Author Topic: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project  (Read 42684 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project.

This project is intended to investigate as many potential options for continued development and overhaul of the rendering engine of FreeSpaceOpen (FSO) as possible.
This will involve researching existing engines, the requirements of FSO and the requests of people involved in modding or coding for FSO.

There are a number of goals of the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project:
  • Generate documentation for the FSO engine and components thereof
  • Investigate and evaluate rendering frameworks
  • Investigate, evaluate, write, modify and collect tools to enable coders, modders and artists to work more efficiently
  • Generate interest in the FSO engine and hopefully bring new artists, coders and modders into the fray
  • Develop future planning, directions and libraries for the graphics components of the FSO engine
  • Efficient use and provision of resources available

If you know of a graphics coder or a talented technical-artist (someone who is able to understand the needs and wishes of both the artists and coders), point them in our direction!

Whilst this project is officially examining the the rendering engine of FSO, we are open to discussing other components of the engine and how they inter-relate.
This is NOT a requests forum or a help forum - posts containing requests (where not clearly asked for by the team) or requests for help with modding will be moved into the appropriate forum boards.

We are expecting significant discussion on the HOW and the WHY of engine components. Keep the politics OUT and the technical reasoning IN.

We are currently recruiting team members falling into the following categories:
  • Significant graphics or platform coding and documentation experience (C and C++ desired but if you have coding experience with other languages we will help to move you to that platform)
  • Significant and established software architecture knowledge and/or experience
  • Significant FSO modding experience
  • Experience with other 3D engines
  • Significant 3D math experience or knowledge
  • Significant art experience
  • Established research and report writing skills
  • Established documentation preparation and production skills

This is an extremely ambitious project - we need people who are dedicated to the project and willing to come with an open mind and significant technical skills.

PM portej05 to join the project!


portej05
STRONGTEA. Why can't the x86 be sane?

 

Offline TopAce

  • Stalwart contributor
  • 212
  • FREDder, FSWiki editor, and tester
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
First question:

We've already had an ambitious project like this, Ferrium. What's the guarantee that this project will not die, just like Ferrium did? I see this is "an extremely ambitious" project. Extremely ambitious projects have a tendency to aim at heights that are impossible to reach with fan work - however dedicated it is.

Second question:

How will you release your work? Will it be one big SCP build that you release yearly, or is it something like the SCP nightlies?
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
The tools to maintain order are: lies, double standards, and hypocrisy. The most powerful and the most insidious of them is hypocrisy

 

Offline Tomo

  • 28
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
The first requirement is clearly to document how the current engine works in detail.
Even if that's the only thing that comes of the project, it is most definitely worthwhile.
- There's a lot of very obtuse code in there, which is preventing or delaying a lot of useful work.

By documenting everything, it opens up the ability to refactor the existing code.

This is what I see this project as being - not a replacement engine, but a refactored one.
Once it is refactored, we have an engine that runs identically to the old but is much easier to maintain.

So by isolating the sections of the engine, it makes it possible to add features and apply bugfixes or other improvements to individual engine modules.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
Documenting it is certainly one of the very first steps. After that, after we have gained a picture of just how interconnected the whole thing is, we can see about separating it into a more logical layout.
**** every cause that ends in murder and children crying. ― Iain Banks
Join the fun at the HLP IRC channel. Get the latest spam and gossip as long as it's fresh!

 
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
Comparing this project to Ferrium is probably a little unfair. Ferrium was intended to be a complete rewrite of the engine, whereas this is intended to be an overhaul of the engine. Just from that alone, we have a better chance of success. There are two bolded goals in the original post - those are the partial success criteria, although I'd hope that we can achieve a lot more.

This is not going to be a totally separate project from SCP. The large amount of research referenced is to acquaint the team members with current engine and design technology and methodology. It is intended that this project will replace the current rendering engine (read the FAQ for why the rendering engine is a focus at this time).

Additionally, this project will be driven by a technological focus. Whilst we have not lost sight of things like retail (data) compatibility, etc, we do have a lot more freedom than within the original engine.
STRONGTEA. Why can't the x86 be sane?

