Author Topic: RELEASE - Relentless  (Read 31042 times)

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Offline Deka1184

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Also, you're ignoring the nice things I said about you.  :(

-clip-

I'll see as I progress, but you should take time to polish up your early missions. Good first impression!

What, that I stuck thru with a mod and released it? Yes, I can operate FRED at a basic level and post threads on HLP, thank you.

Yes, just PLAY the damn thing and don't comment again till you're done, please. The quality of the first few missions are not indicative of the quality of the rest of the mod, as everyone who hasnt played the rest of the mod likes to assume.

Um, I hate to sound like a jerk, but that's really more the realm of people who play and review the mission to say.  Mission designers are inherently biased (either for or against) missions they themselves create. :nervous:

I challenge you to give me one artistic or technical criticism of that mission. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I know, but one can also easily get a sense of when something is going to be well received or not.  Some missions cater to certain styles, but I think First Strike really has a lot to offer for everyone. mmk?

 

Offline Vrets

  • 27
Why isn't this locked?

I'm sure that the technical critiques were well-founded; however, the author has no plans to continue development. At this point, people are just feeding off Deka1184. Is HLP so starved for drama?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 08:52:45 pm by Vrets »

 

Offline High Max

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It already looks like I'm not getting a highlight so I don't see why you need to bash my campaign further when it hasn't even ****ing crashed yet. Here is four ****ing pages and not a single post about the mod itself, just a bunch of technical bull****. I dont want to see another ****ing comment related to technical ANYTHING, if I do, I'm out of here. I'm done dealing with this ****, so you're just going to have to blow it out your ass.
High Max's comments could be construed as trolling... or he could have been trying to defuse the situation. I prefer to assume that people have good intentions. Reviewing High Max's other posts in this thread, he has generally been supportive and sympathetic, which also suggests the latter possibility.
I was not trying to be mean, just honest.

@The E: I was not oblivious, I said 'if he knew that there were bugs'. I didn't mean he knew. Maybe I worded that wrong.


@Deka: I also said I would try this campaign again because I want to play it.

Edit to add this:

Quote
I don't care if high max was trolling or not, his statements were unwarranted, inappropriate, and inflammatory and thats the bottom line.

And yours were not? Seriously.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 08:58:29 pm by High Max »
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Offline Deka1184

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I've already defended my statements and proved that they were warranted, appropriate, and pertinent to general b's comment about how some moderator should come around and declare my mod a beta so no one plays it. This discussion is over.

 

Offline achtung

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Let's all calm down now, this thread shouldn't need to be closed over silly squabbles.
FreeSpaceMods.net | FatHax | ??????
In the wise words of Charles de Gaulle, "China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese."

Formerly known as Swantz

 

Offline Spoon

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Quote
Even some of the early missions, "First Stike", for example, I contend to be flawless work.
I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
It makes for a great show really, just keep your hands off the controls and watch glorious beams. You only have to keep yourself entertained for 9 minutes before you can press Alt+J and read a debrief of 3 lines.

Actually, I forgot to mention. There is a pause of about 2 minutes inbetween waves. So there is only 7 minutes of actual beam content. I got less then I paid for!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 09:50:39 pm by Spoon »
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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  • FRED needs lambdas!
I've been playing through the campaign with the bugfixes provided by The_E and -Norbert-, so I can get the plot up to the First Strike mission. I've noticed some very amateurish and some very original/creative aspects of mission design, and overall it's a more solid campaign than some have made it out to be. The lack of directives is bugging me, and I'll note that in my C&C of First Strike.

Anyway, I've reached the mission now, and I'll be using this post to comment on it (the good as well as the bad).

[EDIT]: Going by Spoon's reply, I may find it necessary to be a bit harsh.

 

Offline Deka1184

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  • Formerly known as KappaWing
Well you can make a choice to sit back and watch the mission but you can also make the choice to participate. Sure, its downright cinematic on "very easy", but on "medium" or "hard" you better get your ass in the battle or the friendly destroyers are going down.  :)

 

Offline Spoon

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Well you can make a choice to sit back and watch the mission but you can also make the choice to participate. Sure, its downright cinematic on "very easy", but on "medium" or "hard" you better get your ass in the battle or the friendly destroyers are going down.  :)
Really? Well I guess I wasn't playing on medium then

Oh wait
I did!

Well color me confused.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Quanto

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Well you can make a choice to sit back and watch the mission but you can also make the choice to participate. Sure, its downright cinematic on "very easy", but on "medium" or "hard" you better get your ass in the battle or the friendly destroyers are going down.  :)
Really? Well I guess I wasn't playing on medium then

Oh wait
I did!

