Author Topic: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)  (Read 589041 times)

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Well, the quality of story I think depends more on its execution than its premise. And while I think it's too early to judge any story before it's actually released, one shouldn't be surprised if people want to speculate, especially in the absence of anything more entertaining.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I don't think you can judge the story before the game comes out. But if the people are right about their speculations, then the story is pretty ****. You shouldn't be able to guess the entire storyline of a game before it comes out!
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Except if you really think the writers of this **** are as terrible as some of us think they are. Hell, even with good writers, one can make good educated guesses. I nailed most of Mass Effect 3's storyline beforehand.

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Except if you really think the writers of this **** are as terrible as some of us think they are. Hell, even with good writers, one can make good educated guesses. I nailed most of Mass Effect 3's storyline beforehand.

Ack! You knew about the star child and didn't warn us!?!?!?! wahh :P (lol)

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
No, that was the hilarious part. What I had speculated was that ME3 would be about Shepard trying to rally the other species to fight the reapers AND to find this deus ex machine BIG GUN that would kill the Reapers. The trickier conclusion I reached was that the tension would be created by a race, a competition between Shepard and TIM (who would be using horrible methods) to get this weapon to kill the Reapers. That is basically correct, except the details.

And then, I hilariously shut down a commenter that proposed that actually TIM was going to try to CONTROL the reapers using indoctrination with this comment of mine:

Quote
Turning BAD ASS ctuhluh like creatures into puppets seem like a BAD idea story wise.

Just sayin...

So my mistake was to assume Bioware's minimal writing competency :D.

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I was disappointed as soon as the story became about getting a giant ancient reaper killing weapon to kill the reapers.

but 95% of the game was still totally ****in awesome.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
A story doesn't necessarily have to be new in order to be enjoyable. Actually, it is entirely dependent on how it is pulled off. Sure, originality helps, but we still enjoy age-old storylines when they are told well. On the flipside, it's very possible to have a good, original idea, then screw it up so badly it loses all appeal. Originality itself is not all-important, though it's hard for a clone to be better than the original (though, amazingly enough, it has happened). The Wing Commander movie wasn't actually all that bad, it's the special effects that were terrible.

That said, Star Citizen might very well become too much of a throwback. Roberts seems to either want to create a great, revolutionary "new big thing", or go back to his "glory days". A game that is essentially WC+Freelancer+Starlancer all mashed together in a great 90s throwback with better graphics would probably be fun, but not exactly a classic. Nostalgia will attract some players, but SC needs to go beyond that if it really wants to succeed.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
What made Wing Commander remarkable is that it was among the first games to handle storytelling in a modern manner.  Once that sort of thing became standard, new Chris Roberts titles became rather mediocre.  Just look at WC Prophecy and Starlancer.  The typical Chris Roberts story isn't good enough anymore.  It stopped being good enough in the second half of the 1990s.  No, a story doesn't need to be new to be enjoyable.  But it does need to do something different to set itself apart from what came before.  Good writing is necessary whether your story is old or new (whatever those are supposed to mean).  And good writing is something past CR games never had.  The WC movie didn't either.

It remains to be seen if SC will follow this trend, but judging by how insanely generic Bishop's speech was, and how derivative the setting itself is, I'm not hopeful.

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
To paraphrase Stephen Colbert:

Generic enough to not confuse anyone, but also generic enough that everyone will love it.

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
What made Wing Commander remarkable is that it was among the first games to handle storytelling in a modern manner.  Once that sort of thing became standard, new Chris Roberts titles became rather mediocre.  Just look at WC Prophecy and Starlancer.  The typical Chris Roberts story isn't good enough anymore.  It stopped being good enough in the second half of the 1990s.  No, a story doesn't need to be new to be enjoyable.  But it does need to do something different to set itself apart from what came before.  Good writing is necessary whether your story is old or new (whatever those are supposed to mean).  And good writing is something past CR games never had.  The WC movie didn't either.

It remains to be seen if SC will follow this trend, but judging by how insanely generic Bishop's speech was, and how derivative the setting itself is, I'm not hopeful.

No mention of Wing Commander 4? Why not? Was that one too good? ;-) And Prophecy is more of an example why you shouldn t let EA handle franchises than anything else. lol.


Also not sure whether you can judge a man solely on the work he did 15-20 years ago ...  in the meantime he did other things like direct "Lord of War" and a couple of other movies as well.

I'll settle on what I said above... "We'll see when we're gonna see" ... but in my humble opinion anyone who pretends to "know", at this stage, is just blowing smoke. /shrugs
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 06:34:02 am by Mikes »

 

Offline The E

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Also not sure whether you can judge a man solely on the work he did 15-20 years ago ...  in the meantime he did other things like direct "Lord of War" and other movies as well.


Point of Order: Christ Roberts didn't direct or write Lord of War. Both of those duties were handled by Andrew Niccol (who also wrote and directed Gattaca and wrote The Truman Show), aka someone who actually knew what he was doing.
He did however produce the film.
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
What made Wing Commander remarkable is that it was among the first games to handle storytelling in a modern manner.  Once that sort of thing became standard, new Chris Roberts titles became rather mediocre.  Just look at WC Prophecy and Starlancer.  The typical Chris Roberts story isn't good enough anymore.  It stopped being good enough in the second half of the 1990s.  No, a story doesn't need to be new to be enjoyable.  But it does need to do something different to set itself apart from what came before.  Good writing is necessary whether your story is old or new (whatever those are supposed to mean).  And good writing is something past CR games never had.  The WC movie didn't either.

It remains to be seen if SC will follow this trend, but judging by how insanely generic Bishop's speech was, and how derivative the setting itself is, I'm not hopeful.

No mention of Wing Commander 4? Why not? Was that one too good? ;-) And Prophecy is more of an example why you shouldn t let EA handle franchises than anything else. lol.


Also not sure whether you can judge a man solely on the work he did 15-20 years ago ...  in the meantime he did other things like direct "Lord of War" and a couple of other movies as well.

I'll settle on what I said above... "We'll see when we're gonna see" ... but in my humble opinion anyone who pretends to "know", at this stage, is just blowing smoke. /shrugs
Well, given that his entire crowdfunding campaign was completely based on work he did 15-20 years ago (since he's done nothing decent since), I think he wants to be judged based on that.  I'm obliging him.

I don't think WC4 was anything special, but then again, I don't think WC5 was much worse.  It was more of the same.  What made it different is that it abandoned some of the characters (like not making Blair the player character), and, I think, showed just how mediocre the series was if you weren't a fan of the characters.  Its story and the way it was told was no worse and no better.

Basically, more of the same, but with less fan appeal.  Starlancer was in the exact same boat.

And no one here is pretending to know anything for certain.  But you need to get it into your head that it's perfectly sensible to make predictions based on what we've seen from CR before and what CIG have presented of this game and its setting thus far.  Maybe those predictions will turn out wrong, but expecting more of the same is a far safer prediction than expecting CR to make something genuinely interesting.  The former is supported by his past work and what's been shown of the game.  The latter is supported by wishful thinking.

The "it'll be mediocre" and "it'll be awesome" positions are not supported by the same amount of evidence.  They are not equally likely.  Saying "we'll see when we're gonna see" is all well and good, but it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 08:56:26 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Well, given that his entire crowdfunding campaign was completely based on work he did 15-20 years ago (since he's done nothing decent since), I think he wants to be judged based on that.  I'm obliging him.

I don't think WC4 was anything special, but then again, I don't think WC5 was much worse.  It was more of the same.  What made it different is that it abandoned some of the characters (like not making Blair the player character), and, I think, showed just how mediocre the series was if you weren't a fan of the characters.  Its story and the way it was told was no worse and no better.

Basically, more of the same, but with less fan appeal.  Starlancer was in the exact same boat.


Errrrrr.... Wing Commander 5 / Starlancer, "not much worse" than Wing Commander 4? Sheez ... have we been playing the same games? I'd say they were both rather abysmal in comparison to WC4. Especially WC5.

And yes ... he wants a spiritual successor to Wing Commander or a "modern space sim" ...  but you can't tell me that 15 years of life and experience in the movie industry mean nothing if it comes to executing stories and thus making possibly a "better" game than 15 years ago? Well, you are free to believe what you want, naturally. I'll keep my mh ... let's call it "nonpessimism" or "guarded optimism" or whatever. I just wanna see how it DOES turn out. ;-)

The "it'll be mediocre" and "it'll be awesome" positions are not supported by the same amount of evidence.  They are not equally likely.  Saying "we'll see when we're gonna see" is all well and good, but it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

Frankly, the issue I took with the discussion was that it was pretty much just a load of strong opinion based on guesswork and preconceptions and little else. I don't see any "hard evidence" swinging either way. Guess what "counts" as "evidence" is rather subjective in this case as well. /shrugs.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 09:51:57 am by Mikes »

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I mean, Chris only directed one film and it was a schlocky flop. The rest of his film career was spent producing, which is a management position. And his career ground to a halt when Kevin Costner sued the **** out of him over a failed project, so he wasn't exactly a success in that regard either.
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
And no one here is pretending to know anything for certain.  But you need to get it into your head that it's perfectly sensible to make predictions based on what we've seen from CR before and what CIG have presented of this game and its setting thus far.  Maybe those predictions will turn out wrong, but expecting more of the same is a far safer prediction than expecting CR to make something genuinely interesting.  The former is supported by his past work and what's been shown of the game.  The latter is supported by wishful thinking.

The "it'll be mediocre" and "it'll be awesome" positions are not supported by the same amount of evidence.  They are not equally likely.  Saying "we'll see when we're gonna see" is all well and good, but it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.
Just because you are of the opinion that the wing commander series was nothing but medicore drab doesn't make it a fact. I'd just like to point out that you have done nothing but present your opinions as factual fact. It bugs me a little as makes you appear incredibly antagonistic in this whole thread.
I mean, I know you have a history of doing this. And we have butted heads before because of this. But man, chill out a bit. You are almost making me feel bad about agreeing on your star citizen related points because of how savage you're being.
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Offline Lorric

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
And no one here is pretending to know anything for certain.  But you need to get it into your head that it's perfectly sensible to make predictions based on what we've seen from CR before and what CIG have presented of this game and its setting thus far.  Maybe those predictions will turn out wrong, but expecting more of the same is a far safer prediction than expecting CR to make something genuinely interesting.  The former is supported by his past work and what's been shown of the game.  The latter is supported by wishful thinking.

The "it'll be mediocre" and "it'll be awesome" positions are not supported by the same amount of evidence.  They are not equally likely.  Saying "we'll see when we're gonna see" is all well and good, but it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.
Just because you are of the opinion that the wing commander series was nothing but medicore drab doesn't make it a fact. I'd just like to point out that you have done nothing but present your opinions as factual fact. It bugs me a little as makes you appear incredibly antagonistic in this whole thread.
I mean, I know you have a history of doing this. And we have butted heads before because of this. But man, chill out a bit. You are almost making me feel bad about agreeing on your star citizen related points because of how savage you're being.
I feel exactly the same way as you. While I do agree with what you said about Aesaar completely, it's the behaviour of the whole clique rather than just Aesaar singly that makes me feel that way (almost feel bad). Like I've wanted to talk about this stuff lately, but end up feeling kinda sorta like I'm part of the elitist dogpile even though I'm not and I just want to have a friendly talk.

I'd be surprised if us saying this made any difference though. This post is more in a you won't know unless you try vein and for the benefit of the people in the thread that I've been talking to in order to outline my own position in this thread so there's no confusion. So they know I'm not looking down on them or anything.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Just because you are of the opinion that the wing commander series was nothing but medicore drab doesn't make it a fact. I'd just like to point out that you have done nothing but present your opinions as factual fact. It bugs me a little as makes you appear incredibly antagonistic in this whole thread.
I mean, I know you have a history of doing this. And we have butted heads before because of this. But man, chill out a bit. You are almost making me feel bad about agreeing on your star citizen related points because of how savage you're being.
Everything I write is my opinion.  Some of it is also fact, but I think those bits are fairly obvious.  I'm not about to preface every paragraph I write with 'in my opinion'.

  
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
What do people credit Chris Roberts for exactly that gives him such credentials on Star Citizen?

Wing Commander I was done by Roberts
Wing Commander II was done by another guy
Wing Commander III was developed, engine wise, by another guy
A game like Wing Commander Privateer was developed by Erin Roberts not Chris.

I've always understood III and Privateer to be the most well-received games.

IV I understood to ride the coat-tails of III and with V, those coat tails were getting worn a bit thin.

If you look at the guy's wiki page it says:
Wing Commander was published later in 1990 and was highly acclaimed. Wing Commander (and the franchise it spawned) soon became Origin's most successful product. Roberts wasn't as heavily involved in the sequel Wing Commander II, which he only produced. He instead concentrated on Strike Commander. First shown to the public at Summer CES 1991, the project suffered from numerous delays and was not released until 1993. He returned to Wing Commander soon after, devising the original concept for the spin-off Wing Commander: Privateer (which his brother, Erin Roberts, produced) and being more deeply involved in Wing Commander III and Wing Commander IV. For these sequels, Roberts directed the live-action cinematic scenes.

Games are always a collaborative process and for someone who seems to jump in and out of the development pipeline it's not really clear to me why so much credit would be attributed to him.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I'm not about to preface every paragraph I write with 'in my opinion'.
Funny, that's usually how I do things and it in my experience, it works wonders while only taking me a few extra seconds to write.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
A game like Wing Commander Privateer was developed by Erin Roberts not Chris.

I've always understood III and Privateer to be the most well-received games.

Privateer was produced by Erin Roberts. Erin is also head of global production of Star Citizen, and his studio, Foundry 42, is deeply involved in all aspects of SC development. I just hope that he can keep this project on track..
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