Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Snail on May 12, 2007, 08:15:52 am

Title: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on May 12, 2007, 08:15:52 am
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2637/fspaper1so4.png)

Found this monstrosity on the Volition site (yes, I know, I have no life, etc, etc)

Thought it might inspire someone to do a HTL Ulysses since the Ulysses was really lacking detail which was holding it back. Well here's your HTL model (if only :v:'d release all this sh1t then we wouldn't need to do it)! :D
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Einstine909 on May 12, 2007, 08:43:28 am
i would try that... but i use blender, i cant figure how to get the proper hierarchy with it to export to PCS. VA mentioned that everything could be done in blender, but i havent seen anything yet. He uses blender though, so mabey if i model it he will do the rest. or ill PM him, and see how he does it.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on May 12, 2007, 08:52:00 am
It'll be in the upcoming tutorial, but I'll answer any questions you have any time. :)

Quoted from a previous thread:



There is a way to get your Blender models into TS ready for hierarchy conversion. It will require that you set up your parts so they look something like this in Blenders outliner view:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/BlenderTutorialStuff/OutlinerView.jpg

Notice that there's no hierarchy there. I did a lot of exporting experimentation and found that none of the formats will preserve that, so there's no point in assembling it in Blender.  TS is actually better for that bit anyway.

So, once I'm at that stage, I export it as a DirectX .X file (just press the export all button). From there, open it up in 3d exploration (D/L it here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/FAQ/Downloads/3DExplorer_v181.rar) and re-save it as a COB.
Because of Truespace' crappy importing, that's the only way you can get it to keep the objects separate. You'll still lose the object names and centres, but it's not too hard to figure them out again and they will retain their textures, positions relative to each other, and you'd have to redo their centres anyway.

Opening it up in TS, you'll see something like this in the scene editor: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/BlenderTutorialStuff/TS_ImportedHeirarchy.jpg

From there just figure out what is what, set it up in TS as you would any other ships hierarchy, save to COB or SCN and convert using TS. Have a look at Karajorma's turreting tutorial for more help there. :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on May 13, 2007, 02:15:46 pm
A question about the Ulysses that's always been bugging me, but now that we might get a cockpit for it it's time to decide: Is the Ulysses cockpit a sit-down cockpit like most of the other FS fightercraft, or is it more akin to say...the Myrmidon, with a stand-up cockpit?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: jr2 on May 14, 2007, 01:42:26 am
I think maybe sit-down TIE fighter-style.  IDK.

(if only :v:'d release all this sh1t then we wouldn't need to do it)! :D

:v: has all their FS1 data backed up on tape drives, which have become corrupted.  If you want, I can post it.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: S-99 on May 23, 2007, 03:46:53 pm
That's a kickass ulysses. I'd fly it again if it looked that much more kickass.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on May 23, 2007, 03:50:22 pm
I think maybe sit-down TIE fighter-style.  IDK.

(if only :v:'d release all this sh1t then we wouldn't need to do it)! :D

:v: has all their FS1 data backed up on tape drives, which have become corrupted.  If you want, I can post it.

TAPE drives? As in floppies?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: taylor on May 23, 2007, 05:04:36 pm
:v: has all their FS1 data backed up on tape drives, which have become corrupted.  If you want, I can post it.
Do you have images of the tapes, or just copies of the content?  Recreating data like that is far easier to do from full images, at least for me.  I wouldn't mind taking a look at what you've got.  I'm not that great at data recovery, comparatively, but I have had to deal with more than a few occasions where I had to do it (from hard drives, floppies, and particularly tapes).
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: RazorsKiss on May 23, 2007, 07:40:06 pm
I think he was talking about reposting something where V *said* they had it on corrupted tapes.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: taylor on May 23, 2007, 08:08:16 pm
I think he was talking about reposting something where V *said* they had it on corrupted tapes.
Well, that sucks.  I already knew that much. :)

I thought that someone had actually gotten ahold of the data so that some sort of recovery could be done.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: jr2 on May 24, 2007, 01:21:23 am
I wish... I suppose I could contact them & see if they wouldn't mind... eh, but if they did decide to hire data recovery specialists (which they said they were considering), then maybe better let them handle it.  Couldn't hurt to try, though.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: S-99 on May 24, 2007, 06:04:50 pm
You know the response you're going to get from V. Best to let them handle stuff because they are apparently busy people with maintenance stuff for the fs series on the back burner. Best to be a little a bother as possible, and maybe they'll get to it.
Then again some people around here aren't afraid to let loose with messages back to V, so as long as we have those few courageous, we should take advantage of them in a responsible manner.
Really in the forums somebody should put up a stickied thread with all the messages sent to V and all of the replies, so we make sure we don't ask them the same questions a million times over again. I know many on this forum have done so without even thinking about it, and i don't mean one person. One person will send in a question to V, and a new member will join the hlpbb and send in the same question to V. This is just an example, there's other ways this has happened before too, mainly just from normal members with a curiousity not researching the forums to see whether or not that question they have was answered by V or not. Yet again, searching the forums is good.

Speaking of that picture, that's one high detail ulysses, and that's one averagely fs1 non-htl ursa :lol: Wierd combination, high not in-game detail, along with average in-game detail (the original non-htl ursa of course).
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Commander Zane on May 24, 2007, 08:35:24 pm
So it is.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on May 25, 2007, 11:24:37 am
blady blady blady bla bla bla bla blah blady blady blah blah BLAH

Well The Mail ManTM has gotten a response from :v: before.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: CP5670 on May 25, 2007, 11:45:55 am
I've thought about contacting Volition on more than one occasion about the high resolution textures and other content that we're missing, after seeing how successful Nix was with the music files. I never had time to write down anything seriously, but now that I'm on break I may give it a try at some point.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on May 25, 2007, 01:22:40 pm
I think we should all stop people from mailing :v: and all have our queries sent through a single person so :v: gets to a) know that person and not delete his messages and b) they will stop getting the same request multiple times.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: CP5670 on May 25, 2007, 01:44:27 pm
Nix would be the logical choice there, seeing as he has already dealt with them, but he is quite busy these days.

I think the main thing we could use is the high resolution textures for the FS2-only ships. They were in the FS1 data files but not in FS2. They appear in the cutscenes and a few renders we have, and it's clear that they would provide a tremendous graphical improvement.

The other thing is all the cutscene material, including the various models and background art that was used. I don't know exactly who owns that stuff at this point though. I seem to remember some problem with that being part of the Freespace universe rather than any game, and consequently being Interplay property, although this issue last came up many years ago.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on May 25, 2007, 01:47:39 pm
I'd like to see the original Shivan models...

I wonder if they have any unfinished concept models that were abandoned... Those would be seriously treasured by me.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: S-99 on May 25, 2007, 03:13:56 pm
It would now?

Arfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbark

Hmm i see. That would be treasured.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on May 25, 2007, 03:42:51 pm
blablablabla BLADY BLADY BLADY BLAH!

Well it's true that they would be treasured since they are actual Volition stuff, not fanmade things. They would be more important than fan models even if they were not completed. They could be early concepts, old models or unfinished stuff. No matter what they are they would be valuable.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Commander Zane on May 25, 2007, 11:16:58 pm
It would now?

Arfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbarkarfyarfbark

Hmm i see. That would be treasured.
You forgot to put the random "Charlie" in the middle of the text.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: S-99 on May 25, 2007, 11:38:00 pm
blablablabla BLADY BLADY BLADY BLAH!
Yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark arfyarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark yarfarfbark ARF YARF BARK!!!

Yes the original models would be more valuable. I'm curious what they look like. I mean we've seen some models perform in the fs videos, but that's about it to let you know there's a ton of stuff you haven't seen. On the other hand it's easily believable that htl models have already surpassed what V has done, but in the area of hi-res fs2 textures that would be nice to have.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Grizzly on May 26, 2007, 07:33:32 am
Quote from: snail
Found this monstrosity on the Volition site (yes, I know, I have no life, etc, etc)

You DO have a life.

A virtual one...