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
The problem Ferrium had was that it was an attempt to build a completely new engine and game at the same time. One of the main reasons for keeping backwards compatibility in the FS2_Open engine is so that we always have something we can run on the engine. On the day the overhaul is done we'll have a wealth of mods and games as well as the original FS2 to run on it.

Ferrium didn't have this advantage and therefore couldn't pull in coders from the outside world anywhere near as easily.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Nuke

  • Ka-Boom!
  • 212
  • Mutants Worship Me
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
i probably meet at least 4 of the requirements, namely theese:

# Significant FSO modding experience
# Experience with other 3D engines
# Significant 3D math experience or knowledge
# Significant art experience

unfortunately the downside is i have a reputation for being a lazy bum, and would probably just get in the way.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
@Nuke: Jump on #hardlight or #scp at some point and we'll set up a quick interview (to determine your technical strengths and how best you can contribute!).
We'd love to have you on-board :)
STRONGTEA. Why can't the x86 be sane?

 

Offline Aardwolf

  • 211
  • Posts: 16,384
    • Minecraft
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
i probably meet at least 4 of the requirements, namely theese:

# Significant FSO modding experience
# Experience with other 3D engines
# Significant 3D math experience or knowledge
# Significant art experience

unfortunately the downside is i have a reputation for being a lazy bum, and would probably just get in the way.

Heheh... I'm pretty much exactly the same. A tad less FSO modding and art though...

 

Offline Cobra

  • 212
  • Snake on a Cain
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
Just a thought, but would the coders be able to finish some of Volition's unfinished stuff, like planets?
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
..........

That is NOT THE POINT of this project. We are not talking about adding features like that, we are talking about making the process to add features easier by redesigning and documenting the engine.
**** every cause that ends in murder and children crying. ― Iain Banks
Join the fun at the HLP IRC channel. Get the latest spam and gossip as long as it's fresh!

 

Offline Cobra

  • 212
  • Snake on a Cain
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
I know what the point is, I'm just saying if that was being considered at all.

Hm. Had a retarded moment there. Seemed to me like you guys were trying to rewrite the entire engine.
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline TopAce

  • Stalwart contributor
  • 212
  • FREDder, FSWiki editor, and tester
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
That was another project.
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
The tools to maintain order are: lies, double standards, and hypocrisy. The most powerful and the most insidious of them is hypocrisy

 

Offline Cobra

  • 212
  • Snake on a Cain
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
That was another project.

Right, but I was thinking that these guys were trying to do the same. Drr on me.
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Aardwolf

  • 211
  • Posts: 16,384
    • Minecraft
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
So I'm noticing people are completely ignoring the instruction not to post broad "use XYZ" suggestions...

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
I just ran across one of my topics about upgrading the model format, as I've said a few times the graphics engine can't get much better than it is while we use the old model format.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,47751.0.html
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline chief1983

  • Still lacks a custom title
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️🅰➡️⬇️
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Fate of the Galaxy
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
Should I move that thread over here?
Fate of the Galaxy - Now Hiring!  Apply within | Diaspora | SCP Home | Collada Importer for PCS2
Karajorma's 'How to report bugs' | Mantis
#freespace | #scp-swc | #diaspora | #SCP | #hard-light on EsperNet

"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline Zacam

  • Magnificent Bastard
  • Administrator
  • 211
  • I go Sledge-O-Matic on Spammers
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • ModDB Feature
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
Hmmm. Sounds good to me, since the SLDC stuff is already implemented but we still need to have enhancements in the engine.

But then, even having that link above is sufficient.
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!
Talk with the FSU on #SCP-FSU Talk with the SCP on #SCP
"If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"

¤[D+¬>

[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
I've left the SCP and associated projects as of last week.
Chief1983 is now leading this project.
STRONGTEA. Why can't the x86 be sane?

 

Offline chief1983

  • Still lacks a custom title
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️🅰➡️⬇️
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Fate of the Galaxy
Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
Well there is that whole moderator status to take care of then.
Fate of the Galaxy - Now Hiring!  Apply within | Diaspora | SCP Home | Collada Importer for PCS2
Karajorma's 'How to report bugs' | Mantis
#freespace | #scp-swc | #diaspora | #SCP | #hard-light on EsperNet

"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays