Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Colonol Dekker on June 28, 2010, 05:00:58 am
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Firstly, i'm expecting NOBODY to bring release dates into this topic as it will only end up pissing off the BP team.
I was just sitting on the train into work and about two dozen ideas fluttered through my head.
Like, what if a solar force frigate was captured, what if they crashed the node again deliberately.
What if from the few GTVA ships that defected, solar forces get info with which they can do a wrath of khan style takeover of allied TEV vessels?
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What if from the few GTVA ships that defected, solar forces get info with which they can do a wrath of khan style takeover of allied TEV vessels?
I have enough faith in the team to believe they're not going to do anything remotely that retarded.
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Like, what if a solar force frigate was captured, what if they crashed the node again deliberately.
Presumably the gate would keep it open.
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One of our goals was and is to portrait the GTVA and the UEF as very competent forces. A deus ex machina like that would not fit within the framework of the conflict we have in mind.
As for the node getting closed again, that would just make little sense. The UEF fights for the right to not be forcibly assimilated into the GTVA, not to be all alone once again.
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Hey hey, let's keep dev commentary out of the thread.
WE HAVE THE PREFIX CODES
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Like, what if a solar force frigate was captured
I'd volunteer to take the captured Fed frigate on one last ride into hell (Preferably packed full of antimatter) - aka the nearest Fed shipyard.
FOR THE GTVA!
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What if from the few GTVA ships that defected, solar forces get info with which they can do a wrath of khan style takeover of allied TEV vessels?
You, sir, have just exchanged BSG geek cred for ST geek cred. I heartily approve. :yes:
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Lol appreciate the kudos. But I dunno where the BSG reference is =3
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Lol appreciate the kudos. But I dunno where the BSG reference is =3
I think that's his point, you've gone and lost some of your BSG-geek credit to ST geek credit ^^
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Like, what if a solar force frigate was captured
I'd volunteer to take the captured Fed frigate on one last ride into hell (Preferably packed full of antimatter) - aka the nearest Fed shipyard.
FOR THE GTVA!
FOR THE REPUBLIC!
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Lol appreciate the kudos. But I dunno where the BSG reference is =3
I think that's his point, you've gone and lost some of your BSG-geek credit to ST geek credit ^^
I never knew I was considered a BSG geek, I've never even seen the new series lol. That 80's one with flying bikes is best :yes:
Anywaaaaaaay, from the limited understanding of UEF doctrine I have, am I right in thinking that their ground forces / ships defensive troops favour specialist high calibre training over numbers?
Just imagining a ground engagement / boarding action.
Edit-
I'M WITH YOU RAVENHOLME!
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So guys, how do you know flying bikes won't be in WiH?
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Anywaaaaaaay, from the limited understanding of UEF doctrine I have, am I right in thinking that their ground forces / ships defensive troops favour specialist high calibre training over numbers?
How did you arrive at that conclusion? I am genuinely interested in the reasoning, as I am pretty sure we haven't published any info about the UEF Ground Forces....
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FOR THE REPUBLIC!
At least make it a space sim reference, dammit!
"For the greater glory of the Empire, DESTROY EVERYTHING."
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Like, what if a solar force frigate was captured
I'd volunteer to take the captured Fed frigate on one last ride into hell (Preferably packed full of antimatter) - aka the nearest Fed shipyard.
FOR THE GTVA!
FOR THE REPUBLIC!
Someone's been watching the "Hope" Trailer for The Old Republic, I'm guessing? :P
And, Hell yeah Dekker - Tevs forever! You man the tactical station, I've got the helm!
Edit:
That's actually why I hope the First Battle of Neptune and other GTVA scenarios will be included in the mission simulator - I really want to be able to fight for the right cause against those soft, peace-fattened Feds. And I just had an idea for an Alternate Universe campaign where the GTVA triumphs. I'd probably call it Entanglement in a not-to-subtle Half-Life 2 reference
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How did you arrive at that conclusion? I am genuinely interested in the reasoning, as I am pretty sure we haven't published any info about the UEF Ground Forces....
Some of you enjoy comparing them to The Culture far too much, forgetting The Culture wins because it's never faced an opponent of remotely comparable resources. :P
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Someone's been watching the "Hope" Trailer for The Old Republic, I'm guessing? :P
And, Hell yeah Dekker - Tevs forever! You man the tactical station, I've got the helm!
Edit:
That's actually why I hope the First Battle of Neptune and other GTVA scenarios will be included in the mission simulator - I really want to be able to fight for the right cause against those soft, peace-fattened Feds. And I just had an idea for an Alternate Universe campaign where the GTVA triumphs. I'd probably call it Entanglement in a not-to-subtle Half-Life 2 reference
That trailer was awesome. :D
By the way, Battle of Neptune is playable, but the other Terran mission (+ mini campaign) I played around with aren't really in a playable state. I'll put some effort in after first release and get them done for second, hopefully.
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How did you arrive at that conclusion? I am genuinely interested in the reasoning, as I am pretty sure we haven't published any info about the UEF Ground Forces....
Some of you enjoy comparing them to The Culture far too much, forgetting The Culture wins because it's never faced an opponent of remotely comparable resources. :P
Actually, the Idirans were fairly comparable - especially because they were a much more militaristic regime and The Culture had to pretty much work from a standing start against them - and they still won, even though the cost was high.
Edit:
That's great, Dilmah G, at least there will be some Tev love forthcoming from the dev team :D
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Some of you enjoy comparing them to The Culture far too much, forgetting The Culture wins because it's never faced an opponent of remotely comparable resources.
Yes, but that was speculation and similes (some of it may have also been intentionally misleading). And just because I can say "This aspect of Ubuntu is sort of like The Culture" doesn't mean the entire UEF is a Culture expy.
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Some of you enjoy comparing them to The Culture far too much, forgetting The Culture wins because it's never faced an opponent of remotely comparable resources.
Yes, but that was speculation and similes (some of it may have also been intentionally misleading). And just because I can say "This aspect of Ubuntu is sort of like The Culture" doesn't mean the entire UEF is a Culture expy.
Yeah, I expect that the UEF would have a decent military - a bit like more hippy Starship Troopers (Films, not the books), and without their allergy to intelligent use of air and armour assets. But that secret militaristic arm of the Ubuntu (Feyadeen, something like that) is probably like a lower-tech Special Circumstances mated with the SAS.
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Lol appreciate the kudos. But I dunno where the BSG reference is =3
I think that's his point, you've gone and lost some of your BSG-geek credit to ST geek credit ^^
What I mean is that most of the sci-fi traffic on HLP is BSG-related thanks to Diaspora. The majority of HLP posters, when thinking of a computer-controlled takeover of a spaceship in a sci-fi series, would immediately cite the opening of the reimagined BSG series when all the colonial ships get taken over by a Cylon virus. The virus was made possible thanks to information retrieved from a Colonial expert. It's similar to the situation in Wrath of Khan, but it differs in scope and in some minor details. :)
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I would like to confirm the existence of flying bikes with laser beams in WiH.
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I'd like you to as well. . . . .
But can you definitively?
Also, Goob, WOK was on last night ;D
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I would like to confirm the existence of flying bikes with laser beams in WiH.
Hoverbike swarm?
You've been playing X-Com Apocalypse again...
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How did you arrive at that conclusion? I am genuinely interested in the reasoning, as I am pretty sure we haven't published any info about the UEF Ground Forces....
Some of you enjoy comparing them to The Culture far too much, forgetting The Culture wins because it's never faced an opponent of remotely comparable resources. :P
The UEF is not the Culture. It's similar in one respect where analogy is useful.
That said the Culture definitely tangled with the Idirans, which in military terms were certainly remotely comparable.
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You've been playing X-Com Apocalypse again...
Damn you for reminding me!
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You've been playing X-Com Apocalypse again...
I can't help it!
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I never really liked apocalypse.
From the box art to the music.
Do the UEF play xcom still? I'd imagine that forcing children to play it would instill a love of Earth. . . . . . . But a fear of Mars. :d'oh:
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Or loyality to Mars. After all you wipe the sectoid base (Cydonia?) on Mars out. Maybe kids will think that X-Com build a base there to keep vigil and the Marsies are descentants of that guardian force :lol:
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...the Shivans appear and the UEF and GTVA have to team up to defeat them... :o
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...the Shivans appear and the UEF and GTVA have to team up to defeat them... :o
boooooooo
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Also, Goob, WOK was on last night ;D
Awesome. :)
And speaking of which, this is EPIC...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxwJjh1oUSQ
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That's so funny I've got a semi.
Cheers lol.
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Capship shields are loveable and I'm surprised more campaigns haven't used them. I believe they're still split into quads.
Does that mean we are seeing cap ships with shields in BP? ;7
*throws the bomb and runs away*
They are a feature we have worked with and plan to use, but don't draw any storyline conclusions from that.
Speculate away :)
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Capship shields are loveable and I'm surprised more campaigns haven't used them. I believe they're still split into quads.
Does that mean we are seeing cap ships with shields in BP? ;7
*throws the bomb and runs away*
They are a feature we have worked with and plan to use, but don't draw any storyline conclusions from that.
Speculate away :)
...
