Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Topic started by: starfox on February 20, 2005, 12:26:42 pm
-
I was watching B5 on the other day and noticed some PSI-Core Crew Shuttles en route to destroy the Earthforce security patrol.. The name of the episode was "Epiphanies", fourth season. The odd thing about these particular shuttles were that they were able to carry 4-5 Starfurys under their "belly". So are these shuttles the same PSI Crew Shuttles seen on TBP, or are they some larger variants ?
If not, shouldn't the crew shuttles in TBP be much larger to be able to carry at least 4 additional fighters ?
I noticed that these shuttles were normal ones, not PSI-ones. But they carried black-omega fighters.
-
Weren't those shuttles referred to as carriers? I was under the impression that they were special use covert ships, unlike the Psi Corp shuttle that is just a shuttle with a fancy letter painted on. :p
-
You may be right....I remember Bester referring these ships as "heavily armed transports". But since normal transports are not armed or anything, they could be some kind of small carriers
-
Those shuttles were just like the others. The ones in TBP SHOULD be bigger, but the team has not sized them right yet. (and that episode was cool)
-
So, its its all about resizing those TBP
crew shuttles, I see. Just another thing. Those shuttles are not armed, as far as I'm
aware. So why Bester spoke of "Heavily Armed" Transports. Did he lied ? Or were these ships specifically armed for that mission only. Or third alternative would be simply that Black-Omegas were it's "weapons"
"Epiphanies" is indeed one my favourite episodes too.
-
I thinkt he crew shuttels can be armed with some weaponry of some sort. I rmember a few episodes where they where escorting large scale cap ships. So i guets they can be armed with a roket luncher/pack to give additional support to the cap ships. Also int he Movie "In The Begining" when you see the getthering of earth ship for the battle fo the line you can spot many crew shuttels in the pack that seem to take offencive positions. And yeah they are bigger in the show them the ones in TBP. So you could strp 3-4 furys under them and on top. But dunno if they have more range thne the furys, if they dont then its pointlest to strap furys on them.
-
Originally posted by EAD TAES
But dunno if they have more range thne the furys, if they dont then its pointlest to strap furys on them.
Except of course that you can presumably go to the bathroom onboard the shuttle, or get out of your flightsuit when you want to go to sleep. While that would require a transit from the shuttle interior to the fighter or vice-versa, that's probably not that big of a deal.
-
I had totally forgotten "In the beginning"
Thanks for reminding me ! The President in fact asked the support of "every ship capable of fighting" so I think its clear that these crew shuttles can be armed when neccessary.
-
Or they were just packed with explosives and ready to ram some Minbari boneheads.
-
That is also possible. Thinking that towards the end, Earthforce pilots didn't really cared much about their lives anymore.
Those touching scenes from "In the beginning" really give that impression.
"They would weep, They would pray, They would say goodbye to their loved ones, then throw themselves without fear or hesitation into the very face of death itself, never surrendering."
-
Originally posted by Deepblue
Those shuttles were just like the others. The ones in TBP SHOULD be bigger, but the team has not sized them right yet. (and that episode was cool)
All the episodes involving Bester were cool.
-
Originally posted by starfox
That is also possible. Thinking that towards the end, Earthforce pilots didn't really cared much about their lives anymore.
Those touching scenes from "In the beginning" really give that impression.
"They would weep, They would pray, They would say goodbye to their loved ones, then throw themselves without fear or hesitation into the very face of death itself, never surrendering."
Yeah thats true but they didnt ram the mimbary ships just to ram them they normaly ramed the mimbary because they couldn,t figth anymore. Like Sciclaire that treid to ram a mimbary war cruiser when he lost his weapons system and his power cells going critical.
-
Right, "Beside good 'ol Nuke" ramming seemed to be the only 100 % way of disposing those damn bonehead Warcruisers. As is evident ramming was used as last resort, since Minbari did not took prisoners and surrendering a crippled ship was not on option.
So far we have only seen one Nova-class Dreadnought to commit ramming run.
I'm not sure about starfuries, thought I saw one or two them smashing into the top "fin" of the Sharlin, could have been accident though.
-
Sinclair was also going to try ramming though. From his comments it did sound like he believed he could do some serious damage to the cruiser by raming it.
