Author Topic: OT-Religion...  (Read 114016 times)

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Offline Nico

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Originally posted by an0n
Yakahidi, yakahida:
caesaor Conqueror, Atila Conqueror, Cleopatra Conqueror/Whore, vercingetorix No, idea, Galileo Fair enough, Alexender the Great Conqueror, Napoleon Conqueror, ramses II Conqueror, etc etc etc. Thx god (hehe) religion is not the only way to be famous. Thank God for carnage.


and so what? it's no religious people you wanted, it's non religious people you have :p
You won't get famous by helping grand ma' crossing the street :p

Anyway, I bet in 150 years Elvis and Marilyn  Monroe will still be famous :p

mmh, also, there's Thales, pythagoras, Epicure (whatvere you spell it in englich), Plato, Aristotle, and all the bunch of greek philosophers if you want pacifists :p
« Last Edit: May 10, 2002, 01:44:10 pm by 83 »
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Offline an0n

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And how often do you hear about Aristotle or Ghandi?

The only people who are truly remembered are the 'evil' (and greeks to some extent).
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
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Offline Unknown Target

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Originally posted by Kellan
This is a bad idea... :doubt:

I don't believe that the Pope et al can get away scot-free based on their religion. Although they are victims of personal mistakes, they do appear to have been victims of multiple mistakes over a sustained period. The Catholic Church as an entity didn't abuse children or endorse it, but it created an atmosphere through religious attitude where it could occur, and then failed to check for it and root it out.



Not exactly what I suggested. What I meant was that the pope and his compatriots should be punished as people not as some bizarre, mystical god-thing;)

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Originally posted by venom2506


I won't enter into faith considerations or anuthing, but you're making generalisations. On an historical point of view, during middle age, christian church followed different paths. Cistercian church was supporting a cheap way of living, built chuches w/o fancy  decorations, while the Clunisians were the exact opposite. In religion, you can't make generalisations ( and you shouldn't anyway on such a touchy topic )



Well, if you think about it, the reason there are two Christian churches today is because the first was so, not really evil, human (I know I'm starting to over use this, but I'm trying to get a point across), that a group of people simply couldn't stand it and broke away...

 

Offline Joey_21

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Originally posted by an0n
The best method against STDs and AIDs is abstienence, fact Wrong, the best way is to eliminate the diseases.


But we have no cure so therefore abstinence is the best existing method.

 

Offline an0n

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Originally posted by Joey_21
But we have no cure so therefore abstinence is the best existing method.

Killing everyone with AIDS or HIV is a sure fire cure, but aside from that, they could just infect everyone and chances are someone would have some kind immunity. Then you just find out why and administer a cure to everyone.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
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Offline Unknown Target

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Originally posted by Zeronet



I was baptised a Roman Catholic at the age of 9. After meeting with the priest every wednesday to learn about Jesus and the lord, thus unlike some people, i actually chose my religion from the outset. Now to refer to your first view

(although not my view, its a view that some people do have and thus deserves to be shown as it does serve as to further the discussion, as im sure some of you will point out that Mohammed could of made it all up or other such facts,also as generally Islam has created a fair degree of suffering in the world because of the strictness involved, which some people take to extremism its a )

, Islam was created by the word of Allah, as Mohammed was told by Allah how he wanted people to lead their lives thus as he is considered a G_D by Muslims, there will be no mistakes.

Science clashes with Religion, because people are too literal, in the times this story was wrote, people wouldnt understand evolution and doing this would tamper with the lords creation, we would not longer be idependant or free, just puppets on strings, our every action controlled by the lord so that we are all perfect. The stories were wrote to be understood without directing interfering with us too much. Take the creation story, what it does say is not literally true, but if you read between the lines, it makes sense. It describes to us, what happened in a way everyone can understand. On the 7th day, the lord rested and left us to our own devices. If the lord didnt, there wouldnt be much point to our lives.


And why is this so? Because people are simply human, and prone to mistakes. As such, we chose to make mistakes by making up stories of what happened....