I don't think we can get that model from [V]iolition, as it is used in an image wich is probably not a screenshot, and therefore is not compatible with the game. Also, I think it got deleted anyway.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on May 26, 2007, 07:36:29 am
It's not an image, it's a render in some 3D program most likely, which means there must have been the models used for the scene.... I heard :v: used 3DSMax to make their renders and models.... Hmm...
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Nuke on May 26, 2007, 11:58:15 pm
i sorta lost intrest in this i guess. but if i should suddenly decide on an htl helbat for nukemod, il need an htl ulyses as a base :D
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: lefkos on May 29, 2007, 03:14:59 pm
It's not an image, it's a render in some 3D program most likely, which means there must have been the models used for the scene.... I heard :v: used 3DSMax to make their renders and models.... Hmm...
the only thing to do is find an experienced modeller that has time right?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: jr2 on May 29, 2007, 03:17:47 pm
Ya, I guess... any volunteers?  :D
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on May 29, 2007, 03:19:26 pm
It's not an image, it's a render in some 3D program most likely, which means there must have been the models used for the scene.... I heard :v: used 3DSMax to make their renders and models.... Hmm...
the only thing to do is find an experienced modeller that has time right?

Well that's our only choice here.

Asking :v: for the original model is not an option...
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: jr2 on May 29, 2007, 03:36:06 pm
Actually... you could ask, they *might* do something.. I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on June 01, 2007, 04:09:19 pm
You could ask them since they already know you.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: aRaven on June 01, 2007, 06:16:01 pm
the guy who did the tables at Volition could ask :D
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: jr2 on June 01, 2007, 11:02:24 pm
ROFL... actually, my recent e-mails I've attempted have been bounced back... mailer daemon failure.  Perhaps they had to change it...  :sigh:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on June 02, 2007, 09:22:09 am
the guy who did the tables at Volition could ask :D

You mean takashi? :wakka:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: S-99 on June 02, 2007, 05:13:56 pm
You know pair him up with some good soap and a wash cloth, and you'll see how great he is at tables. Maybe if you get him to come over to your home that needs some clean tables perhaps you can teach him about windows, he might get very xp'd at that. Just don't give him any java or he'll go hyperly crazy. Then again  he also has a fragmented alphabet starting out with assembly and going to c and c++. He just doesn't know what he's talking about most of the time.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: StarSlayer on June 03, 2007, 12:06:23 am
the guy who did the tables at Volition could ask :D

You mean takashi? :wakka:

He downgraded his Volition involvement on GW so that he did a 'internship' at Volition.  Course I could PM him on GW with your request if only to get his response  :P
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: S-99 on June 03, 2007, 01:37:43 am
Only hlpbb can pipe out V stalkers :D
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on June 03, 2007, 07:20:22 am
takashi, takashi, takashi...

I really wonder what he was on about anyway.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: S-99 on June 03, 2007, 07:08:13 pm
takashi, takashi, takashi...

I really wonder what he was on about anyway.

Hallucinagens
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Flipside on June 03, 2007, 07:19:02 pm
/me waits for the thread to get back on topic....
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: WeatherOp on June 03, 2007, 09:24:00 pm
/me waits for the thread to get back on topic....

*Digs Flip's grave right beside where he is standing.

 :p
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: achtung on June 04, 2007, 12:44:19 am
ROFL... actually, my recent e-mails I've attempted have been bounced back... mailer daemon failure.  Perhaps they had to change it...  :sigh:
http://volition-inc.com/Contact/

I think they don't want people e-mailing them directly anymore.

You could always call them though, I provide no guarantee you'd get past the receptionist.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Topgun on June 05, 2007, 01:05:09 pm
the guy who did the tables at Volition could ask :D

You mean takashi? :wakka:

He downgraded his Volition involvement on GW so that he did a 'internship' at Volition.  Course I could PM him on GW with your request if only to get his response  :P

please do! I wonder how he will react?

Takashi/ oh, i don't talk to those guys any more... but if you want I can make my own ulssys (bad spelling on purpose) just after I finish my shined Kato :D \takashi
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on June 05, 2007, 02:33:47 pm
I can tell you now it will be almost identical to that.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on July 29, 2008, 10:38:38 pm
This is a Ulysses i've made as a basis for a modification i have in mind. I know it is not a great model, not even a prototype (it's the official fighter whith some work on it) but i think we can use it until a better one appears.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on July 29, 2008, 10:55:07 pm
That's actually not a bad start, but like you said it could use some work.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on July 29, 2008, 11:37:26 pm
The Ulysses is seriously going to need a better cockpit.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on July 30, 2008, 12:59:50 am
The Ulysses is seriously going to need a better cockpit.

 :nod:I agree. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on July 30, 2008, 08:00:13 am
An unconventional one at least. Maybe something like the 2001: A Space Odyssey EVA pods.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on July 30, 2008, 10:09:02 pm
As is there's really no visibility in the cockpit. You can't see sideways through the wings and you can't see above you because of the roof. While I like the design of the fighter, it doesn't seem logical to design such a cockpit.

Maybe there's something with Terran space superiority fighters (minus the all purpose Apollo). The Myrmidon has a similar cockpit problem.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on July 30, 2008, 10:43:18 pm
obviously the visibility is the major problem. The side glasses allow some side visibility but there is no solution frot the back and the above. I'm thinking to solve this with an external cockpit model which will have  "installed" monitors in the roof and the back side off the cockpit
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on July 30, 2008, 11:13:12 pm
I just find it interesting that the Ulysses has this problem as well as the ship designed to replace it (the Myrmidon).

You'd think the dogfighters would have the best visibility, not the worst. Or perhaps both the Ulysses and Myrmidon share a pilot "sitting" position other than the standard cockpit chair setup (standing or otherwise).
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on July 30, 2008, 11:26:38 pm
Well, beauty is usualy in trouble. I'm working on it but i don't think i can avoid the "sitting" position, mainly for conventional reasons.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Mars on July 30, 2008, 11:50:26 pm
Maybe the actual window view is supported by a projection?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: bfobar on July 31, 2008, 02:14:19 am
When I look at that cockpit I imagine the pilot straddling something, like he's in an enclosed motorcycle, or one of those membari fighter positions where you lay on your stomach.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on July 31, 2008, 11:16:26 am
When I look at that cockpit I imagine the pilot straddling something, like he's in an enclosed motorcycle, or one of those membari fighter positions where you lay on your stomach.
That makes sense.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on July 31, 2008, 12:11:37 pm
Oooh. That'd be interesting.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on July 31, 2008, 01:03:47 pm
So far, the "enclosed motorcycle" layout is the only solution. The position where the pilot is laying on his stomach is uncomfortable 'couse the pilot will have to look straigt ahead.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: bfobar on July 31, 2008, 02:06:40 pm
I would be uncomfortable like spending a long time on a racing superbike (which i understand isn't very pleasant compared to sitting in a mercedes benz e class or something). Of course the ulysses handles like a crotch rocket, so maybe it fits.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: bfobar on July 31, 2008, 02:12:41 pm
(http://www.dragbikenz.com/images/brett_troy.jpg)
here is a drag racing motorcycle.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o104/ASNugroho/Track%20Days%20-%20Race%209%20Dec%202007/_DSC0131a.jpg)
and here is a track motorcycle.

I try to imaging the bike minus the front fork and rear tires to see how much volume the position would take up.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on July 31, 2008, 02:30:07 pm
Consessive position for the front-side-rear view, but try to look upwards sitting like this.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on July 31, 2008, 06:32:49 pm
Damn, I can't find a picture of the cockpit oft he Gurren Nikishi...(because it is piloted like a motorcycle).
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 31, 2008, 09:05:02 pm
I was about to mention that. If you'll wait a moment I can give you a screenshot of the cockpit that elicited many a Symbian fan art.

There's this one:
(http://mahq.net/mecha/codegeass/geass-tv/lineart/type-02-cockpit.jpg)

Or the coloured, and much more interesting one.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/sohmingjian/vlcsnap-32300.png)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on July 31, 2008, 11:37:39 pm
Yes, the sketch could be a good reference (as could the one with the pilot in it :P)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 01, 2008, 06:14:30 am
Well, my season one eps are on my hard drive. The season ones have less ... uh ... interesting pictures of the cockpits. And the Gurren is not the only one with a motorcycle cockpit. There are the ones used by the Shiseiken, but I can't remember what their Knightmares are called.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 01, 2008, 07:32:18 am
To be honest I think the cockpits look kinda stupid right now. IMO they should be less transparent than they are now, so you can still see through them but you can't see the dude's face.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 02, 2008, 03:51:45 am
Second thoughts.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 02, 2008, 07:25:36 am
Might I be the first to say ... it looks weird.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Mars on August 02, 2008, 07:34:13 am
I like the concept... however...

It really does look like he's humping that console.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 02, 2008, 10:46:26 am
On second thought maybe just make the cockpit similar to a TIE fighter? I like where it's going (motorcycle), however it remains to be seen if it can look decent. The way it is doesn't look SO bad, it just doesn't look natural. If he looked a bit more comfortable and relaxed it might make it look better.

I'm really glad somebody is finally making an HTL Ulysses though. It always seemed odd to me that although it seemed to be the first ship to get a lot of new features, it never made it into HTL.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 02, 2008, 10:56:45 am
It really does look like he's humping that console.
Change it into a girl and it'll all be fine.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 02, 2008, 11:55:18 am
It really does look like he's humping that console.
Change it into a girl and it'll all be fine.
:nod:

Second thoughts.

*pictures*
I'd move the guy back a bit. Looks like he's going to go through the window during a stop or a dive.

Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 02, 2008, 11:57:25 am
It really does look like he's humping that console.
Change it into a girl and it'll all be fine.
How can you tell if its a girl if she's wearing a pilot suit?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 02, 2008, 12:22:57 pm
The face, and the general body shape, duh!
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 02, 2008, 12:27:06 pm
I propose she wear a bunny suit! With a helmet.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 02, 2008, 12:33:46 pm
Emperor Pirk's orders: At this date, I have ordered an immediate change of wardrobe for all female terran pilots.

(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z184/53RG10_0/BLOG%20STUFF/Tsundere%20no%20Koto/Evangelion_AsukaLangleySoryuuSMALL.jpg?)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 02, 2008, 12:35:30 pm
Isn't that Asuka from NGE?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 02, 2008, 12:37:35 pm
Of course not. It is a terran fighter pilot now.

EDIT:

...Okay, so it is. </spam>


Seriously though, I don't think prone position would be too stressful. It isn't too bad on a rifle range while shooting, and you could always tilt it upwards some 20-30 degrees depending on pilot preference. The "bat-bike" position showed in the screenshots doesn't look very natural IMHO, regardless of what kind of flight suit the pilot is wearing...

My suggestion would be to either have the pilot leaning more forward so that the legs are actually behind the torso, while being supported on some kind of recliner or whatnot, or have the pilot lean backwards. Or you could steal a page from B5 and use a StarFury setup - just strap the pilot on the back wall of the cockpit in an upright position.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 02, 2008, 12:40:35 pm
Hrm, alright. No objections.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 02, 2008, 01:14:23 pm
It really does look like he's humping that console.
Change it into a girl and it'll all be fine.
:nod:

Second thoughts.

*pictures*
I'd move the guy back a bit. Looks like he's going to go through the window during a stop or a dive.



O.K. but just a bit.
At first i was very sceptical about this, so i 've made this draft, just to prove me wright. But after seeing the result, i find this solution perfect, mainly because It fits perfectly with the bat's shape. However, i'll be glad to make something more acceptable for the official fighter. This one will not be wasted, i will use it to my modification off the bat.
Of course not. It is a terran fighter pilot now.

EDIT:

...Okay, so it is. </spam>


Seriously though, I don't think prone position would be too stressful. It isn't too bad on a rifle range while shooting, and you could always tilt it upwards some 20-30 degrees depending on pilot preference. The "bat-bike" position showed in the screenshots doesn't look very natural IMHO, regardless of what kind of flight suit the pilot is wearing...

My suggestion would be to either have the pilot leaning more forward so that the legs are actually behind the torso, while being supported on some kind of recliner or whatnot, or have the pilot lean backwards. Or you could steal a page from B5 and use a StarFury setup - just strap the pilot on the back wall of the cockpit in an upright position.

The (center off the) legs are behind the  (center off the) torso and supported, perhaps the renderings are not so descriptive.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Gregster2k on August 02, 2008, 09:53:15 pm
It's late for me to say this, but I agree, the Guren Nishiki design (for the Ulysses) wins. Hell, now I want to see what it'd look like in other fighters...
Oh, hell, the real reason I'm saying it is...woo, fellow Code Geass fans! Awesome!

Even better question -- how does a Vasudan sit in a Ulysses? ;7
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Retsof on August 02, 2008, 10:02:39 pm
They have the came general body shape as humans, so I'd expect the same way.  And NOBODY post that horible picture I know you are all thinking about.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 02, 2008, 10:24:26 pm
I'd personally vote for a motorcycle cockpit in the HTL Ulysses. Its just a cockpit, so it's no major canon issue or anything, plus, its different approach than the standard chair cockpits.

And yeah. (come to think of it, are there any Vasudan fighters which have cockpit models?)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 02, 2008, 10:33:56 pm
I'm willing to make 3-4 drafts off all the proposals so far.  Then we can decide about it (those off us, like me, who think that it is important).
I'd personally vote for a motorcycle cockpit in the HTL Ulysses. Its just a cockpit, so it's no major canon issue or anything, plus, its different approach than the standard chair cockpits.

And yeah. (come to think of it, are there any Vasudan fighters which have cockpit models?)

Don't really know but i think i'll design one for the bat.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 02, 2008, 10:40:42 pm
Well, I'll be using the motorcycle one XD (unless you surprise me with something else, that is :P)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 02, 2008, 10:48:22 pm
No way, i loved the "motorcycle" from the moment i saw it as a draft.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 02, 2008, 10:57:15 pm
Oh damn, I mis-read :P
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 02, 2008, 11:00:42 pm
No, it's probably my "broken english".
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: lostllama on August 03, 2008, 10:27:25 am
I'm willing to make 3-4 drafts off all the proposals so far.  Then we can decide about it (those off us, like me, who think that it is important).
I'd personally vote for a motorcycle cockpit in the HTL Ulysses. Its just a cockpit, so it's no major canon issue or anything, plus, its different approach than the standard chair cockpits.

And yeah. (come to think of it, are there any Vasudan fighters which have cockpit models?)

Don't really know but i think i'll design one for the bat.

Taristin started making a Vasudan pilot mesh a while ago.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45152.80.html (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45152.80.html)

There's a pic of a Shivan one a bit further along the thread.

Edit: Oops - sorry, actually Aldo might've been responsible for the Vasudan mesh, not Taristin.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 03, 2008, 11:21:46 am
He's called Bob.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Bobboau on August 03, 2008, 11:22:19 am
are those missiles modeled in? you know there is code for rendering the missile model on the missile points right?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on August 03, 2008, 12:46:48 pm
are those missiles modeled in? you know there is code for rendering the missile model on the missile points right?

I don't really think that would work well in this scenario.  Missiles vary too much in size for it to look right all of the time.  I think that code is better suited to cases where the ships and the missiles were designed to work together (such as Steve-O's fighter pack).
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 03, 2008, 02:58:22 pm
Although I think most of the missiles a space superiority fighter like the Ulysses would be using would be similar in size (except for Furies/Tempests).

Still if it were me, I'd add the standard "missile holes" that are on other fighters instead of displaying missiles.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 03, 2008, 03:47:55 pm
I'm willing to make 3-4 drafts off all the proposals so far.  Then we can decide about it (those off us, like me, who think that it is important).
I'd personally vote for a motorcycle cockpit in the HTL Ulysses. Its just a cockpit, so it's no major canon issue or anything, plus, its different approach than the standard chair cockpits.

And yeah. (come to think of it, are there any Vasudan fighters which have cockpit models?)

Don't really know but i think i'll design one for the bat.

Taristin started making a Vasudan pilot mesh a while ago.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45152.80.html (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45152.80.html)

There's a pic of a Shivan one a bit further along the thread.

Edit: Oops - sorry, actually Aldo might've been responsible for the Vasudan mesh, not Taristin.

Thank's i'll use this.

Although I think most of the missiles a space superiority fighter like the Ulysses would be using would be similar in size (except for Furies/Tempests).

Still if it were me, I'd add the standard "missile holes" that are on other fighters instead of displaying missiles.

