Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Andreas on December 24, 2004, 08:54:33 am
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Couple of questions and observations from the Hallfight cutscene in FS1.
First of all, doesn't the music that plays when the marines enter the freighter sound exactly like the music from Fallout (like in caves and somesuch). And what sort of weaponry are they using? I would expect to see plasma guns or something like that, but they appear to be using just some advanced assault rifles, with bullets?
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they are probably using some sort of mass-driver type gun(bullets propelled by magnetic fields).
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probaby so but that gun that they carry with two hands shouldnt it be something extra powerful? i mean it took down a shivan
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Well there is another thread about this where someone suggested that the guns may have been toned down to avoid any damage to the freighter. The thread is here, if you want to have a look. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,28769.0.html)
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The guns that they're holding actually look like some of the guns out of the ship techroom. ML-16s, or something.
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oh my god YES! now i remember! i read somewhere(i believe its the now dead VWBB) that that big gun was standard issue to heavy tac squads...
whats the firepower of those lasers?
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(http://www.volition-inc.com/fs/images/weaponry/ml-16.jpg)
GTW ML-16
GTW ML-16 Argon laser weapon; uses transparent ceramic technology in order to create an optical system that is extremely durable and stable under battle conditions; provides adequate destructive damage to the hull of enemy ships by vaporizing molecular bonds at the target area and destabilizing molecular bonds across the grain of the hull material.
Hallfight;
(http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/cutscenes/air0369.jpg)
(http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/cutscenes/hal0378.jpg)
Other;
(http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/species/tsm0003.jpg)
(http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/species/tpm0003.jpg)
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Originally posted by Pilot Of The US
they are probably using some sort of mass-driver type gun(bullets propelled by magnetic fields).
anyone who has actually built a gauss projectile launcher knows that they are hellishly inneffietient, heavy, and quite bulky. they are probibly using some advanced caseless ammo. caseless ammo is the way to go, you dont have to deal with the trouble of ejecting brass. so you can have your fire rate up in the 1000 rpm range (more than adequit in an assault rifle) caseless ronds would probibly use some advanced solid propelant that takes up less space than smokless powder and is oxydised for use in zero atmosphere environments. ammo would probibly be supplied from an helical clip that can hold about 50-100 rounds (depending on calibur). speaking of calibur, in space it would probibly be better to use a larger one, seeing as there is no drag to slow your muzzel velocity. it an atmosphere smaller rounds tend to do more damage cause they cut through the air better and thus have a better muzzel velocity.
lets see you use your gauss rifle in an emp storm :D
*edit* damn them uniforms look like something out of red faction :D
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The middle picture looks a bit like an ML-16. But the bottom one looks a lot like the Prometheus.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
The middle picture looks a bit like an ML-16. But the bottom one looks a lot like the Prometheus.
?
(http://www.volition-inc.com/fs/images/weaponry/prometheus.jpg)
The 2nd piccy - the marine render - the gun has a vastly different barrel to the ML-16 though. The gun itself is a fair bit different to the cutscene one, too; wonder why.........
(http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/species/tsm0001.jpg)
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It can't be an ML-16! A single shot of it can take down a Shivan! At least I guess so.
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Depends how much of the firepower of the ML-16 is affected by its power source; maybe you can simply get more damage with more juice (i.e. off a fighters reactor rather than someportable batterypack or fusion cell)
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The only reason that last one looks like a Prometheus is because it has green trim.
Judging from the cable on it, I'd say it looks like a Kayser.
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The second pic looks a lot like the ML-16... just flip the weapon back-to-front. ;)
The third pic is the Prometheus, but with an extra tube on the top.
I'm pretty sure they'd re-use their existing weapon models for their cutscenes.
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Too early for a Kayser.
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In all probablility, it's probably just a modified primary weapon from the tech animations. After all, V had these cool looking guns they made for the animatiosn, why not use them elswhere?
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Banshee.
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Originally posted by Nuke
anyone who has actually built a gauss projectile launcher knows that they are hellishly inneffietient, heavy, and quite bulky. they are probibly using some advanced caseless ammo. caseless ammo is the way to go, you dont have to deal with the trouble of ejecting brass. so you can have your fire rate up in the 1000 rpm range (more than adequit in an assault rifle) caseless ronds would probibly use some advanced solid propelant that takes up less space than smokless powder and is oxydised for use in zero atmosphere environments. ammo would probibly be supplied from an helical clip that can hold about 50-100 rounds (depending on calibur). speaking of calibur, in space it would probibly be better to use a larger one, seeing as there is no drag to slow your muzzel velocity. it an atmosphere smaller rounds tend to do more damage cause they cut through the air better and thus have a better muzzel velocity.
lets see you use your gauss rifle in an emp storm :D
*edit* damn them uniforms look like something out of red faction :D
Except for two problems: One, have you listened to the noise those guns make? They don't sound like chemical-reaction propellent guns. They hum. Two, consider the size of the bore. They're firing 80mm or greater rounds. I'm sorry, there is not room for more the five or six of those there, and they fire sustained fully automatic bursts lasting several seconds.
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i didnt say those were the guns they used, im saying they were the guns they should have used :D
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I highly doubt theyre using starship lasers, those things are probably HUGE.
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Originally posted by FireCrack
I highly doubt theyre using starship lasers, those things are probably HUGE.
Agreed. Especially since FS fighters are about the size of a house. The gun barrels on the front of a Herc, for example, are a couple of feet in diameter.
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well, the herc has relativly large (heavily armoured?) gun barrels, so it's probably not theb est choice, but nonetheless an ML-16 is at the shortest a good 5 meteres long, probably 8 though, and about 2M on the long direction of width
in conclusin, starship guns are the size of samll automobiles.
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But they only took down One shivan out of 3-4 + they ALL fired at that One. How stuipd? How much metal can those guys take!
Why in the hell did they wait so dam long to fire? They wouldent think they were comeing to peacable greet them did they? It was the 2nd great war with these bastards. Ovisuly they werent gona cooperate.
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Originally posted by Charismatic
But they only took down One shivan out of 3-4 + they ALL fired at that One. How stuipd? How much metal can those guys take!
Why in the hell did they wait so dam long to fire? They wouldent think they were comeing to peacable greet them did they? It was the 2nd great war with these bastards. Ovisuly they werent gona cooperate.
I think when faced with a new alien species - one which was powerful enough to annihilate entire fleets - in the wild you'd be inclined to hesitate. They weren't on a search and destroy so much as recon mission anyways; possibly they never expected the Shivans to be still alive onboard.
And as for firing... well, they shot at the nearest and more threatening target.
Read the fsref bible scripts; they explain exactly why it happened the way it did. No normal human would just wander into that sort of situation gung ho and trigger happy, regardless of what Hollywood might like to tell you.........
EDIT;
[q]
Emerging from the dark end of the corridor come 3 Shivans. They are huge, easily towering over the soldiers. They move both by jumping/walking and grabbing onto the ceiling, unhampered by the zero-g.. They approach the boarding party but stop about halfway. They pause and appear to be studying the Terrans. They carry no discernible weapons.
[closeup of the front soldier’s eyes over his gunsight, as they widen in shock]
Spice: What the hell is that!
[cut to medium shot of soldiers]
Flex: Oh my God…. look how they move….
[brief pause, as the Terrans recover from shock]
Soldier-1: Open fire!
Massive automatic gunfire erupts from the Terrans. The Shivans react very quickly and start to jump toward the party.
Zombie: *screaming* Die!
[Cut to closeup of a Shivan bounding towards the Terran unit. It’s visibly taking the brunt of the Terran’s firepower, and goes down about 8 meters away. The two behind it quickly bound around/over it and continue on, undamaged.]
[/q]
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Uh, it was the first, and they were still trying to figure out wtf they were.
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Heh. Ok ok.. ty. But they knew if they fired at the more threatoning target, they would be overrun by the other 2, who were chargeing at them also..?
But yes, hesitation would be correct. Sorry.
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Originally posted by Charismatic
Heh. Ok ok.. ty. But they knew if they fired at the more threatoning target, they would be overrun by the other 2, who were chargeing at them also..?
You're assuming the 1st Shivan wasn't also acting to block the fire and protect the other 2 behind it.
Or, of course, the marines underestimated the strength of the Shivans 'skin', and thought by focusing their fire on the nearest one they could take each Shivan in turn without any getting close.
And it's unlikely the GTA would have a set doctrine for that kind of 'infantry' engagement, of course; the Vasudans probably don't bound at high speed along the ceilings, after all.
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Yah, sorry, didnt think about that. Good observations, Aldo 14. I'v enjoyed this discussion. Thank you.
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And it's unlikely the GTA would have a set doctrine for that kind of 'infantry' engagement, of course; the Vasudans probably don't bound at high speed along the ceilings, after all.
No, they walk up to the Terrans, grab them by their throats, and slam them onto the ground, where they procede to trample them. :p
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Except for two problems: One, have you listened to the noise those guns make? They don't sound like chemical-reaction propellent guns. They hum. Two, consider the size of the bore. They're firing 80mm or greater rounds. I'm sorry, there is not room for more the five or six of those there, and they fire sustained fully automatic bursts lasting several seconds.
They were in a tightly contained space, with an unknown composition of metal on the walls and chemicals in the air. The guns would also be fitted with suppressors to keep the soldiers from going completely deaf. The humming could be caused by some sort of rotation mechanism.
I remember definitely hearing some automatic-projectile sounds, eg explosions as the weapons fired, which an energy weapon wouldn't make.
A bizzare thought - if the soldiers were in a vaccuum, having bullets in the traditional shape wouldn't be as necessary. You could use thin metal plates , which would also lessen the chance of penetrating the hull. Thus you'd still have a wide bore, but the actual projectiles would take up very little space.
You'd need some sort of VERY tough metal to withstand an explosion inside the gun's chamber, but the GTVA's got 367 years or so to come up with new ones.
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Lol, possible names for the new metals. We woudl get some wired names then, if people tried to come up with some. *hint hint*
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my idea is that they are using some lasers from ships which are much smaller and demand less power so that they could be deployed by infantry...
of course that was simply random...
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
They were in a tightly contained space, with an unknown composition of metal on the walls and chemicals in the air. The guns would also be fitted with suppressors to keep the soldiers from going completely deaf. The humming could be caused by some sort of rotation mechanism.
I remember definitely hearing some automatic-projectile sounds, eg explosions as the weapons fired, which an energy weapon wouldn't make.
A bizzare thought - if the soldiers were in a vaccuum, having bullets in the traditional shape wouldn't be as necessary. You could use thin metal plates , which would also lessen the chance of penetrating the hull. Thus you'd still have a wide bore, but the actual projectiles would take up very little space.
You'd need some sort of VERY tough metal to withstand an explosion inside the gun's chamber, but the GTVA's got 367 years or so to come up with new ones.
One of the soldiers was carrying a different weapon, apparently some kind of grenade launcher, also apparently as a squad support weapon. She fired it only once, but that appeared to be what finally took the Shivan down. If it takes an armor-piercing grenade to stop one...
Considering there was fog in an earlier section of the transport, they did not pass through any airlocks, and they didn't have faceplates, they were in an atmosphere of some sort, one that was thick enough and non-toxic enough to not be immeditately dangerous to an exposed human.
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^ i noticed the grenade launcher too but i thaught it was just me
Close observation of the scene indicates that when they encountered the shuvans they were at the bottom part of the transport.
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I didn't notice the grenade launcher, actually.
IIRC, they were wearing some sort of protective masks that would've let them breathe from a self-contained air supply. They didn't cover their complete face, just their nose and mouth.
I thought they actually did pass through an airlock, too, between the Shivan ship and the other ship.
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Yeah, but there was some sort of yellowish fog onboard the Shivan transport.
Exposure to vacuum is not good for you, whether you can still breathe via your oxygen tank or not. Particularly for your eyes.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I didn't notice the grenade launcher, actually.
IIRC, they were wearing some sort of protective masks that would've let them breathe from a self-contained air supply. They didn't cover their complete face, just their nose and mouth.
I thought they actually did pass through an airlock, too, between the Shivan ship and the other ship.
The airlock could/would be to prevent the atmosphere in the Shivan ship from being sucked out the bloody great breaching-hole, though.... or even if it's a dockpoint they're using (I'm not sure), maybe the Shivans simply don't have a physical airlock (they can survive in vacuum after all) - either none atall or an energy based forcefield airlock. The latter which could be disabled due to damage or simply as a defensive mechanism.