Additional TEV forces in Massive Battle:
GTCv Battuta - Deimos class corvette.
Uhm, yes? Because the Renjian has been destroyed already?
All canon ships that are confirmed to exist prior to the first battle of Artemis Station are in that list. There are more ships in existance (although not that many), and lots more ships that have been destroyed.
Renjian is (or rather, was) a 3JRF ship (3JRF being the fleet in charge of patrolling the jump node at the time). Her registry number was FG 3112.
All canon ships that are confirmed to exist prior to the first battle of Artemis Station are in that list. There are more ships in existance (although not that many), and lots more ships that have been destroyed.
Renjian is (or rather, was) a 3JRF ship (3JRF being the fleet in charge of patrolling the jump node at the time). Her registry number was FG 3112.
I think they refit all their mass drivers to fire kittens at Tev forces in an effort to pacify them.
It's the Feds, creators of Narayana artillery. I'm sure they have shells prepared for safely delivering payloads of kittens.I think they refit all their mass drivers to fire kittens at Tev forces in an effort to pacify them.
Oh NOES! not the kittens...... :shaking:
Is there a list anywhere of ships in theater after delenda est?Got one in picture form.
Wait what's that other Hecate doing there?I think it's supposed to be a post-Artemis picture, not post-Delenda Est. Which means that both the Hood and Meridian are here.
What about the Requiem?Good question. I assumed it was rotated out of the system to make room for the Atreus & Imperieuse, or something like that.
Well, I should make my homework:What about the Requiem?Good question. I assumed it was rotated out of the system to make room for the Atreus & Imperieuse, or something like that.
What about the Requiem?
GTCv Atenor, Deimos class corvette. Captured by Wargods.
GTC Norfolk, Aeolus class cruiser. Captured by Wargods.
There appear to be two squadrons of GTVA fighters both named Firebearers- the 332 and the 663
GTC Joketsu, Leviathan class cruiser. Destroyed or driven off by Wargods.
NOTE: In Sunglare, when the Toutatis and (presumably) the remainder of the 3rd Fleet is shown, there is one Solaris, two Narayanas, two Karunas, and three Sanctus cruisers. It's possible that there are other surviving 3rd Fleet ships that simply weren't present in the shot, but it does make you wonder if the 3rd Fleet took some particularly heavy losses elsewhere in DE.As far as I can see in Sunglare's mission file, there are actually four Sanctuses, one is partially hidden behind the Narayana on your right. No ships are named though.
4) Erm...all but one Diomedes corvette are destroyed without achieving much. Going from memory, this is because they were deployed alone, offensively, against more numerous and generally more powerful opposition. I don't really understand why these supposedly expensive corvettes are somewhat carelessly thrown into a hornet's nest, alone, time and again for...unmentioned justification (I think) is beyond me. Why was the Medea deployed, by itself, to attack the Wargods TF in Aristeia long before they were in range of the Hood (allowing the TF to take on each of the threats one-at-a-time; between the Indus, Yangtze, two Oculus AWACS, and two Sanctus cruisers, it seems rather odd that sending the Medea in alone to engage them would be considered anything less than suicide.Ahem. Given the angle at which it was deployed in Aristeia, if Noémie didn't manage to get through the communication jamming to get reinforcements, the Medea would have reduced TF Wargods into molten metal pieces, on its own. Diomedes are truly scary ships. As for Darkest Hour's Diomedes, well, they were just caught with their pants down and jump drive not recharged. **** happens, this is war.
5) If Home Fleet doesn't really start using its ships more proactively and unpredictably, things might get ugly real fast for the UEF. At this point, the GTVA (after a short repair/resupply period) can focus on picking off UEF frigates one-by-one, taking advantage of Byrne's passivity to whittle down 2nd and 3rd Fleets. Lure out a frigate or two with a shock-jump on a random frigate or Sanctus, and when they show up, hit them with another shock-jump from Serkr team. The forces present would be powerful and numerous enough to make even Calder hesitate to commit the huge forces needed to take on such a threat, giving the shock-jump teams all the time they need to get away.Keep in mind that, post Aristeia, beam jamming is now becoming a pretty common part of UEF EW capabilities. Shock jumping has suddenly become a much less deadly tactic.
GVC ______, Aten (!) class. Remains in theater. (seen in Sunglare alongside other Vasudan ships)
the difference is that though slow the Lev always had a decent punch for a GTA/GTVA ship, especially in it's FS2 configuration, the Aten was a joke from day 1It's sad that the most useful action I ever saw an Aten take is when it suicide bombed the Galatea....
the difference is that though slow the Lev always had a decent punch for a GTA/GTVA ship, especially in it's FS2 configuration, the Aten was a joke from day 1It's sad that the most useful action I ever saw an Aten take is when it suicide bombed the Galatea....
Eh? I'm not sure how...perhaps I need to look into that mission a bit, but it always seemed to me like the significance of Noemi's trick was that it allowed for the Medea to be dealt with quickly enough to save one or two of the Sanctus cruisers, as well as avoid having the Indus and Yangtze divert to duke it out with the Medea to finish it off.
Ahem. Given the angle at which it was deployed in Aristeia, if Noémie didn't manage to get through the communication jamming to get reinforcements, the Medea would have reduced TF Wargods into molten metal pieces, on its own. Diomedes are truly scary ships. As for Darkest Hour's Diomedes, well, they were just caught with their pants down and jump drive not recharged. **** happens, this is war.
Keep in mind that, post Aristeia, beam jamming is now becoming a pretty common part of UEF EW capabilities. Shock jumping has suddenly become a much less deadly tactic.
Eh? I'm not sure how...perhaps I need to look into that mission a bit, but it always seemed to me like the significance of Noemi's trick was that it allowed for the Medea to be dealt with quickly enough to save one or two of the Sanctus cruisers, as well as avoid having the Indus and Yangtze divert to duke it out with the Medea to finish it off.
Ahem. Given the angle at which it was deployed in Aristeia, if Noémie didn't manage to get through the communication jamming to get reinforcements, the Medea would have reduced TF Wargods into molten metal pieces, on its own. Diomedes are truly scary ships. As for Darkest Hour's Diomedes, well, they were just caught with their pants down and jump drive not recharged. **** happens, this is war.
I mean, the Medea is a threat, sure, but one capable of killing the Indus, Yangtze, two Sanctus cruisers, the Agincourt, and two Oculus ships? Come to think of it, with two Oculus ships and the electronic capability of the other UEF ships present, how long would the GTVA local jamming have held up if it became a priority?
Either way, two TSlashBlue's can't be all that threatening when faced with a dozen gauss cannons that outrange them and can kill them in one or two shots. The Medea would probably get away safely enough, but I have trouble seeing how it would pull an all-kill by itself in that kind of situation.
DH Diomedes caught with its pants down? Was it? I thought it was purposefully sent in to finish off Rheza Station? IIRC, at best, it (usually) just finishes off the Vatican and does some damage to the Indus before being destroyed. For the situation it was in, it was a tad underwhelming (and it seems like Diomedes are the only kind of GTVA ship in WiH that typically gets destroyed before it can jump out, now that I think about it :P).
And the UEF can't have a good number of Oculus ships left, at least at the time of Sunglare. After losing two, possibly three of them in the span of a couple weeks, it makes me wonder--especially because the tech database implies that the number of Oculus ships to escape the Fall of Jupiter was in the single-digits to begin with.This I agree with. Not to mention the Tevs have their own jamming that can disable UEF torpedo locks, as used by the J. E. Hoover in Aristeia.
Don't be silly. You don't need an AWACS ship to do EW. Every warship (Tev or UEF) has electronic warfare capabilities, even a lowly Custos, it's just that a dedicated AWACS can do it better.QuoteAnd the UEF can't have a good number of Oculus ships left, at least at the time of Sunglare. After losing two, possibly three of them in the span of a couple weeks, it makes me wonder--especially because the tech database implies that the number of Oculus ships to escape the Fall of Jupiter was in the single-digits to begin with.This I agree with. Not to mention the Tevs have their own jamming that can disable UEF torpedo locks, as used by the J. E. Hoover in Aristeia.
Try it. Play Aristeia on Insane and don't call reinforcements when prompted. The Medea will almost always kill everything.Ingame doesn't determin backstory.
Don't be silly. You don't need an AWACS ship to do EW. Every warship (Tev or UEF) has electronic warfare capabilities, even a lowly Custos, it's just that a dedicated AWACS can do it better.Perhaps, and we've seen small scale EW in TBI, but that was against, at most, 2 ships at a time, and it didn't last long. I expect that an AWACS was necessary for large-scale beam jamming like what we see in Aristeia and Delenda Est. I don't think nullifying shock jumps is something anything short of an AWACS or maybe a destroyer can do.
Ingame doesn't determin backstory.Obviously, we don't know what the team would have done, so it's hard to judge what would have happened. However, in my experience, a Diomedes doesn't have much difficulty killing two Karunas and two Sanctuses, even when they're focusing on it. I tested the Diomedes a lot when I was making it.
The Medea was able to wreak such havok, because the Sanctus' and Karunas pretty much ignore it and stayed on course to the Hood.
And that is because the mission was build under the assumption that the player calls in reinforcements to finish the corvette off. If all four ships would have turned all of their weapons on the Medea (especially the forward facting mass drivers and gauss cannons) the fight might have ended up quite different.
You really can't judge the effectiveness of either ship class by that situation.
Try it. Play Aristeia on Insane and don't call reinforcements when prompted. The Medea will almost always kill everything.Erm...if I'm playing on Insane difficulty and not using a major chunk of assets offered to me (that the mission is balanced for, too), I would EXPECT the Medea to be capable of that. It's Insane difficulty, on a mission that is supposed to be a long shot in-universe to begin with. Canon shouldn't be based on the quirks of Insane Difficulty coupled with the player deliberately handicapping themselves. It's the mark of a player's skill, preparation, patience, and planning that they're able to beat the mission in spite of all that. It reflects nothing about a ship's merits.
The Valerie was caught unawares and was really unlucky. The Indus jumped in right behind it and got a lucky shot that managed to disable its engines and prevents it from bringing its beams to bear or jumping away. It is possible for the Indus to jump in the firing arc of the beam cannons, which will usually result in the Indus getting shredded.Why? I'm sorry, but huh? Why would one of Steele's prized Diomedes corvettes jump into the equivalent of an enemy capital city without any kind of preperation, good positioning (there were THREE AWACS ships in the area already vectoring in SSM's, not to mention the numerous other GTVA craft and ships in the area), and awareness of the tactical situation? If they were so unprepared, why were they sent at all? This is Steele, here--'unprepared, caught off-guard, hasty, poorly-thought-out, poor positioning and deployment of prized assets' is the last set of words I'd use to describe him.
Hell, the team had to make sure the Valerie stopped firing when Rheza reached a certain health level, because it would often just kill the station without you being able to do anything about it.
Try it. Play Aristeia on Insane and don't call reinforcements when prompted. The Medea will almost always kill everything.Erm...if I'm playing on Insane difficulty and not using a major chunk of assets offered to me (that the mission is balanced for, too), I would EXPECT the Medea to be capable of that. It's Insane difficulty, on a mission that is supposed to be a long shot in-universe to begin with. Canon shouldn't be based on the quirks of Insane Difficulty coupled with the player deliberately handicapping themselves. It's the mark of a player's skill, preparation, patience, and planning that they're able to beat the mission in spite of all that. It reflects nothing about a ship's merits.
This is Steele, here--'unprepared, caught off-guard, hasty, poorly-thought-out, poor positioning and deployment of prized assets' is the last set of words I'd use to describe him.Even with all the stuff Steele was able to pull off, he's still a Human being.
Why? I'm sorry, but huh? Why would one of Steele's prized Diomedes corvettes jump into the equivalent of an enemy capital city without any kind of preperation, good positioning (there were THREE AWACS ships in the area already vectoring in SSM's, not to mention the numerous other GTVA craft and ships in the area), and awareness of the tactical situation? If they were so unprepared, why were they sent at all? This is Steele, here--'unprepared, caught off-guard, hasty, poorly-thought-out, poor positioning and deployment of prized assets' is the last set of words I'd use to describe him.Steele wasn't in command of the Valerie, and it's silly to assume he has absolute control over everything. It's entirely possible the Valerie was attached to the Imperieuse rather than the Atreus, so Steele wasn't directly giving the orders there. The mistake is not necessarily his.
How did it get shock-jumped by a standard Karuna? Let alone one that had only been called for just beforehand, to a general area (and not a specific vector for shock-jumping)? And it got its engines disabled so quickly by that? I can't recall a single mission playthrough of Darkest Hour in which the Valarie's engines were disabled before it could maneuver. It always died well before its engines did.For some reason, I thought the Valerie's engines were destroyed by a SEXP when the Indus jumps in. I checked, and for some reason it does the opposite, and gives them heavy armor 20. Disregard. It can't jump out because it doesn't have a sprint drive, but I don't know why it doesn't turn.
Erm...if I'm playing on Insane difficulty and not using a major chunk of assets offered to me (that the mission is balanced for, too), I would EXPECT the Medea to be capable of that. It's Insane difficulty, on a mission that is supposed to be a long shot in-universe to begin with. Canon shouldn't be based on the quirks of Insane Difficulty coupled with the player deliberately handicapping themselves. It's the mark of a player's skill, preparation, patience, and planning that they're able to beat the mission in spite of all that. It reflects nothing about a ship's merits.Insane is the only difficulty where the player doesn't get any sort of advantage over the AI (amount of turrets allowed to target you, for instance). It doesn't handicap the player, it just stops handicapping the AI. It's the best difficulty for tests like this.
Insane is the only difficulty where the player doesn't get any sort of advantage over the AI (amount of turrets allowed to target you, for instance). It doesn't handicap the player, it just stops handicapping the AI. It's the best difficulty for tests like this.
Accuracy is determined by AI class far more than it is by difficulty. A ship running BP2-Colonel on very easy is more accurate than a ship running BP2-Lieutenant on Insane. Each difficulty level raises the accuracy stat by 5%, whereas an increase of one class (say BP2-Lieutenant to BP2-Captain) raises it by 10%. Have a look at the AI tables.Not if you put $fix AI class bug in Profiles.
It saddens me that for the much progress BP or Inferno or whatever other mod/campaign makes, no one tries to add more space mechanics to Freespace, so many possibilities.**** realism man. **** it with barbed wire.
I have to agree with that, Newtonian physics may be more realistic, but Freespace controls are way more fun to fly with. Though I did enjoy a toggle glide for getting to point A to point B faster.It saddens me that for the much progress BP or Inferno or whatever other mod/campaign makes, no one tries to add more space mechanics to Freespace, so many possibilities.**** realism man. **** it with barbed wire.
In an FS2-based mod, glide should be a spice, not a main course.Exactly. I don't mind that glide isn't in BP, as I have a hard enough time hitting with primaries when I'm not drifting to the side while trying to aim. Plus, I have a feeling I'd accidentally glide into flak and beam fire more often than I'd like.
That kind of gliding (beyond "normal" speed) isn't implemented in most FS2 mods. Once the afterburner runs out you'll just go back to non-burner top speed, even while gliding.Wingcommander Saga also uses it, one mission relies on it even
The only mods I know/remember which keep the speed no matter what while gliding are Diaspora and very old versions of TBP (and most likely Fringe Space, since Tachyon itself worked that way, but they havn't made a release yet).
Keep in mind that, post Aristeia, beam jamming is now becoming a pretty common part of UEF EW capabilities. Shock jumping has suddenly become a much less deadly tactic.
Actually the UEF AWACS ships don't jam the targetting sensors, they jam the very beams themselves by disrupting their magnetic containment. Can't have a beam without all that plasma being concentrated!I don't mean to doubt your word or anything since you probably know more about this than I do, but the Carthage fires its BGreen through jamming perfectly well once the Hanuman gets TAGged. And the Serkr corvettes fire just fine in Aristeia, they just miss. I don't think its as simple as just a targeting jam, but jamming doesn't actually prevent the beams from firing.
Actually the UEF AWACS ships don't jam the targetting sensors, they jam the very beams themselves by disrupting their magnetic containment. Can't have a beam without all that plasma being concentrated!I don't mean to doubt your word or anything since you probably know more about this than I do, but the Carthage fires its BGreen through jamming perfectly well once the Hanuman gets TAGged. And the Serkr corvettes fire just fine in Aristeia, they just miss. I don't think its as simple as just a targeting jam, but jamming doesn't actually prevent the beams from firing.
It would be nice to have a techroom entry on jamming in R2, if you have the time and feel like adding to it. :)
If we could have beams curving away from a target, or decohering near one, we would have done that. Unfortunately, the engine doesn't know how to do that.
If we could have beams curving away from a target, or decohering near one, we would have done that. Unfortunately, the engine doesn't know how to do that.
Well...you might be able to achieve an effect that's similar enough but still possible with the FSO engine. I'm just taking a stab in the dark here, but something along the lines of a beam, primary cannon shot, or even secondary weapon that's modified/designed to look something like an incoherent stream of plasma might do the trick. Create the beam/shot/projectile, then FRED the turret(s) in question to manually fire it at the right time and place.
I've actually made something (very) vaguely similar in concept as a weapon I've been trying to flesh out. Though the specifics would need some major changes, the basic concepts involved might be enough to create a makeshift solution.
I'm thinking...if going with the primary cannon shot route...a laser shot with a crazy rate of fire (looks like a stream, or close to it if you'd like that), very different head and tail widths, long laser length, unstable-looking color patterns in the start and end colors, changes in the alpha levels as necessary, and huge width in general (to look like a beam cannon that is incoherent, with a loose and warped magnetic bottle). If there's a way to randomize those exact numbers as the beam/shot fires continually, it might get the kind of effect that you're looking for (even if an Aristeia-like shot misses its target completely, it would still have the effect of an incoherent, disrupted beam).
Or, maybe, a missile route--the missile looks like a beam (like the Shivan Super Laser), the trail is super-long, and the missile's tabled trajectory/flight pattern is curved in a designated way (corkscrew, extremely poor tracking combined with an invisible countermeasure via FRED slight-of-hand, maybe?) for the desired effect?
How about a new beam weapon with an longer muzzle effect, an invisible beam texture, and no damage, to simulate the beam losing coherency pretty much immediately?
Yeah but if it's coming out like a single projectile with a trail instead of a beam it's not going to convince anyone (and it WILL look like a projectile with a trail if it is a projectile with a trail)
Well, isn't that what Volition did with the Lucifer in FS1? That seemed to work just fine...
Here's what it looked like way back when: http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL38D3D5954E105849&v=wH1tT8QNh14&feature=player_detailpage#t=417s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL38D3D5954E105849&v=wH1tT8QNh14&feature=player_detailpage#t=417s)
I forgot the Lucifer used to fire orange rainbows instead of beams.
If we could have beams curving away from a target, or decohering near one, we would have done that. Unfortunately, the engine doesn't know how to do that.What about a beam that has zero range and 1000 meters or so worth of beam fade distance? Not nearly as cool as curving beams, but it could still look pretty good.
Steele's going to have a very uphill fight against him when he fights to liberate Earth from the Elders. Dammit, that Byrne is smarter than he looks saving First Fleet for a situation like this. Hmm, I wonder what would happen to the balance of forces if the Fedayeen and Third Fleet decided the Elders no longer had mankind's best interests in mind...
Even though this recent picture looks a little worse than the previous one, is there still hope for me as a GTVA supporter? :D
Sorry.No, just a tidbit of image editing.
A different question then... :p
Were there different models of Hecates made? The Hecate that's in the 'middle' of the GTVA destroyers looks bigger than the other two.
Even though this recent picture looks a little worse than the previous one, is there still hope for me as a GTVA supporter? :D
That picture doesn't seem to include the Vengeance/Phoenicia battle group, which is a full-strength formation including corvette and cruiser escorts, nor the presence of the Agamemnon and Insuperable (a Titan/Raynor pair) being moved into position nearby, including their next-generation escorts and fighters, nor the possible Ilium/Pallas battlegroup, another full-strength formation with warship escorts and logistics train, which may be in position to surge through the node.
Vengeance/Phonecia is probably a pair of Hecates (we know one is a Hecate), though there is a small chance that the Vengeance is an Orion.
we know the meridian has withdrawn, but what of the hood and requiem? are those still in sol?The Hood is still in system, while the Requiem was forced to withdraw after an ambush.
we know the meridian has withdrawn, but what of the hood and requiem? are those still in sol?The Hood is still in system, while the Requiem was forced to withdraw after an ambush.
Why does the UEFg Masyaf have a registry of FA 1337? Since the "A" in FA is for Artillery and the Masyaf is clearly not an Artillery ship?Eh, actually is the Masyaf clearly is an Artillery ship.
Why does the UEFg Masyaf have a registry of FA 1337? Since the "A" in FA is for Artillery and the Masyaf is clearly not an Artillery ship?Eh, actually is the Masyaf clearly is an Artillery ship.
All Narayana-class Frigates are classified as "FA".
By the way, "FA" does not stand for Artillery Frigate. FG means "Frigate/General", FA stands for "Frigate/Assault"
Why does the UEFg Masyaf have a registry of FA 1337? Since the "A" in FA is for Artillery and the Masyaf is clearly not an Artillery ship?Eh, actually is the Masyaf clearly is an Artillery ship.
What class are the Illium and Pallas? General Battuta's post is the first I've heard of them.Puh...difficult.
Why does the UEFg Masyaf have a registry of FA 1337? Since the "A" in FA is for Artillery and the Masyaf is clearly not an Artillery ship?Eh, actually is the Masyaf clearly is an Artillery ship.
No it isn't, it lacks the usual Narayana main guns. I think you can even see this on the model (unless we screwed something up).
Why not just take out the wee landing bay bit in between the two prongs on the Maysaf then graft the Duke in there, like the whole ship. You could create a Narahyperion or a Hyperioyana. (or a HyperNara):nono: No. Just. No.
Lawl. We haven't seen the Masyaf in action yet. Maybe the defected tev ships had their cannons grafted onto the Masyaf.Fed reactors and power grids can't support modern GTVA beam weapons.
Fed reactors, yes. GTVA reactors, well. Again, defected GTVA corvette, tev cruiser, and the GTL Solace. Just a thought.Lawl. We haven't seen the Masyaf in action yet. Maybe the defected tev ships had their cannons grafted onto the Masyaf.Fed reactors and power grids can't support modern GTVA beam weapons.
The Tevs probably think that refitting their older ships, like the Deimos and Aeolus with blue beams, while slightly improving their combat capabilities does not justify the cost and effort of such attempt. They probably need to fit in new generators and heat sinks and new fire control that they need a whole new design overhaul. They do fit the new pulse weapons and blob turrets on their old ships however.
Abraham Lincoln's contract was awarded to Newport News Shipbuilding on 27 December 1982; her keel was laid 3 November 1984 at Newport News, Virginia. The ship was launched on 13 February 1988 and commissioned on 11 November 1989. She cost $4.726 billion in 2010 dollars.
Upon authorization, Abraham Lincoln's RCOH was anticipated to begin in 2013, and it is scheduled to take between three and four years to complete at an estimated overall cost of $3 billion USD.[45][48]
Kind of like how the Typhon was somewhat unreliable with new beam cannon technology so the Vasudans decided it would be better to concentrate on Hatshepsuts?
(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-siren.gif) HyperNara (http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-siren.gif)
Well and Nemesis...most likely it is about punishing vengeance/retribution against the shivans...
I'd be super grateful if somebody wikified that GTVA destroyer group list. Feel free to link it to the FREDZone Fleet Org page too.
It isn't that simple. Even the Tevs haven't bothered refitting Capella-era ships with blue beams, because the amount of work required to completely overhaul, say, a Hecate just isn't worth the time and resources. Hell, the Carthage has been refitted with a new reactor, but it still can't carry modern beams. You may as well build a new ship instead. And these are ships already armed with beam cannons.
UEF power grids are simply not made to handle the massive draw of a beam cannon, and you can't just take one ship's power grid and put it on another.