable mesh for all objects, all is textured, no holes in the mesh etc.
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To fix that, don't link the barrels to the bases, link everything to the LOD.
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Ironically holes don't make much difference. I can't look at that scene, unfortunately, and I know you've already said you've done it, but select one of the offending turrets in Max (not the arm, just the turret itself) and reset the x-form on that. If the barrel moves, then you're not ungluing everything. If it stays, then something else is wrong. Also, just to be sure, you've got the entire stack collapsed when you try to convert, right?
And Raa's suggestion works too, it just means that the autogen won't be 100% complete.
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the tip with connecting all to LOD0 works, i have to change the rest in pcs then. but the subsystems are still messed up, wrong positions for all of them
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ok, i got it, and btw, i am soooooooooooo stupid
anyway, i hope noone will ever have this problem again:
the problem was my LOD0, the pivot of it wasnt in the world pivot of max. so i guess everytime i exported the LOD0 was drawn into the world pivot which looked like all other parts positions were screwed up. how stupid.
anyway, if anyone else ever has this problem, just trie to get your LOD0`s pivot into the world pivot, just a tip ;)
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Oh duh. Yeah, you have to do that too :rolleyes:
As you're finding out, learning to make this converter work right is much harder than just making it work.
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Hey, it's simple if you follow the rules! :D
By the way, I'm getting back to working on it. First change is dump the naming convention for turrets, anything with the word "gunturret" on its properties field will become a gun turret, and anything with the word "missileturret" on its properties field will become a missile turret. Any other suggestions for changing naming conventions? I can make just about anything work that way, except for the LODs - I'll need to keep some sort of ordering there.
I've had some reports about the impossibility of exporting destroyed subsystems, but it should be possible - just adjust the hierarchy same way you would do on Truespace to have it working. Can anyone confirm that it's impossible for me?
Oh, and can any of the interested parties go through this thread and write me a list with all the reported and not fixed bugs? I can start to fix them, but I don't have the time to go through this whole thread looking for what to fix. And once I have them fixed, I'll need people to test it, since I can't do a lot of testing myself, specially for versions of MAX other than 5.
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Good to see you're back at this :yes:
It still doesn't work with Max 5.1
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Er, I have MAX 5.1 and ran all my tests on it. :wtf:
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I'm sure I've converted a (albeit with only LOD0) model with lots of 'destroyed' subojbects.
The only problem I know off offhand is the bounding box (or similar... er, look at it in the lab) being created too large.
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Originally posted by Styxx
Er, I have MAX 5.1 and ran all my tests on it. :wtf:
Well, it doesn't for me. I get the "pofexp.dle failed to initialize" error on start-up. I tried all versions of the plugin with the same result. StratComm used to get the same error, but for some reason it works now for him, without doing anything differently.
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Originally posted by Styxx
Hey, it's simple if you follow the rules! :D
By the way, I'm getting back to working on it. First change is dump the naming convention for turrets, anything with the word "gunturret" on its properties field will become a gun turret, and anything with the word "missileturret" on its properties field will become a missile turret. Any other suggestions for changing naming conventions? I can make just about anything work that way, except for the LODs - I'll need to keep some sort of ordering there.
I've had some reports about the impossibility of exporting destroyed subsystems, but it should be possible - just adjust the hierarchy same way you would do on Truespace to have it working. Can anyone confirm that it's impossible for me?
Oh, and can any of the interested parties go through this thread and write me a list with all the reported and not fixed bugs? I can start to fix them, but I don't have the time to go through this whole thread looking for what to fix. And once I have them fixed, I'll need people to test it, since I can't do a lot of testing myself, specially for versions of MAX other than 5.
Wohoo, updates!
Can you make "turret" the code for gun turrets? Since they are name specific in the tables, it would make upgrades and existing table entries much more bearable. It's a lot easier to delete one or two extra turret entries in PCS than to rename every one of them and deal with the potential bugs there.
Oh, and while shields convert, they are not stable, so some more work may need to be done there. And MOI is still obviously wrong (right now it fills it in, for me, with the ASCII of "Genuine Intel...", so processor info, which is completely useless for MOI. All zeros would be better. Something that makes the chunk stand out like a sore thumb in a hex editor would be even better, short of making it work correctly)
Originally posted by aldo_14
The only problem I know off offhand is the bounding box (or similar... er, look at it in the lab) being created too large.
Yes, the radius is usually set to about twice what it should be. To simplify the actual calculations, I usually find the distance to the farthest corner of the object bounds from center. Right now it seems like it's calculating from one corner of the bounding box to the opposite one, which is almost always twice the true radius.
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If I recall correctly exporting shields was a bit buggy, or lacked sufficient documentation to get it to work... :(
Good to see your working on it again! ^_^ :yes:
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No, they convert fine and easily. Just FS_O doesn't always like them, and may crash from time to time because of them.
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The shield structure is absurdly simple, there shouldn't be any problem with it... No idea of what may be causing the crashes.
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well, you did most that i needed by now, i just would like to have a more stable exporter, cause every 3rd or 4th export it crashes my max. (version 6 btw)
also i would like to have an eyepoint exporter.
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Originally posted by Styxx
The shield structure is absurdly simple, there shouldn't be any problem with it... No idea of what may be causing the crashes.
When I get a chance I'll look at a bad shield chunk and see if anything stands out as wrong. IIRC, it's just pure geometry data, so unless something is out of order or verteices are getting duplicated or something, I can't see why there would be any kind of problem.
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hey, can you get one for Max7? thanks. :)
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ummm i doin a mod for a completly different game (Freelancer) so is it possible if u can make an importer for max 6?
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An importer is out of the question for now. To build a version of the exporter for MAX 7 I'd need the MAX 7 Plugin SDK, which I don't have.
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y is an importer out of the question?
i need 1 badly
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First, this forum doesn't tolerate much leetspeak in actual discussion. Spell out your words and use capitalization, punctuation, and where necessary complete sentences.
As for an importer, it's not high on the priority list because, well, it's a bit redundant. If you want geometry data, use PCS to go from POF to COB, convert the COB to a 3ds file, and import that into Max. And most of us would much rather see Styxx use his limited time to make the exporter work better than to start a second tool from essentially scratch.
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That, and there are probably very few of us here that understand the freelancer model formats, so it would be very difficult to make an importer for something we haven't used for years.
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:nervous:
I think he wants a POF->Max converter, not to deal with Freelancer models but to take Freespace models to Freelancer formats in some roundabout way. I won't say there haven't been times when I wanted such a converter, but I'd rather have the exporter working than worry about importing someone elses work.
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DONE:
- Changed turret generation format
TO DO:
- Export eye point data
- Check main object radius generation code
- Generate proper moment of inertia info
- Some problem with Shield chunk
- Stability issues
I'll post a new version once I have a few more bugs squashed or features added. Can someone check the Shield chunk being generated by the exporter and try to figure out what's being done wrong? Also, I can generate proper Moment of Inertia info if someone with experience on defining values for it can give me a rough formulae.
:)
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Originally posted by StratComm
First, this forum doesn't tolerate much leetspeak in actual discussion. Spell out your words and use capitalization, punctuation, and where necessary complete sentences.
As for an importer, it's not high on the priority list because, well, it's a bit redundant. If you want geometry data, use PCS to go from POF to COB, convert the COB to a 3ds file, and import that into Max. And most of us would much rather see Styxx use his limited time to make the exporter work better than to start a second tool from essentially scratch.
OK im sorry about the leetspeak.
What is PCS?
]Originally posted by StratComm
think he wants a POF->Max converter, not to deal with Freelancer models but to take Freespace models to Freelancer formats in some roundabout way. I won't say there haven't been times when I wanted such a converter, but I'd rather have the exporter working than worry about importing someone elses work.
I'm using :v:'s models and convert them to CMP (thats the model file and u cand download it at lancersreactor.com)
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Originally posted by Aquatayne
What is PCS?
Pof contructor suite. You can find links in my FAQ.
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thx dude
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No problem. Just remember to actually load the pof before trying to export it as a .cob file. That one seems to catch out almost every user of PCS once :D
If you need something to convert from .cob to a format 3DS max can use check out my downloads section too.
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Great to see back in commision, Styx!!!
Issues list:
So far the only issue thats bugging me and others and I is that x-form reset thing. Is there anyway around it?
I've converted destroyed subsystems with no probs.
Shields still crashes the exporter.
Could u possibly add turret FOV and turret normal setup be the same as dock implementation?
MOI (moment of inertia) would also be nice. I'm still using modelview32 to add those settings.
Thanks again for checking up on this thread.
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As I said, tell me how to generate the moment of inertia and I'll add the code to the exporter.
And I need more specifics on the Shield problem.
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I still don't have a good example of a known bad shield chunk, though I've been looking. I've got a model around somewhere with a shield mesh that I have not yet converted but will have to try, but I haven't had time to work on it lately. Give me a few more days, and hopefully I'll be able to give you something.
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Hasthere been a tut done for setting up things such as heirachy, Max equivilant of lights etc. If somone who's familiar with the Max exporter could do a quick 'n' rough one I don't mind writing it up.
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I can give you some ideas on how to aproximate the moment of inertia
the best way would probly be to subdivide the model's overall bounding box into thousands of smaller boxes, then checking each box to see if it is inside the model or not, and if so adding the point effects of that reagon to the total MOI tensor. the components of the MOI tensor are
[
[y^2+z^2, -x*y, -x*z]
[-x*y, x^2+z^2, -y*z]
[-x*z, -y*z, x^2+y^2]
]
if you sum that up for every particle in the object I think you'll get the MOI, or the inverse of it.
here is a bit of info (http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/MomentofInertia.html)
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I believe my issue with the shield is opening the pof in modelview to add MOI settings. Any high poly POF with a shield will not open in modelview. I havent tried it recently with current build of modelview.
The successfully converted shields from the 3dsmax pluggin had a wierd rendering issue. The shield effect would only render on the opposite side. I think there is still a glitch where it would also happen to the hull mesh when hit with lasers.
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you, know if the sheild it's self is high poly you might have over run the limits on it, I think it's a max of 900 polys or maybe verts...
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Originally posted by Styxx
And I need more specifics on the Shield problem.
From what I understand, there's a... vulnerability-enhancement feature that nobody seems to like.
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No, no, and no on the shield problem. I just converted a tetrahedron and looked at the shield chunk output. The vertices are fine. The faces get their normals converted correctly, I think, (I'm not computing those by hand today) but the game treats that ok and even if it were wrong you wouldn't get a crash. Furthermore, because this defines the shield geometry, it shows up fine in editing programs. However, the last little detail, the three neighboring shield faces, is seriously wrong. For my sample tetrahedron, I got the following for the four faces (in decimal, for the sake of clarity):
Face 0: Neighboring faces [5280,5520,0]
Face 1: Neighboring faces [0,0,0]
Face 2: Neighboring faces [0,0,0]
Face 3: Neighboring faces [0,0,0]
Now, obviously 1, 2, and 3 should be something other than all zero, but at least here we're looking at a valid index. Unfortunately, index 5280 from face 0 is not only out of the range of the shield face index, and out of the shield chunk, it is out of the file. Now I could be misinterpreting this, but I think that's the problem.
EDIT: Omni, your "shields always render on the opposite side" is probably one of two things. It could be that your shield mesh is getting inverted. I assume that you are reseting X-form on the shield as well, and that you check it after the fact to make sure it's not inward-facing rather than outward-facing. Alternatively, you could be seeing this neighboring faces bug in a non-crash situation; in the case above, a shield shot on face 1 would cause the edges (all three edges) of the shield-hit animation to render on face 0. Since we've got impact effects and the shield is generally hard to see under the laser anyway, this may make it look like the animation is playing in the wrong place. At least, that's how I think it works.
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See, that's the kind of stuff I need. Will look into it in a few. :)
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Ok, I think I found the bug with the shield face neighbour generation code. Should be fixed, so I'm posting a new version of the plugin - can anyone confirm if it's ok? This new version also has the new way of generating turrets: it no longer uses the object name. Any object can be a turret, as long as the word "gunturret" or "missileturret" is added to its properties field (right-click -> properties, it should be a large text box). This should help with the destroyed subobjects problem too, at least to an extent.
Test it away and let me know if the changes work.
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp/pofexp.rar
The RAR has the plugin for MAX r4, r5 and r6.
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By the way, current MAX files will need to have the word "gunturret" or "missileturret" added to the properties field on the turrets to work. Simply having it on the name won't work anymore.
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Awesome. I'll probably get around to testing the full shields tomorrow, but I'll put it through my tetrahedron test now :)
EDIT: Looks ok on the stupidly simple test case. I'll try exporting a fighter shield and game-testing it tomorrow after work.
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Cool. The more feedback I get, the better the exporter will be. :)
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Okeydokey, I've gotten the MathMeister's professional opinion on it. ;)
Originally PMmed by CP5670
Here is a quick rundown of this thing. A tensor in general is an n-dimensional array of scalars, basically a generalization of vectors and matrices. The moment of inertia tensor though is just a matrix for the purposes here. It essentially describes the angular momentum of an object. If the object is made up of n point masses, with the kth one located at (xk, yk, zk) and having mass mk, then the moment of inertia tensor is defined by this symmetric 3x3 matrix:| åk=1,n mk(yk2 + zk2) |
- åk=1,n mkxkyk |
- åk=1,n mkxkzk |
| - åk=1,n mkxkyk |
åk=1,n mk(xk2 + zk2) |
- åk=1,n mkykzk |
| - åk=1,n mkxkzk |
- åk=1,n mkykzk |
åk=1,n mk(xk2 + yk2) |
This is really just a volume integral of a cross product of the density and position functions, but with discrete point masses and the whole thing fully written out.
This is about the moment of inertia values in the FS2 pofs, right? I think Volition made these by taking all the points to be either just the vertices of the model (not totally accurate since it will only give the MoI tensor of the model, i.e. the outer shell of the ship, but it may work well enough anyway) or some sort of rectangular 3D lattice of points tabulated at regular intervals inside the model. They most likely just made the ships have uniform density and set all the mass values to 1.
(Sorry, I have no idea how to get rid of that big blank space. :sigh:)
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That post had far too much effort put into it. :lol:
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That post had far too much maths put into it. :nervous:
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Shields look ok. Good catch with your fix, Styxx. :)
Other lingering issues: as Omni pointed out, reset X-Form is annoying at best, but since after using it I almost always have to make some tweaks I don't think there's much that can be done about it. Also, the plugin crashes reliably if I try to export from a file that I just opened and haven't yet done anything to. It crashes at other times to, but there is no real consistancy to the rest of the times.
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That post had far too much effort put into it. :lol:
Well, he asked me what a tensor was and how to obtain the MoI tensor. :p It only took about five minutes to write a reply and I was waiting for a download to complete so I needed to kill a bit of time anyway. :D
I guess this exporter is supposed to generate this thing for you?
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i have another problem: paths
i created a line primitive with 4 points in it and connected it to the subsystem/turret. in max it looked ok, but when i converted it the line was in a plane above the object.
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Reset X-form on the line before you group it to the turret. You defined the path in the front or side view, so it thinks it's rotated by 90 degrees.
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now didn't I say basicly the same exact thing?
(I did assume uniform dencity)
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ok, with reset x-form it works, again. but this is getting very annoying if i have to do everything everytime with reset xform. is there a special reason this has to be?
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Well, yes and no. Things don't like being rotated or scaled with this particular exporter, and defining things in certain views is essentially defining them from the top and rotating. It is annoying to say the least, but sadly there's not much way around it. I'd say before you group anything, select all and reset X-form on everything then use the collapse tool to collapse to modifier stack result. If you do it to everything, you can't miss anything.
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thats annoying too, because many parts are then flipped or scaled or rotated, very frustrating!
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Make sure everything is unlinked before you reset anything. It's a lot easier to re-establish the links than to rotate and scale everything back to where it needs to be.
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thats for sure, but if you have to relink 30 multipart turrets and several subsystems with paths thats not really an option.
anyway, i guess i will have to live with it :(
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Ok, I'll be adding MOI support soon, first it may be based on vertices, but later I might discretize the model into a volumetric representation to make it better. And I'll look into a way to fix the Reset X-Form problem... I tried to look into it a bit, but not for too long.
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styxx if you know how to calculate MOI i want you to to dig your hands into the PCS2.x source and implement a MOI calculator
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Originally posted by Bobboau
I can give you some ideas on how to aproximate the moment of inertia
the best way would probly be to subdivide the model's overall bounding box into thousands of smaller boxes, then checking each box to see if it is inside the model or not, and if so adding the point effects of that reagon to the total MOI tensor. the components of the MOI tensor are
[
[y^2+z^2, -x*y, -x*z]
[-x*y, x^2+z^2, -y*z]
[-x*z, -y*z, x^2+y^2]
]
if you sum that up for every particle in the object I think you'll get the MOI, or the inverse of it.
here is a bit of info (http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/MomentofInertia.html)
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feel free to write that bit of code for me :P
i hate physics calculations like that
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well the most dificult part would be to determine wather or not a given point is inside or outside an object, if you think you can get code that can fill this prototype
bool is_in_model(vector*point);
then the MOI function would be relitively easy.
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is there anything new? a new stable version?
this thing is getting me insane on my way to hell where i have to suffer torments of such a great value that nobody can imagine :(:(:(
i beg every day for a new version now. this thing keeps vrashing my max on and on, i delete a simple part of geometry and the exporter crashes, i forgot to spell a letter and the exporter crashes max, i cant go on like this. this costs 20 times the time it would need with a working stable exporter, so please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please DO SOMETHING!
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I_E_Maverick PCS 2.X will have .3ds support
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oh man, i hope this works better. this thing is driving me crazy, everytime there is something different going wrong.
i have tested your last 2 versions of pcs and it loaded all models, good work so far!
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ty :D
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Originally posted by I_E_Maverick
is there anything new? a new stable version?
this thing is getting me insane on my way to hell where i have to suffer torments of such a great value that nobody can imagine :(:(:(
i beg every day for a new version now. this thing keeps vrashing my max on and on, i delete a simple part of geometry and the exporter crashes, i forgot to spell a letter and the exporter crashes max, i cant go on like this. this costs 20 times the time it would need with a working stable exporter, so please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please DO SOMETHING!
Listen, I know you're having trouble with this, but the converter is actually very stable if you are conscious about what you need to do to make it work. I've had very few problems with it and I would hate to see Styxx stop working on it because he percieves us as ungrateful for what has been, overall, a solid and much-needed tool. You want paths to not change when you convert them but don't want to reset X-form on all of them, DON'T USE IT TO MAKE PATHS! There are more important but less blindingly obvious things that still need fixing (I'd like to not have to manually edit certain attributes via a hex editor, for example) that definitely need to take priority over using render coordinates rather than object coordinates to define structures. All of your problems boil down to the reset X-form issue, which as I've said repeatedly can be avoided with a few simple steps and then re-linking everything; providing your naming conventions are sane and you've got a version of Max with a heirarchy editor, this shouldn't be a big deal.
Also, if Kazan is doing 3ds import (which will be much less efficient than Max->POF, simply because the 3ds format is very antiquated), you won't get things like paths, subsystems, etc anyway. So it won't help you with the problems you are actually having.
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you got me wrong, i am not ungrateful, i am sure styxx knows that. i just want some exporter that works more stable, nothing i did could make the exporter work more stable or unstable. there are some problems that are not caused by reset x form.
my last for example: i had a good exporting model, debris subobjects and LODs, all worked fine. then i decided to delete a subobject of detail0 and guess what, since then the exporter crashes max everytime, i tried it 10 or more times without success and i reset x-form and relinking everything 2 times. that means it cant be under any circumstances that reset x form will work.
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Originally posted by I_E_Maverick
you got me wrong, i am not ungrateful, i am sure styxx knows that. i just want some exporter that works more stable, nothing i did could make the exporter work more stable or unstable. there are some problems that are not caused by reset x form.
my last for example: i had a good exporting model, debris subobjects and LODs, all worked fine. then i decided to delete a subobject of detail0 and guess what, since then the exporter crashes max everytime, i tried it 10 or more times without success and i reset x-form and relinking everything 2 times. that means it cant be under any circumstances that reset x form will work.
A post consisting of 30 "pleases" and demanding updates isn't exactly grateful though, so just be more sensitive about that when making feature requests. And to this point, the only thing you've asked about have been reset x-form questions.
And besides, what you're posting now is a real "no duh" error. The first rule of exporting anything from Max with this converter is to always, always, always have a "detail-0" object in the scene. It's stated in this thread multiple times, I'm almost positive it's in the readme, and it's in the sample export file. It will become the root of the POF LOD0, which is fundamentally necessary, and thus won't even pretend to work without it.
EDIT: I'll revise that last paragraph because I missed the detail about it being a subobject. There are a couple of things that you still probably did wrong that triggered this thing to break. Number one, if it was a turret, you broke the chain of turret-xx back when that was still a requirement. Another possibility would be that you broke a heirarchy chain somewhere along the line, which, while possible, is somewhat less likely. I've never had any sort of problems with the heirarchy causing things to crash, so I'd really guess that the problem actually lies in naming or something.
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I'd do .max except for the whole thing about those *******s wanting a license fee
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Agreed, the Max format has a multitude of limitations. My comment on 3ds wasn't a dig at PCS2 in any way, as I view it as a different type of tool than the exporter is, by design and necessity. I'm really looking forward to playing with the editing tools in PCS2. It was I_E_Maverick's idea that PCS2 would render this plugin obsolete that I am debating.
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it could.. how well does 3ds support .lwo?
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Not well AFAIK (the exporter itself is hard enough to find) and even then the support for paths, helpers, etc is minimal. I also think that's where the loss of UV coordinates or textures or whatever comes from. In fact, I haven't seen a format that Max CAN export to that contains more than basic (and often poorly assembled) geometry information. Getting smoothing right, which was always the difficulty with PCS, is perhaps the hardest part as Max seems to handle its smoothgroups in a different way from practically everything else out there.
What is available, from stock Max 5, are the following formats:
3D Studio Object (.3ds)
Adobe Illustrator (.ai)
ASCII Scene Export (.ase)
Lightscape Material (.atr)
Lightscape Blocks (.blk)
Lightscape parameter (.df)
AutoCAD (.dwg & .dxf)
FiLMBOX (.fbx)
Iges (.igs)
Lightscape Layers (.lay)
Lightscape Preparation (.lp)
StereoLitho (.stl)
Lightscape View (.vw)
VRML97 (.wrl)
And that's it. None of those even seems remotely modern either, which isn't exactly suprising since Max is up to 7 or whatever, but that's still about it. Direct from max (in the form of an exporter) really is the superior option right now.
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i use max 6 and there no new file formats neither.
only way to get something to other programs is export to 3ds and then use a third party tool to convert that to another modeling program. that is definatly one of the most annoying things about max since years and even in max 8 i didnt see this fixed so far.
but the 3ds format isnt that bad though it is old. i takes uv coordinates and the geometry is converted well imo. though i dont know how it works with paths or object properties and hierachies which would be neccessary for exporting to pof.
edit: i just forgot to officially apologize my bad post (i see it now) to Styxx. I didnt want to be inpolite or ungrateful, i hope you know that. so sorry for that post!