Plus, Zeronet, a lot of people probably think I'm a blashpemer, and hold myself above all other religions. Not so. What I really did was, break down the facts, the myths, the science, etc., and came to a logical conclusion that would fit my bizarre mind.

 

Offline Joey_21

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Originally posted by an0n

Killing everyone with AIDS or HIV is a sure fire cure, but aside from that, they could just infect everyone and chances are someone would have some kind immunity. Then you just find out why and administer a cure to everyone.


I seriously doubt it because the disease has been around for a while and nobody has spotted definate resistance (besides the off-chance they're just lucky but that's about all it is).

 

Offline an0n

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Originally posted by Joey_21
I seriously doubt it because the disease has been around for a while and nobody has spotted definate resistance (besides the off-chance they're just lucky but that's about all it is).

They're not 'just lucky'. Their body has something which screwed the disease. It is a statistical and practical impossibility that a natural biological agent could never be defeated by the human immune system without mutation or other factors influencing the mix.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline CP5670

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Ah, religion. A major topic in human affairs today, and one that I plan to discourse about at length in my work later. Most of you already know my views on religion from my arguments here earlier, but I'll summarize them for the rest. ;) I am extremely opposed to religion of any sort, especially organized religion - not so much the principles (although even many of those are worthless) as the methods in which it is accepted by people and so finely ingrained into their minds through the course of their lives that it severely limits their capabilities to think properly.

I have said before many times that as I see it, religion was a requirement for the early formation of human civilization, because it provided two things for a technologically advancing species to socially advance as well and keep things consistent: a government to provide a sense of order (the "code" of religion is the law and god is both the peacekeeper and the punisher), and to account for that which could not be explained by science at the time. (a god to "make" the world and the universe) Over the millennia, other, more sophisticated creations of humanity have taken up those purposes: namely complicated national governments and advanced science, and religion has become sort of an embarassing joke of our civilization. It has also been, and still is, used as an excuse for commiting uncivilized acts. Hitler really believed he was serving god and carrying out god's will, and bin Laden may have/be as well; they are humans just like the rest, so who is to say who is "right" (whatever that means) and who isn't? Once we start working on artificial modification and replication of the human body (which is not too far into the future), the religious sects will once again start to interfere in science as well, just as they did with the development of celestial physics back in the 1600s.

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There is precisely zero evidence for any Religious belief, all of them rely on blind faith and faith alone.


One of the reasons I detest it is right there; scientifically this makes no sense and does not appeal to the rational mind. A few axioms are necessary for any formulation of course, but after looking more in depth into the major religions, all I can say is that this is beyond ridiculous in today's world. By its very nature and the early age at which it is taught to people, they will cling to it tightly (since future ideas are built upon it), and it would be a fruitless task to try to eliminate the ideas from people's minds. (as Top Gun said, they go by blind faith and will not accept any evidence) Instead, the social and political "sweeping forces" of history will probably take care of that over many hundreds of years. ;)

Religion has indeed become an "opium of the people,"  as Marx once said, in an almost literal sense as for the brain is concerned. :p However, I think that it will become a dead force in the coming years; even now, its influence is slowly diminishing over the generations as seen by the current trends.

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I don't believe in any kind of higher power. When you die, you die - which is why it's so important to make good the opportunity you have at life.


:yes: :yes:

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Organised religion is inherently stagnant - or else what would one organise around? As a result, it doesn't reflect the prevailing needs or attitudes of the public.


This is why I think that science and religion will clash at some point in history, possibly with violence. (with an obvious victor)

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I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me. You too can win arguments.


heheheh; looks like a fellow arguer here... ;7

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And how often do you hear about Aristotle or Ghandi?


Aristotle was quite great, but Gandhi was a complete fool of a man unprecendented in recent history. :p

Also, there is another way to render these various biological agents harmless, and that is to ditch the human body altogether, which will happen eventually, but probably not before the major diseases have been forced into submission.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2002, 03:08:52 pm by 296 »

 

Offline Nico

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Originally posted by an0n
And how often do you hear about Aristotle or Ghandi?

The only people who are truly remembered are the 'evil' (and greeks to some extent).


You're incredible. you ask to say ONE name of non religious famous people, i give you two dozens, and you reply that! damnit, you don't like to be wrong do you? I don't hear more about religious peoples, if you want to know. Those guys are famous. you know them, right? Right. So i don't give a damn if they're not mentioned in every National News posts everyday.
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Offline CP5670

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Well, they are famous at any rate, evil or not. :p :D

 

Offline an0n

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Originally posted by venom2506
You're incredible.

I know.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Razor

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Originally posted by Unkown Target



Now, before I get flamed to death here, can I explain my points?

EDIT: I know I'm probably going to be banned for this...


I don't see any point for flaming and banning. Religion is absolutely a positive thing. It is a part of ones personality.
I am an orthodox christian and i am proud of it. I respect other religions. Well like my history teacher once said: "You must respect other peoples religions as well as yours." :nod:

 

Offline Shrike

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Religion? I don't need it.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Zeronet

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Originally posted by An0n in a most awkward manner, making a response somewhat more difficult

Also all blood donors are screened, sharing needles is usually between drug users, so its simple, dont do drugs That's the most naive thing I have ever heard. The best method against STDs and AIDs is abstienence, fact Wrong, the best way is to eliminate the diseases. Its not a myth that contraception isnt 99%, its fact. Yeah, contraception on average. Condoms are 99% and diaphragms are like 60%, so you're saying that using both is less than 99% effective?


Nothing wrong with not doing drugs. The best method against STDs and AIDs is abstience, 90% of diseases are never eliminated, vaccines may come about, but as they dont exist for AIDs, abstience stands, as it means all forms of sex are avoided.

Also the RC church isnt expensive, its not like the Church of England where everyone dresses up in fancy dress.
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Offline aldo_14

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Originally posted by Zeronet


Nothing wrong with not doing drugs. The best method against STDs and AIDs is abstience, 90% of diseases are never eliminated, vaccines may come about, but as they dont exist for AIDs, abstience stands, as it means all forms of sex are avoided.

Also the RC church isnt expensive, its not like the Church of England where everyone dresses up in fancy dress.


Actually, the protestant churches (Church of Scotland, Church of England) were founded as a result of the amount of money that the Catholic church was wasting.......  basically, the collection money was going to the priests rather than the needy.

To be honest, I don't see any need for organised religion.  A/ It's main purpose is to set a code of moral values, which we should have anyway (unless you count the relieving a fear of death thing, with heaven, etc), and b/ God (or you preferred diety) would probably much rather we helped other people and lives 'good' lives, rather than spend a few hours every Sunday (mostly) being bored.

You probably won't be surprised to hear I've not been in a church for about 12 years......I guess I'm ambivalent on the whole higher power thing.... I'm going to hedge my bets on whether I have an afterlife to enjoy, and concetrate on the present :)

 

Offline Zeronet

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No the Church of England was set up so Henry the 8th could divorce his wifes and because he didnt like the Pope being the head. Quite simple really, did a few history lessons on all of it. Then a few of the kings of england decided they didnt like my ancestors and invaded Ireland and replaced us with Protestants which created the current NI problem.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2002, 04:41:29 pm by 419 »
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Offline WMCoolmon

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You should also memorize some Latin abbreviations such as "Q.E.D.", "e.g.", and "i.e." These are all short for "I speak Latin, and you don't."

Dictionary.com
Q.E.D.: Latin. quod erat demonstrandum (which was to be demonstrated).

eg: Latin. exempli gratia (for example).

ie: Latin. id est (that is).

:nod:
-C

 

Offline Zeronet

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Re: Re: Re: OT-Religion...
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Originally posted by Unkown Target


And why is this so? Because people are simply human, and prone to mistakes. As such, we chose to make mistakes by making up stories of what happened....

Plus, Zeronet, a lot of people probably think I'm a blashpemer, and hold myself above all other religions. Not so. What I really did was, break down the facts, the myths, the science, etc., and came to a logical conclusion that would fit my bizarre mind.


I think the reason is that we arent super intelligent and at the time of Jesus, people werent that advanced. Your conclusion isnt logical.
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