Author Topic: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)  (Read 589026 times)

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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
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No, that's not what happens.  All that happens is that the Glaive's blades scoop the Constellation up.  That's what the guy in it was trying to do.

Perhaps. My point is, its a collision bug, not a flight model feature.

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Again, because of the way they design their ships and flight mechanics, this isn't something that can be easily fixed.  They've made a system where ship stats are intrinsically tied to the physics engine and ship models.  To fix this, they'd need to revamp the whole system.

Nope, they just need to tweak the ship mass / thruster power parameters. That is literally all there is to it. You can achieve any desired physically possible behaviour just by tweaking those numbers, as long as you have enough thrusters on all sides for 6DOF flight (which all ships have). Well, that and the max speed of course, which is another free parameter.

Inertia too low? Increase mass / decrease thruster power until it feels as desired. Inertia too high? Do the opposite.

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Hell, flying an Eagle in E:D  is much, much closer to Diaspora than SC is.  You haven't played it, have you?

Yes I have. And E:D model isnt fundamentally bad, they just need to get rid of the awful yaw limit.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
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No, that's not what happens.  All that happens is that the Glaive's blades scoop the Constellation up.  That's what the guy in it was trying to do.

Perhaps. My point is, its a collision bug, not a flight model feature.
It is not a collision bug.  It's a collision.  That's it.  This is just how SC ships interact when they collide (because they have no mass).  There's a dozen videos on Youtube that can attest to that fact.  It moves around because the Glaive pilot is maneuvering, but there's no bug there.  There's only two ships that have no real mass, one of which is making thruster inputs.  Hell, apparently someone submitted a support ticket and got told it was all working as intended, according to the Reddit comment thread.

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Nope, they just need to tweak the ship mass / thruster power parameters. That is literally all there is to it. You can achieve any desired physically possible behaviour just by tweaking those numbers, as long as you have enough thrusters on all sides for 6DOF flight (which all ships have). Well, that and the max speed of course, which is another free parameter.

Inertia too low? Increase mass / decrease thruster power until it feels as desired. Inertia too high? Do the opposite.
Not that easy.  See, you can't change turn rates without changing acceleration in every direction.  You can't make a ship that turns fast but has poor lateral movement, because it uses the same thrusters for both.  And that why ships feel so weightless: because they want fast, responsive turn speeds. 

To get fast, responsive turn speeds, ships need to have very powerful thrusters and low mass.  If they don't have that, ships feel sluggish and unresponsive in turns, and inertia makes them overshoot a lot because inertia is the enemy of fast and precise movement.  That's how it was for a while after AC released.  Ships flew like they had mass, but combined with their broken FBW controller, it wasn't terribly fun to fly and fixed weapons were completely useless.  Now ships are fairly responsive.  You don't overshoot much when turning.  But they have no mass.  There's absolutely no weight and no inertia to any movement.  And that's the problem with SC's flight model.  They've made it so you can't have the responsive handling a fast-paced fighter sim needs without having an essentially weightless ship.  This is an inevitable result of their physical thruster-based flight model.  It can't be fixed without cheating, and CR doesn't want to cheat because ~realism~.


Dogfight-related: whoever designed the cockpit warning sounds is a goddamn moron.  Constantly hearing "CONTACT, SCANNING, CONTACT, FLARE DEPLOYED, FLARE READY, CONTACT, SHIELD CHARGING, CONTACT, SHIELDS UP, FLARE DEPLOYED, FLARE READY, CONTACT, SCANNING" is just ****ing annoying.  Did no one listen to cockpit sounds from real aircraft before designing this crap?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 03:20:21 pm by Aesaar »

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
It's kinda funny, because I'm an original backer. I've got the Squadron 42 shirt and the bronze Citizen card they gave out ages ago. Arena Commander at the very start was AWESOME, if frustrating. Lag was so bad that I was at an extreme disadvantage. Fast forward a few years later and the game has progressed to the point where my system is unable to play Arena Commander without dropping to 10FPS and the sound stuttering and skipping to match the frame rate. I'm hugely disappointed, but want to hold on for some kind of hope that this turns out even remotely as advertised.

Still, I'm thinking about selling some of my pledged ships. I remember you could do that, but I'm unsure if that's still possible.
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Kszyhu

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I think all those sales made buying second-hand ships (or promises of ships) a less attractive option, but don't quote me on that.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
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You can't make a ship that turns fast but has poor lateral movement, because it uses the same thrusters for both.

Why the hell would you want to do such a thing?