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There will be a severely underarmed UED with shields dispatched to collapse the node to Delta Serp with magical sillytech that the UEF has developed.
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There will be a severely underarmed UED with shields dispatched to collapse the node to Delta Serp with magical sillytech that the UEF has developed.
Pretty hard to do anything like that with the Sol Gate on the other side. They could just reopen it.
Also, man, I wish you people could read.
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Bats doesn't say that they are using them, only that they looked at them. Which, for me, suggest, that they're not going to be in WiH at the very least (If in BP saga at all)
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They'll probably be appearing in BP3, on Shivan capships, if anything...
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Pretty hard to do anything like that with the Sol Gate on the other side. They could just reopen it.
That's why it would be magical sillytech. I wish you could read. :P
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Pretty hard to do anything like that with the Sol Gate on the other side. They could just reopen it.
That's why it would be magical sillytech. I wish you could read. :P
The reading jab was a reference to the fact that a statement including the words 'don't try to draw too much story info from it' was immediately cross-posted to a story speculation thread.
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I predict the player character is female and a total badass.
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I predict the player character is female and a total badass.
I predict the player character is female and REDACTED BY ORDER OF THE TEAM BECAUSE HE TESTED A FEW MISSIONS
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The reading jab was a reference to the fact that a statement including the words 'don't try to draw too much story info from it' was immediately cross-posted to a story speculation thread.
How is this a pure story speculation thread and not a general one? The only limitation Dekker gave when opening this thread was not to talk about release dates, so it seems to me speculating about features is okay too.
And even if it is a pure story speculation thread such a feature as capship shields would be relevant, since it would have an impact on the story, if implemented.
Furthermore you wrote "dont' try to draw too much story info...". If you don't want any speculation just say "it won't be in WiH". "Don't anticipate something too" much sounds to me like it either isn't decided or will take a long time till it comes, not that it won't come at all for sure, which leaves it open for speculation by the fans.
And I'd also like to point out that it isn't exactly good forum conduct to quote a post just to put three dots below it followed by a semi-insult a few posts later.
That out of the way I too expect them to be only in BP3 if at all. And on a new Vishnan ship probably. After all the don't really have anything to counter a Sathanas in their arsenal, with the Sacred Keeper being more like a command carrier, best suited to stay out of combat. It might have one big gun, but that just doesn't cut it against a Sath. Besides that the Keeper is too important to risk on a frontal assault, because without it the attached battle group and all fighters stop working.
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Sorry if I came off too harsh there. But I don't want to create false expectations that you'll be seeing a fleet of shielded capships in War in Heaven R1.
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Regardless of how much we hype it up (Transcendant fighting for Tevs anyone?)
There's no way anyone with half a braincell will feel let down so don't worry TEEM. :D
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I predict the player character is female and a total badass.
(http://collativelearning.com/PICS%20FOR%20WEBSITE/assorted%20pics%20for%20film%20reviews/fmj%20sniper.png)
Red. Sniper.
No, I will never stop saying this.
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I predict the player character is female and a total badass.
*IMG HERE*
Red. Sniper.
No, I will never stop saying this.
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1397/1255658527_bbbc22a9b2_m.jpg)
"Snipin's a good job, mate"
Well, if the main character is female, then should could well be one of the females in that video I watched ages ago... the one who was flirting with a superior officer when the Tevs finally backed off?
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Oooh yeah. The Lesbian :yes:
What was that topic called?
This is the oppertune time to collate all material such as videos and developer tidbits and form our own opinions to be disproven or not later :D
I propose a possibly hedonistic lifestyle aboard ship similar to the episode of Red Dwarf featuring the enlightenment.
Each Fed vessel has one of "those" decks. Why else would people openly flirt in combat ;7
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I'd personally be more concerned with staying alive. :D
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I've been known to play phone porn during live fire exercises.
LOUDLY :lol:
Fed support ships, i'd imagine they use them or i'd lose a comm menu option :(
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Dude, I am so remembering to do that next time I find myself on the RAAF Base Pearce range. :D
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Come on guys, where's my speculah?
I predict tactical meson bombs will fill the role of nukes and we'll see some used on civilians at some point. Atrocities! Awesome!
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Well... there was the mention of the Hecate nuking Luna in that mission video....
But considering that the GTVA is trying to "free" the general population from their government and absorb them back into the fold for their own good, intentional atrocities against those civilians they try to save aren't very likely.
Both sides want to safe humanity after all. They just have radically different ideas of how to do it.
Though disasters caused by collateral damage or accidents (like a ship's engine being destroyed in low orbit, causing it to crash into a city on the surface) are alway possible in war I guess.
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Well... there was the mention of the Hecate nuking Luna in that mission video....
But considering that the GTVA is trying to "free" the general population from their government and absorb them back into the fold for their own good, intentional atrocities against those civilians they try to save aren't very likely.
Both sides want to safe humanity after all. They just have radically different ideas of how to do it.
Though disasters caused by collateral damage or accidents (like a ship's engine being destroyed in low orbit, causing it to crash into a city on the surface) are alway possible in war I guess.
And a good propaganda machine turns such accidents into deliberate attempts by the utterly inhuman and cruel Tevs. Yeah, I'm onto the UEF.
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I love the GTvA(minus Zods)
But I love Earth too. . . .
That's WHY we MUST seize SOL by ANY means necessary!
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Desperta Ferrero! Or was it Desperto Ferrera? Either way- ... oh damn it...
/me starts thinking about chocolate.
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I'm surprised you didn't fit a Desperata Ferrari in there as well....
Anyway....
And a good propaganda machine turns such accidents into deliberate attempts by the utterly inhuman and cruel Tevs. Yeah, I'm onto the UEF.
I guess that door can swing both ways. "See the evil UEF. In their attempt to hold on to their power, they care nothing for the lives of their citizens! Rise up and free yourself of the hypocrits who preach peace, but sacrifice civilians in the thousand for their ambition!".
Would the Fedayeen (or however they were called) go as far as staging an atrocity to blame it on the Tevs? While I'm pretty confident in the UEF leaders not doing something like that off, those guys are a wildcard and might be willing and able to pull something like that off.
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The prose has stated that the UEF culture has a big issue with the "kill one, save a thousand" math that's
sometimes often needed when facing a threat capable of wiping your species off the face of the galaxy. Also, killing your own citizens and attempting to blame it on the GTVA is incredibly risky, since if it works, it works, and if it fails you've given your enemies a huge propaganda victory.
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We've all seen the thread about driving a Fed capship, do you think we'll get a chance to flap about in a Tev one, if only in a simulator mission?
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The problem is that, as it is written right now, the script has to be tailored for every ship class, meaning it doesn't enable all the goodies for every ship class automatically. I'll be working on refining that as I go along, but for the moment, this isn't planned.
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We've all seen the thread about driving a Fed capship, do you think we'll get a chance to flap about in a Tev one, if only in a simulator mission?
I hope so, I think that was my comment when it came up in SVN Commit of the day. I want to control a Tev ship, maybe one of the new corvettes.
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Controlling a Tev warship would be a lot less interesting than flying the Karuna. The majority of Tev warships only have beams to control, while the Karuna has a huge arsenal of interesting and unique weapons that all have their strengths and weaknesses. Driving a Chimera or Bellerophon would involve nothing more than lining up and shooting a target...
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You could mount Eos or Supernovas on the Deimos' secondary banks. :nervous:
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You could mount Eos or Supernovas on the Deimos' secondary banks. :nervous:
Or give them something like the GTD Titan class' torpedoes (Those might be the things you mentioned, though)
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You could mount Eos or Supernovas on the Deimos' secondary banks. :nervous:
Or give them something like the GTD Titan class' torpedoes (Those might be the things you mentioned, though)
Yep, the Titan fires Supernovas.
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You could mount Eos or Supernovas on the Deimos' secondary banks. :nervous:
Or give them something like the GTD Titan class' torpedoes (Those might be the things you mentioned, though)
Yep, the Titan fires Supernovas.
Thought it might be, but wasn't really certain.
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Driving a Chimera or Bellerophon would involve nothing more than lining up and shooting a target...
That depends on how complex your ability to control secondary battery is.
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Driving a Chimera or Bellerophon would involve nothing more than lining up and shooting a target...
That depends on how complex your ability to control secondary battery is.
For the moment, point defense guns, including blobs and beams, auto-target. We could pretty easily divide them into banks and put them under player control, but you'd probably end up leaving them on auto most of the time anyway...
Something like a Diomedes, on the other hand, could be a lot of fun to fly.
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You're forgetting that when you fly a capship, it's not just 'point and shoot', ever, really. Especially on a Terran warship, you can engage multiple targets concurrently by flying the ship correctly, so each cannon battery has a clean arc of fire to its respective targets. Then there's the matter of rolling the ship and maneuvering it to keep hostile fighters in the AAA fire pockets of the vessel.
Then there's also correct disposal of the fighter escort, which can make your life much easier.
I don't think flying any kind of capital ship would be 'boring', so to speak.
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I don't think flying any kind of capital ship would be 'boring', so to speak.
If done properly.
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:bump:
Just noticed this in the RC4 changelog:
r6255 | chief1983 | 2010-06-22 15:47:11 -0500 (Tue, 22 Jun 2010) | 1 line
Backport of r6067: add beam miss factor by team, requested by Blue Planet
Does this portend something like UEF getting beams for their ships?
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Nope, not really.
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/facepalm/
I read that as meaning by species, not by team. Woops.
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What's a Diomedes?
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Next gen Tev Corvette. Sort of a direct equivalent of the Karuna Frigate in terms of mission profile.
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Does it come in british racing green?
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I demand red racing stripes on it since red goes faster.
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What's a Diomedes?
The GTCv Sparta from StratComm's Terran fleet pack.
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THIS
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IS
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SPAAAAAARRRTAAAAAAAAAAA
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<3
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Are you agreeing with Snail or is that a broken link General :confused:
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Are you agreeing with Snail or is that a broken link General :confused:
Read the two posts after it, my friend.
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What's a Diomedes?
The GTCv Sparta from StratComm's Terran fleet pack.
GTMf Sparta.
Originally it was a Marine Transport (Marine..Ferry? I don't recall what the f stands for.)
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Ahhh sorry. Still have two mile walk over undulating terrain and it's getting light in two hours lol.
I'm appropriately tired and am having trouble reading the page numbers.
Edit- Mf = missile frigate?
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GT Mother F'ing Sparta :drevil:
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GT Mother F'ing Sparta :drevil:
Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking. ;7
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I predict neither side will have a straight-up victory. It will end in a draw of some sort... or interrupted by SHIVANS. D:
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SHIVANS?
Or maybe VISHNANS?
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:wtf: to the mass-spam above.
Are you taking distance from the fantasy stuff seen in AoA? In poor words, how different from AoA is it going to be?
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:wtf: to the mass-spam above.
Lighten up. :)
Are you taking distance from the fantasy stuff seen in AoA? In poor words, how different from AoA is it going to be?
IMO one of the kewl things about WiH is that while it's a very different experience to AoA, it still manages to combine the numerous positive elements from the more memorable campaigns. It combines (in your terms) the 'military experience' and 'character-driven campaign' types, proving that they need not be mutually exclusive. It not only focuses on the big picture, but also how the individual characters develop and are affected by the huge events going on around them.
There's also some semi-mystical stuff going on in the background as a sort of underlying theme, just enough to draw in those who loved AoA's fantasy elements, but not enough to obscure the extremely gritty, immersive war scenario going on in the foreground.
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There's also some semi-mystical stuff going on in the background as a sort of underlying theme, just enough to draw in those who loved AoA's fantasy elements, but not enough to obscure the extremely gritty, immersive war scenario going on in the foreground.
I'm afraid of the semi-mystical stuff. :nervous:
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There is no more mystical stuff in War in Heaven than there is in FreeSpace 1. Anyone who's read the techroom intelligence entries should understand everything on a non-mystical level by now. (And, in fact, there was no mysticism in AoA either by these standards).
We've intentionally provided enough information to make a fool of anyone who cries 'mysticism'.
Mobius, you should read the Director's Cut techroom (after finishing the campaign).
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That's why I said semi-mystical. It evokes allusions to myth and legend and stuff but it's still explained (to some extent) via more "scientific" means. That said, I do like the Vasudan approach of viewing everything as simply existing and scientific, rather than labeling things we don't understand as OMG WTF MAGIC!!
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Given the way it's handled in WiH Mobius will probably be literally afraid of it. ;7
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By afraid I mean that I don't want it to ruin your work because things are fun when they're based on realistic stuff, regardless of how weird they sound. I think FS is not the right game for the kind of RPG (or jRPG) experience we have seen in AoA.
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There is no more mystical stuff in War in Heaven than there is in FreeSpace 1.
War in Heaven is probably the most military campaign I've ever seen. Its themes are about the psychology of war and the ambiguity of morality.
That said, you're not obliged to like it. There's plenty of room in FreeSpace for all kinds of stories. What ruins the experience for you may be someone else's favorite point.
Honestly, if you want to worry about anything, it should be the amount of dialogue. Even with skip triggers for all the big dialogue sequences, I still stress out about it.
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I do not put my likings on a superior level compared to other people's. I think, however, that unconventional campaigns, despite the positive feedback they can get, are more vulnerable to criticism (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=60502.msg1192429#msg1192429) due to their own nature.
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*shrug* We disagree.
We'd rather make a campaign that gets a hundred overjoyed, amazed reviews and a few mediocre ones than a campaign that gets a hundred 'okay, that was pretty good' reviews.
That reviewer liked Blue Planet. The community like Blue Planet; it's the most popular campaign out there right now. Most people love Blue Planet. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70375.0) We're not going to stop having characters. We're not going to abandon the mytharc and mysteries set up in AoA, even if we step away from them for WiH.
See, if you let mixed reviews stop you, you're ignoring the fact that everyone (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68212.msg1388757#msg1388757) loved (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68212.msg1365131#msg1365131) Blue Planet.
If you tell a strong story inevitably some people are going to disagree with the decisions you made. The answer to that is not to make a tepid story that everybody finds inoffensive. A good story takes risks, it bites.
What we did in War in Heaven is very different from Age of Aquarius. It's definitely more gritty and grounded then AoA; there are no parallel dimensions. It's a story about a group of soldiers and the psychology of war. You can decide for yourself whether you like it or not.
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No other campaign even came close to creating the harsh realities of war in a FreeSpace setting as War in Heaven did (or will). Seriously, it's immersive, it's gritty and has some absolutely amazing moments.
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Oh and that review definitely predates the Director's Cut. By a year in fact. He probably would've been more into it with voice work.
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Don't misunderstand me: I'm not criticizing BP as a whole, I simply don't agree with you on a couple of things that involve the mysticism featured in AoA. I don't understand why you're indirectly claiming that great campaigns must have mysticism in them to have success; that's one of the most bogus assumptions I've ever read.
That said, let's not venture into one-way pointless discussions about the subject. I kind of expect what they'll lead to, so we'd rather stop here. One more thing, though:
What we did in War in Heaven is very different from Age of Aquarius. It's definitely more gritty and grounded then AoA; there are no parallel dimensions. It's a story about a group of soldiers and the psychology of war. You can decide for yourself whether you like it or not.
That's the salient point. Glad you made what, IMHO, is the right decision.
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Don't misunderstand me: I'm not criticizing BP as a whole, I simply don't agree with you on a couple of things that involve the mysticism featured in AoA. I don't understand why you're indirectly claiming that great campaigns must have mysticism in them to have success; that's one of the most bogus assumptions I've ever read.
I never said that. I don't know where you got that ridiculous idea. Windmills was an excellent campaign and there was nothing remotely mystical in it. Silent Threat Reborn was fantastic.
And, again - there is no mysticism in AoA.
Read the techroom.
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Mobius, you didn't like several things in AoA.
And that's perfectly okay, by the entire team.
That said, let's not venture into one-way pointless discussions about the subject. I kind of expect what they'll lead to, so we'd rather stop here.
No-one's viewpoint/interpretation/opinion is going to change here, even with civil discussion. And so I support that statement of yours, Mobius.
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Oh, yeah forgot about Windmills... That was awesome. It had a strong message and managed to sway my opinion on just how difficult Command's job was.
Hey, I have an idea. From now on instead of masturbatory meta-discussions, we have to make campaigns to argue our points!
Genius, Snail. Genius.
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No other campaign even came close to creating the harsh realities of war in a FreeSpace setting as War in Heaven did (or will). Seriously, it's immersive, it's gritty and has some absolutely amazing moments.
Windmills aside, I have to argue this point based on what I remember from my own time testing. Any viewpoint inside the UEF's military is probably not reflective of the reality of war from the standpoint of someone in a more...professional organization.
They are, after all, more gifted amateurs than a skilled force. :P
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Things have changed very much from when you were testing the campaign.
Not sure if it matches your standards of professional military conduct now, but whatever.
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Professional soldiering at work with my guys and enjoying a pew-pew-pew fest on my PC are two different kettles of fish. :)
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Things have changed very much from when you were testing the campaign.
Not sure if it matches your standards of professional military conduct now, but whatever.
Unless you guys completely threw out and rebuilt the main character...
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They are, after all, more gifted amateurs than a skilled force.
Just because they didn't participate in any large scale war doesn't make them amateurs. Especially the Marsian fleet comes across quite militaristic and disciplined in the proses and that one mission video.
Considering that they had the asteroid belt in their juristiction it wouldn't surprise me if they saw quite some action against pirates. Not to mention that terrorist group (Gaian something....) who strongly oppose Mars' terraforming.
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His point is more that we haven't written our main character to military standards. She behaves much more human than what NGTM-1R (probably) wants.
And yes, the UEF operates on a less restrictive discipline than a "true" military force. They are more akin to a police force than a "proper" military (at least, that's what they were prior to the outbreak of hostilities).
Regarding the differences between the fleets, there's a marked difference between them, with them getting more militaristic the farther out you go.
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No other campaign even came close to creating the harsh realities of war in a FreeSpace setting as War in Heaven did (or will). Seriously, it's immersive, it's gritty and has some absolutely amazing moments.
Windmills aside, I have to argue this point based on what I remember from my own time testing. Any viewpoint inside the UEF's military is probably not reflective of the reality of war from the standpoint of someone in a more...professional organization.
What you'll see of the Federation navy as an organization will likely be up to FreeSpace's standards of military discipline. I can't speak for individual characters.
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Well, obviously certain characters would be more...casual, others more strict.
That's pretty much how it is in real life, no?
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Indeed.
I doubt it'll be up to NGTM-1R's standards - especially as we recently took a hacksaw to the amount of brevity code in use - but while many characters will speak plainly (mostly pilot) you'll also hear a lot of clipped tactical chatter.
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I've seen a screenshot of two Fed frigs attacking honourable Tev civil shipping. Is it a pure vanity/glory shot or is there Fed piracy or vice versa?
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There are no civilian GTVA vessels in Sol.
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Ok. A logistical support convoy then. I just consider non-aggressors civil.
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Disrupting the enemy logistics train is a legitimate tactic. After all, the GTVA does the same as well (albeit their task is a lot harder due to the UEF infrastructure being much harder to kill).
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I take it the player will be involved, as a Freespace saga without at least one convoy raid just isn't Freespace. :)
How AOA managed to skip it i'll never figure out.
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What, didn't you notice the fact that AoA was one big convoy raid, with you on the defensive most of the time?
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What you'll see of the Federation navy as an organization will likely be up to FreeSpace's standards of military discipline. I can't speak for individual characters.
Yeah, I agree.
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His point is more that we haven't written our main character to military standards. She behaves much more human than what NGTM-1R (probably) wants.
I find, however, that the protagonist's more human complex is what makes her so unique, since she is, by all accounts, a rookie pilot thrust into a position of great importance. I mean, if everyone in the UEF was high and dry, I think I'd go "meh".
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I doubt it'll be up to NGTM-1R's standards
You've clearly forgotten my time testing afterall. :P
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I doubt it'll be up to NGTM-1R's standards
You've clearly forgotten my time testing afterall. :P
i just never know what to say to make you happy :(
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So, WiH speculation...
From some tech info I read somewhere (possibly Intel on the Vishnans?) the GTVA seems to have this notion that all of the intelligence we have on the Vishnans is inherently unreliable. They did conclude (speculate?) that the trip-through-another-universe was probably intended to make the invasion force mentally unable to carry out its original mission... so uh...
What business does the GTVA have second-guessing an entity capable of sending its fleets to an alternate universe? Since when do you come up with contingency plans to deal with divine intervention?
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It's the sort of thing you come up with when faced with an enemy with unknown, but superior capabilities.
And while the assumption can be made that the 14th's excursion was caused by the Vishnans, the probability that it was a fluke event caused by the Orestes' jump drive can not be discounted.
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What business does the GTVA have second-guessing an entity capable of sending its fleets to an alternate universe? Since when do you come up with contingency plans to deal with divine intervention?
Godlike intelligence does not necessarily follow from godlike power.
Nor does it necessarily follow that beings with both actually have your best interests in mind.
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Well they might not have our best interests in mind, but the fact they communicated with us suggests they intend for us to listen.
Of course I suppose they could just be trying to assess how suggestible we are... the Vishnans and Shivans might be in cahoots, or might both be pawns of some still greater power... Or the Vishnans could just be some cleverly disguised Shivans with a plot to expose our vulnerabilities by pretending to be allies. But I'ma stick with things being what they look like.
If an inter-dimensional prankster holds a death-ray to my head and demands I make peace with my neighbors, I don't try to psychoanalyze them, and I certainly don't do the opposite of what I'm told.
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Cross the streams!
Complete protonic reversal means we win.
I hope the first mission isn't a trainer.
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What business does the GTVA have second-guessing an entity capable of sending its fleets to an alternate universe? Since when do you come up with contingency plans to deal with divine intervention?
Always.
Contingencies are always, always, a must. And the lack of them is inexcusable if you've had the time to prepare them. And if it is capable of sending our fleets to an alternate universe, then that's a stellar reason right there to start drawing up contingency plans for some kind of alien invasion or mass attempted deportation of fleets to another universe. Why did they send our fleet to an alternate universe?
Was it trying to strike us a blow? If so, when will they attack, and if they do, how will they do it, and how will we deal with it?
But basically, point is, if you know something, however little it is, you have to do something with that information. Here the GTVA knows some entity is playing funny buggers with their ships. So it's in the Alliance's best interest to prepare for that eventuality. Perhaps the GTVA has decided that ships that transit a subspace node and don't come out the other side soon enough is a good enough reason to suspend all subspace operations until such time it's been establish the Vishnans aren't trying to deport the GTVA to another universe en-masse? :P
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I hope the first mission isn't a trainer.
First mission of what?
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I hope the first mission isn't a trainer.
First mission of what?
War In Heaven, I'm guessing he doesn't want it to be a training mission.
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There are no training missions in WiH.
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There are no training missions in WiH.
What about Race?
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From what I've read. . . . Just Human ;)
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My first thought was "Temple - Matthew Reilly". :D
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There are no training missions in WiH.
What about Race?
Doesn't _really_ count IMHO, as its purely optional and not in any way linked to in the campaign.
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Oh ****, anyone reckon we're going to attack the Orestes/Temeraire during the plot? I don't think I can bring myself to attack either of them D:
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What were the ~4 ships that defected outright? There were a couple corvettes and cruisers, right?
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The Labouchere, Solace and Duke all jumped over to the UEF. Though given that there were thousands of people on those ships I doubt it was an easy or unanimous process.
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Does the GTVA know their location?
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They may know about the Labouchere and Duke, but the Solace is well-hidden.
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Why go through all the trouble of hiding a long-range logistics ship if you're in your home system?
Well, I guess they're not hiding it because they intend to use it (for general purposes at least), more like the other way around.
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Because Anemois are, in essence, floating military-industrial complexes. They are incredibly valuable and capable assets, and unlike the Corvettes and Cruisers, can be operated easily by UEF personnel.
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Oh, so they do more than just carry a lot of stuff :P
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They're enormous, basically mobile dockyards and logistics platforms.
The Duke and Labouchere were probably taken out of service and maybe even disassembled (to one degree or another.)
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Remember, Droid, that Anemoi vessels are designed to serve as mobile installations. They can house enough supplies and equipment to sustain an entire fleet for several months. This is how the Temeraire was able to get itself repaired completely within the space of two short missions, or a few days + 15 minutes at best.
It is also worth noting, however, that the 14th fleet's misadventure to Sol, despite lasting only a couple of weeks, was able to severely drain the two logistics vessels that tagged along. Considering that the entire fleet was almost completely sustained by these two ships alone, against an entire Shivan armada led by the biggest monstrosity that the Shivans have shown (off), this is a testament to just how much (hyper)space there is in those vessels. At the same time, it also highlights the fact that the Anemoi is not a replacement for stationary installations.
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I speculate that this
Its themes are about the psychology of war and the ambiguity of morality.
will be awesome and we'll get to do some wonderfully horrible things. But it's okay right? We had to do it, right right?
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As long as it's US. (GTVA) doing stuff to them. (Fed Scum).
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There is no War In Heaven. It's all an elaborate prank on the community.
Why?
Goob hates us all.
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There is no War In Heaven. It's all an elaborate prank on the community.
Why?
Goob hates us all.
Don't even joke :beamz:
:p
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*notices the highlight for 3.6.12 release*
*turns head over this thread in anticipation*
;7
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Still need 3.6.12 mediavps to be released first :)
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Take your time, I am floating in a pool of patience. Yes, really! :nod:
... well, but maybe that's just because I'll be leaving for a short vacation soon and only returning on Sunday. :lol:
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As long as it's US. (GTVA) doing stuff to them. (Fed Scum).
Best comment ive heard in a long time.
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As long as it's US. (GTVA) doing stuff to them. (Fed Scum).
Dilmah shares a similar viewpoint.
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I dunno, I guess the protagonist in WiH really polarised me. We're alike, but at the same time, oh so different...
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From The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates: Do unto others.
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As long as it's US. (GTVA) doing stuff to them. (Fed Scum).
Dilmah shares a similar viewpoint.
I share the same viewpoint.
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From The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates: Do unto others.
I've been reading that book for a couple of weeks now, very interesting indeed.
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If you are a whale, start holding your breath now.
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It's coming!
But I'll have to wait untill I can download the mvps :(
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If you are a whale, start holding your breath now.
If you're not a whale, do it anyways. We figure if you actually follow that instruction, you wouldn't have liked WiH anyways.
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If you're not a whale, do it anyways. We figure if you actually follow that instruction, you wouldn't have liked WiH anyways.
I know whales like WiH!
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I know whales like WiH!
Dunno man, that whole planet-raping Buntu bit played well with the whales. :(
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I know whales like WiH!
Dunno man, that whole planet-raping Buntu bit played well with the whales. :(
WHALE COMETS
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Just as long as the release doesn't happen until after I get my new joystick later today.....
But if I could hold my breath for several hours, I would ;7
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If you're still holding your breath, don't (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70745.0).
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The time for speculation is over.
The time for action is now.