Author Topic: Shivan homeworld  (Read 20948 times)

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Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
The Universal Laws of the whole Universe:
Laws of physics = organic matter can't stand high temperatures and radiation.... just can't

And I say again...crap...


Read this...

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F1EDD-B48A-1E90-8EA5809EC5880000
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Offline TopAce

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If there is(was) word about starcraft earlier, I would tell some words about Imperium Galactica 2(a hungarian game, YEAH! :) )
I think they are Kra'hens, just has red ships. Even their Cain(or Lilith) is similiar to the Kra'hen destroyer. The Lucifer is similiar to their battleship, too.

I just want to say what I had said earlier, they are moving to galaxy to galaxy to destroy everything.
But there is now several obstacles in our galaxy:

1. Alpha 1
2. Who wants to make a game, where humans are sure to be extinguished or enslaved?
3. !I have forgotten!

As I think, Shivan-controlled worlds(planets) encircle our galaxy, allowing them to 'customise' their route, where they want to attack from.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2003, 12:57:11 pm by 1079 »
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
All advanced metals don't exist in nature... They were man-made...


So? What has that got to do with the price of fish?

I'm talking about genetically modified creatures which are therefore also man-made.
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Offline LtNarol

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Quote
Originally posted by Charmande
Read this...

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F1EDD-B48A-1E90-8EA5809EC5880000
Interesting article... an evil twin out there somewhere... hmm... :p

 

Offline TrashMan

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This MIGHT be true is the universe really is infinite (which we don't know..).
And who said there is only one "twin" galaxy.... Why not 100?
Ever watched Star Trek TNG, where Enterprises out of millions of dimensions started popping up everywhere?...
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Offline Sesquipedalian

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A few things to be said about this article:

1)  It is brilliant.  This man is certainly an extremely intelligent physicist.

2) Level I and Level II are based on what is actually a very speculative interpretation of inconclusive data (read carefully the second paragraph of the "What Does Occam Say?" subsection at the end).  This means that they have the possibility of being true, but such talk is unwise at so early a stage: more conclusive evidence is needed before a valid discussion along such lines can even begin.

3) There is a very urgent need to define what exactly the word "real" means in this discussion.  In the case of Level III parallel universes, if we are able to interact with another of them, then that other is actually not "other" at all, but part of this actualised possibility.  But to call parallel universes which are totally inaccessible to us "real" is to strip the word of any meaning whatsoever in this context.  Level III universes cannot, from our perspective (Tegmark uses the term "frog's persepctive"), be called "real."  They are simply alternate possibilities that might have been and aren't.

4) This leads into the greatest problem in the article: the assumption that we can at any point leave the "frog's persepctive" and gain the "bird's perspective."  Even while doing our pure mathematics, we are still doing them from within the situation of our own particular possibility.  We cannot escape it.  The Level IV discussion, therefore is based on a deeply, deeply flawed assumption and cannot be trusted.

So as I said, this man is a brilliant physicist, and on the bulk of what he has to say I can only read and learn in silence.  I am in no position to correct him on that, and wouldn't presume to (although I will wait for more solid evidence before buying into the idea that the universe is uniformly filled with matter).  But with this usage of the word "real" and the problem of a "bird's perspective" he has wandered out of physics and into philosophical territory, and I must point out the errors.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2003, 06:23:53 am by 448 »
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Offline Noise

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And to think, this forum initially started out as what Shivan world might look like.:confused:
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Offline mikhael

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I'm telling you, its a low grav arboreal world. Lots of trees, where multiple limbs are an evolutionary advantage. They're nocturnal by nature, hence the multiple, shining eyes. They're arthropods of signifigant size, hence the lower grav world.

Its easy. ;)
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Offline LtNarol

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While I agree with low-grav, I'm edging towards a small and unstable planet, little atmosphere and thus high levels or solar radiation.  Small and unstable because the two pretty much go hand in hand when it comes to low-grav, unstable could also mean that shivans might perhaps be sub-terainean, the radiation on the other hand would account for their need for armor, to block X-rays.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Offline Black Wolf

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Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
http://www.[I]interplay[/I].com/freespace/shivans.html


Well - I'm convinced.

Well, actually I am - I don;t like the idea of a Shivan homeworld, a space borne lifeform fits more to my liking, or maybe some kind of nebula based Asteroid Field or planetary collision site. Zero G, atmospheric (after a fashion), mineral rich, plus probably warmer than the void of space and possibly active enough to generate chemical reactions - not ideal for life, but not impossible.