You have either light ships that move fast and turn fast (fighters), or heavy ships that move slowly and turn slowly (capital ships). And of course the spectrum in between.. But there is no reason to have a ship that both turns fast AND has poor lateral movement. It would just look weird.

Small ships in SC, like Glaive, behave well. The problem is that bigger ships (like Constellation) have too little mass/inertia compared to the small ones, and so move and turn too quickly, not only when reacting to their own thrusters (which can always be adjusted in power), but also to external impulses. But this was apparently fixed in one of the latest patches, at least when it comes to the Constellation, which now has increased mass. I will test it after 2.0 download is finished.

Increasing the mass of the Constellation compared to the Glaive is literally all it takes to fix the situation in your gif (assuming its not a bug). Then you can perhaps increase the Constellation thruster output to compensate, but I would not want that much, such a big ship should feel more sluggish.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I think all those sales made buying second-hand ships (or promises of ships) a less attractive option, but don't quote me on that.

My ships come with the lifetime insurance. :P
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Kszyhu

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Isn't LTI common now thanks to CIG still selling ships with the insurance? I didn't really follow that facet of development, but at least some people seem to agree: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3tlvcc/ccu_has_killed_lti_just_give_prebeta_ships_lti/
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 02:20:11 pm by Kszyhu »

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Why the hell would you want to do such a thing?
So ship turning is fast and responsive like you want for a fast-paced fighter sim, but other ship movements actually have some inertia.  So you don't need to have a null-mass fighter with maneuvering thrusters that are nearly as powerful as the main thruster just so it won't turn like a cow. 

Moot point because their system can't do it.


Cobra: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_trades

You're not gonna get the prices you'd have gotten last year, but LTI ships should still make a profit.  I strongly recommend using a middleman.  I used Kane.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 03:19:47 pm by Aesaar »

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen

Cobra: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_trades

You're not gonna get the prices you'd have gotten last year, but LTI ships should still make a profit.  I strongly recommend using a middleman.  I used Kane.

I don't even know how any of this **** works. :blah:
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen

Cobra: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_trades

You're not gonna get the prices you'd have gotten last year, but LTI ships should still make a profit.  I strongly recommend using a middleman.  I used Kane.

I don't even know how any of this **** works. :blah:

Make a Reddit account, read through this, message the guy about the ship or ships you want to sell, and follow his instructions.  You'll need a verified paypal account.

 

Offline Hades

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
If that's a daunting prospect for you it's also possible to get a refund from CIG directly, though they'll try their damned hardest to hold on to the money as keeping Ben fed is incredibly expensive
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
If that's a daunting prospect for you it's also possible to get a refund from CIG directly, though they'll try their damned hardest to hold on to the money as keeping Ben fed is incredibly expensive

:facepalm:

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
at this early stage of development i don't think we can really draw any conclusions about the quality of duke nukem forever as a finished product
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
If that's a daunting prospect for you it's also possible to get a refund from CIG directly, though they'll try their damned hardest to hold on to the money as keeping Ben fed is incredibly expensive

Not that daunting, but more like I don't even know how to use Reddit right now. :P I'm not even going to try to get a refund, since I already know I probably won't get it back. I'm keeping my main pledges though, in case something DOES happen.
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

  

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
While it's funny to see Cultizens talk about how ridiculously super realistic innovative and whatever SC is going to be you can't really compare India's space program to videogames.
I mean, SW:TOR cost $200M and it wasn't doing anything that different aside from polish(and full VA). GTA V was pretty much a standard GTA game with MORE stuff and it cost $137M to develop and a ****-ton more to market.

Videogames more expensive than most real-life groundbreaking sscience is nothing new.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
If you want to compare Star Citizen to a video game, why not compare it to something that's cheaper?

Witcher 3 was 81 million
Skyrim was likewise 80 million

And these games are done.

Comparing it to TOR or GTA5 is actually misleading in my opinion because those games are renown as some of the most expensive games of the modern age, and they are not representative of the norm.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 12:30:45 am by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
If you want to compare Star Citizen to a video game, why not compare it to something that's cheaper?

Witcher 3 was 81 million
Skyrim was likewise 80 million

And these games are done.

Comparing it to TOR or GTA5 is actually misleading in my opinion because those games are renown as some of the most expensive games of the modern age, and they are not representative of the norm.

Star Citizen scope and ambition is also not representative of the norm, so comparison to such average games would be misleading.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Yeah, the Witcher 3 stayed focused on what it wanted to do and released on time as a good game. SC on the other hand is much more 'ambitious' like Duke Nukem Forever.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded