[SuperCoolAl]

There's only one way to settle this I say!

*opens FRED*

edit- *downloads FRED* 

[NGTM-1R]

There's nothing superior about an SRed, especially in comparison to the Sobek and Deimos V/TSlash.  The Rakshasa, a cruiser, has more firepower in it's primary guns than the Moloch.

They have comparable refire, and as I've noted several times when one of the GTVA ships engages a Moloch, the Moloch's design maximizes the problems inherent to slash-type weapons. Namely, because it tends to be thin, most of a slash shot's time will be spent shooting off into space instead of carving a line in the Moloch's hull. A Deimos engaging a Moloch with its forward guns, approaching from amidships on the Moloch, will do an average of 1% hull damage per beam salvo to its opponent. This drops when they engage from any other angle. The SReds will do an average of 3% hull damage per beam shot, 5-7% per salvo if more then one bears on the target, to a Deimos.

It's sad but true that a Leviathan is capable of damaging a Moloch more substantially, more quickly, then a Deimos is. There's a mission in Cleaning Crew which I spent a lot of time testing that demonstrated these facts. A Leviathan's SGreen, because it will expend all its energy against the target rather then mostly against vacuum, will do 3-5% hull damage to a Moloch per shot.

[SuperCoolAl]

The Deimos won. With 78% integrity left.

http://www.rapidsharing.com/4b3f728af45c33c755a8afa59f181b3c

[CP5670]

The Deimos is better than the Sobek because of its piranha launchers, which make it significantly more effective against fighters. I think they are fairly comparable otherwise (both are vulnerable to attack from certain angles). The Moloch is a far cry from either one.

I guess the Iceni is not really considered to be a corvette?

[Petrarch of the VBB]

It needs some sort of mgreen instead of those silly slashers though...

I agree.
In fact, I once went through the ships and weapons tbls, changing the weapons loadouts on all ships to something more suitable. My MGreen was esssentially just TerSlash, made non-slashy. And with a slightly slower refire rate.

[Kosh]

I guess the Iceni is not really considered to be a corvette?

It's more of a pocket-destroyer. It has (IIRC) 4 BGreens which can punch a big hole almost anything. It's armor is in between a corvette and a destroyer.

The Deimos won. With 78% integrity left

Try changing the Deimos beams to SGreens, and then re-play that mission. I am really curious what the results would be.

[Mars]

Just to clarify:

• The TerSlash does 321 sustained damage per second.
• The SRed does 145 sustained damage per second
• The LTerSlash does 149 sustained damage per second
• The SGreen does 61 sustained damage per second

So unless the TerSlash really is less than half as accurate as the SRed, the TerSlash is far more effective, also the Deimos is armed with four of them, rather than the Moloch's three.
The SGreen is really horrible, doing less than 1/5 of the damage of the TerSlash, so a Deimos would need to be armed with 20 of them to have the same potential fire-power.

There is no doubt that the Sobek can take out the Deimos, or that the Sobek or the Deimos can take out the Moloch, I've tested every situation I can think of and it just comes out that, try it yourself, after about 50 repeats of the same test, with 20 different tests, you'll agree.

[NGTM-1R]

Ah, but you see, basing your numbers on sustained damage-per-second and soforth denies operational realities. Slash beams truly come into their own only against targets of destroyer scale or larger; against smaller craft they will inveitably expend something between one-third and nine-tenths of the shot against empty space. (Nothing is more depressing then seeing a friendly Deimos slash a shot vertically across the spar section of an Aeolus. It has practically no effect.) A Deimos' slash sweep length is, approximately, from end-to-end of the superstructure of an Arcadia, perhaps slightly less. A Moloch along its longest axis when approached from any angle is three-fifths that, or less. Thus with an absolute optimal hit against a Moloch, starting at the tip of the bow and slashing along back to the tip of the launch deck/engine cowling, you're getting dangerously close to that "half as accurate" figure cited.

[Mars]

As I said the TerSlash would actually need to be half as accurate as the SRed to do the same damage - it isn't. Even if it was the Deimos has four of them, as opposed to the Molochs three. Also it is not damage-as-second, it is sustained damage a second, there is a big difference.

[Eightball]

Deimos - just darn good-looking.

It is my favorite ship in the game.  I weep for every one lost in battle.   

Wouldn't it having non-slashing beams make it pretty uber?

[neo_hermes]

I thought the Iceni was a Command Frigate or at least a Heavy Frigate.

[WeatherOp]

I confer with ngtm1r, I tested it out a few weeks ago, and got about what I expected, on a head on approach a Moloch will turn a Deimos into pudding, but as they go into the circle of death things change, the Moloch will rarely get to fire more then one beam cannon, while the Deimos will fire two. So, the Deimos will slowly cut down the hull of the Moloch.

But, that is the thing, very slowly, due to the slash beams as ngtm1r pointed out, it takes a good while to bring it down. But, if a Moloch is at a slanted slightly up position, staying still it can beat a Deimos fairly easily, that is unless it gets a luck shot on one of the beam cannons.

[Descenter]

For some reason I always liked the Sobek, because it reminded me of something out of Babylon 5.

[karajorma]

I confer with ngtm1r, I tested it out a few weeks ago, and got about what I expected, on a head on approach a Moloch will turn a Deimos into pudding, but as they go into the circle of death things change, the Moloch will rarely get to fire more then one beam cannon, while the Deimos will fire two. So, the Deimos will slowly cut down the hull of the Moloch.

If you're entering the circle of death then you're not fighting either ship properly.

[Mars]

I find the Deimos usually ends up disabling some of the Moloch's beam cannons before it succombs. The circle of death is just fine- it's called toe-to-toe, it's how capital ships attack each other, because they usually can't broadside.

In the end, corvettes shouldn't usually duke it out with eachother anyway, bombers are typically the deciding factor, and bombers are what the Deimos handles best. The argument is not "which is a better battle-ship" the question is "which is a better warship", the actual power of the Deimos as a battle-ship is, as you say, debatable. However when you get down to it, it is but one facet of the warship, and this discussion is begining to veer off topic. Just decide for yourself how good the Deimos is at its various tasks, then vote.

[karajorma]

The circle of death is lazy FREDding on most occassions. It's certainly not how the captain of the ship would fight it. Especially in the case of a ship with it's beam weapons in front.

[Mars]

*Sigh*
Are you saying that all cap-ship battles should take place at maximum distance with both ships facing each other? If so , that would give an unfair advantage to offensive designs like the Rakshasa and Ravana, granted: war is not fair, but if all battles proceed the same way, that would suggest extremely poor strategy on the COs part. If not, what exactly are you saying, (plain as possible please, I'm as tired as hell)

[Ferret]

I'm biased because the Moloch is my favourite FS ship.

[Polpolion]

I made a special deimos with 500000 HP, instead of the 4 slashers, there is 4 SPECgreens ( just like BFGreens, but with faster firing rate), 4 AAA2's (100 damage every few miliseconds). It killed a Moloch and 2 fighter wings with 97% hull integrity left. Then it killed a demon with 90% integrity left.

[Mars]

Somehow I don't think that counts.