NB - the Shivans could simply be wearing armour and armed with Plasma cannons - They aren't neccesarily a part of their anatomy - after all - Terran Marines wouldn;t be born with armour, nir with machine guns grafted to their hands. Also, if they are a part of their anatomy, don;t discount the possibility that these were not deliberately put there, grafted into the skin after birth.
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Offline tEAbAG

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They ain't natural.  They didn't evolve they were created.  By what and why, I haven't a clue.
If happiness is a warm gun and love is a battlefield, why should we give peace a chance?

C-130 rollin' down the strip
hits a rock and start to tip
its all right, its OK
full of soldiers anyway

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Offline Knight Templar

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Offline StratComm

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Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
:rolleyes:

http://www.interplay.com/freespace/shivans.html


Good lord, that page is still running?

I would have thought interplay would have deleted it from their servers long ago...
who needs a signature? ;)
It's not much of an excuse for a website, but my stuff can be found here

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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Flaser

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Trashman don't take me seriously, but you should take out trash rather than dump it here.

Biology versus technology

Sandwich already came up with the spiderweb analogy.
Biology in most regards exeeds what technology is capable of. Think of the birds' bones. You simply can't create anything that has so good weight/strengh ratio.
Staying at bones - bones are, as earlier mentioned, partly inorganic in their structure. However bones are so superb that they provide fantastic connection for muscules - which are far more efficent than any known motor on Earth.
This may all seem good and ect., but I guess I still wouldn't convince you.

Well to tell one thing there is no such thing as organic matter or inorganic. The vis vitalis idead was abandoned long ago.
What set a "living" being aside from "dead" matter is the existence of metabolism - so viruses are quite dead!

A number of metabolisms are possible. Water is only necessary because it's our only known solvant that maked most of the chemical reactions possible. Other things can fill in that gap as well. *say liquid iron, at high temperatures heavier elements can come into play* - but let's stay close to our frog.

Even your own metabolism uses heavier elements like iron and copper. It's far from being impossible that an animal could develop an organ that would transfer some blood into his hide, where the hemoglobin would slowly decompose and leave a shell of iron.

However that would be far from your good 'ol knights shiny armor.

There are complexes in the body that contain metal in key points.
Some of the hormones are actually like that.
If a complex is created with high quantities of metal you can have an organic armor.

However metal armor is not necesserily as good as other materials:
Why don't cops wear metal armors?
Because kevlar's actually stronger!
Plastics made today are better than alloys made earlier.
And plastics are quite close to some of the materials that nature makes. *after all they are made from alkans*

Let's drop biology and return to Shivan armor:

They could simply use cybernetic implants, and graft an armor over their bodies when they need it. - In a way it is the Shivan, but still a suit.

Same goes for plasma gun.

Let's go back to biology, bioships:

Creating a ship that's an actual creature could be superior in several ways - I doubt however that the Shivans would be their ships - but it would need a horrendous ammount of genetic manipulation and experimentation.
If they found a space adopted lifeform however....
But it looks like the Shivans did not.
That does not take care of bioship. We were talking about the ships as if they were animals - plants are living too.
You could grow a ship - we are back at stage 1. Not too probable.
But you could grow parts for it. An organic component would "repair" itself, resist more usage and could develop on its own. However it would have different tolerances - but don't assume life can't live in outer space. Life needs water - but water won't freeze if you keep it warm, and if it's a part of a ship it can be kept in a better environment.
Such bio-part ships would be useable by humans as well.

As for advanced metals I say an organism can be improoved and can be forced to grow around and across certain structures - an armour plate for instance; if you reject all forms of advanced metabolism.

About Shivan homeworld:

The Shivans could have a homeworld - or I say should have had - but obviously they spent some of their evolution in space and by now they are a space-race that lives in zero-g, and probably uses gene-manipulation and cybernetic implants as well.

So it's also up to debate how much current Shivans resemble their ancestors.

So their planet doesn't even has to be low-g or radiated.

About those Shivans were made issuies - it's more than likely they forged their own image, and "made" their own children.
I doubt they would be messengers of another race, because if so they should have shown minimal sign of communication.

As for their affinity to subspace I had a theory long ago, that I first proposed on VWBB:
Subspace is another set of dimensions paralell to our reality, but it's folded up. It only unwraps where gravity pulls it apart, but it's still so folded that it doesn't affect out daily life (except for laundry, where is that purple sock of mine?:lol: ), but is undfolded enough, to be arranged for entry. Once a ship entered subspace its no longer in our reality.
That's why inrasystem jumps are much easier, and why you always seem to end up near a planet - and explains the existence of nodes as well. Places where gravity maintins a subspace tunnel between the stars *so inside a system you have a subspace sphere*.
I've gone a little further - in subspace light and radiation can get traped, and in a tunnel it forms rings. These ring can both frame the tunnel or collapse it.

Each time a ship passes through subspace it dumps energy into it.
So terrans and vasudans are another couple of pyromaniac in a powder filled barrel!

Ever noticed how dim Shivan engines are - that's the reason. They tone down energy emission.
They travel extensivly in subspace - even if they're not nomads, which I'm inlined to believe, if not totaly, then in the sense, that they are vanderers of the universe. So anyone else violating it is threatening them.

I doubt there's a single Shivan planet. But they may have shipyards and installations. Heck it is possible that they had those, but now most of that's lost, because they've been declining ever since they conquered most of the galaxy, and now it's lost tech.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2003, 08:26:46 pm by 997 »
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Offline tEAbAG

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I don't think the shivans conquered anything.  If they were out for conquest they could have easily achived it at the end of FS2.
If happiness is a warm gun and love is a battlefield, why should we give peace a chance?

C-130 rollin' down the strip
hits a rock and start to tip
its all right, its OK
full of soldiers anyway

I think we should go Mung his dead grandma. - anOn

 
sheit...

flaser, you hit most of what I was just thinking :(
I want to father\mother your children, btw.
oh well.  homeworld.  vasudans had a homeworld, look at what happened to it.  maybe they'll rebuild it, maybe not, whatever.

on the topic of biology.  I failed the last semester, but it isn't at all unlikely that skin cells (the stratum something or other) can be forged with some (in)organic compound.  I recall reading somewhere that scientists have or are working on modifying bacteria to secrete some inorganic compound for use somewhere.  
[EDIT] You all need to watch or read Andromeda Strain :nod:

on the topic of technology vs. biology:
the human brain vs. the human athlon\pentium processor???
which would you want? :rolleyes:
even if we could (we might be able to some day) jack an XP 9000 Supar l33b Edition into our skulls, it certainly couldn't do what the brain does in massive amounts.  it might be able to assist with some things, with what I have no idea at the moment.

who knows, the borg were like us at some point, as pointed out by the queen (alice kreig, *shudder*) in First Contact.  Suppose the Shivans were similar to us?  suppose their "homeworld" was like earth?  suppose they underwent a massive technological and philosophical revolution?  
the advances of technology are closely linked with advances in philosophy and changes in society.  look at the invention of the atomic bomb.  for the first time in recorded history, we were able to annihilate incredible numbers of people with relative ease and look where the world is today! :shaking:
(hell, look at MTV)
[EDIT] Yes, I saw that episode, it was called "parallels"...loved it to death... The Oberth class science vessel is so under-represented :(
poor little thing...

I for one want to see a campaign where Alpha wing is disabled by a shivan cruiser, docked with, and assimilated into the shivan "collective(?)"
complete with hall change and everything! :D

something else, I don't know, I'm gonna go grab another coke.

Bob
(six years ago, I used to think l33t was "bbt")
« Last Edit: May 25, 2003, 12:03:00 pm by 1120 »
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Offline mikhael

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Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
Well - I'm convinced.

Well, actually I am - I don;t like the idea of a Shivan homeworld, a space borne lifeform fits more to my liking, or maybe some kind of nebula based Asteroid Field or planetary collision site. Zero G, atmospheric (after a fashion), mineral rich, plus probably warmer than the void of space and possibly active enough to generate chemical reactions - not ideal for life, but not impossible.

NB - the Shivans could simply be wearing armour and armed with Plasma cannons - They aren't neccesarily a part of their anatomy - after all - Terran Marines wouldn;t be born with armour, nir with machine guns grafted to their hands. Also, if they are a part of their anatomy, don;t discount the possibility that these were not deliberately put there, grafted into the skin after birth.


I'm not. What do you need a concept of 'balance' for in ziggy? The page that Sandwich referenced stated pretty explicitly that the arms are needed for balance. The arrangement of limbs suggests to me a climbing species.
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Offline Flaser

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Balance is not resticted to planets with considerable gravity.
In space just beacuse things are weightless doesn't mean you loose mass.
It is space where balance matters the most - without a good balance - and limbs to balance yourself - you'd be trashing around wildy in a frentic sery of twist, bends, yaws and smashes.
You need to control your momentum and larger limbs are good for that because they can reach far and creata considerable twist.
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline aldo_14

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Shivans do seem to have 360 degree 'coverage' with their limbs, so they'd obviously be good at controlling themselves off stuff in weightlessness.  although they have sort of big front legs, which I reckon means they have those for running - i.e. on land - and the rest is evolved for living in space.

Of course, odds are that the Shivans look like that cos it's cool.  Or something.  I'd be a bit wary about assigning more meaning to their design than the 'big cool scary thing a bit like a xenomorph' principle I like so much :D