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Off-Topic Discussion => Arts & Talents => Topic started by: ShivanEmperor on July 18, 2008, 03:50:12 pm

Title: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: ShivanEmperor on July 18, 2008, 03:50:12 pm
Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four

Deep within the reactor area of the GTVA's most powerful warship, the Colossus, an operative sneaks into the power regulator for the fire control stations.

Quickly, the operative pulls several levers. The Colossus's weapons malfuction and come to a complete stop.

"Command, we're experiencing a global malfunction in fire control!" said the captain of the Colossus.

Admiral Aken Bosch was now free to enter the Knossos. The Iceni quickly engaged it's subspace drive and sped into the Knossos.

Bosch's Neo Terran Front  has been crushed. Nothing more remains of the NTF. It is now that the GTVA can concentrate on exploring the nebula.

__________


Bosch came through the Nebula fast, destroying a small group of bombers.

"We are in the Nebula, Admiral!" said Bosch's lieutentant. "Good, jump to a safe distance from the Node and power-up the ETAK device." replied Bosch.

An hour later, Bosch was atleast 10 cliks from the node to Gamma Draconis.

The Iceni began to power up the ETAK device down in engineering.

"Broadcasting now, sir!"

Admiral Bosch sat in his usual pose with his hands together infront of his face. Sort of a praying manner. He waited for quite a while.

After several hours, Bosch was in his study, writing his logs. All of a suddon a massive Shivan warship jumped into the mist near the Iceni.

Startled, Admiral Bosch ran back to the bridge. He looked out the main viewport and saw the massive Shivan vessel jump to subspace to an unknown location.

"Sir, before that ship jumped out we got a reply to the message we sent out using Etak."

Bosch looked at his viewscreen. What he saw was constant beating on a scope. "Attempting to translate now, sir!"

Weeks past. Remaining NTF operatives in the GTVA informed Bosch that the GTVA had won a major victory in Capella. A super Shivan vessel designated the SJ Sathanas had been destroyed by the combined efforts of the Colossus and several bombers.

Bosch was waiting in his Study when the intercom sounded "Admiral, we have translated the message. No one has read it yet, just like you ordered. I am sending it to you now."

Bosch was not only happy to have made contact with the Shivans, but he had discovered more through the message which had just been translated: The Shivans were not alone in the nebula. Another race of Human's baring all powerfull warships of destruction had come through another subspace portal. These beings intended to conquer this galaxy as is their method of empire building. The empire desired Bosch, and Bosch alone to provide them infomation useful in their conquest. For the interest of an alliance with a stronger power of species in the universe, Bosch had accepted.

__________


This is the final entry in the personal log of Admiral Aken Bosch, supreme commander of the Neo Terran Front. Our encounter with the Shivans has vindicated all I have fought for these past thirty years. My life's work has been achieved. I have created the technology to enable communication between the Shivans and the human race. Although our first contact was rudimentary and crude, I have initiated the first phase of a new alliance with the destroyers. An alliance upon which the fate of humanity depends.

As a young pilot I battled against the rebels of the great war, the Galactic Terran Intelligence whose research of shivan technology and biology would form the cornerstone of my project. The Terran-Vasudan alliance buried this knowledge but I resurrected it. I alone realised our species had no future with the Vasudans. If we are to survive, our destiny must lie elsewhere.

As I make this final entry my crew is preparing to scuttle the Iceni and board the shivan transports. We embark on a miraculous journey towards a new horizon. This tragic era of hatred and misunderstanding between our races is over. On this day, for the first time in my life, I am filled with joy.

__________


A few Shivan transports and a Rakshasa cruiser came out of Subspace. The ships headed towards the Iceni and transports docked on either side. Aparently, the empire had sent the Shivans to retrieve Bosch. Little does Bosch know of what awaits him and his crew. The fates of so many are soon to be decided.

Startled, Bosch heard gunfire and screaming coming from the docked levels. Bosch's lieutenant informed him that the Shivans are slaughtering the crew and taking only important people.

Bosch writes down a quick message to be sent to the Shivans through ETAK. The message quickly gets sent by the desperate crew in the engineering section. The message asks why the Shivans are attacking his crew.

In less than a minute, an image apears on his viewscreen. A blue person with red eyes smiles at him through the blurry screen. "Admiral Bosch I presume?" Said Thrawn with a distinct grin.

"Who... who are you? What's going on?"

"We have no reason to trust you, Admiral. Neither are your crew useful to us in any way. There are many things in our empire you may not quite aprove of. Your home planet... wil be ours. We know there is infomation that you will refuse to give us. So we are going to take the liberty to force you to give us the infomation we desire. I am Admiral Thrawn. I have a lot of influence in the Galactic Empire."

"I trusted you people!"

"We didn't trust you. Our new pets should be bringing your onboard our ship momentarilly. Thrawn out."

The Viewscreen deactivated. Five Shivans blew open the door to his study and grabbed him by his arms. The Shivans dragged him to the transports docked with the Iceni.

GTVA fighters came into view and began attacking the transports. The transport carrying Bosch jumped to Subspace. Never to be seen for a long, long time.

20 minutes later, the Shivan transport carrying Bosch came into view of a Star Destroyer. The Transport entered the hangor. Small pads came out from underneath which allowed it to land. Two Shivans dragging Bosch came out a boarding ramp.

Thrawn was waiting in the hangor. Once again with an evil grin. "Welcome Admiral. It is good to see someone with a rank similar to mine nowadays. Unfortunately, that rank of yours won't be yours for much longer."

3 StormTroopers took Bosch into the prision cells.

Thrawn issued one final order to his Shivan pets: "Tell your leaders that we won't want any interference from the Human's beyond the node."

The Star Destroyer jumped to the Subspace node to Byss and then subspaced back to his own galaxy.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on July 18, 2008, 04:01:00 pm
I hope the Shivans lay some major smackdown on the Empire.

Shivans are not mother****ing pets, jackhole (referring to Thrawn, not you :P).
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Hades on July 18, 2008, 05:49:07 pm
I still think that Thrawn could not have translated Shivan language. :doubt:

Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 18, 2008, 07:49:50 pm
Quote
Admiral Bosch sat in his usual pose with his hands together infront of his face. Sort of a praying manner. He waited for quite a while.
For some reason, this line made me :wakka:

I hope the Shivans realise what pricks the Empire is, and hold a ceasefire with the GTVA if only to lay down some serious smackdown on the Empire.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: DarthWang on July 19, 2008, 10:03:59 am
That was good. I don't think the Shivans could beat the Empire though, unless they pulled out something bigger and stronger than we've ever seen before (maybe those hypothetical planet-sized ships people think  :v: was hinting about for FS3)

Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Droid803 on July 19, 2008, 11:56:54 am
That was good. I don't think the Shivans could beat the Empire though, unless they pulled out something bigger and stronger than we've ever seen before (maybe those hypothetical planet-sized ships people think  :v: was hinting about for FS3)

GARGANT RAPE FTW!!!!!!!!!!!111!1eleventy1!one

--
Uhh...nice story :nod:
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on July 19, 2008, 01:26:10 pm
Someone, I think it was Androgeos Exeunt, said something about the Sathanas fleet being nothing more than platelets converging on a wound. This is something I'd like to see... Explored...

**** the Empire.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 21, 2008, 03:32:01 am
Maybe when Thrawn brings a Cain back with him, the Cain transmits "L0ll3r5|<aT35 l053r5!!! Y0u'\/3 |3E3|\| PU|\||<3|)!!" And a Lucy jumps in behind it.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on July 21, 2008, 05:47:49 am
Skip the Lucifer, go straight to Gargant please.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 21, 2008, 09:34:34 am
A fleet of Gargants.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Admiral_Stones on July 21, 2008, 11:43:01 am
A fleet of Gargants.

Which gets singe-handedly slaughtered by a single Star Destroyer?
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Droid803 on July 21, 2008, 11:53:49 am
How? They're 37km long. They'd win by ramming the ISD.
Of course, you could bring out the Death Star, but that's the Death Star.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Admiral_Stones on July 21, 2008, 12:56:48 pm
How? They're 37km long. They'd win by ramming the ISD.
Of course, you could bring out the Death Star, but that's the Death Star.

I could hardly believe a Gargant is faster than an ISD... it simply laughs at the attempts of the Gargants to catch up whilst dealing death with octuple laser turrets.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Titan on July 21, 2008, 01:07:56 pm
How? They're 37km long. They'd win by ramming the ISD.
Of course, you could bring out the Death Star, but that's the Death Star.

I could hardly believe a Gargant is faster than an ISD... it simply laughs at the attempts of the Gargants to catch up whilst dealing death with octuple laser turrets.


Whilst the gargant's BEAMZ screw the shields and blow apart the Chimera's engines, an then 3 more ump in and blow its ass.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on July 21, 2008, 01:26:29 pm
I could hardly believe a Gargant is faster than an ISD... it simply laughs at the attempts of the Gargants to catch up whilst dealing death with octuple laser turrets.
Uhh, laser turrets won't do crap against the Gargant. Planetary bombardment beams do 0.1 damage to its turrets.

Then again, Star Wars ships dish out teraton payloads, so you could have the entire Shivan fleet against 2 TIE fighters and they'd lose. :rolleyes:

Please excuse the following Mobius comment:

Which gets singe-handedly slaughtered by a single Star Destroyer?
That's idiotic
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Hades on July 21, 2008, 06:38:38 pm
How? They're 37km long. They'd win by ramming the ISD.
Of course, you could bring out the Death Star, but that's the Death Star.

I could hardly believe a Gargant is faster than an ISD... it simply laughs at the attempts of the Gargants to catch up whilst dealing death with octuple laser turrets.
Also this had been said before, FS ship speed are most likely relevant to their real speeds. :v: most likely made the ships slow to make the game easier for the player.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Droid803 on July 21, 2008, 07:17:56 pm
How? They're 37km long. They'd win by ramming the ISD.
Of course, you could bring out the Death Star, but that's the Death Star.

I could hardly believe a Gargant is faster than an ISD... it simply laughs at the attempts of the Gargants to catch up whilst dealing death with octuple laser turrets.

When I mean ram, I meant as it jumps in.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on July 21, 2008, 07:22:32 pm
I can't understand Admiral Stone's logic. Therefore, it is a bad argument, because I can't understand it.

But seriously. Your logic is flawed.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 21, 2008, 08:55:58 pm
The Gargants can always pull a JAD Colossus and jump into the star destroyer.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Droid803 on July 21, 2008, 09:36:47 pm
The Gargants can always pull a JAD Colossus and jump into the star destroyer.

Exactly what I thought :nod:
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 22, 2008, 02:16:52 pm
I don't care what universe you're from, even the Star Forge wouldn't survive that.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: DarthWang on July 22, 2008, 02:47:52 pm
I thought jumping into a solid object was impossible
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on July 22, 2008, 03:00:29 pm
I thought jumping into a solid object was impossible
There's no proof for or against, but personally I think it should be possible, or it'd be simple to destroy anything easily.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Admiral_Stones on July 23, 2008, 03:16:32 am
'kay, mabe I fanboyed a bit...  but I bet if we've got ships of the same size class, Star Wars would win. So... bring in the Eclipse! Mwuhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahaha!
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on July 23, 2008, 05:38:39 am
'kay, mabe I fanboyed a bit...  but I bet if we've got ships of the same size class, Star Wars would win. So... bring in the Eclipse! Mwuhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahaha!
So the Eclipse is 17.5km, right? That means the closest thing we have is the Gigas... 5 superlasers and a subspace weapon coming your way, buddy...

Oh, and the Shivans have astromech droids too. :P
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Spicious on July 23, 2008, 06:07:13 am
Wow, the fanboys are back on both sides.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on July 23, 2008, 06:12:28 am
Wow, the fanboys are back on both sides.
Can't pass up an opportunity for spacebattles.com
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: DarthWang on July 24, 2008, 07:15:08 pm
I thought jumping into a solid object was impossible
There's no proof for or against, but personally I think it should be possible, or it'd be simple to destroy anything easily.

Why doesn't nebula gas materialize in the cockpit when you jump into a nebula?
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 24, 2008, 08:09:52 pm
Displacement. . . Like jumping dropping a diving bell into the ocean. Why would gas penetrate the sealed cockpit? It's not vibrating in the nth dimension like the fighter anyway. Same reason you can't use another ships subspace vortex. ;7
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Excalibur on July 28, 2008, 06:08:30 pm
I thought in another thread someone said that FS2 beams would blow up the bridge of an ISD in a few seconds - or are we only talking about FS1?
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on July 28, 2008, 10:09:28 pm
This is FS2, but there are too many SW fanboys (like Admiral Stoned) around here for that to work.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: DarthWang on August 01, 2008, 12:38:56 am
Maybe because the canon information proves that SD shields can dissipate teratons of energy per second
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 01, 2008, 12:42:29 am
Maybe because the canon information proves that SD shields can dissipate teratons of energy per second
Which is complete and utter crap, because in the movies we have seen otherwise (Executor colliding with 2 Star Destroyers does not release teratons of energy per second).
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Droid803 on August 01, 2008, 12:59:54 am
unless, of course, the armor produces teraton explosions on contact.
Which would be pretty damn retarded.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 01, 2008, 06:13:44 am
Then of course there's the sacrificial A-wing that took out the SSD bridge. I can't remember if it's shields were up or down at the time.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 01, 2008, 07:35:27 am
Most SW canon is complete pugwash, really the only thing that is real is JAR JAR BINKS.