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Eh, no worries. Fixing the Reset X-Form problem is high on the priority list, but I'm a bit out of time and it may take a while.
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Originally posted by StratComm
What is available, from stock Max 5, are the following formats:
3D Studio Object (.3ds)
Adobe Illustrator (.ai)
ASCII Scene Export (.ase)
Lightscape Material (.atr)
Lightscape Blocks (.blk)
Lightscape parameter (.df)
AutoCAD (.dwg & .dxf)
FiLMBOX (.fbx)
Iges (.igs)
Lightscape Layers (.lay)
Lightscape Preparation (.lp)
StereoLitho (.stl)
Lightscape View (.vw)
VRML97 (.wrl)
7 can export to .obj, though I've never used it myself.
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So no 3ds7? Oh great. #6 POFexporter worked once and then stopped. Why did I get 3ds 7???
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Originally posted by Styxx
Eh, no worries. Fixing the Reset X-Form problem is high on the priority list, but I'm a bit out of time and it may take a while.
ok, more than a month now, anything new maybe?
and i have another problem, no reset x-form this time, i swear :)
is there a polycount maximum for this exporter? cause i have a model with an overall polycount of 30k and it wont export at all. at 1% it kicks max. even when i tried just detail-0 it didnt export.
i really could use a better max exporter ;)
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Did you mention the moment of intertia problem (apparently that's what it is) that means when you kill a big ship it spins around on the spot like a crazy thing as it explodes?
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oh yeah, this is another thing too :)
and my last problem was solved by stratcomm, it was because an object didnt have textures on it.
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Styxx
Styxx
Styxx
Styxx
Styxx
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Moment of Inertia IPAndrews. You need to open the resulting POF with Modelview32 and in put new MOI numbers. Copy the numbers from a retail FS2 ship of similiar scale and mass.
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ModelView - corrupt pofs - low polygon limit.
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Ian you are talk out of ya arse..
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Styxx, got another glitch. It looks like insignia generation has something wrong with it. The points themselves look ok in PCS, but in game the insignia goes all sorts of crazy. If you ever get back into developing this, could you take a look at that?
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There is a version of Modelview with increased limits. I'm able to view my 30K+ Galactica without a hitch. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/fsdoc/index.php?pagename=ModelView%2032
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where is the link for the most current version of this plugin for max?
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In theory it's in the first post. Styxx, you should probably get that to point to the new hlp space before the one on Gamespy disappears forever.
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In theory it's in the first post. Styxx, you should probably get that to point to the new hlp space before the one on Gamespy disappears forever.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I have something to bring to your attention:
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp.zip = www.hard-light.net/3dap/hlp/staff/sticks/pofexp.zip
You can thank Shrike for that one. :drevil:
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cool, thanks
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Ok, I have the latest exporter for 3ds 7 working but there are some... problems besides the reset x thing (heck, I don't even know what that is!) and it didn't come with a new readme. I'm using the early readme but the export options indicate that more points can be added. However I don't know what to name them to export them correctly.
That I can handel but the old readme says: "engines are defined by Dummy helpers called "engine-0" to "engine-N""
I named the dummies correctly, did the points, linked, and some more things but when I export, PCS doesn't see (or read, as a better term) the engines. Though I can easily adapt myself to fix this using coordinates from MAX but doing PCS and MAX at the same time just gobbles up my cpu power and may cause a crash and ruin everything and possible corrupting the POF. So... is there a newer readme out? If not, I just need the names of the Dummies needed to export correctly.
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I believe the thruster glows are just connected to their parent subsystem. No engine-X container, the $engineX subsystem serves that purpose.
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Ok so it would be like this then: Subsystem Dummie $engine0 with points 1-4 linked to the subsystem will add the glow?
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I believe so, yes. So long as the things you're linking to it are dummies themselves.
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Now that slightly confuses me. Dummies themselves, not points? I was thinking this:
Engine Glow Points -> Engine Subsystem Dummy
Are you saying:
Engine Glow Dummies -> Engine Subsystem Dummy
or
Glow points -> Engine Dummy -> Subsystem Dummy
Ummm... jeez, now I'm confusing myself. Um, just write a sort of small hierarch tree that labels the subsystem dummy to whatever is needed. I'm sorry to have you do that but I don't really like experimenting half blind.
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Engine Glow Dummies->Engine Subsystem Dummy. Points aren't used for engines or glowpoints.
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Right. Thanks!
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Styxx, in the next carnation of the 3dsmax pluggin, is htere any chance you could have the $dock exporting process, to include an auto naming? Like have each dock number designation to be automatically entered as its $name entry? I'm making a ship that has over 288 docking points and its a real tedious process to name each and everyone so that Fred ans FSO dont freak out. I know this is a rare feature to have that many docks, but I would find such a thing VERY usefull.
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:wakka:
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Do not mke replies to posts over a month old if you have nothing pertinent to add.
Do not make replies that are only a smilie. It WILL result in your post being deleted.
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...just...ban.
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Ban!? NO!!! That would do this community a great diservice!!
He's a noob in these forums, I encouraged him to join the community. He got more modelling skills in one pinky than all of us. Not to mention he's the dude that got my modelling juices flowing again.
I'll give him a pep talk about the ettiquette of HLP. I must warn u ppl tho, he is of the same model SIR unit from the Irkin Empire as "Gir". Just keep biscuits and headless clowns away from him. :)
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Heh, well, the thread was sticky anyway, so it could have been worse :)
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Ban!? NO!!! That would do this community a great diservice!!
I'll give him a pep talk about the ettiquette of HLP. I must warn u ppl tho, he is of the same model SIR unit from the Irkin Empire as "Gir". Just keep biscuits and headless clowns away from him. :)
Doesn't matter who he is, no special treatment. :p
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Meh, well, look at it this way, there are members of the community now who are starting to make valued contributions who started out on the same lines. I still cringe at some of my early posts (I mentioned the 'Third' :nervous:). I suppose we all have to go through this stage at first.
Personally I'm prepared to let one or two bouts of 'over-eagerness' slip before getting the hammer out ;)
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Eh? I never said anything about banning. :p I'm just saying I'm not gonna stand for pointless spam from anyone. We don't need another cobra, even if he can model like Dark. No special treatment. Period. Rules apply to everyone equally.
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Oh, this thread's still here?
Well, sorry for not checking this. Didn't have any time to work on the exporter lately, and don't know when I'll have any. What are the priorities again? I figured:
- Fix Reset XForm problem
- Fix MOI generation (a bit work-intensive, I may make an approximation)
- Add auto-naming for docks (gotta check this out)
It should be handling any polygon count your system can handle - BSPTree generation is recursive and may take a lot of memory. And I'm not touching that code. I'll disable log generation when I have the time and post a new version, this may be causing some extra troubles with high-poly models.
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/me wishes it could load POFs too.
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Fuggeddeet. :p
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Ok, new versions with rough MOI approximation. I'm sampling only the vertices, assuming a sampling 5000 (!) times the number of vertices. It's generating something that looks like a MOI matrix, but the numbers are stil way too high. Can anyone check it ingame to see how a model behaves?
I don't think I'll be adding a proper volumetric sampler, unless someone points me to very "copiable" code of a method that checks if a point is inside a model (which may not be perfectly closed, which complicates matters a lot). If the numbers are just too high, I can just divide it by something. If they're generally off, we have a bigger problem.
Anyway, the RAR with the new versions is attached.
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I seem to remember that the MOI matrix that's stored in the POF is inverted, though I can't remember where I saw that or if it's even right. That might explain it, if you're getting bigger numbers for bigger ships. I won't have a chance to look at it for another week at least, but I'll get on it as soon as I can.
Also, insignia generation appears to be messed up pretty badly at the moment, though I can't tell if it's Freespace or the converter that's causing that. Again, I can't specify exactly how it's messing up right now but as soon as I can get access to my main PC I will see if I can't put my finger on what it's doing wrong. Seeing as how you're still checking this thread from time to time :)
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Oh, it motivates me so much to have such overwhelming response! I'll need more details about the insignia problem, and at least one model with the XForm conversion problems to check it out.
(by the way, thanks StratComm, the irony obviously wasn't directed at you :p)
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I'll get you exactly what is wrong with the insignia data when I get a chance, I just currently have no access to a model with a bad insignia, Freespace, or 3ds Max to play with. I'll also whip up something that doesn't convert properly because of X-form while I'm at it, but if anyone else has a working example already then they should go ahead and send it your way.
And of course I don't actually think I'm the one getting called out for my lack of response :p
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Oh, it motivates me so much to have such overwhelming response!
Maybe if you had done this before I converted all of my models...
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Is that shield problem fixed?
Even if one could get it to work ingame, weapon hits didn't always register or would hit the inside of the shield on the opposite side after going through it. Is this a problem with reseting the direction of the verticies or something?
Thanks again Styxx for the work you've poured into this. :) ^_^
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What about that model radius problem?
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Oh, it motivates me so much to have such overwhelming response!
Of course man. This plug in is the best thing to happen to the FS community in a long time. The models Maverick and Triv have put together using it for TBP all look fantastic.
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Yeah, I know it's been helping out a lot, I was just joking. It's just that when I get to work on it, I can't find anyone online to try it out right away while I still have the motivation going. :p
Anyway, next on the list is the XForm problem. Then I'll look into the rest of the problems after this one (which seems to be the major problem now) is fixed.
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What exactly is the xform problem? I never seem to have come across this one - at least, not knowingly. :)
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Well, some people say that objects and subobjects come out moved, rotated or misaligned on the POF. It can be fixed by applying a Reset XForm modifier to the objects on MAX and reconverting them to Editable Mesh before converting, but it can be a pain if you have lots of subobjects.
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What about that model radius problem?
That and the MOI are the most important ones. If you can't get the MOI to work properly, fill the matrix wit zeros, as PCS does. Not correct, but at least no weird ship spinning.
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Did you try the version I posted to check the MOI problem? And what's the radius problem?
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The raius of the model comes out twice as larg as the model itself. Dunno what that has to do with what in game, but it's there.
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Just view any model in the lab with the appropriate checked options.
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What about that problem where the center of the ship is moved too far forward? The result is that when warping, a ship will take longer to emerge from the vortex, and then the vortex will close on the back end of the ship. I have to send many of the new or recompiled TBP models to Stratcomm for this fix (done with HEX editor) and the MOI thing. If the MOI thing is now fixed, and if the warping position gets fixed, we can stop having to bug Stratcomm to fix out models for us.
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Well, the center of the ship is always at 0,0,0 on MAX, so all you have to do is center the ship properly on MAX before exporting. I can add a helper for the ship center info, though, if it's needed. It would be relatively easy. Now, the radius problem was really silly, so here's a RAR with updated versions with the radius properly halved. If it's still wrong, let me know, I didn't test it, just divided by two and recompiled everything.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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StratComm is the guy to ask if the radius is correct now, as he's the one who fixed it before.
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If you just divided it by two, it should be close enough to not need tweaking any more. I figured it was something silly. Since this has come up before, most warpin position glitches are a directly related to a bad radius value, and that should be fixed now.
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Your plugin isn't creating any pof files for me. At all. It goes through the steps but no pof is made.
edit: after more testing. it successfully over wrote my horus. But the moloch I'm playing with will not.
edit2: pofexp keeps getting larger, but no pof file generated. now to see if this is because of the model or if it's with all of them
edit3: seems to be only that model. Wish i knew why. o.'.o
edit4: nevermind on that. that model seems to be generally f00ked...
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Can this thread get re-stickied? It's a rather important one, and with search out, it should stay in a visible place.
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Ops, unstuck it by accident. And Raa, if you want me to check it out, send me the model and I'll check the output logs. Gotta be for MAX 5, though.
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No can do. Max 7 here.
Though, mayb if Styxx is a good little boy, a late christmas gift could be max 8 >..>;;
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Well, the center of the ship is always at 0,0,0 on MAX, so all you have to do is center the ship properly on MAX before exporting. I can add a helper for the ship center info, though, if it's needed. It would be relatively easy. Now, the radius problem was really silly, so here's a RAR with updated versions with the radius properly halved. If it's still wrong, let me know, I didn't test it, just divided by two and recompiled everything.
Awsome, thanks mate! ^_^
If we could get a fully working version of this it would just make things so much easier and time conservative. :D
:yes: :yes:
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So, no one has a model with the XForm problem to send over? I'll assume no one is having that problem then. :p
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Its fairly easy to come up with one, I just think Max 5 as a requirement may be a problem for at least a few people. I personally have learned to work around it but I do know how to cause it. Again, wait until I can get to my primary PC and I'll get you something.
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Urg... I buried my 3dsmax 5 ages ago. Will sending u a 3ds file be useless? Perfhaps the POF lof file.
I know this problem comes up when u mirror a mesh. The scaling, and orientation would be ok... but the shading will be reversed in the game. This is a problem corrected only by using reset X-form
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Nah, 3DS won't help. I'll try to get MAX 7 installed, then I can try it out (after compiling a proper version of the plugin for it).
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the max6 plugin works fine for it :nervous:
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Oh. Right then. No need for new versions.
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Has anyone tried the max6 version of the pluggin with 3dsmax 8 yet?
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I had it on my laptop and it seemed to work fine.
Max 8 causes a BSOD on my desktop :wtf:
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Has anyone tried the max6 version of the pluggin with 3dsmax 8 yet?
Works without a hitch.
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Same here, no probs (until now :p )
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Ok, what about testing the latest fixes? The model with the XForm problem can be on MAX 7 format now, by the way.
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I haven't had a chance to fix up a test model yet, but it hasn't slipped my mind. I'll get to it soon.
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Funny, every time I try to start 3DS MAX 5.0 with the exporter, I get a message saying
:mad:DLL <D:\3dsmax\plugins\pofexp.dle> failed to initialize :mad:
WHAT THE HECK!!! :mad2: :mad: :hopping:
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http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26260.0;id=153
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still happening...
What am I doing wrong? again, exact same error.
I must have this plugin!!! I MUST! :D somebody kill Truespace please
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Which version of MAX are you using?
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Which version of MAX are you using?
I think he mentioned using v5.0 somewhere.
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Well, works without a hitch on my MAX 5...
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Did you check about the .dds textures extension?
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Did you check about the .dds textures extension?
What? Max reads DDs on its own... and the game doesn't differentiate between extensions in the pof file.
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Ah, right, I think I know what it is. Will check when I get home after gym tonight.
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Come to think of it, the X-Form problem may have been what was screwing with me most of the time. Though I'm not entire sure what it is, how I did it, or how to fix it...
The docking paths always end up coming out weird for me... I'll try a few things first and see if its me again though.
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Just noticed that the latest plugin is still on the 3dap server. Could one of you admin-types possibly move it to hard-light.net and edit Styxx's original post? I don't know how long it will take the Gamespy folks to realize that we're still occupying their disk space.
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Did you check about the .dds textures extension?
What? Max reads DDs on its own... and the game doesn't differentiate between extensions in the pof file.
Not all versions of Max do. 4.2 doesn't, for example.
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No, but you can get seperate plugins that do that. "Max DDS Plugin" in google works well, but the plugin itself is available directly from NVidia.
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That reminds me, I need to install the dds plugin for photoshop again. :)
I'm gonna reinstall or update max soon and try the old plugin again too.
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I have 3 questions,
how do all you people get MAX? thought it was like 3000- 6000$, thats like insanely priced, and ive tried the trial versions and they arent fully functional, I have Truespace6.6,Milkshape, and Blender.
and the same question goes for photoshop,I have Paintshop pro 10 and it kind of sux.
Milkshape has a nice plug-in for max files, does this plug-in convert models from modelview to max files?
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I have 3 questions,
how do all you people get MAX? thought it was like 3000- 6000$, thats like insanely priced, and ive tried the trial versions and they arent fully functional, I have Truespace6.6,Milkshape, and Blender.
and the same question goes for photoshop,I have Paintshop pro 10 and it kind of sux.
*coughs*
*whistles innocently*
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I actually had a legit copy of one of the very early releases of Max once. No idea where it is now though.
No copy of Max installed atm unfortunately. :(
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Is there any way to set this up so max doesn't close every time it fails? It's driving me absolutely mental at the minute, particularly as I don't have a sodding clue what's going wrong and am trying every possible permutation of hierarchies and model changes.
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Agreed, that error must close max is one of the reasons I'm sticking with PCS.
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This is quite odd, really; the model won't convert normally, but if I collapse big chunks of vertices so it's about 6 polys, then undo back to the original, it does. It seems to me that it is more likely to be something to do with the scene than the plugin, perhaps some form of corruption that's removed when it rolls back changes, but it's truly baffling.
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Have you tried created a new object from it with a boolean intersection? I know that it helps stop PCS stack overflow errors.
Basically create a big box completely surrounding the object in question, then boolean intersection with it.
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Have you tried created a new object from it with a boolean intersection? I know that it helps stop PCS stack overflow errors.
Basically create a big box completely surrounding the object in question, then boolean intersection with it.
Nope, but it seems to convert ok if I convert another (known to be ok) model first, then it.
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Is there any way to set this up so max doesn't close every time it fails? It's driving me absolutely mental at the minute, particularly as I don't have a sodding clue what's going wrong and am trying every possible permutation of hierarchies and model changes.
You act as if I hadn't already tried desperately to fix that particular problem. :p
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I'd love it if this would work correctly (NO MORE TRUESPACE!!!) but it doesn't seem to generate a .pof file. just the three log files. It's a very simple model, basically a glorified sphere (no, i didn't smooth it, it's using 16 sections.)
i'm running a legit copy of 3ds max 8.
any ideas on what to do?
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If you're having this problem, its more than likely your model isnt named correctly, or the hierarchy is wrong. I use it in 3ds 8 and get pofs every time without crashes.
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i MIGHT have found the problem.
does the converter use the material, or just the bitmap?
cause i'm using a material, no bitmap.
is there anyway to convert an applied material into a bitmap?
EDIT: nvm, i think i found it...
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Hey there Turey; I have just downloaded and installed the Demo 3dsMax8. Is there any tutorials like that play and talk and show how to get started with 3dsMax8? I have the pdf tutorial stuff. But I guess I have a problem understanding it. Any help would be appreciated. The demo is only good for 30 days though. :-)
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i MIGHT have found the problem.
does the converter use the material, or just the bitmap?
cause i'm using a material, no bitmap.
is there anyway to convert an applied material into a bitmap?
EDIT: nvm, i think i found it...
Hmm, I know this is ooooold, but you have to use bitmap materials. Procedurals will NOT work. However, if you have achieved an effect that you like and want to use that, then I'd suggest you render to texture, and create a map out of that, once you've finished everything, of course.
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anybody tried this with Max v7 ?
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The max 6 one works with 6, 7 and 8.
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It works, though I could stand it if there were less crashes but hey, I'm 3ds and Maya all the way.
Ehh... I haven't visited this thread in a long time, when was the last version of the exporter released?
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Anyone managed to pick up max 9 and try it with this yet? I'm not getting it until January. :doubt:
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Anyone interested in an auto-LOD-generator for this? I don't know if I can fix the bugs already mentioned (well, I can, but it would take too much time :p), but my whole MsC project is related to model optimization and ways to automaktically reduce level of detail with as little visual loss as possible, once I'm done with my papers and dissertation I can try to plug the code into the converter.
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Wow! Yes yes do so! It would be awesome!
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Anyone interested in an auto-LOD-generator for this? I don't know if I can fix the bugs already mentioned (well, I can, but it would take too much time :p), but my whole MsC project is related to model optimization and ways to automatically reduce level of detail with as little visual loss as possible, once I'm done with my papers and dissertation I can try to plug the code into the converter.
I doubt I'd ever use it, to be honest. :)
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A cob exporter would also be nice :)
I wonder if the smoothing would be preserved.
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A cob exporter would also be nice :)
I wonder if the smoothing would be preserved.
Ummm, I think a) PCS already serves as the cob exporter (and I'd imagine Styxx has never worked with TS exporters before, so it'd be a no go for him), and b) I believe the cob format doesn't preserve information that'd allow smooth groups (albeit not sure about varied angles of smoothing)
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Actually what i meant is a Cob exporter in Max, so you can skip 3ds. Actually if done correctly you could skip truespace even :)
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Styxx, does FS2 insignias run on a different UV coordinate system? I attempted to make a more elaborate insignia mesh broken up into different pieces (but still the same object) placed on different parts of a fighter. Each insigina segment were UV'ed different parts of the same UV space. The conversion to POF creates a mess.
Does anyone know if the insignia system even supports UV coordinates? If its a plane with a texture, it must have UV coordinates.
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There's a polygon limit on the insignia. Each one needs to be no more than something like 8 or 10 polys, but you can have as many of them as you need. Make each insignia piece its own subobject first and try; if that doesn't work then you'll actually have to break them up. At any rate, this is an engine problem, not one with the converter (other than that it doesn't check or warn you in some way).
And the only potential problem with the insignia UV would be it being backwards for some reason. Probably needs to be within the [0,1] range but I don't think that's your problem.
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I have small problem with the exporter. It's easy to set up glowpoints, but they do not show up in-game unless I edit the POF with PCS. (Type, Ontime, everything to "0")
Is there any way I can set all those things up in MAX? Or can somebody send me a *.max file with working glowpoints?
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If there is, I never found it. That's bank based though so it could be worse, at least you no longer have to go in and zero out the normals one by one.
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I've got a problem with this. It doesn't like max 9. I tried both the .dle in the main zip, and the one in the max 6 folder. It gave me this error message for both:
"DLL <C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 9\PlugIns\pofexp.dle> is not made for this version of the program - not loading"
It worked fine with Max 8. Any help?
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9 is significantly different than 8 is. Especially the 64-bit edition.
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And I don't think Styxx has a compiler for Max9, natch :(
:)
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9 is significantly different than 8 is. Especially the 64-bit edition.
And I don't think Styxx has a compiler for Max9, natch :(
:)
So there's no way we're getting a max 9 plugin?
Because Max 8 hates me. I've got a legal license, but when I put it in, it works for a day, then gives me:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Turey/error1.png)
and then:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Turey/error2.png)
I've tried re-installing, but it just does this again a day later. :(
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I would contact Autodesk/alias/whatever theyre called today about that.
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not sure if this things still being developed or not but can we get unlimited heirarchy of subobjects. i find this nessicary for animation stuff.
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Is there a 3d studio max 9 version of the exporter?
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'fraid not.
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Perhaps one of you who can get the max SDK's can try to get the source stuff from Styxx and try to make it work?
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Has anyone else checked the paths generated? Mine look like complete gibberish.
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Paths suffer the same x-form bug that geometry does, except that, more often than not, they get moved more and forgotten more often (plus you don't notice them as quickly). They work, they're just... tricky.
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Paths suffer the same x-form bug that geometry does, except that, more often than not, they get moved more and forgotten more often (plus you don't notice them as quickly). They work, they're just... tricky.
What x-form bug? I never had any problems with geometry beyond vertex numbering, y'see.
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Basically, geometry data gets translated to POF in relative form from the object of which is generated. So if you move, rotate, or scale an object rather than its constituent geometry, what actually gets output will differ from the geometry present in the max scene. It's worst affect is on collision. On paths, it causes the path to export the points in relative coordinates, so if you created the path and then moved it, or scaled it, or rotated it, or anything else that wasn't acting on vertices, then all of that will not convert and only the underlying vertex movements will get exported. The solution is to reset the transforms (reset x-form is how max describes it) of all objects - geometry and support - before you set up the scene hierarchy. I'm shocked you haven't had trouble with this before though.
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Is this why I've always had turrets appear at the center of the model?
Also is there any chance of source code release? Maybe then we can get it to produce more meaningful warning/error messages rather than just killing Max.
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Basically, geometry data gets translated to POF in relative form from the object of which is generated. So if you move, rotate, or scale an object rather than its constituent geometry, what actually gets output will differ from the geometry present in the max scene. It's worst affect is on collision. On paths, it causes the path to export the points in relative coordinates, so if you created the path and then moved it, or scaled it, or rotated it, or anything else that wasn't acting on vertices, then all of that will not convert and only the underlying vertex movements will get exported. The solution is to reset the transforms (reset x-form is how max describes it) of all objects - geometry and support - before you set up the scene hierarchy. I'm shocked you haven't had trouble with this before though.
Oh cock. I notice it doesn't even work with brand new paths.
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I kno this has been asked before... but PLEASE make a 3dsMax9 version of this... I wanna convert my stuff :P
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Has anybody with Max6 managed to successfully export firing pointe of turrets ?
I thought I was doing something wrong, but after checking with Styxx's sample model, I ofund that Max6 doesnt export them for that model either.
Does anybody know why ? The prospect of calculating 50 firing point coords by hand isn't very thrilling.
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I've gotten them to convert before, but I didn't like the results and so went right back to doing them by hand. Though it's been a while, I'm fairly sure they work.
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With Max6 ? The fact that even Styxx's sample didn't export them made me scratch my head.
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Yeah I use max 6 and I know I've gotten them out before. Are you sure they're not getting created or are they getting created at some arbitrarily wrong spot?
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Nothing gets created. The resulting POF doesn't even have any turrets defined. When opening Styxx's example scene, there's a message about obsolete data found. I guess that might explain the loss of data.
EDIT: If you wanna look at the resulting POF yourself, here it is (http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/styxx_example.POF). That's what I get when I export it with all the options checked in the export dialogue.
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Ok im having a slight problem myself, but thats prolly due to ineficiency from my part:
Ive read both the Readme and the Wikki article on this, however, im not getting engine glows to work... ive added the dummies, linked them to the engine subsystem, but do these need to have a "glow-N" name?
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Ok im having a slight problem myself, but thats prolly due to ineficiency from my part:
Ive read both the Readme and the Wikki article on this, however, im not getting engine glows to work... ive added the dummies, linked them to the engine subsystem, but do these need to have a "glow-N" name?
I don't believe so. Have you checked the pof data? Max2Pof creates them at size 0 IIRC, so you won't see them without manual editing.
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Yeah I did... I created th dummys, linked them as child to the engin subsystem, but on modelview, it doesnt have any representations of the thrusters... I MUST b doing something wrg, coz they aint even there, flat out and simple
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Sounds stupid, but is the box checked?
And the example POF is out of date with respect to the turrets IIRC. There were issues with having subsystems containing a dash in their name that were pretty ugly.
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erm... what box is checked?!? :P
Really have no clue about what your talking about lol
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The dialog that pops up with all the check boxes as to what the exporter is supposed to be exporting. Turret data is separate from subobjects.
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oh then ur not talking about my problem :D
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Sorry if this has already been asked/solved, but I installed the plugin into Max 7, and everytime I start I get this error:
"Class <POFExport> from <pofexp.dle> has duplicate ID: not loading. This may be due to a duplicate plugin path."
Ideas?
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i have max 7. will this still work?
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Hey there. I'm back and I have bad news.
Some people contacted me recently asking me to release the source code. I hadn't done so before because the exporter contained code from a project that I hadn't full control over, and I couldn't release the code for that part. Well, that project is over now, and I'm able to release the source code, but I can't find it. I had a few HD crashes a while ago, but I thought that everything had been backed up properly, so I hadn't worried about it before. But now I went to look for the code to make it available, and couldn't find it. I still have all the POF writing code - a simple project that loads a POF file and re-writes it - but I think I lost all the actual MAX plugin code. The MAX part is quite simple, actually, the hardest part is writing the POF itself, so I may get it all together again soon. But if anyone knows MAX programming and wants to give it a try, I can release the POF writing code itself.
Sucks, yeah, I know. I'm still hoping that I have copies of it on some other hard drive, but I'm not keeping my hopes up. :(
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If you need a copy of the Max6 SDK let me know. I have the SDK for Max2.5 somewhere as well, if you are curious. Sorry to hear about your troubles. Thanks for the plug-ins!
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Hey there. I'm back and I have bad news.
Some people contacted me recently asking me to release the source code. I hadn't done so before because the exporter contained code from a project that I hadn't full control over, and I couldn't release the code for that part. Well, that project is over now, and I'm able to release the source code, but I can't find it.
That's bad. :(
so I may get it all together again soon. But if anyone knows MAX programming and wants to give it a try, I can release the POF writing code itself.
And that's good. :)
Many players do not realize it, but all modders know. Tools are the key. The key to modding, total conversions, techical tests. If it takes forever to convert something, you won't test new things, that might not even work. Without the great tools we have, FS2 would be already dead. Especially the MAX plugin, as it allows some of the pros, to just convert their models, without much effort.
If I had to place all glowpoints for the lights in teh SoL city in PCS, I would have gone mad already. ;) (No offense to PCS, I use it just as often. Both tools have certain strong points.)
Why did I write this? Uhm... I don't know. I just wated you to know how much importance I see in your work. ;)
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one quick question:
how did voliton make their .pofs?
and a statement:
maybe you could contact them and find out.
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You know it would be kinda nice to move away from POF formats to something more handleable, but then that would release awhole 'nother buttload of problems. :shaking:
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Ok, so I've just decided, I'll start working on a new plugin for MAX 8 tonight. If anyone has any ideas to complement the plugin, feel free to start talking. Also, if anyone posted an idea earlier in this thread, please post it again, as I won't be going through the whole thread again. Thanks!
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make it autosave just before conversion.
i usually remember to save before i try, but an autosave would be pretty nice.
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I don't think that an exporter plugin has access to save the actual MAX scene...
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One small thing I would like to see is using groups for lod levels and subsystems. Their much easier to handle than linking. Example, you can hide lod groups.
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Oh no... no groups! I don't want to run into even more X-Form problems.
The linking is the proper way to do this.
All I like to have, is a better error report. Some kind of message, or log file, that tells you why your mesh didn't convert.
I won't even ask for MOI... ;)
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Oh no... no groups! I don't want to run into even more X-Form problems.
The linking is the proper way to do this.
All I like to have, is a better error report. Some kind of message, or log file, that tells you why your mesh didn't convert.
I won't even ask for MOI... ;)
Ok how do you hide/unhide/freeze with links then? I just get a huge list of subobjects i'd rather not deal with.
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"hide unselected"?
Also.. what exactly would be different with groups for this issue?
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Group LOD or entire turret, close it, name it.
Select it hide it and vola... select which lod you want to unhide... vola..
also if you move something, if the group is closed, you move everything not just the children, but not parents.
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You need a heirachy for the game. You'd have to set it up even if you were able to use groups.
So all this would do, is causing more work and potentially more errors.
I really don't think this would be useful, if it is possible at all.
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Groups can have heirachy too, in fact thats how I do it.
LOD 0
└ Turret 1
└ Barrels
└ Turret 2
└ Barrels
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that sucks that you lost your source. id have liked to get my hands on it. anyway one thing i absolutely must have in the new version is complex hierarchy support. for the purpose of complex submodel animations and scripted submodel animation. pcs is fairly good at generating complex hierarchy, but considering max is my primary tool theese days and format hopping usually results in more problems, i would really like that capability. my common hierarcjhy configureations include the 3 or 4 part gatling turret, your standard turret heirarchy with a third level under the barrel model, which contains the rotating barrel assebally for the gatling gun (or two for dual gatlings). the other less commone groupings i used are the 7 segment swing wings on the phoenix and the rather complicated hanger door on the rumrunner. i want to do more and will as the tools permit.
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Er, unless I'm mistaken, the current exporter already keeps any hierarchy set on the MAX file... It's been a while since I actually used or worked on it, though.
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Maybe a format exporter that PCS2 can import? All you would need to do is generate a certain format (POFMAX for example), export the MAX data to that format. Then have a PCS2 importer that'll read POFMAX and let PCS do all the dirty work :D
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Maybe a format exporter that PCS2 can import? All you would need to do is generate a certain format (POFMAX for example), export the MAX data to that format. Then have a PCS2 importer that'll read POFMAX and let PCS do all the dirty work :D
You can already do that. Export as 3DS and use 3DExploration to convert it to COB. :p
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HAHAHAH :D
however, you could keep smoothing values too. Plus keep the heirachy.
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format hopping has a way of raping your models to death. making them buggy and loose somewhat important data, such as smoothing or uv. as for .3ds format, ive seen it shread more models than takashi, and thats saying something. half the time it only works for single objects, the format has countless versions, so a 3ds saved from truespace 6 wont load in max at all and 3ds files from max wont load in truespace at all. id go as far as saying its worse than cob.
actually it occurred to me that it may be the xform bug which was making my heirarchy come out wrong. so i reset the xform on everything and the problem still remains. as you can see in max and the results in modelview, and this is after applying reset xform to every object in the scene. i actually thought i had fixed it, but my hierarchy was wrong with the gatling models were siblings, rather than children to the barrels. i probibly set it up like that to test something else in the model. anyway after reconfiguring the hierarchy properly it still gave me crap. then i stripped out every option accept for turrets, still nothing.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I didn't imply 3ds, because it most definetely sucks. Especially the version that max 7 exports, it's limited to 8.3 filename WTF?! I was thinking more home-brewed, unless someone gets a MAX imported for PCS2 (as soon as I win the lottery :lol: )
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Well, having the insignia thingy work would b cool ^^
And yeah, gotta agree on that hierarchy thingy as well
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format hopping has a way of raping your models to death. making them buggy and loose somewhat important data, such as smoothing or uv. as for .3ds format, ive seen it shread more models than takashi, and thats saying something. half the time it only works for single objects, the format has countless versions, so a 3ds saved from truespace 6 wont load in max at all and 3ds files from max wont load in truespace at all. id go as far as saying its worse than cob.
actually it occurred to me that it may be the xform bug which was making my heirarchy come out wrong. so i reset the xform on everything and the problem still remains. as you can see in max and the results in modelview, and this is after applying reset xform to every object in the scene. i actually thought i had fixed it, but my hierarchy was wrong with the gatling models were siblings, rather than children to the barrels. i probibly set it up like that to test something else in the model. anyway after reconfiguring the hierarchy properly it still gave me crap. then i stripped out every option accept for turrets, still nothing.
X-From shouldn't have to do anything with the heirachy.
You simply can't use it on linked or grouped object. So you have to x-form is before you start linking stuff.
Also... don't link it to rotated dummies. Check the pivots.
I had a lot of problems with this too, but in the end, I had to blame myself for it. ;)
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the pivots seem to be where theyre supposed to be. actually there distance from the center of the ship is about the same as they should be from the turret center. i think whats happening is that it seems to be inherenting the parent's offset, but not its grandparents offset (the actual turret base).
i also took anything identifying them as turrets out of the model, the points and renamed the models. that didnt seem to help either. i quadruple checked all my pivots, there all dead center the way i had set them up. just keep giving me ideas im sure something will work :D
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Heres another thingy that could be implemented: Viewpoints
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Just to make it clear, there's no way I'll be working on a MAX to PCS bridge. It's MAX to POF, and that's it. Load the POF in PCS and edit it there if that's what you want. ;)
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Heres another thingy that could be implemented: Viewpoints
Yepp, I think that's handy.