Good idea, solves problems.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 03, 2008, 11:54:09 pm
I'd just add black circles to the texture, the align the texture approximately over where you want the hole to be.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on August 04, 2008, 12:00:24 am
I'd just keep the missiles.  But that's just me :nervous:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 04, 2008, 12:07:48 am
They are more beautiful but not right. You fire a missile and it stays there, besides the fact that the looks off them dont fit to any missile in the game.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 04, 2008, 03:34:24 am
Well, s'not like you're gonna stop while dodging flak and go: Wait, I have empty secondary banks, but missiles in my wings?!?!?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 04, 2008, 08:59:52 am
Whatever armament you choose, you still have three of these mystery missiles. Sure they do look kind of cool, but I never liked them as far as "realism" goes. Sure aspects of the game aren't realistic, but having fake missiles just doesn't make logical sense. Besides, all the other fighters have holes. Sounds like fighter01.pof had missiles, and they changed their minds with the rest.

If you're not going to notice what's decorating where your missiles fire from, you won't notice if they've been replaced with the missiles "holes" that every other fighter has.:)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Topgun on August 04, 2008, 09:09:32 am
isn't there a feature that shows the missile you are firing? like you tell the table where the missiles should be and the game puts them there.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Gregster2k on August 04, 2008, 02:12:53 pm
This reminds me of Descent 2, where the cutscenes always show four Concussion Missiles strapped to your ship, even though your ship can carry way, way more armament than that -- and the ingame model always shows two giant mystery missiles regardless of how many secondaries you are actually carrying.

If we're going to pull the realism card, have we tried visualizing where the hundreds of missiles in any given FreeSpace fighter are crammed?

Ace Combat solves the "more missiles than visually reasonable" problem by simply having more missiles magically appear on their pylons after they are fired. Maybe by using animation code and having correct missile models sticking out of ships, firing missiles could have new missiles "push out" and load into position. *puts a nuclear symbol on a searchlight and beams it at the sky*
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 04, 2008, 10:25:03 pm
Fitting missiles under the wings of a ship is one thing, fitting three (you can't adjust how many are shown on a per weapon basis) missiles into an opening without knowing how big the missiles are is another.

If I space the weapon points and make the opening big enough so I can fit three harpoons/interceptors so they're fairly close together and look good three tempests will look weird just floating there. Other missiles are different sizes as well (although not as much as, say, a bomber that can carry Tempests and Cyclops).

The other scenario involves modeling three generic missiles in the pods and whatever you fire launches from them. When you're empty; they're stocked. When you're mounting X weapon; they're still generic missiles. If we're going to have a generic model "plate" over/around the missile launching area why not just make it like all the other fighters?

EDIT: If it gets to be too heated of an issue, why don't we see if two versions can be produced and compared? (if peterv is willing, of course)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 04, 2008, 10:38:55 pm
Imagine if you tried to show Helio's on a Myrmidon.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 04, 2008, 11:14:22 pm
Imagine if you tried to show Helio's on a Myrmidon.
that would be funny XD.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: bfobar on August 04, 2008, 11:28:36 pm
Yeah, I'd just go with the tubes. There's a ton of potential goofee looking problems trying to avoid it.

The only alternative I could think of would be some sort of subobject that has different tube sizes, small, medium, or large, depending on the size of missile in the bank. At least then your trebs come out of treb sized holes. That would require redoing all of the fighters though. And I'm sorry but I'm not going to volunteer for that.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Bobboau on August 04, 2008, 11:47:53 pm
having correct missile models sticking out of ships, firing missiles could have new missiles "push out" and load into position. *puts a nuclear symbol on a searchlight and beams it at the sky*

why don't people see what exists before suggesting it be reinvented...
that's exactly how external missiles work right now! you specify which banks have visible missiles and it will draw the missile model at each point, when a missile is fired the model for that bank is pushed back behind a clipping plane (i.e. not drawn) and slowly moved back forward (the clipping plane only allows what is in front of it to be drawn), if there are only so many missile left it will not push them forward past that point. the system works really really really well, but a lot of people never test it out because they assume it doesn't work really well.

if you space your firing points out properly you can usually get an arrangement where you run out of firing points before you run out of missiles with large missiles
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 05, 2008, 12:26:09 am
I've actually used it several times to add a few 'external' missiles to fighters (a Valkyrie with a few missiles strapped underneath, or an Apollo carrying a few light torpedoes).

Nifty little feature actually.:)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 05, 2008, 03:38:01 am
Does eny off you pilots knows how a vasudan pilot suit look like?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Mars on August 05, 2008, 03:41:21 am
Please refer to the briefing cutscene in Freepsace 1

Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 05, 2008, 02:57:39 pm
Sorry, i cannot find enything there.

EDIT: If it gets to be too heated of an issue, why don't we see if two versions can be produced and compared? (if peterv is willing, of course)

That's easy.

having correct missile models sticking out of ships, firing missiles could have new missiles "push out" and load into position. *puts a nuclear symbol on a searchlight and beams it at the sky*

why don't people see what exists before suggesting it be reinvented...
that's exactly how external missiles work right now! you specify which banks have visible missiles and it will draw the missile model at each point, when a missile is fired the model for that bank is pushed back behind a clipping plane (i.e. not drawn) and slowly moved back forward (the clipping plane only allows what is in front of it to be drawn), if there are only so many missile left it will not push them forward past that point. the system works really really really well, but a lot of people never test it out because they assume it doesn't work really well.

if you space your firing points out properly you can usually get an arrangement where you run out of firing points before you run out of missiles with large missiles

I'm not familiar whit this, are there any special futures that must  be added to the model?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 05, 2008, 03:04:58 pm
The secondary (or primary banks) can be set in the table on a model per model, bank per bank basis.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on August 06, 2008, 01:41:47 am
Upper half of Vasudan pilot suit over here:

(http://i36.tinypic.com/1qid6a.jpg)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 06, 2008, 01:57:46 am
Right, thanks and my apologies to Mars. Anything for the lower part? Otherwise i'm afraid i'll have to improvise.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 06, 2008, 02:44:24 am
Right, thanks and my apologies to Mars. Anything for the lower part? Otherwise i'm afraid i'll have to improvise.
Yeah, there's that FS1 cbanimation. If anyone has FS1 installed on their computer, mind pulling it out?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 06, 2008, 03:19:55 am
Right, thanks and my apologies to Mars. Anything for the lower part? Otherwise i'm afraid i'll have to improvise.
Yeah, there's that FS1 cbanimation. If anyone has FS1 installed on their computer, mind pulling it out?
The FSPort won't do?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 06, 2008, 05:31:03 am
FSPort would do, yeah, but I don't have it installed at the moment.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 06, 2008, 07:12:27 am
Which cb anim then?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 06, 2008, 07:21:38 am
To be honest, I have absolutely no idea.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 06, 2008, 09:30:59 am
I just looked at the cb_ani from FS1 (the tech on the Ulysses) and it appears to have been made from the game model, not the hi-poly one.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 16, 2008, 09:07:00 am
After modifying the table here are the results, using 3 missile slots per side.
Now, the Ylysses uses by default 1 missile slot per side, which condratictes both the volition high poly model and the default model. My opinion is to use the default set for missile slots (1 slot per side, 1 visible missile per side), what's yours?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 16, 2008, 09:20:08 am
It looks really out of place. My advice would be to just leave the old skool nose cones visible, and we'll call them internal bay doors that open and close fast enough that you can't see the missiles coming out as they are launched.


That, and having open missile bays would be a bad idea considering the level of debris in battlefields... all it would take is one piece of metal getting stuck between a missile and the bay, and you get an internal missile firing. :shaking:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 16, 2008, 11:23:42 am
After modifying the table here are the results, using 3 missile slots per side.
Now, the Ulysses uses by default 1 missile slot per side, which condratictes both the volition high poly model and the default model. My opinion is to use the default set for missile slots (1 slot per side, 1 visible missile per side), what's yours?

 :ick:

I agree. Just go ahead and stick with generic looking nose cones and we'll call them covers.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Bobboau on August 17, 2008, 03:05:27 am
or try moving the missile points back a few meters first.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 17, 2008, 05:00:40 am
or try moving the missile points back a few meters first.