(on second thoughts, all Star Wars canon has its flaws)
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: DarthWang on August 02, 2008, 08:17:49 pm
The executor was destroyed by crashing into the Death Star. The A-Wing hit the bridge after the shields were lowered by a combined bombardment from the rebel fleet, then fighters took out the shield generators. Do some research.

The executor's shields stood up to 3 star destroyers colliding with it at relativistic speed as they dropped out of hyperspace in one incident.

You don't like the EU?

Tough ****. It's canon, get over it.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Droid803 on August 02, 2008, 08:29:19 pm
Three star destroyers crashing into the executor does not produce said "Teratons" of energy...even if they were moving at relativistic speeds (well, maybe if they all smacked at a single point...very very tiny). A teraton is ****ing retardedly huge amount.

I recall saying that if a planet was bombarded with teraton-level weapons...uhh...funny things would happed because the atmosphere would do something funny.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Spicious on August 02, 2008, 09:00:47 pm
Most SW canon is complete pugwash, really the only thing that is real is g-canon.
But Inferno is FS canon?
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Droid803 on August 02, 2008, 09:02:51 pm
When you take non-canon vs non-canon, anything can happen basically. >.>
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 03, 2008, 08:53:49 am
Its difficult to compare universes, because what seems imba in one universe is normal in the other.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 03, 2008, 08:57:13 am
But Inferno is FS canon?
Sorry, for the following comment, but who the **** said that?

[edit]
Just to say, whenever people start disputes over FS canon (ie. TVWP is "semi-canon"), I tend to get rather pissed off.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Spicious on August 03, 2008, 04:41:48 pm
I think it was you (among others):
Skip the Lucifer, go straight to Gargant please.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: DarthWang on August 03, 2008, 09:39:01 pm
Three star destroyers crashing into the executor does not produce said "Teratons" of energy...even if they were moving at relativistic speeds (well, maybe if they all smacked at a single point...very very tiny). A teraton is ****ing retardedly huge amount.

I recall saying that if a planet was bombarded with teraton-level weapons...uhh...funny things would happed because the atmosphere would do something funny.

Try doing some research.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Relativ/releng.html

A 6 - km long asteroid travelling at only 17 km/second hit the earth with a force of 100 teratons 65 million years ago.

3 1.6 - km long hunks of much denser material travelling thousands of times as fast would do much more.

Not to mention a single ISD can canonically melt the surface of a planet, destroy all natural resources and render it so uninhabitable for life that it would be easier to terraform a new one in 1 hour.

Not to mention it's specifically stated that an Acclamator class transport carrier has shields that can dissipate 16 teratons of energy per second, and an Executor Dreadnaught >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an Acclamator

Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 04, 2008, 09:18:09 am
I think it was you (among others):
Skip the Lucifer, go straight to Gargant please.
That was a joke, not an actual suggestion, and if you misunderstood it, I'll tell you now: I do not think Inferno is canon in any way shape or form.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Retsof on August 05, 2008, 11:32:46 am
I'm wondering if he knew that hyperspace dosent work in a nebula.  In "The Dark Nest 1: The Joiner King"  The Falcon made an uncalculated jump and ended up running into a nebula.  After the expected dramatics they got shut down, but if they hadn't they would have been destroyed by the process of hittting dust particles at superluminal speeds.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 06, 2008, 12:12:42 am
Does hitting dust particles at superluminal speeds create tetratons of energy? (well, superluminal IS fast, so it might)

But seriously, shields dissipating tetratons of energy per second = complete bull
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: DarthWang on August 06, 2008, 08:43:56 am
Right, because the Millenium Falcon, a modified civilian freighter, is going to have shields as powerful as a warship  :doubt:

The figures are canon, stop whining
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Mongoose on August 06, 2008, 12:12:16 pm
The figures are canon, stop whining
Just because these numbers-that-Lucas-and/or-random-authors-pulled-out-of-their-asses are "canon" doesn't make them any less subject to ridicule.  And said numbers generally don't mesh at all with what we see on-screen during the films.  The asteroid field scene during ESB is used as a classic example; if those Star Destroyers are wary about colliding with several-meter-long asteroids, their shield/hull strength has to be many orders of magnitude off their "canon" listings.  That's the thing that always cracks me up about those Trek-vs-Wars arguments that the idiots on such sites as StarDestroyer.net brew up; they wind up being boiled down to, "Hahaha our numbers are bigger than yours kthxbai." Just because some hack licensed writer throws down a few facts doesn't mean that they're "true."