Maybe it might be even possible to use a camera for this.
@Styxx
I have another suggestion. I know the MOI generation is complex. Could you make the MOI setable for the user?
Maybe by adding it to the export window?
There is currently no way to change the MOI of ships that have too many polies for Modelview.
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That explains why MView crashes on me wherever I try to set the MOI for the XXXXXXX :P
In that case, what DaBrain says ^^
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Yeah, I'll make it possible to set the MOI somewhere in the MAX scene, that was on the list since way back when I first started working on the exporter. :)
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what about adding a bunch of max gizmos for different freespace data that are to be included in the scene (like gunbanks gunpoints with normals and stuff like that)? rather than just using dummys for everything (which gets confusing after awhile).
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That would require a different plugin. I can look into it, but they'll be just extensions of the dummy helpers, so it wouldn't be much of a difference apart from the name anyway. This is for after everything is working again, though, so it'll be dummies for a good while still.
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one quick question:
how did voliton make their .pofs?
and a statement:
maybe you could contact them and find out.
They had a stand-alone converter. It's not worth digging up, as it was designed for FS2 Retail, and won't be as good as the PCS converter or this plugin.
Oh, and shouldn't you know how they did it? You DID work for them after all... :rolleyes:
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i told the truth at game warden. im a total embelisher (makes things seem better). it was a job shadow. and what a fun one....wish they told me the multipliers for max velocity and max OCLK speed....
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Multiple mapping channels. I know there will have to be engine side support for this too, but once we get shaders, we could really need at least one additional mapping channel.
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hI,
I am 3DS max9, the plugins not works :(...
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Uhm hi i come to ask for a old problemes about dll failed to initialize i have use pof export in max 5 with no any prob.
recently got a bad virus need format C.
after reinstaling system and max 5 i got this problemes now and dont remember me so how many thing is installed on my comp before got this error probably 3dsmax 7 vertion or 8 installed and deltree again or true space 7 really dont know but update to max 5.1 the prob is still not here.
if any know the issue for correct this really tks.
i have read 1 to 32 not found.
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man, this kinda died off sometime in april.
any progress at all?
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I thought this died off way before that. I don't think anyone's done updating on this plugin in a long time, and I think this thread only exists for support and a place to get it.
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Out of curiosity, will this plugin work for 3DS Max 8 or 9?
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Out of curiosity, will this plugin work for 3DS Max 8 or 9?
Yes for 8, no for 9.
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Dang Turey, you beat me to it.
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I thought this died off way before that. I don't think anyone's done updating on this plugin in a long time, and I think this thread only exists for support and a place to get it.
Uhm... Styxx is working on a new version, just give him some time.
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Oh, my bad then. Keep up the good work Styxx!
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being a total newb to the FS2 SCP, and not yet familiar with the acronyms, could anyone tell me what PCS stands for?
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POF Constructor Suite
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Maybe a format exporter that PCS2 can import? All you would need to do is generate a certain format (POFMAX for example), export the MAX data to that format. Then have a PCS2 importer that'll read POFMAX and let PCS do all the dirty work :D
You can already do that. Export as 3DS and use 3DExploration to convert it to COB. :p
I do not know about you, but I would really like to see this plug-in work for Maya. I don't use 3DS (yet), I use Maya. With Windows Vista out (which I use), it's been very difficult to convert any models from Maya to 3DS just to export them with the POF exporter. Additionally, now that FS2 is working with normal mapping (and not bump mapping), surface sampling is insanely easier on Maya. I believe the only alternative in 3DS was to use ZBrush. And quite frankly, because Maya and 3DS have different orientations (Y in Maya = Z in 3DS), it's easy to promote a problem. Finally, now that normal mapping is being used in FS2, hardware rendering (which can show normal mapping results in real time without having to render) in Maya further promote the interest to have the plug-in work in Maya. But that's just my 2 cents.
Oh, and one more thing. SCP should seriously consider upgrading the render engine from Normal mapping to Parallax mapping at the least (I would even suggest Steep Parallax Mapping). http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/index.html I say this because there's now a new mapping tech out called Vertex mapping, which from what I understand, provides the same results found in Steep Parallax Mapping while using 90% less resources which would normally be used in Steep Parallax Mapping.
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Maybe a format exporter that PCS2 can import? All you would need to do is generate a certain format (POFMAX for example), export the MAX data to that format. Then have a PCS2 importer that'll read POFMAX and let PCS do all the dirty work :D
You can already do that. Export as 3DS and use 3DExploration to convert it to COB. :p
I do not know about you, but I would really like to see this plug-in work for Maya. I don't use 3DS (yet), I use Maya. With Windows Vista out (which I use), it's been very difficult to convert any models from Maya to 3DS just to export them with the POF exporter. Additionally, now that FS2 is working with normal mapping (and not bump mapping), surface sampling is insanely easier on Maya. I believe the only alternative in 3DS was to use ZBrush. And quite frankly, because Maya and 3DS have different orientations (Y in Maya = Z in 3DS), it's easy to promote a problem. Finally, now that normal mapping is being used in FS2, hardware rendering (which can show normal mapping results in real time without having to render) in Maya further promote the interest to have the plug-in work in Maya. But that's just my 2 cents.
Oh, and one more thing. SCP should seriously consider upgrading the render engine from Normal mapping to Parallax mapping at the least (I would even suggest Steep Parallax Mapping). http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/index.html I say this because there's now a new mapping tech out called Vertex mapping, which from what I understand, provides the same results found in Steep Parallax Mapping while using 90% less resources which would normally be used in Steep Parallax Mapping.
FS_SCP doesn't even support bumpmaps, not to speak of normal maps!
Currently, the engine currently undergoes a deep overhaul. Direct3D will be probably ditched, and a more efficient OpenGL code will be implemented. - that will be in the 3.9.1x series.
By 3.7 the main new graphical feature will be a material system, a possibly shader support.
Right now the engine has 4 maps/textures applied to a surface:
-Base/Diffuse map (since glow maps can be turned off, it is recommended, to draw self-lit areas in the base map as if way they were unlit, so lights, etc. will look as if they were switched off.
-Glow map: when the glow map is turned on, the parts on it will be always full bright.
-Shine map: the map tells the color and intensity of white light reflected/glinted from the surface. (Can be used to give a rough/smooth, metalic, plastic etc. feel to the surface, and acts as a rudimentary bumpmap).
-Environment map: reflectivity of the surface.
Preferred format is 32-bit DDS with mipmaps pregenerated.
How these render passes will be implemented in the material system I don't know, however it holds the promise
of a more streamlined and efficient rendering.
PS.: PCS2 (POF Constructor Suit 2) would eventually support an intermediate format with Max and Maya. More details in the relevant thread.
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FS_SCP doesn't even support bumpmaps, not to speak of normal maps!
No comment. :nervous:
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Nice. For the record, i'm learning how to use 3DS Max 9.
How long does it usually take to use it efficiently? How long did you guys use it before you started pumping out ships and models that are of the quality we see now?
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Nice. For the record, i'm learning how to use 3DS Max 9.
How long does it usually take to use it efficiently? How long did you guys use it before you started pumping out ships and models that are of the quality we see now?
Hate to burst your bubble, but this plugin only works with Max 4-8. I have both 8 and 9, and it never worked with 9.
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Nice. For the record, i'm learning how to use 3DS Max 9.
How long does it usually take to use it efficiently? How long did you guys use it before you started pumping out ships and models that are of the quality we see now?
Hate to burst your bubble, but this plugin only works with Max 4-8. I have both 8 and 9, and it never worked with 9.
So I wont be able to create FS2 SCP models with 3DS Max 9 at all?
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Nice. For the record, i'm learning how to use 3DS Max 9.
How long does it usually take to use it efficiently? How long did you guys use it before you started pumping out ships and models that are of the quality we see now?
Hate to burst your bubble, but this plugin only works with Max 4-8. I have both 8 and 9, and it never worked with 9.
So I wont be able to create FS2 SCP models with 3DS Max 9 at all?
I can do little but share my experiences with Max 9 and FS2 modeling. Since the plugin works only with previous versions with max, I converted my stuff to .3ds so I could place all the lights and stuff with truespace. This caused some kind of texture problems for me and I needed to use a third program (like 3d exploration or LU) to fix these texture problems. Maybe there's a different format I could have used to export my model.... I don't know.
The problem I then had with TS was that the smoothing values would get all messed up. I then threw up my hands and switched to Max 8 and have been very very happy. I haven't encountered anything I could do in 9 that I couldn't do in 8. The plugin works (not perfectly every time for me) beautifully for me (when it does), and I much prefer it to using TS and doing PCS conversion.
edit: BTW, I know I'm not the most experienced modeler by any stretch of the imagination, but due to the extensive tutorials that are bundled with every version of Max, it only took me a week to really start to feel comfortable.
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Thanks for the tip fellas, managed to refund the program and get 3DS Max 8 :D
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Have fun with it then! Hope it was even cheaper for you!
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Just to let you guys know, I'm still working on the plugin, but rebuilding the lost code is a pain. :p
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keep up the good work. and this time keep a few backups :D
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Not to be critical but I hope this new version doesn't crash 3ds as much. Good luck on the new plug in!
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the best is of works with 3DS 8 and plugins? or PCS2? or Model View?
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Which is better, Max or Maya?
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Dude, that's really not what this topic is for. You'd have been better off starting a new thread.
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Sorry.
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Oi! I just stole me a copy of Max 9. I'm assuming its fairly new. Is this the plugin for POFs that Styxx is still working on?
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It doesn't work with Max 9 yet.
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It doesn't work with Max 9 yet.
I gathered as much. but it will soon, ya?
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More like Soon™.
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Oi! I just stole me a copy of Max 9.
Great minds think alike. Mine isn't exactly stolen, but I didn't pay for it.
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Great Minds would have known to grab max 8 for now, since you still can't convert with max 9...
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If great minds think so damn the same, why are two of them better than one? Give me a genius and a moron over two geniuses any day.
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wow, silly me. Here I was thinking 9 was a higher number than 8, so that must mean that 9 would some how be better than 8.
I guess not.
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I'm sure in many ways it is better. It's so much better, in fact, that this plugin isn't good enough for it. It's like the boy down in the boondocks, or the maintenance man wanting his high maintenance woman, but he can't have her, or...ok that's probably enough.
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it means it has more animation features, a better fur shader and a new and incompatable plugin format :D
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The old exporter is beginning to drive me crazy, I can't even export a ship with subobjects without it crashing 11 out of 12 tries. And even then the subobjects don't show up later.
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Has anybody managed to get the plugin to work with 3DS MAX 4 not version 4.2?
:( :( :(
All I get is the DLL plugin failed error message.
Look at attachment to see what I mean.
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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Would it be possible to add maya support mainly maya 7?
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Has anybody managed to get the plugin to work with 3DS MAX 4 not version 4.2?
[attachment deleted by ninja]
Nope, it only works with versions 5, 6 and 7 (and 8 if you're lucky).
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it works fine in max 8.
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the plug in always crash with my 3dsmax8 :/
Models that use to be exported with my 3dsmax7 ans the plugin in the past doesn't seems to work at all now,
That's strange because the sample work very fine even with 3dsmax8
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Apologies to Styxx - but I can finally say once and for all: this should not be being used, it produces bad models and PCS2 cannot clean up the problems with them.
I invite Styxx to write a .3ds importer for PCS2 (Easy) or a .PMF exporter for 3DS
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I kind of like the second option. It's probably easier than a pof exporter.
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I kind of like the second option. It's probably easier than a pof exporter.
writing new file support for PCS2 is a lot easier than PCS1
PCS2 only does POF conversion in one place: when saving to POF - it's internal format is PMF (Which is easy to work with and simple) unlike PCS1 which internally used POF.
so either way he'd be doing a conversion between .3ds data structures and PMF ones.
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Ok, heres the question of the day:
Why use .3ds as the means to "communicate" between Max and PCS? 3ds is a bad format nowadays (normal\smooth groups\UV problems)
Why not use .obj? Its more stable, more common (meaning that something like this in PCS allows for Maya, Blender, etc users to import their models without recurring to another software)?
I may have said an horrid blasphemy (lemme know if I did), but seems to me the better option
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afaik .obj doesn't support hierarchy
bob is apparently going to add .obj support for PCS2.1
styxx could just make a .pmf exporter plugin - it supports everything needed as it is PCS2's internal format
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afaik .obj doesn't support hierarchy
bob is apparently going to add .obj support for PCS2.1
I think it does, im not sure though.
Ive never used PCS2 (infact only done POF work twice with the max exporter, and things didnt go so well), but Im under the impression that you can do all the hierarchy job in PCS2, correct?
If so, assuming .obj doesnt have hierarchy, with an .obj importer we could jsut import the models and then work all the POF details in PCS. Like I said, dont know how PCS works on that field so once again I could be saying a load of crap :P
However, the point remains: 3ds is a very bad cross-software format, and .obj is one of the best if not the best. Also, there seems to be appearing more and more Max users (and Ive spotted a Maya user around as well), so we really need something like this.
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PCS2 can edit just about anything... in later versions it will even be able to do some minor geometry editing for your tweaking needs
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In that case I believe that an obj importer would be the best option, given PCS2 friendly interface. And that way you hav less risk of having mesh\UV\smooth group errors, while at the same time supporting a bigger number of apps
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Don't forget the growing number of Blender users. If VA ever finishes the Blender tuts he's been working on that number could grow even more as it becomes easier to do FS modeling in Blender.
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Just found this while looking around as well, from the OBJ exporter for Sketchup notes:
Support for object hierarchy. The OBJ output now supports a flat set membership
hierarchy, meaning that the format understands which objects belong to any set.
It is important to note that it does not support a tree hierarchy meaning it doesn't
know if one particular set is actually a component part of another set. This
limitation is a limitation of the OBJ format itself.
Full text at http://download.sketchup.com/downloads/downloads/plugins/ObjReadMe.pdf (http://download.sketchup.com/downloads/downloads/plugins/ObjReadMe.pdf)
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tree is what is needed for FS2 object hierarchy
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Yup, that's what I figured it meant. Just thought I'd post it to clear it up for anyone else who wasn't sure yet.
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while its good to have a full function pof editor for tweaking pofs, i like to do as little post conversion tweaking as possible. the max converter is really good at streamlining workflow.
the other thing that the max converter does really well is smoothing. not that it will be relevant as normal mapping gets adopted, assuming you use the two model technique. on the other hand you can get away with using 2d methods to generate normal maps if your smoothing is perfect and your model has a relatively high polycount.
the pmf exporter sounds like the best idea, so long as it can do everything the max exporter can do, using the same conventions for model setup that were used in the exporter. might want to work out some really good specs on the format, so exporters for various modeling programs may be written. every modeling program has some form of scripting support. good specs would mean people who prefer program x or program y, all have the option of creating an exporter to get the models into pmf.
id be willing to try other formats, but the bottom line is max is now my modeling program of choice. using yet another converter to go from max to cob will just shred up your model more than the max converter would (as would truespace's crappy 3ds import). truespace isnt exactly the best program for cleaning up bad models. truespace isnt even suited to hierarchy setup, one just has to use the max schematic view to realize how crappy truespace's heirarchy tools are. i can do with max's hierarchy tools in minutes that which would take hours to do in truespace.
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here's your specs http://alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/alliance/pcs2/pcs_file.h?revision=1.41&view=markup
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Is there anything for someone who doesn't speak code? I mean, any exporter/importer for that format might not have to be written in C. Having a written definition of the format would really help a lot of people better understand it I think. Hopefully that's in the works for some point down the line?
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at least its in c++. reading freespace's code is an order of magnitude more difficult. still im more interested in the data structure, not the way that structure is read and stored. the most complicated file handeling code ive written is by compairison very suckey, it parses a model format that looks like this:
vertdefs
-0.00000 15.00000 0.00000
16.00000 -0.50000 32.50000
-16.00000 -0.50000 32.50000
16.00000 -15.00000 -32.50000
-16.00000 -15.00000 -32.50000
-44.00000 10.00000 -32.50000
-60.00000 -3.00000 -13.00000
-65.00000 -3.00000 -32.50000
44.00000 10.00000 -32.50000
60.00000 -3.00000 -13.00000
65.00000 -3.00000 -32.50000
-0.00000 15.00000 -32.50000
end
linedefs
0 1
0 2
1 2
0 11
1 3
2 4
3 4
3 11
4 11
0 5
5 11
0 8
8 11
5 7
8 10
4 7
3 10
6 7
9 10
5 6
8 9
4 6
3 9
1 9
2 6
end
and thats a cobra mk3 :D
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I've read on the wiki that when you use max exporter , the moi get wrong with it, can't it be fixed by loading the pof freshly created with pcs2 for recalculation?
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i usually find a similar ship and use its moi, but the moi calculator on pcs2 seems to work ok. as of now i convert with the max plugin and tweak with pcs 2. small tweaks, as good as it is i want to do as little in pcs2 as possible. like if im scripting a feature and i need to add 2 polygons to a ship, this approach is very useful, and very fast.
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ok that's what i use to do , i've replace an old model that i use to convert one year ago , same size, same moi and same mass and exactly same table entry but the physics response ingame is quite different for the two models, i ll dig it up some more :D
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on the wiki, it says that :
"The converter miscalculates the radius of the model by approximately a factor of 2"
So is it the reason why when i try to shoot at my ship, i have almost no collision and can't touch it?
If the answer is yes so i still wonder, to correct it should i multiply by 2 or divide by 2 the models radius?
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you should
A) not use the MAX plugin, ever
B) see if PCS2 can clean it up (just open it and save it back out)
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i know i should use pcs2 but even if i convert from 3ds to truespace and then pcs , i got stl error because of the max->.3ds convertion, i m not sure that this way is better.. :confused:
i've open and resave with pcs and then edit the moi with pcs2 and save
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nobody should be using PCS1 anymore, nobody should be using modelview, nobody should be using segeltuch, nobody should using aurora, nobody should be using cob2fs2, nobody should be using the max exporter.
PCS2 has the best model compiler out there hands down.
MAX->.cob->truespace cleanup->.cob->PCS2->.pof
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Actually MAX doesn't support *.cob. And *.3ds has a vertxpoint limit.
You loose all the nice helper feature the MAX exporter had.
*.3ds support for PCS2 would be nice, but not a real solution. A better format to get all the addional informations (custom properties, glowpoint postions, gunpoints) is needed.
For now I can export the model from MAX too, to be at least able to import the glowpoints into PCS2...
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DaBrain: either write a .PMF export plugin, or i can give you developer access to PCS2 since it just went release and you can start writing .max support for PCS2.1 :D
though.. bobboau is planning on .obj support
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Is ASE support still planned for PCS2.1 ?
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so long as it's not made redundant by .obj
.ASE is the ASCII Version of .max/.3ds
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Newbie question, sorry, the pof exporter for 3DS Max, I only have v4, I cant get the service pack to make it 4.2 anymore.
Any way, everything crashes from a model I have in max when I export to pof using the maxtopof export tool for 4. I think it is because it was designed for 4.2 but not sure. I wondered if I needed to rename everything to specific items. I divided them up by layers in Rhino and named them with decriptions 16 characters or less long, I can export to 3ds and import to 3ds with Rhino, but max hoses those object layer names on import. Honestly I find max pretty crude as a modeling tool with the 4.0 version, really clumsy and obtuse. Rhino runs awsome and is very intuitive I'm just trying to find a reasonable format for import/export.
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don't use this script. it is absolete. use pcs2.
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http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,52098.0.html
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its only obsolete if you're a newb, i still prefer the max plugin over pcs2 for conversion. im still not gonna say that one converter replaces the other at this point. 3rd party export formats for any modeling program are poorly implemented at best and even if you managed to find a good one you would still suffer data loss. somone write a pmf exporter that works EXACTLY like the pof exporter and il be a happy camper.
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Contrary to Kazan's propaganda, Styxx's plugin is still useful. It's still the only way to get proper smooth groups into the game.
It may produce collision detection problems SOMETIMES, but so far PCS2 managed to fix all of them.
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It may produce collision detection problems SOMETIMES, but so far PCS2 managed to fix all of them.
the bottom line is that you still need pcs2.
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and it has the same main problem as pcs1, insufficient import capability. i should be able to save a file from any modeling program using its own native import/export features and convert it in pcs without a 3rd party utility to convert it to death (where the madel data gets stripped out section by section). pcs is ok for a 2 step convert, but the max converter takes 1 step and is therefor a better choice if you use max. if you use max as a model converter where you take a model, import it to max and then convert it youre gonna have problems, but if youre ship is max modeled and in a .max file then you wont have a problem with it (save for the crashes you get when you fail to convert to poly/name things wrong).
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look, about 70% of the htl ships have collision problems. why? because they used the max exporter.
either use pcs2 to convert it or resave in pcs2.
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i find that funny because most people go the cob route anyway and use other modeling programs besides max. the 70% of those collision problems come from excessive exporting/importing.
say sombody starts a model in truespace 4, they finish it right, then they hate the uv tools and export it to another program like blender and add uv data. or pass it on to another team member for the uv map. so now you got a ship in blender, uv mapped and good to go, but wait you need hierarchy, so you go back to truespace and import it and set up the hierarchy. but alas in the confusion of file format hopping, you lost your uv data. sad. so you send it back to blender for a re-uv map, thus loosing the hierarchy. after finally getting it back to cob format in a convertible state, you convert, get it into game and find that there are collision holes all over the place.
the best way to gain full control over what goes into your model is by doing the whole model start to finish in one program. your output is only as good as your input (and the code doing the conversion). in other words crap in, crap out. modeling formats are proprietary for the most part, they have several versions of those formats under the same extension, and the developers of various 3d packages really aren't obligated to supporting 3rd party formats anyway, so they half ass the effort of implementation. i do look forwart to seeing what format support gets added to pcs2, but i absolutely refuse to use a 3rd application between max and pcs2.
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Errm, I used to go blend>dxf>cob>lum>cob>pof. Never had any sort of collision mesh error that wasn't a mistake on my part or a now known bug in early PCS1 versions. ;)
Far more common it's bad modelling practices that cause errors - I hardly think it's the export and import processes that just randomly 'corrupt' data like that. Certainly you can lose bits like smoothgroups, UV data, hierarchy, material names, get all your faces disconnected, face normals inverted etc - some of which can go on to cause errors later in the process, but other than that the data that goes in is what comes out.
Heck as I'm sure you know, most model formats just store the data as vert and face lists one way or another. There's not a lot to get mysteriously corrupted in that.
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I used to make planes in Combat Flight Simulator.
That was a fun process using ABACUS not nearly this complicated.
I Have Rhinocerous, but the help pages for making FS2 models is gone.
Unfortunate because Rhino is so easy to model in for me.
I also have 3DS Max 4,
but it is not very easy to model in and the command structure is more from an engineering standpoint than a design one in such an old build.
So far skinning the models would seem to be the toughest part, just getting a mesh unwrapped to begin.
It would seem I have to select every single mesh triangle?
I tried LithUnwrap and everything unwrapped over itself on the page.
I couldn't select the individual points to move them around so I gave up there.
It would seem I have to map a light to every part as well before I can UV Map the ship?
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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Errm, I used to go blend>dxf>cob>lum>cob>pof. Never had any sort of collision mesh error that wasn't a mistake on my part or a now known bug in early PCS1 versions. ;)
Far more common it's bad modelling practices that cause errors - I hardly think it's the export and import processes that just randomly 'corrupt' data like that. Certainly you can lose bits like smoothgroups, UV data, hierarchy, material names, get all your faces disconnected, face normals inverted etc - some of which can go on to cause errors later in the process, but other than that the data that goes in is what comes out.
Heck as I'm sure you know, most model formats just store the data as vert and face lists one way or another. There's not a lot to get mysteriously corrupted in that.
you seem to have some luck it seems. i would never do it that way, due to my experiences with model conversion. but the rest of what you say is accurate, bad modeling is the prime reason for collision errors. but you see i view over conversion as bad modeling practice. if you can get it to work, good for you (same as how i managed to make decent models purely in truespace, such an accomplishment :D ).
but anyway my main complaint is that people are being told that the max plugin is totally useless, obsolete, total crap or whatever. i think it still has its place in modding. a skilled max user can still manage to make and export a model with it and have perfect collision detection.
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but anyway my main complaint is that people are being told that the max plugin is totally useless, obsolete, total crap or whatever. i think it still has its place in modding. a skilled max user can still manage to make and export a model with it and have perfect collision detection.
That is true. :)
However, there appears to be some aspect of the conversion process that if done/not done will result in horrible collision errors all over the model.
One of the things I've done for the next VP set is to look for collision errors in every HTL model in the package. Of the models converted using the POF Exporter all of Stratcomm, Firecrack and Taristins (except the Sobek) conversions were totally solid. However every single one that Galemp has converted has had massive collision errors somewhere on it that go beyond the occasional geometry error in the model. I've fixed all of them now, but whatever he did/didn't do is still unknown and can cause problems for others.
Is there anything you know of in the process that could affect that?
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im not really sure. the usual suspects are micropolies, duplicate points, holes, non-flat polies, polies with too many points, and some issues parsing the scientific notation used in very large or very small numbers in ascii formats (ive only seen that happen once). im not really sure about how the process for generating the collision trees works.
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Here is my oppinion:
Max modeling and first stage export is absolute. Cob converting from 3ds. or obj is inefficient and corruption prone. I model, UV, rig, and set up my model in max. Export as POF then use PCS2 to clean up, optimize, and solidify the process and save and there, good model to go. The 3DS exporter is still an extremely viable option to me as it reduces the needed steps and programs a great deal. The collision problems happen rarely but when they do happen a re-export and loading up the rigging from the older POF will fix the problem. Simple, fast, efficient, and easy. No dealing with truespace, blender, or anything. Only Max and PCS2, no other.
MAX->PCS2->Working POF hands down.
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thats about the way i see things. that said i wouldnt mind having a pmf exporter that works exactly like the current exporter, then let pcs build all the bsp and collision trees.
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I'd still rather see a collada importer, assuming that most collada exporters for other programs actually work properly and can export all the necessary data. _If_ that's true, then only one importer needs to be written instead of a dozen pmf exporters. I'm sure there's room for both though.
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Is it possible to use the SDK from Rhinoceros to make a POF Exporter?
I can download the SDK tonight, I have Visual Studio 2005 to try and compile it with?
Please let me know if this is possible, I wish to make the export work with Rhinocerous 3.0 :D
I just like the software much better than Max to work with modeling.
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I tried RHINO at school, it looked pretty cool. I can't afford 600$+ though, so Blender it is.
And also, Blender can do anything the rest can, its interface even looks suspiciously similar to that of Lightwave.
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Oh I agree to some extent. I have a valid license so I am trying to utilize the tools at hand.
Also I run Rhino like a lazer through butter. I just find McNeels implementation well thought out from a designers perspective, extremely intuitive :D
The mouse controls for right and left click work visual zoom and pan perspectives while I work, it has a command line to type if I dont have the shortcut memorized, the commands make sense from a CAD perspective, and it is freaking fast to model in.
Not to mention $600 beats the livng dog doo doo out of $4g's for the secret squirrel society format of Max ( I hate Max in case you didnt notice ) :p
I can double click the upper left of any window to maximize or minimize back and forth to viewport views. The free renderer is its only shortcoming but not as important as the nuts and bolts of designing a great model. The texture wrapping is lacking, I can't map on texture sheet by locations but I can however export unwrapped surfaces to a wmf for creating textures to paint shop pro 7 with. And the menus make sense! Max is downright masochistically obtuse on its best day if it ever had one.
With Rhino, If I am trying to even guess what type of command logic word I want, the command line gives me a list of commands popping up matching the letters I type. As a progressive learning tool I have yet to see a better implementation from any CAD/Modeling platform. Autodesk has become a bully dinosaur with its interface development. Possibly by sheer Bureaucracy in spite of its diligent employees.
I get an overall vibe that Marketing rather than its customer base is driving budgets/deadlines/development, & implementations far too much in their organization for the last 4 years. On going issues with productivity have been sidelined for complex verticals that flat out cause nothing but a massive training & formatting investment cost to do the same thing they always have. The greatest innovations have been by free user forums outside of Autodesk's (ignore and hope they forget) forums. Cadalyst being the extreme exception to the overall pall Autodesks half-a$$ed product line has introduced to its loyal subscribers.
Also the Rhino implementation of robotic automation from dxf import/export is flat out a 5th of the cost of any other platform around. As a designer, I found it the best budget conscious real world application for complex design prototyping.
Of course Pro-E is the main workhorse for the really big manufacturers out there, but the little guy trying to create a new market? Rhino paid for my career reputation and budget deadlines a 100 times over.
I'm not associated with the company whatsoever, just things I have discovered over the last 20 years in a CAD based career.
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To answer your initial question then, I'm sure it's possible to make a POF exporter for it, but it would have to be from scratch probably. As an alternative, if Rhino has good Collada support, that might be an option. There is a project to add Collada support to PCS2, so you could just save as Collada and then import it into PCS2, and do the conversion there. If you were going to put any resources into a converter, I'd suggest looking into it. It was mentioned on the HLP front page.
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Thanks Chief, I'll read into it a bit so I can get a good understanding of the file type advantages.
I was wondering if it was going to be something I would have to do from scratch or just another mere SDK conversion.
I appreciate the follow up :D
Please realize, I'm just stating my own interface preferences with a bit of background.
I know most modelers out there have their favorite platforms due to their overall experience and training.
Truth be told I was in a position where I was forced to try and learn Rhino, the first week was tough because I had years of AutoCAD so the initial approach had me feeling like a fish out of water. But Rhino was much easier for me to adopt.
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I have Blender now (still learning it) and I was wondering if there was already an existing pof to blender (whatever the format is) converter.
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You can use PCS2 to open POFs and save them as COBs that Blender can directly open using the cob import script here: http://www.sectorgame.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/truespace_import.py
And you can save COBs that you can convert straight to POF through PCS2 with Water's modified export script here: http://www.sectorgame.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/truespace_FS2_Hierarchy-export.py
Both scripts go in your Blender2.46\.blender\scripts folder. The exporter has a few requirements, but the main ones you'll need to remember are:
1) Apply scale and rotation for all your objects by selecting them all in object mode and pressing Ctrl+A->apply.
2) Select all the parts you want to export, with the main hull object as your 'active' (brighter pink outline) object. To do that, you can just select all, deselect the main hull and then reselect it.
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oh. ok. thanks! Well, I've been looking at some blender tutorials, and it looks like it could actually be pretty fun! =D I look forward to testing my skills!
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I'll have to check these out when I get home tonight.
I'm trying to figure out my turret component groups yet before exporting.
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How do I get them t work? D: I was making a design for a shivan ship (on paper) and ended up with a terran fighter that I want to make :/ And I really would LOVE to make it, but I can't import it without the scripts. I have the scripts but I don't know how to use them... Help?
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Put the appropriate file in your max/plugins folder then you should bew able to save as a .pof in the "export" diaglogue IIRC, anyone know if a max932bit plugin is anywhere?
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No, you'll probably need to figure out the Collada method. There isn't a detailed guide for it yet on Max unfortunately, but there's a few people around who have gotten it to work.
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Hi there!
My name's Geoff, and I'm sort of with the Diaspora project.
I'm currently tasked with updating the POF exporter for 3ds max (9,2008 & 2009), and developing a PMF exporter.
So far I've got an extremely buggy, but exporting, version of the POF exporter for max 2009 working.
The reason I'm posting this is not to ask for testers, but to let you know that I'm working on these exporters and to let the community have a chance to be a part of the evolution of this tool, as there would not be any point in doing this if it was not to be used.
I will be starting my own thread on this, but when its more stable and a lot more bug free :D
cheers for taking the time to read this
Geoff
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Great news! I'm guessing it will function very closely to the existing one and the wiki article on Styxx's converter (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Styxx%27s_POF_Conversion_plugin_for_3D_Studio_Max) about it will still apply?
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Awesome Jifman!
Good luck with it!
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Yeah the new versions of the POF export will function excatly like the old one, as im using styxx's code as the baseis of the new one.
right now im updating the code to create a working version....
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It is really good news!! keep it up!! :D
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Bit late in response, but Geoff, you've got my (*and a lot more peoples) support :yes:
Keep us posted.
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yep, im always looking for better ways to get models from max to pcs2 without using a long model-raping dev pipeline.
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Any possibility of a max9 exporter?
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Any possibility of a max9 exporter?
try this:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,63643.0.html
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Eagerly anticipating the script update. :) I've got a few models I'd like to get converted.
Also, getting a Not Found error on the link in the first post.
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i got 3ds max 9... how can i help?
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I know its been a while since the last post, but I'd like to throw in my moral support for anyone working on a Max 9/10 exporter, it would be something truly worthwhile!
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Collada works ok right now to go from Max 9+ to the special PCS2 builds that support it.
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Does max need a plugin to export to collada?
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To work with PCS2 yes. You need the ColladaMax plugin.
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The OpenCollada is currently broken with pcs2.
Read here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67805.0
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So what is working right now for Max?
Collada with PCS2?
I actually got things working with Rhinocerous and some other aps for a bit.
But it was arduous as frak.
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May I suggest an updated Max-to-pof sticky. With links to the special builds and plugins required :)
As i'm a bit out of the loop.
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I second it :D
I was starting to get the model making itch again and wanted to get my tool box in order before committing to anything.
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just a note to those not following the other threads: Collada Support has been merged into the official PCS2 repository and all official builds from now on will include support.
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May I suggest an updated Max-to-pof sticky. With links to the special builds and plugins required :)
As i'm a bit out of the loop.
I third this, especially as I have the possibility of getting a modeller involved in the community if I play my cards right.
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There is, and has been since day 1 of the collada support, a Collada wiki (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Collada_Importer) page that covers exactly that. It's still pretty current, the latest links are all in Spicious' signature which is all over this forum currently. I'll be updating the Wiki once I've figured out what's still needed.
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Anything for Max 2012 or 2013?
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Anything for Max 2012 or 2013?
The OpenCollada dae exporter (http://opencollada.org/) works just fine in Max 2012, but apparently not in 2013.
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Now is working on Max 2013 also, i´m using it without problems.
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It works with 2014 as well. But you'll have to move COLLADAMaxNew.dle to autodesk/3ds max 2014/plugins manually.
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Good to know, thanks !