-
If I remember right Sinclair said "Computer set for full velocity ram..afterburners on my mark." To have the starfury computers loaded with that command they must have been using it allot. You never heard that command givin through the rest of the series.
-
Can't believe I forgot Sinclair's ramming.
To write the truth I never paid deep attention into that line. I just thought Sinclair was giving voice command to set his fighter to ram Sharlin, when in fact he apparently activated "ramming command" from Starfury's computer.
Feels logical to think that Starfury's were preloaded with last-resort commands.
Just to think how single fighter would cause considerable damage to Sharlin Warcruiser ? Perhaps he attempted to destroy Sharlin's bridge, or command center.
-
Well if you watch Severed Dreams again when the debris from that exploding tunderbolt hits the command deck it does do some minor damage to it even through the blast doors.
That's part of why you need fighters in the B5 universe (To stop enemy fighters simply shooting at your vulnerable spots).
-
We see more thne one Nova used raming. Ramming is a prety comond last resort technique in the EA.
In the movie "In the begining" We see one Nova ram a Sharling, we see one fot he firsts Omegas built Ram a Sharling int he back ground of that. If i remember right. We also saw some starfurys ram into the fins of a sharling. And then their is Sinclairs raming attemtp. Also in the defenc eof babylon 5 The Churchil rammed one of the Earth loyalist Destroyers.
And I think their wa s qutoe soemwher eint he series thta made reference to that, That Takign on the EA even if you where stornger then them was a grave mistake because they woudl never knell before an enemy.
-
Captain Anderson and EAS Victory, from the "Call to arms" rams his ship into the primary system of the Shadow/Drakh
Deathcloud (I love those things, wish they had shown more of them in series)
"Severed Dreams" had some funny nameprobs. First Churchill rammed with Roanoke ! Then at the end, Sheridan urges Roanoke to surrender, but it was destroyed earlier, so the last Omega exploding had to be Agrippa. Speaking of, what hapened to the two Midwinters/Hyperions from the first wave ?
Despite these little...buggs. I found this episode very entertaining.
-
Originally posted by starfox
Speaking of, what hapened to the two Midwinters/Hyperions from the first wave ?
Despite these little...buggs. I found this episode very entertaining.
Nailed off screen. And yeah, SD is full of continuity (sp?) erros but what the hell.
-
by EAD TAES
We also saw some starfurys ram into the fins of a sharling.
It did crash into the Sharlin, it can be seen that is was spinning out of control.
That wasn't a ramming manouver. it was more like what happened to Ivannovas fighter in "Severed Dreams".
-
I remember that scene, you could actually see fighters in the distance doing a sharp turn to avoid a crash.
-
Originally posted by Deepblue
Those shuttles were just like the others. The ones in TBP SHOULD be bigger, but the team has not sized them right yet. (and that episode was cool)
Actually, no they were not and yes we do have the right size.
In episodes 'A Voice in the Wilderness' and 'The Summoning' (these are the two that come to mind) you see a crew shuttle right next to a StarFury. In both cases, the StarFury is very much the same size if not bigger in its silhouette. So therefore, the standard crewshuttle by the given CGI sequences matches the size of our crew shuttle.
The PSI Corps craft that we saw were significantly scalled up. We see this in numerous sequences all throughout Babylon 5 CGI (the Whitestar starts off small and gets bigger in size as the series goes on BTW :D).
So they can only be explained as Carriers or Assault Transports.
-
I was wondering how long it would take for the obvious to emerge. Solution? Just make type 2 of the crew shuttle and arm it with a single turret.
-
I've long thought about making a fighter/ship of my own. But there has always been that voice on the back of my head. "Don't do it, you screw it, leave it to the others."
Making a type 2 shuttle with single turret ? Might try it sometimes, and doesn't sound too hard for the humble beginner like myself. I never had the gutts to try modelling anything, but that about to change !
-
Originally posted by EAD TAES
In the movie "In the begining" We see one Nova ram a Sharling, we see one fot he firsts Omegas built Ram a Sharling int he back ground of that.
First of all greetings to every one sinze i guess that this is my first post in this forum.
I had read about a Omega (or Nova-X) ramming a Sharlin in "in the beggining" but io havent noticed it never.. i have the movie on DVD format but i cant find it, i only see the magnificent scene of a Nova ramming a sharlin... anyone knows where a capture of the Omega ramming the sharlin can be found?
About those two Hyperions in SD, some websites claims that they were "Roosvellt" class patroll cruisers of 600 meters long , not the main Hyperion/Midwinter of 1km long.. JMS said that they were took out off screen but there was a site wich claimed that they were simply in the background covering the back..
JMS weights more ...
-
It would be cool to see it a little better armed than just one turret.
I mean Bester did say they were heavily armed, maybe they could have several point defence cannonas and one large turret maybe having a missile pod or heavy pulse cannon of some kind.
I mean if they are expected to drop furies with a limated range in a combat zone they have to be able to protect themselves or the furies are screwed even if they win as their transport is gone.
-
I have "In the beginning" too ! Very touching movie.
Anyway,as far as I know, first Omegas were built after the war, I don't think Earth would have started to build a whole new ship class during a desperate war, they lacked X-Ray beams and all....
Whitch bring me to Nova-X. What it had so special to be called "X-class". I mean were they some kind of prototype Omegas.
As for those transports/carriers/Shuttles seen during the Epiphanies, they didn't seem to have any external weapon pods or cannons when they carried those Black-Omegas. For me they seemed to completely unmodified and completely unarmed, only larger. Though they might have some gunports, which would convienently hide those weapons.
I could post a few small screenshots, but there's one slight problem, I actually have never posted any screenies before, could someone be kind and give some...instructions.
I know it should be very simple process, but one does not know until he asks.
-
Originally posted by starfox
I could post a few small screenshots, but there's one slight problem, I actually have never posted any screenies before, could someone be kind and give some...instructions.
I know it should be very simple process, but one does not know until he asks.
1) Get a jpg image (somehow)
2) upload it to webspace (NB: you need to have a provider that will allow remote linking; I don't think tripod or geocities do)
3) Enclose the link for the image within IMG tags; i.e. [ IMG ]www.imagelocation.com/image1.jpg[ /IMG ] (remove the spaces before and after IMG to get it to work; I needed to do it this way to show the code)
Alternatively just click the 'IMG' button at the top of the new post page.
NB: if the image is larger than about 800 pixels wide, I'd recommend using the 'LVLSHOT' instead of 'IMG'; this resizes it, and surrounds the smaller image with a link to the full size one
HTH :)
-
There is a scene in "in the beggining" just when the war starts after the first contact , you can see a fleet of earth ships being wipped out in seconds, in the background you can see some 3 or 4 aparently Omega class destroyers..
To fix it up someone came with that those were in reality Nova-X class dreadnoughts, the special feature is obbiously the rotating section added to the Nova
http://www.b5tech.com/science/misc/Omega_Evolution/Omega_Evo.htm
http://www.b5tech.com/earthalliance/earthallianceshipsandvessels/earthcapships/novax/novax.html
Thats the full description, basically it was the prototype of the Omega class destroyer but the war delayed its production until the end.. also there was one guy who pointed that sinze the first Omega class destroyer was the EAS Achilles , the class name may come from the first of the 5 modified Nova-Xs .. in that same site they tell that one of the 5 Nova-X rammed a Sharlin and thats the pic i never have found and i requested. ;7
-
Thanks for your help in posting those instructions Aldo_14, I'm sure they will be helpful in time being.
I checked those B5tech, watched the battle sequence from "In the Beginning" and compared them. They do match and these Novas do indeed have rotating sections !
I too, have never found a single clean screenshot of Nova-X ramming Sharlin.
Anyway thanks for the links, Sparrow.
Though I have some concern about the ship specs b5tech offers, these images were still usefull.
"While JMS and the crew of Netter Digital were quick to edit out as many instances of the Omega as possible, some, unfortunately, slipped by and created a conondrum for many fans."
Puts me to think that omegas were meant to be "heavy Warships" during the war, much like Novas. JMS may have decided that omegas were too advanced for the Eartforce of that time, and decided to demote Omegas into Novas. This in only my assumption though
I also like the idea that these five special-Novas were, as b5tech said "forerunners of Omega". Like testbeds for later desings.
-
After much public debate, fans have rationalized away this incongruity by theorizing that these five starships are NOT Omega class Destroyers, but rather they are modified Nova class Dreadnoughts.
Why not just simply say that it's a F**k-up and be done with it! :D
-
Yeah, even though Babylon 5 is not shown on TV anymore, someone like JMS should just officially tell everyone that these ships were CGI-screws and end this debate once and for all !
When the explanation cames from JMS himself, it should satisfy all fans.
-
Hmm, I just realized I'm bored with B5 now. Meh.
-
Lets just say it's not the only error they made in ITB.
For example why it the blood on one of the people on the hyperion sheridan is on running down his face, without any gravity?
-
Originally posted by -Norbert-
Lets just say it's not the only error they made in ITB.
For example why it the blood on one of the people on the hyperion sheridan is on running down his face, without any gravity?
Well the ship was spining out of control in the asteroid field, if she was spining in the right direction that could be.. again that is not possible sinze we see the dead captain blood floating still. Gravity and filmmakers are not friends.
In "2010 Oddyssey 2" the russian space ship, the Leonov (wich indicentaly was based to make the B5 Omega class destroyer) has rotating sections to create gravity, at one point they dock with the Discovery and they stop the rotating sections to avoid hit the Discovery with them.. well, with the rotating sections stoped inside the ship there is still gravity and you can see even falling objects from their hands...
ops.. im going very out the topic and fallin in SCi-Fic pointless points.. :shaking:
-
( http://www.hut.fi/~shaavist/b5/kaksoset.html )
-
For the bloo dof a crew on on his face runing down you can say that was a makeup screwup.
But damn the rotating sections of the Omega and Leonov are almost identical.
-
Bruce Willis and Jerry Doyle !, damn they look alike. I watched Die Hard just few days ago and noticed how much Bruce Willis looked like Garibaldi. It just snapped
"I've seen this guy somewhere !"
-
The Omega's in some of the sequences of ITB are a CGI screw-up and nothing more. I think people need to stop explaining it away and realize that not everything fits into canon - there were mistakes in production and we know what they were. Fortunately, they aren't as bad as some of the more grevious errors in Star Trek CGI.
-
Like an episode of Voyager I saw the other day that has a shuttle changing shape about 3 or 4 times. :D
-
In B5 they ussualy try to fix goofs.
I renember one episode when a destroyer pops out hyperspace and kills some civilian ships, when airing the destroyer was the Agamemnon, from second screener to DVD it was "At olf comunist revision fashion" mysterious changed to the EAS Pollux.
And yet in "in the beginning" in the battle of the line you can see two "EAS Hyperion" almost side by side but with distinct hull number
-
They where only 5 Omegas spoted in ITB. And that battel toke plac ein the Orion system. The Theory was that they where prototipes to increas the efficiency of the EA before the Earth-Mimbary war. And i would support that since from knowlege we ahve Earth Force started producing Omega's very shortly after the war. That would lea dto belive they would have tested the desing before hand. So i dont think the 5 Omegas are a fluke. Their a part of the story we didn't get to see.
-
Unless something very official comes up someday, I still believe that these X-Ships are and were CGI-Screw. Nothing more and nothing less. We all have our own opinions and believes, whics are all 100 % real in our own minds. As always, that is just my own opinion.
Though I find the theory of "experimental testbed ships" fascinating, given the fact that Earth had quite an interest in "Hybrid ships" like Omega-X, Shadow Hybrid Vessel, Warlock and later Victory-class models. But all of these ships were created after a war, so they will not make this theory any more "official" than any other.
-
Before the Earth Mimbary was Earth had finished the Dilgar war justa few years before. Where they had to travel far to get to the enemy. Ships with Zero gravaty would ahve limited their military operations in deep space. So the Omega and its atificial gravaty could very well have been thought up following that war.
-
Ships with rotating sections in the EAF had to exist way before, Explores class ships are pre-mimbari war and have a rotating B5 style section. Only that i guess that until the Omega the designs were as worthy or advanced enought to work greatly in a heavy combat ship. the rotating section have to be armoured sinze it contains the crew and have to fit well in a combat vessel wich fires and is fired upon and acelarates, turn etc more heavily and fast than any civilan ship like Assimov class liners.
Is quite funny that after almost two hundred of spacial flight they get artificial gravity in a heavy combat ship in the 2247 with the Omega to get true artifical gravity (via Mimbari) only 14 years after and step away from Narns, Leage and others