(As a side note, the other thing that cracks me up about the Trek/Wars arguments is that no one ever takes into account the fact that Trek ships are capable of fighting at superluminal speeds, and they usually engage from a range somewhere in the tens of thousands of kilometers.  A Star Destroyer wouldn't even be able to see what was hitting it.)
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Spicious on August 06, 2008, 06:20:29 pm
(As a side note, the other thing that cracks me up about the Trek/Wars arguments is that no one ever takes into account the fact that Trek ships are capable of fighting at superluminal speeds, and they usually engage from a range somewhere in the tens of thousands of kilometers.  A Star Destroyer wouldn't even be able to see what was hitting it.)
When did that ever happen?
How would they hit anything? Their weapons clearly travel at somewhere around the speed of sound in atmosphere.

If you choose to disregard canon numbers because you don't like them, why bother with canon at all? You'll just chuck out anything you don't like.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Mongoose on August 07, 2008, 02:14:50 am
It happened in...almost every episode involving two ships fighting each other.  One ship goes to warp (i.e., above the speed of light), another gives chase while shooting at it.  In fact, I can think of at least several instances when one ship managed to knock another one out of warp by damaging its engines enough.  And considering how nervous Worf's voice was when the distance between two attacking ships had decreased to a few thousand kilometers, one can assume that that's considered close-range combat.  It's certainly a few orders of magnitude further apart than Mon-Cal cruiser vs. Star Destroyer.

And regarding the numbers, what I'm arguing is that these "canon" digits plopped down in some ship guide or side-novel somewhere are flat-out wrong when compared to what we actually saw happen in the original trilogy.  (You can take or leave the new films as you please.)  I'll almost buy the "over 9000 gigaultramegajoules" figure for the Death Star's superlaser, since we actually see it disrupt a planet beyond gravitational reattraction.  (But then again, given the mind-bending energies involved in such a feat, one doubts that even a reactor as massive as the Death Star's could charge enough capacitors to provide enough power for it, no matter what it burns.)  But most of the other numbers I've seen touted about smack of some giddy author somewhere thinking, "Hmm...what's an asininely big value to make these things seem uber-impressive?"  We've seen what a Star Destroyer's turbolasers do against another ships shields/hull (not much, individually)...and yet we're supposed to believe it's capable of glassing an entire planet's surface?  Please.  And considering that a single low-mass fightercraft, moving at a relatively  slow speed, managed to slice neatly into a supposedly incredibly-armored ship's bridge, I fail to see how those values hold up either.  Hell, the only reason you need such ridiculously-supercharged shields/hulls in the first place is because of the aforementioned ridiculous weapon values.

In the end, all those numbers come down to a bunch of fanboys (and yes, I'm counting published authors in that category too) trying to play physics with a largely fantasy-based universe that was never intended to be scientifically consistent in the first place.  I'm not limiting that just to Star Wars, either; it seems to be a common ailment among sci-fi fans of all creeds, and it's the one thing that irritates me more than any other about that particular fandom.

...I apologize for this off-topic diatribe. :p
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 07, 2008, 03:02:01 am
If you choose to disregard canon numbers because you don't like them, why bother with canon at all? You'll just chuck out anything you don't like.
Star Wars is a cluster****: That's what I do.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Spicious on August 07, 2008, 04:37:30 am
It happened in...almost every episode involving two ships fighting each other.  One ship goes to warp (i.e., above the speed of light), another gives chase while shooting at it.  In fact, I can think of at least several instances when one ship managed to knock another one out of warp by damaging its engines enough.  And considering how nervous Worf's voice was when the distance between two attacking ships had decreased to a few thousand kilometers, one can assume that that's considered close-range combat.  It's certainly a few orders of magnitude further apart than Mon-Cal cruiser vs. Star Destroyer.
I like how you state that as fact and expect everyone to believe you.
And which Mon-Cal vs. star destroyer battle are you comparing to? The one where they specifically engage at point blank range?
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: DarthWang on August 07, 2008, 08:44:07 am
They weren't worried about the asteroids at all, in fact the novelization describes multi-megaton impacts hitting them for days on end. Only one Star Destroyer was damaged in the asteroid field, and that's because its shields were down for a holonet conference and it was already damaged from the ion cannon at Hoth.