I did. I've tried several points. The problem is the size off the missiles like EMP, or even the ROCKEYE. Their diameter is bigger than  the wings height, (which i streched as much as i could without destroying the shape off the fighter). Iff i move the points back the missiles will penetrate the wing. Not to mention that they penetrate each other in order to fit in the triple missile bay.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 17, 2008, 01:04:38 pm
I just don't think showing the missiles is a good idea. The feature works best, IMO, on ships where the missiles are carried under the wings (like the starfury in TBP).
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: WMCoolmon on August 17, 2008, 06:50:35 pm
It looks a lot less threatening with that cockpit - it could use some tinting and shine. That little humping Terran dude looks awfully vulnerable right now...
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 18, 2008, 03:56:34 am
To be perfectly honest I preferred FS2 when you couldn't see the dude inside. I dunno, it seemed a little silly to me.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Galemp on August 18, 2008, 09:06:38 am
The solution's simple enough... just edit glass.tga and turn the opacity up to 80%. Looks much better.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 18, 2008, 09:29:10 am
The solution's simple enough... just edit glass.tga and turn the opacity up to 80%. Looks much better.
I did that, but some people include custom glass textures which are contradicting it.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 19, 2008, 05:42:00 am
Not in this case. But you can always change the texture name in modview32.

Now, what is wrong with this? (2 missile slots, 2 visible missiles)


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 19, 2008, 11:31:12 am
That looks good (with rockeyes), but did you check how it'd look with say, a tempest?
The rest of it is looking good though, including the glass.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Galemp on August 19, 2008, 11:48:00 am
That looks great! (Aside from the mapping errors, of course.)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on August 19, 2008, 11:57:32 am
Yeah.  I don't think that would look so great with smaller missiles like tempests :doubt:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Galemp on August 19, 2008, 11:59:20 am
If one potential missile out of twenty looks 'not so great' but the rest fit that snugly, then go for it.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 19, 2008, 03:21:33 pm
Missile arangments. There are still errors whith the EMP but i think we can live with them.
And a screenshot that i probably should have posted a week ago.


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on August 19, 2008, 03:37:14 pm
TBH I'd rather just keep the cones.  This system doesn't look great for many missiles, it seems, and the EMP missile will never look good on it :(

The fact is that FS ships and weapons were never designed to work together like this.  Without dramatic modifications to ALL of the ship and weapon models, it could never even start to work.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 19, 2008, 06:04:12 pm
The fact is that FS ships and weapons were never designed to work together like this.  Without dramatic modifications to ALL of the ship and weapon models, it could never even start to work.

True but in the case off Ulysses the modifications dont have to be so very dramatic. All we need is to reduce the the EMP's diameter to 70%-80%. This is the only model that causes problems.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 19, 2008, 06:15:41 pm
well, you could make a (semi-)htl EMP missile to go along with your model :D
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 19, 2008, 06:32:32 pm
 :lol:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on August 19, 2008, 07:11:12 pm
FireCrack already made an HTL EMP missile.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 19, 2008, 07:19:47 pm
But i need a smaller one.
O.K. my friends. Two versions off the Ulysses (cones/holes), two cocpits (Terran/Vasudan) and a EMP missile. I wonder iff anyone will ever use all this stuff.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 19, 2008, 07:20:33 pm
If it gets into MVPs, yeah.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 19, 2008, 11:24:05 pm
I'll download it as soon as it's available...lol.

There lies a problem, however. Which one goes into the mediavps?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on August 19, 2008, 11:33:56 pm
That's up to the FSU people...
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 19, 2008, 11:42:50 pm
Well, if the one I'm rooting for doesn't get in it's not like it's a huge deal to simply drop the other in the data/models folder. :p
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 19, 2008, 11:54:54 pm
Well, if the one I'm rooting for doesn't get in it's not like it's a huge deal to simply drop the other in the data/models folder. :p
Yeah, so simple :P
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 20, 2008, 12:03:52 am
Hey, I'm just itching to get my hands on it. The Ulysses seems like the first ship to get all the treatments (glowpoints, etc) but I had thought it'd be the last to be HTLed.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2008, 01:20:50 am
I'd just like simple cones to be honest.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 20, 2008, 01:27:12 am
I think he's going to release a version like that.

At least I hope he is.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2008, 01:28:21 am
Does anyone actually support having this messed up missile changing size screwed up thing thing thingy thing idea?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Mars on August 20, 2008, 02:33:29 am
I do, if only because even though it isn't perfect now, it will undoubtedly be improved in the future
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on August 20, 2008, 02:47:43 am
TBH, I don't really like this. Most missiles are (slightly) too big to fit in a Ulysses, and 1 Tempest just looks ridiculous in that big hole. If you'd put in more, the other missiles are ****ed up.

What I'd like to see, is scaled-down missiles (but I don't know if that would fit the other fighters already using this) and some kind of pod, with the size of a normal (scaled-down) missile, with several Tempests in it. Like this:

(http://www.detonationfilms.com/Return%20Of%20Agent%2012/RA12%20Production%20Stills/Missile%20Pod%20B.jpg)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 20, 2008, 05:02:43 am
I think he's going to release a version like that.

At least I hope he is.

I promise, i give you my word, i swear, i will.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: TrashMan on August 20, 2008, 05:31:52 am
Yup...all missiles are definately too big ATM. they should all be scaled down a bit.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on August 20, 2008, 06:10:05 am
We won't be resizing the missiles ingame. As blowfish has pointed out, this is one area that [v] simply didn't take into account during development. If we begin to take it into account now with the MVPs, then we throw all kinds of annoyances and potential problems into the fray, and all for a really trivial external detail issue.

For new campaigns, sure - develop fighters with slots measured out to fit all the missiles it is capable of - it's a nice feature. It just doesn't work with retail data and it's not worth the effort to try. If individuals want to do that as a mod, then sure, but it's not the sort of thing to go into the MVPs sorry.

So versioning wise, the MVP one would be the one with the terran in the cockpit and cone models for missiles. ;)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 20, 2008, 07:37:31 am
Quote

I promise, i give you my word, i swear, i will.

I believe you.  ;)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 20, 2008, 10:39:31 am
We won't be resizing the missiles ingame. As blowfish has pointed out, this is one area that [v] simply didn't take into account during development. If we begin to take it into account now with the MVPs, then we throw all kinds of annoyances and potential problems into the fray, and all for a really trivial external detail issue.

For new campaigns, sure - develop fighters with slots measured out to fit all the missiles it is capable of - it's a nice feature. It just doesn't work with retail data and it's not worth the effort to try. If individuals want to do that as a mod, then sure, but it's not the sort of thing to go into the MVPs sorry.

So versioning wise, the MVP one would be the one with the terran in the cockpit and cone models for missiles. ;)

I'm a litle confused individual. Do i need to start a new topic in the modding section? :sigh:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on August 20, 2008, 11:37:51 am
lol, no I was just refering to the idea of rescaling all the [v] missiles so they fit in various ships weapon slots. This topic belongs here. :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 20, 2008, 11:42:44 am
Despite off the current MVP though i think that we could discuss the possibility off adding abilities like this one to a future version.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on August 20, 2008, 11:47:05 am
It would require partial remodelling of all fighters to accomodate for it. Based on the current rate of HTL fighter creation I think it's safe to say that's not gonna happen. ;)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 20, 2008, 11:54:05 am
True.
However we could be optimistic about this and anticipate 2 versions for every new HTL model that we create (providing the missile scaling for everyone off them).
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2008, 12:04:22 pm
I think that this entire missile scaling thing is leading us on a tangent and we should just get on with the model. :/
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Zacam on August 20, 2008, 03:55:14 pm
Well. The ship is supposed to have a dimension. So are the missiles. Do the actual contradict each other or is it simple a modeling issue?

Cause I'm pretty sure that not everything in the game is at scale with everything else.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 20, 2008, 04:21:35 pm
I think that this entire missile scaling thing is leading us on a tangent and we should just get on with the model. :/

  :) :yes:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: WMCoolmon on August 20, 2008, 08:55:18 pm
Ship dimensions should match the original ship. That's a retail compatibility thing.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 22, 2008, 11:22:38 am
Just uploaded a beta in freespacemods.
There are three versions in the rar:
Ulysses proper is the one whith the cones
   "    test   is the one whith the holes
   "    V      is the one whit the vasudan cockpit (and holes)

As soon as it will be available please download it, test it and post your comments here.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 24, 2008, 11:36:00 pm
Looks like i can upload it here (be nice to the newbies please).  :pimp:

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on August 24, 2008, 11:47:54 pm
OK.  Firstly, nice work :)  It looks good.

But why did you choose to use a faded texture with no shine or normal maps?  It really should just use fighter01-01, unless you really modified the maps.  Also, there is no smoothing.  It makes some things look a bit odd.  What was this modeled in?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 24, 2008, 11:54:06 pm
Maps are not ready yet, sorry. It is modeled in 3dsmax. I'll try to avoid smoothing in the final release, due to the bat's character, however iff there is a specific part that is seriusly anoyig you i'll fix it (i found one my self, the inner corner off the missile mask).  :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on August 24, 2008, 11:55:34 pm
I'll try to avoid smoothing in the final release, due to the bat's character, however iff there is a specific part that is seriusly anoyig you i'll fix it (i found one my self, the inner corner off the missile mask).  :)

The cockpit glass in particular could use smoothing.  Also the missile cones...
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 24, 2008, 11:58:51 pm
I very much like the cockpit glass the way it is. But O.K. this is not the modding section. :(
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on August 25, 2008, 12:06:22 am
:wtf: It looks like a transparent disco ball...

Also note that any other rounded parts of the hull (of which I definitely see a few - pipes etc) should be smoothed.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 25, 2008, 12:17:23 am
Nice!
Yeah, you should smooth out the cockpit glass. Looks like a disco ball.
Also, the model works with fighter01-01 (I just switched it in PCS2) and it looks fine.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 25, 2008, 12:18:11 am
:wtf: It looks like a transparent disco ball...

Amazing, never realised this. Give's me modding ideas. Anyway, thanks for your comments Blowfish, i'll start working today, hopping that everything will be fixed by the end off the week.

Nice!
Yeah, you should smooth out the cockpit glass. Looks like a disco ball.
Also, the model works with fighter01-01 (I just switched it in PCS2) and it looks fine.

Not exactly, there are minor moddifications in the originall map and there might be more so it's not sure that it will continue working with fighter01-01 :).
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: TrashMan on August 25, 2008, 10:59:00 am
lol, no I was just refering to the idea of rescaling all the [v] missiles so they fit in various ships weapon slots. This topic belongs here. :)

I haven't actually though about re-scaling them so they fit specific slots on fighters/bomber.  I honestly don't care about a perfect fit for that.

I just thought of scaling them down, period, since they are too big compared to any fighter/bomber. To some more reasonable size, so that a missile doesn't end up being almost as big as the fighter itself.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on August 25, 2008, 10:29:07 pm
But i need a smaller one.
O.K. my friends. Two versions off the Ulysses (cones/holes), two cocpits (Terran/Vasudan) and a EMP missile. I wonder iff anyone will ever use all this stuff.

      There's a Vasudan cockpit/pilot? Or no?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 25, 2008, 11:13:42 pm
Yes, there's a vasudan-piloted one included in the attachment :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Titan on August 28, 2008, 10:24:16 am
can't the next mediavp's include a special ships and weapons table, and then have the tempests use a special launcher, like the ones steve-o's ships use.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 28, 2008, 12:02:56 pm
Yeah, but that doesn't solve the missile-size problem.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Zacam on August 28, 2008, 10:50:53 pm
I like the Uly V in the. The model is a little chunky on my system performance wise, but I suspect that can be cleaned up.

It also needs a serious mapping job to polish it off. The test texture is decent, but lacking. Also, I noticed that insignia spots don't seem to be present or rendering.

I think the one with the vasudan cockpit should be an optional upgrade, and that the non-cockpit model with the missile tube interior visible should be the default one. That is just my opinion though.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Solatar on August 28, 2008, 10:54:16 pm
...the non-cockpit model with the missile tube interior visible should be the default one.

Others don't agree, including myself, which is why that one hasn't been set as default. ;)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Zacam on August 29, 2008, 12:19:51 am
Others can not agree all they want. I prefer seeing the missiles I've selected rocketing out of a blank tube than through faux-missiles that do nothing.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 29, 2008, 12:49:15 am
By that logic...

Others can not agree all they want. I prefer not to seeing an oversized missile hanging out of a missile bay looking retarded.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Zacam on August 29, 2008, 01:55:19 am
I saw no missiles hanging out. But then, I only used the model (renamed to Fighter01) and the textures.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 29, 2008, 04:50:46 am
You have to put $Show Secondary Models: ( YES YES ) after $SBank Capacity:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Zacam on August 29, 2008, 10:06:07 am
If and when that becomes something useful, sure. But I don't see it as something necessary for the current campaign. For mods to show it off is great, but it is not a part of the appearance of original FS/FS2.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Snail on August 29, 2008, 11:15:07 am
I agree I don't like the missile models. I think it's a waste of time trying to do all this scaling and repositioning stuff. :doubt:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on August 29, 2008, 01:19:36 pm
Well, having gaping holes in the fighter isn't all that attractive either. I'd say to limit the depth of it a bit...or I'd just stick with the ones with missile caps that :v: used for the render on the first page.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Mongoose on August 29, 2008, 03:12:43 pm
The missile caps on the Ulysses are just like the Concussion missiles mounted on the wings of the Pyro-GX during the Descent II intro...neither one makes sense from a gameplay standpoint, but both look cool and help make the overall appearance of the ship.  I'd choose aesthetics over realism any day of the week.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on August 29, 2008, 04:34:48 pm
I think that everyone will be happy after the final release off two versions, including the EMP missile model (if i manage to put both cockpits in the same model, else there will be 4 versions). :)
You have to put $Show Secondary Models: ( YES YES ) after $SBank Capacity:

Actually it's $Show Secondary Models: ( YES ), there's only one missile bank for the bat (whith two slots). The models with the holes in the VP file already have tables whith that entry.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Titan on September 03, 2008, 05:44:47 pm
it'd probably be good to have the missle firepoints moved back, so that the rockeyes aren't sticking most of the way out...
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 03, 2008, 07:37:48 pm
Here is another beta, last chance for corrections before the final release.
There is a VP file in the rar whith the two models, and a mission called "testing ulysses". There is also the EMP model, separately, i'm sure you know what to do whit it.
I've made a shine map in it but i dont know how it looks (OPENGL problem).
The EMP model is not finished yet so be kind whith your comments, but don't do the same about the Ulysses model.
 Waiting...  :pimp:

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Mars on September 03, 2008, 07:55:31 pm
The missile caps on the Ulysses are just like the Concussion missiles mounted on the wings of the Pyro-GX during the Descent II intro...neither one makes sense from a gameplay standpoint, but both look cool and help make the overall appearance of the ship.  I'd choose aesthetics over realism any day of the week.

The cutscenes in Descent 2 were cool for the time, but honestly the concussion missiles make it look rather silly now.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on September 03, 2008, 08:16:19 pm
Note that the ordering of the parts is screwed up.  The glass should ALWAYS be the last part of the model, to avoid space being seen through it.  Also, the glowmap seems a bit odd and the shinemap just doesn't work well.  Particularly the alpha.  Most of the ships have no environmental reflections, while others have full alpha, so they look like mirrors :wtf:  I would suggest taking a good look at the MediaVPs Ulysses maps (fighter01-01), and possibly copying parts of those onto your own maps.  Also note that the diffuse map in the mediavps has a lot more definition than yours.

Overall, nice model, except for the object ordering thing, but the maps definitely need work.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 03, 2008, 08:26:02 pm
Thanks, checking them now.  :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 03, 2008, 10:03:58 pm
By the looks of it in-game, the glass in that latest version works fine actually. :)

Anyway, I'm impressed. :) Lovely work on this. :yes:
I'll fix up the insignia (which appears below the hull and on plate overlaps), the maps for it (ie, rebalance the existing normal map and fiddle with the shine map to stop the little bits of mirrorsyndrome it creates), and then I'll see that the Uly and the new EMP model gets into the MVPs.

So, what do you plan to work on next? :D

Edit: Oh, and I'll also need to add LODs, so while I'm here I'll give it full volume debris treatment too.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on September 03, 2008, 10:21:37 pm
By the looks of it in-game, the glass in that latest version works fine actually. :)

Err ... look at it in the lab.  Turn on "show radius"  Looking through the cockpit, you can clearly see large patches of green.  The ordering of objects needs to be modified.

I'll see that the Uly and the new EMP model gets into the MVPs.

Err ... didn't FireCrack already make an HTL EMP model + tech model?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on September 03, 2008, 10:39:23 pm
Uh, well, I just flew some missions in it with "show ship". Worked fine there, so no problem.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 03, 2008, 10:47:52 pm
By the looks of it in-game, the glass in that latest version works fine actually. :)

Anyway, I'm impressed. :) Lovely work on this. :yes:
I'll fix up the insignia (which appears below the hull and on plate overlaps), the maps for it (ie, rebalance the existing normal map and fiddle with the shine map to stop the little bits of mirrorsyndrome it creates), and then I'll see that the Uly and the new EMP model gets into the MVPs.

So, what do you plan to work on next? :D

Edit: Oh, and I'll also need to add LODs, so while I'm here I'll give it full volume debris treatment too.

Thank you very much for your comments and your help :)
Next is the thoth (i'll release the centaur before that but that's yours mostly :()
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 03, 2008, 10:50:40 pm
Err ... look at it in the lab.  Turn on "show radius"  Looking through the cockpit, you can clearly see large patches of green.  The ordering of objects needs to be modified.
Oh, at the back yeah I see now. (Viewing radius is a handy technique actually thanks. ;) )

I'll be reconverting the model anyway, so I'll sort it out then.

Quote
Err ... didn't FireCrack already make an HTL EMP model + tech model?
I did wonder, but there wasn't one in the beta MVPs, and I've not heard anything on that front in internal so I assumed not. I'll go check now.


Edit: Found them, yeah: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,52673.0.html
They're very nice models in there - I wonder how we missed these. :\
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on September 03, 2008, 10:57:26 pm
I just checked again in the tech room
All the green is from the Vasudan model which is hidden (and hence shows as transparent). I seriously doubt it is an issue with the glass...
Not that I know what I'm really talking about.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 03, 2008, 11:00:38 pm
I cannot realy help here (my OPENGL is not working) but the glass is not a seperate model in the Truespace order.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 03, 2008, 11:11:16 pm
No, the puregreen transparency only works for 256 colour PCX's and is a relic of a hack present in the original game. ;)

The DDS transparency for the terran and vasudan cockpits here work just fine. :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 03, 2008, 11:14:33 pm
The maps for the cockpits are made from a masked TGA file with 256 colors. There is no puregreen transparency here :nod:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on September 03, 2008, 11:16:07 pm
No, the puregreen transparency only works for 256 colour PCX's and is a relic of a hack present in the original game. ;)

The DDS transparency for the terran and vasudan cockpits here work just fine. :)

I'm talking about being able to see the radius through the model (it's a good indicator of when problems like this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51775.msg1045501.html#msg1045501) are occuring).  This has nothing to do with textures.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 03, 2008, 11:24:33 pm
Err, no no - there I was referring to Droids post where he was saying the green that we were seeing in the cockpit was caused by the switching textures technique for the terran/vasudan pilots, since pure green used to be used by the engine to designate transparency. The DDS textures peterv has used don't have that problem.

You are completely correct that the radius being visible through the cockpit like that indicates transparency problems. As I said before - it's a handy technique. :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 03, 2008, 11:27:58 pm
Will it help if i post the truespace file?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on September 03, 2008, 11:29:03 pm
Err, no no - there I was referring to Droids post where he was saying the green that we were seeing in the cockpit was caused by the switching textures technique for the terran/vasudan pilots, since pure green used to be used by the engine to designate transparency. The DDS textures peterv has used don't have that problem.

You are completely correct that the radius being visible through the cockpit like that indicates transparency problems. As I said before - it's a handy technique. :)

OK.  Just wanted to be sure :)

For anyone who is still unclear on what I am talking about, here (http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj251/blowfishpro/ulyssesrenderorder.jpg) is a picture.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 03, 2008, 11:30:10 pm
Will it help if i post the truespace file?
No that's fine - I've got it in Blender already and am nearly there thanks. :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on September 03, 2008, 11:40:38 pm
Err, no no - there I was referring to Droids post where he was saying the green that we were seeing in the cockpit was caused by the switching textures technique for the terran/vasudan pilots, since pure green used to be used by the engine to designate transparency. The DDS textures peterv has used don't have that problem.

You are completely correct that the radius being visible through the cockpit like that indicates transparency problems. As I said before - it's a handy technique. :)

OK.  Just wanted to be sure :)

For anyone who is still unclear on what I am talking about, here (http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj251/blowfishpro/ulyssesrenderorder.jpg) is a picture.
Yes, what I mean is, the green in that picture, right there, is the "hidden" Vasudan model.
That's the 'transparency issue' you speak of.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on September 03, 2008, 11:41:58 pm
Yes, what I mean is, the green in that picture, right there, is the "hidden" Vasudan model.
That's the 'transparency issue' you speak of.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with pure green transparency.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on September 03, 2008, 11:43:58 pm
I was never talking about pure-green transparency.
Well, that's one misunderstanding cleared up.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 04, 2008, 12:17:14 am
Indeed - what's happening there is that you can see through most of the back of the cockpit - you're not seeing the hidden vasudan model. :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 06, 2008, 12:24:16 pm
Well, that'll teach me not to dismiss possible bugs so easily without looking closely at them. :\

Droid - you were completely correct. Due to the insane difficulty FS has with rendering transparencies, it's not currently possible to have both terran and vasudan options in the cockpit, because the outline of the invisible model makes a hole right through the ship. Until the transparency stuff is changed, texture replacement techniques for this simply do not work - so I've had to cut the vasudan out. :(

Anyway, I've corrected some mapping, set up the smoothing, fixed some geometry, built the LODs, made the debris and a new normal map, and after too many hours and FAR too many reconversions, it's at last complete and ready to go into the MVPs:

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Ulysses/HTL_Uly1.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Ulysses/HTL_Uly2.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Ulysses/HTL_Uly3.jpg)

Here: http://game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/MVP3610BETA/HTL_Ulysses1.0.zip

If anyone encounters ANY bugs with it, please post them here so they don't carry over into the final MVP release!
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Skarab on September 06, 2008, 01:41:48 pm
Many thanks for the fine work... I have only one problem and that is the normal maps won't show up for me on this fighter.  I checked other ships and the normals show up fine for them, such as on the Sobek and Loki.  Also, I'm not sure where to put the .ibx and .tsb files.  I did a search and the only place either of those file formats show up is in /cache so I put them there.  Does that have anything to do with the normals not working for it?  Aside from that one issue, the ship looks amazing, and the lack of normals is likely something going on here and not in the model itself.  Hats off to you guys for yet another upgrade to one of my favorite games ever.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on September 06, 2008, 02:13:09 pm
The glowing areas on the ends of the wings look a bit odd to me (IMO they should be more like they were in the original MVP textures)...  But otherwise it looks amazing :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Mongoose on September 06, 2008, 02:32:25 pm
The normal maps seem a bit...chunky to me, but I'll go with the assumption that they'll look great in-game.  Not that it matters much to me anyway, since I don't have a card that would display them in the first place. :p
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 06, 2008, 04:54:48 pm
Thanks VA, hope you're willing to do the same for my next one  :nod:

Is there any chance to release it before the next MVP release?  :D

edit: just realized that you already did. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 06, 2008, 04:56:33 pm
There are no normal (or height) maps in that zip file, and the textures don't look so good to me. Blurry on detail edges and looking like PCX on many places... :nervous:

The model looks fine, but IMHO it needs better texture to be an upgrade... although it's somewhat difficult to judge without the normal maps available, they sometimes make a lot of difference.

Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Skarab on September 06, 2008, 05:59:37 pm
There are no normal (or height) maps in that zip file, and the textures don't look so good to me. Blurry on detail edges and looking like PCX on many places... :nervous:

The model looks fine, but IMHO it needs better texture to be an upgrade... although it's somewhat difficult to judge without the normal maps available, they sometimes make a lot of difference.



The lack of normal/height maps explains my problem, and I'd have to agree that their presence could make an already good looking model look a whole lot better.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 06, 2008, 06:09:05 pm
Another thing - shinemap and glowmap are half the resolution of diffuse map. Why?

Especially on the case of shinemap, that's not very smartsince the lower resolution of the shinemap tends to wash out the detail in the diffuse map. And low res glowmaps just don't look good on top of higher resolution diffuse map either.


Cockpit map could benefit from higher resolution as well, but only marginally.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 06, 2008, 06:18:05 pm
Another thing - shinemap and glowmap are half the resolution of diffuse map. Why?

Especially on the case of shinemap, that's not very smartsince the lower resolution of the shinemap tends to wash out the detail in the diffuse map. And low res glowmaps just don't look good on top of higher resolution diffuse map either.


Cockpit map could benefit from higher resolution as well, but only marginally.

This is my fault actually as VA grabed it before i start working on maps. However, since i'm not the best texturer in the world (probably i am the worst) perhaps we can find somebody more skilled to fix it. :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 07, 2008, 12:55:10 am
Hmm, it does indeed look like I forgot the normal map. :\ Well considering I was posting at about 3:30am, I'm a little surprised that's all I missed. ;)

Anyway, I think I might work on the texture a bit more before posting a new version, since it's a bit of a mish-mash of styles ATM, with a lot of misalignments and resolution differences between the pieces. I won't be redrawing the entire map though, (my favourite way of upgrading maps) since it will take too long.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 08, 2008, 03:30:14 am
Try this version: http://game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/MVP3610BETA/HTL_Ulysses1.1.zip

Has a normal map and somewhat better mapping. No match for a good redraw though.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 10, 2008, 05:59:24 pm
So, um, does no-one complaining mean that people are happy with the revision and it can go into the MVPs?

Or do people need piccies of the slightly moodier looking uly to jump-start things? :p

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Ulysses/HTL_Uly4.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Ulysses/HTL_Uly5.jpg)

Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on September 10, 2008, 06:14:23 pm
Somehow the current MediaVP Ulysses maps seem to be sharper than these...
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Droid803 on September 10, 2008, 06:21:47 pm
I like this one.
Its dirty and gritty. It looks USED. Something that a great-war era fighter would probably be by the time FS2 takes place.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 10, 2008, 06:34:21 pm
Somehow the current MediaVP Ulysses maps seem to be sharper than these...
The new ones are the MVP maps, just with peterv's added bits on top, and with more dirt......or you could also probably call it eyeliner. :p
Anyway - have a look at it in-game if you haven't already, because that's the bit that counts most in this case. Droid has the right idea in that it's supposed to look used.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 11, 2008, 04:08:44 am
Great job VA. Is it to much to ask you to convert a "holes" version as well? :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 11, 2008, 08:37:03 am
Solid conversions are a lot of work (even if you have all the data already present) so I myself won't be reconverting for something like that. I can send you the source blend or generated COB files if you want though?

(Sorry if that comes across as gruff and dismissive - it's not meant to be, but I was up to roughly re-conversion #11 when I finally got it to that state due to problems with insignia and that cockpit transparency issue. Don't really want to do any more with it. ;) )
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: S-99 on September 11, 2008, 05:59:23 pm
the new uly looks great.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 12, 2008, 05:33:17 am
Solid conversions are a lot of work (even if you have all the data already present) so I myself won't be reconverting for something like that. I can send you the source blend or generated COB files if you want though?

(Sorry if that comes across as gruff and dismissive - it's not meant to be, but I was up to roughly re-conversion #11 when I finally got it to that state due to problems with insignia and that cockpit transparency issue. Don't really want to do any more with it. ;) )

O.K. i'll use the pof file. :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Harbinger of DOOM on September 12, 2008, 09:04:28 pm
Looking great as always, VA.

 :yes:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Titan on September 13, 2008, 07:17:50 pm
just got it today (while waiting for MV-models to download for the old asteroids) and i LOVE it. someone needs to pdate the herc maps now though... this makes everything look really bad.  :p
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Galemp on September 13, 2008, 07:59:36 pm
We have other priorities... like the Osiris. PeterV, can you try your hand at that? I think your style would work really well with it.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 13, 2008, 08:18:21 pm
We have other priorities... like the Osiris. PeterV, can you try your hand at that? I think your style would work really well with it.

Promise, right after the Thoth :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Galemp on September 13, 2008, 09:20:17 pm
Ooh. Maybe the Isis, as well? The three of those share a very similar style.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: peterv on September 13, 2008, 09:22:55 pm
As many as a i can before they put me back to mental clinic again :lol:
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: eliex on September 13, 2008, 10:51:41 pm
I like the new Uly.  :D 
It looks battle-hardened.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Topgun on September 15, 2008, 07:34:47 pm
I like it, a little to prominent but good.
I think we should make a separate one for the fsport. it's supposed to be a new fighter at that time and this beat-up uly doesn't fit. 
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: blowfish on September 15, 2008, 07:35:57 pm
I like it, a little to prominent but good.
I think we should make a separate one for the fsport. it's supposed to be a new fighter at that time and this beat-up uly doesn't fit. 

Or at least different maps...
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: S-99 on September 15, 2008, 08:16:08 pm
The new model looks very authentic and awesome compared to the old bat that was once cool to fly in fs1.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Cobra on September 29, 2008, 01:05:30 pm
Hmm, hate to break it to ya, fellas, but the glow on the front left side of the Ulysses is floating off of the missile area.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Galemp on September 29, 2008, 01:14:53 pm
And yet you didn't think about moving it over in PCS and re-posting it?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Zacam on September 29, 2008, 05:09:02 pm
A screen shot would be nice too, because I cannot find anything wrong at all.

D'oh. I also had the wrong model loaded. Problem found. Fixing.

Edit: Done. red_glow_small|Glow Point 2.
Was: 6.100000:-2.000000:4.111716
Is Now: 5.500000:-1.720000:3.466832

Recalculated the MOI while I was at it.

Model: Uly-FixedGlow.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/Uly-FixedGlow.7z)
SHA1: D726BB980454E026CD400144C5F3F6A90A2FC2F9
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Cobra on September 29, 2008, 05:32:17 pm
I ran it through PCS and tweaked the location, but it still floats in-game. Lemme get a screenshot.

EDIT: Zacam, show a screenshot of yours in-game, would you?

(http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6351/screen0145xi0.png)

That's what it looked like before... ****, let me clear my cache.

Again, EDIT: Holy crap, the Ulysses is missing a texture.

Update: Clearing the cache isn't working. I think this might be an SCP bug.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Zacam on September 29, 2008, 05:38:49 pm
Cobra, yours matched mine. Look at the post above for the fixed model and cache.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Cobra on September 29, 2008, 06:22:26 pm
I figured out what the problem was. Somehow the hi-poly Ulysses' model file was in my FSPort folder. Don't ask. :p

Anyway, kudos, Zacam. Doesn't look weird now. :)
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Mars on September 29, 2008, 07:21:17 pm
How many lights do you see, Captain?
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 29, 2008, 08:07:38 pm
There... are... FOUR! LIGHTS!
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Kolgena on April 21, 2009, 09:43:36 pm
Sorry for the bump, but I was looking for a solution to the grey bits on the front edges of the Uly's wings. The link posted above doesn't work. Can we get a repost? Thanks.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Zacam on April 22, 2009, 01:23:40 am
The linked lights fixed Uly is in the MediaVPs.

There was no fix for the grey leading edge.

Someone probably needs to re-map it.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Kolgena on April 22, 2009, 07:05:50 pm
Hmm. I'm running the latest VPs, and the blue lights are still there where it shouldn't be. I also just quickly checked the mediaVP 3.6.10 release thread, and it's not in there.

As for the grey leading edges, it's a shame that there's no fix for them. Such a good model is seriously marred because the mesh is showing underneath a hole in the skin.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Zacam on April 25, 2009, 05:57:47 pm
Are you sure your actually using the latest MediaVP's? Because it _is_ in there.

All 4 cyan glow points exist only on the top two leading edge blue spots. There are no glowpoints set for the 8 under-wing glowmap spots.

Wether or not the surface glows should have glowpoints or the underside shoul receive some is worth debate, but the MediaVP model is fine with the exception of the "grey" missing texture section.

Further, the only glowpoints that had to be corrected where the from (top of the model list) red_glow_small.
Title: Re: Inspiration - HTL Ulysses
Post by: Kolgena on April 25, 2009, 08:25:21 pm
My bad. I meant to refer to that tiny bit of blue texture above the surface with the missiles. That looks horribly out of place. It's not a glowpoint, but it looks like a blue light panel in the texture.

But yeah. I really hope that that can be fixed, along with the missing textures.