Furthermore, Star Trek battles almost always occur at only a few ship-lengths away with slow maneuvering. Star Wars ships can hit enemies from light-seconds away in some circumstances. Warp Strafing is a Trekkie fanfiction invention that has never been seen in canon.

If you want to talk about what we see onscreen, look at the asteroid scene in episode II when Slave 1 (a modified civilian patrol ship) demonstrates easily gigaton - level firepower.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 07, 2008, 08:47:04 am
Realistically, when you see an asteroid you shouldn't see another reasonably sized asteroid for a long way.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Mongoose on August 07, 2008, 07:25:10 pm
I like how you state that as fact and expect everyone to believe you.
And which Mon-Cal vs. star destroyer battle are you comparing to? The one where they specifically engage at point blank range?
I'm sorry that I can't give you specific episode names and time stamps, since I have no at-hand access to Trek material (nor would I remember specific episodic instances even if I did), but having seen more Trek than is probably healthy for me, all I can say is that I've seen ships at warp fight each other on numerous occasions across two or three different series.  I don't proclaim to be a Trek expert by any stretch of the imagination, so I'd hope there's someone much better informed than I to clarify things.  And the engagements I was talking about were during the Battle of Endor, since that's the only time in the films I can think of where we see those two sorts of ships engage.  If you want a different example, the Star Destroyer at the beginning of ANH was right on the tail of the Tantive IV while trying to capture it, and if you're expanding this to the prequels, the two destroyers at the beginning of ROTS were broadsiding from point-blank range as well.  Like I said, I don't have any specific evidence to back things up on the Trek side of things, but I've always been under the impression that even at impulse speed, Trek ships seemed to have an extraordinarily fast closing speed, on the order of  thousands of kilometers a second, and that combat from those ranges was not uncommon.

Quote from: DarthWang
They weren't worried about the asteroids at all, in fact the novelization describes multi-megaton impacts hitting them for days on end. Only one Star Destroyer was damaged in the asteroid field, and that's because its shields were down for a holonet conference and it was already damaged from the ion cannon at Hoth.
I've already said that I'm considering neither the novelization nor the figures that it contains, since it's really so much fluff in the end.  If you want to get down to brass tacks, the asteroids we saw in ESB were rather dinky as a whole (unless you count that space worm hangout), and they didn't seem to be moving at much of a relative speed to the Star Destroyers at all.  Hardly "multi-megaton" material, considering how big and how fast a meteorite has to be to cause that level of impact on our own planet.

Quote
Furthermore, Star Trek battles almost always occur at only a few ship-lengths away with slow maneuvering. Star Wars ships can hit enemies from light-seconds away in some circumstances. Warp Strafing is a Trekkie fanfiction invention that has never been seen in canon.
Without concrete evidence, I can't do anything more than claim that you're way off-base here from my own viewing experience, so I'm not going to attempt to do so.  What I do know is that I don't ever recall seeing Trek ships engage at only a "few ship-lengths," nor did I ever see Wars ships engage at "light-second" range (again, the Death Star might be an exception, but it's kind of a gamebreaker by its very nature anyway).  The term "warp strafing" came up in some random argument I found via a Google search, but I can't confirm or deny the episodes it referenced; what I do know is that combat between two ships both at a similar warp speed seems to be fairly common.

Quote
If you want to talk about what we see onscreen, look at the asteroid scene in episode II when Slave 1 (a modified civilian patrol ship) demonstrates easily gigaton - level firepower.
It also demonstrated the most scientifically-inaccurate weaponry I've ever seen in sci-fi.  "Hey, let's kill things in space...with sound!  Brilliant!" :p

Okay, look...this whole argument got started around a one-off comment I included in my first post in here that wasn't even the main point of what I was trying to say.  I will freely admit that I'm not capable of giving this argument any informed justice, since I simply don't have references at hand to pull up and use as examples.  (Now, if someone wants to permanently loan me a thousand bucks' worth of DVD sets, that can change...) I don't want to waste anyone's time pulling a he-said-she-said style of discussion, since the topic's deserving of something far better-informed than that.  And besides all of that...I really, really loathe space-battle-style arguments, and the last thing I ever wanted was to become embroiled in one. :p I'm going to do everyone a favor and pull out of this, with the hope that someone who actually does know what they're talking about can continue it somewhere/when else.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2008, 09:42:54 am
Universe-vs-universe debates are pointless, just leave it up to ShivanEmperor to get the judgment right.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: DarthWang on August 08, 2008, 05:27:20 pm
If you're going to simply ignore canon and not give sources for your claims, there's no point in debating this.

Back to the point, crossover fics usually have to have one or both sides altered in power to be more balanced anyway. Even Mike Wong did that in a fic he wrote.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 09, 2008, 03:24:56 am
Back to the point, crossover fics usually have to have one or both sides altered in power to be more balanced anyway. Even Mike Wong did that in a fic he wrote.
Obviously, since otherwise there's no way to get them to work without messing up everything.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Mongoose on August 09, 2008, 01:01:23 pm
If you're going to simply ignore canon and not give sources for your claims, there's no point in debating this.
...thank you for summarizing what I just said.  I can never seem to remember what I've just typed. :p
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Kosh on August 22, 2008, 08:46:21 am
I would have preferred a Shivan Vs. Empire rather than Shivan allied with Empire kind of story, since they both have seemingly unlimited resources, and the GTVA and rebel alliance would be caught in the middle.

Maybe because the canon information proves that SD shields can dissipate teratons of energy per second

First off energy isn't measured in tons. Secondly it's Freespace canon that beams of any kind can penetrate any kind of shields. If that wasn't enough, freespace fighters are (in general) more heavily armed and armored plus a shielding system is standard issue, whereas Tie fighters would get torn apart very quickly not only from fighters but also flak from capital ships.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Admiral_Stones on August 22, 2008, 09:43:09 am
He means teratons of TNT equivalent.

Besides that, we have no proof at all FS shields for the same way as SW shields.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 22, 2008, 07:17:02 pm
Does it matter what you all think? It just matters what the author thinks and what he writes. Besides, in a competition of fanboys (no offense to anyone) no one will win.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2008, 10:02:23 pm
We should just trust Shivan Emperor's judgement on balancing out FS and SW. These fanboy arguments make me sad.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Gold Leader on August 26, 2008, 10:30:32 pm
Hi all :)

Well imho I prefer Starwars which is obvious A it's much older and B it's build up is in many cases wider, the expanded universe is just massive, where FreeSpace well just isn't comparable to it.

but on the other hand the FreeSpace series are a very good alternative I like both very much, the Wing Commander series is something better built up than the FreeSpace series though but hey, that's my little opinion there ;)
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 27, 2008, 04:01:22 am
In my opinion, Star Wars is incoherent because of the EU. I mean, George Lucas had a clear vision of what he wanted to do with Star Wars. But then all these random comic writers and book authors came along and messed up his vision. They added some random crap with fifty billion Sith lords and even more Jedi masters and added random crap like the Yuuzhan Vong... IMO the only Star Wars are the first 3 movies. The rest is fan fiction.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Gold Leader on August 27, 2008, 08:11:32 am
In my opinion, Star Wars is incoherent because of the EU. I mean, George Lucas had a clear vision of what he wanted to do with Star Wars. But then all these random comic writers and book authors came along and messed up his vision. They added some random crap with fifty billion Sith lords and even more Jedi masters and added random crap like the Yuuzhan Vong... IMO the only Star Wars are the first 3 movies. The rest is fan fiction.
well the rest is the expanded universe ;) same thing you have with Star Trek, the Movies EP 1 through 6 are just a small glimpse of a massive as wide universe, just as an example on how the Starwarse universe is like, there were much greater events even before the birth of Master Yoda himself, the expanded universe makes the Star-Wars universe as big as it really is since there is much much more than "just" the movies. all the books of the DarkSaber series the X-Wing Series and so on they also tell apert of the star wars universe, it's much larger than you could possibly think , but that doesn't matter :)
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: TrashMan on August 27, 2008, 08:13:27 am
George Lucas had a clear vision of what he wanted to do with Star Wars.

I wonder....I wonder.. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 27, 2008, 08:44:56 am
I wonder....I wonder.. :rolleyes:
Well, he did. Then he became an idiot for some reason.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 27, 2008, 12:19:56 pm
Well, he did. Then he became an idiot for some reason.
No, then he got shareholders.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Titan on August 28, 2008, 09:45:57 am
he was actually quoted saying that after indiana ones (the first three) They became buisinessmen, not filmmakers. Though that is taken slighly out of context, he also said that after Young Indy, they decided to become filmmakers again... now THAT is something to wonder at...
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: eliex on August 30, 2008, 11:27:52 pm
I prefer Episodes I-III just because it's more realistic compared to the original trilogy and more sub-stories to it.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on August 31, 2008, 05:45:48 am
I prefer Episodes I-III just because it's more realistic compared to the original trilogy and more sub-stories to it.
So a 9 year old blowing up a military installation is realistic? :wtf:
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: eliex on September 01, 2008, 12:24:11 am
Anakin was . . . special and besides no matter how strong the warrior is, luck determines his fate.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Droid803 on September 01, 2008, 01:31:42 am
How was the prequel trilogy more realistic?
Some of it hardly made sense.

KotOR is awesome though...even though its EU. KotOR2 not so much, but its still decent.
It's also far off enough not to completely mess up anything in the original trilogy. (though the hardly-any-tech-development-in-10000-years thing is slightly weird).
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: eliex on September 01, 2008, 02:34:31 am
How was the prequel trilogy more realistic?
Some of it hardly made sense.


I dunno . . . some of the good guys actually die . . . all the sub-plots fit together to create the terrifying change of Anakin to D.V.

Like in the original trilogy, in episode VI Leia gets shot in the arm and it isn't even seriously hurt, but Han can just shoot a stormtrooper who is fully armoured and the stormtrooper dies straight away.

OK, well I guess that my view is odd, so I'm ending my case.  :p

Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 01, 2008, 04:02:08 am
KotOR is awesome though...even though its EU. KotOR2 not so much, but its still decent.
You do remember KotOR was rushed out of development by LucasArts, and so is nowhere near its intended completion state?
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Snail on September 01, 2008, 10:57:51 am
Saying the prequels were more realistic is like saying sugar is saltier than salt.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: DarthWang on September 01, 2008, 06:41:09 pm
The whole point of Star Wars is that it's not realistic. That's what makes it fun
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Mongoose on September 01, 2008, 09:48:16 pm
Like in the original trilogy, in episode VI Leia gets shot in the arm and it isn't even seriously hurt, but Han can just shoot a stormtrooper who is fully armoured and the stormtrooper dies straight away.
Plot armor.  A storytelling device from time immemorial. :p

(Plus, Han probably had a bigger boomstick.)
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: eliex on September 03, 2008, 04:44:19 am

Plot armor.  A storytelling device from time immemorial. :p


 . . . Ah yes, the immortal, unfaillible armour of all time . . . :D
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Getter Robo G on September 08, 2008, 07:25:52 pm
And I think they mention that standard SW "fusion tech" is like practically unchanged in 20-40,ooo years?

Anyway as for Fighting at warp I only care about TOS. I my research I found this and perhaps further viewing is in order?

"That was fairly common during the original Star Trek. "The Ultimate Computer", "Balance of Terror" and "Elaan of Troyius", and ST:TMP all contain instances of FTL ships using weapons against sublight ships."

I will need to ss TMP again as I don't remember THAT particular instance, BUT as a kid I remember something about the others...

I also remember the Enterprise ESCAPING a weapon as it fired cause it was STL and they went warp in REVERSE!! It took a few minutes on screen but they outran it, that's balls!!! (A Romulan plasma weapon). So if the crew is on the ball a STL weapon from SW can be outraced IF the crew knows it's coming in time!  ;)

[Edit]: Bingo, it appears the Enterprise under the control of the M5 Computer stays at warp fluctuating between warp 3 and 4 throughout the ENTIRE engagement... Phasers and torpedoes are used...

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=SYENq1cp27E&feature=related

When in doubt, I use TOS to answer all (if not most) of my questions since most of the Trek series that followed butcher continuity to a state worse than Swiss cheese...
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Admiral_Stones on September 09, 2008, 12:03:51 am
KotOR is awesome though...even though its EU. KotOR2 not so much, but its still decent.
You do remember KotOR was rushed out of development by LucasArts, and so is nowhere near its intended completion state?

It's still awesome. One of the best RPGs ever, behind Neverwinter Nights.
Title: Re: Freespace V.S. Star Wars Part Four
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 09, 2008, 01:33:00 am
That's right meatbag.