Well color me confused.
Maybe mission objectives would be helpful?
>_>
<_<
00:41:58 <DarthGeek>: I might do it, I need to build a reputation of someone who doesn't suffer fools
(DarthGeek on: "Relentless")

 

Offline Spoon

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Here's a walkthrough for the campaign for the people that are having trouble completing it:
From Mission 1 and onward: Alt+J, press accept
repeat.

With this guide, even Quanto could do it!
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Deka1184

  • 26
  • Formerly known as KappaWing
Incase it isn't obvious to you, the implied objective is to shoot red stuff until it explodes.

That said, it appears there are no formal objectives for that mission, which is somewhat disturbing because i remember going around to every mission and ensuring there was at least 1 objective so all the music would play at the right times.

Here's a walkthrough for the campaign for the people that are having trouble completing it:
From Mission 1 and onward: Alt+J, press accept
repeat.

With this guide, even Quanto could do it!

Troll detected. Honestly, mission fails are pretty obvious due to the recommendation text giving a valid recommendation. If you want to skip ahead anyway thats your choice.

Spoiler:
except for the mission where the lucifer rams the vasudan awacs ship, which is an unfortunate occurrence that i didn't run into during at least 50 playtests, but now i see how it is possible if the timing on some player-caused events is just right

Unfortunately I'm not a very detail oriented person, hell I've failed calculus 4 times even though I know the concepts cold, just because I make procedural errors on everything. These little blips are what happens when I come to you guys and don't get any quality beta testers, but plenty of jeering when I actually release the mod, which is a strange paradox.

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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  • FRED needs lambdas!
Spoiler:
Act I: The Command Briefing
First of all, you have the Vice Admiral "on trail[sic] for destruction of property and loss of life", along with a mention of "insubordination". It would seem to me that if an admiral is being charged with insubordination, he would not be still commanding his squadron. I noticed something mentioning this earlier on, so I won't judge it too harshly- I haven't played any of the campaign except the missions leading up to First Strike.

In the very first part of stage 1, you recap part of what happened in the previous mission (which, btw, I though was put together well). I'm not sure why this was done, but it seems to me to be unnecessary.

There are numerous minor spelling and grammar mistakes, along with some wordy or confusing syntax. A common mistake (and an understandable one), so I'll gloss over this part.

Overall, the command brief is solidly put together with just a few nitpicks. 9/10.

Act II: The Briefing
The two stages have the exact same viewpoint, which is not lined up with the grid. This is a minor problem, but a well-placed viewpoint- whether lined up with the grid or not- can add immersion to a briefing.

I like the comment about Lennes that Roy makes. It's kept professional, like a briefing, but personal enough to give some life to the characters. It could have been worded a bit better, but either way it adds to the immersion. 9.5/10.

Act III: The Loadout
I do like that Alpha 1 can choose either a fighter or bomber role for the mission. That also implies that the wingmen don't have default orders, so I'm going to have to order them around- which is good. If Alpha 1 is leading a squadron, they should be waiting for his orders.

You have 5 of each fighter type available. To me, this screams "I HAVEN'T EDITED THE DEFAULT LOADOUTS". There should be 4 or 8 of each fighter available (12 if you want a surplus of some). Also, the choices available are a bit weird- Why would anyone take a Pegasus to a blockade? Why would anyone use, say, a Myrmidon when an Erinyes is available?

You have 100 Akhetons available for weapons and 500 Tempests, which means that you re-allowed these in the editor, then forgot to set the value (or thought the value was alright). 100 Akhetons is, needless to say, too many, and 500 Tempests is too few (500 Tempests will not fill even a single Herc 2). I'm only taking off a point for the Tempests, since it affects gameplay.

I'll make a note here about weapon compatibility: you've expanded the weapon compatibility of several fighters, which IMO decreases the variety in the fighters available. Weapon compatibility is as crucial an aspect of a ship as speed or hitpoints- many times I've taken a Herc 2 or a Perseus for a space superiority role, since the Myrmidon cannot normally use Harpoons. By removing these limitations, you've made choosing a fighter less interesting and less crucial to strategy.

You have both variants of the Cyclops available. How many Cyclops boms are there in FS2? Uno. They aren't both supposed to be available in the same mission, especially since the player cannot tell them apart.

I took a Herc 2 loaded up with Hornets and Harpoons to fly intercept. I'll probably need the cavernous missile bays for an extended engagement.

All in all, there are several problems with an otherwise passable loadout. 8/10.

Act IV: The Mission
The first thing I see is the Aquitaine sending a message... starting with "Petrarch here." First of all, Petrarch wouldn't be sending a transmission directly- he'd be with some tactical advisers planning for the mission. Also, he doesn't seem like the type to say "<name> here" - he's a bit more verbose than that.

The Aquitaine and Kiev are... disabled? Why is that? As far as I was aware, they were taking up formation to broadside anything that came through the node (which can be done by not giving them orders and beam-free-all'ing them, btw).

Unfortunately, you have a condition that we call "BoE syndrome". First of all... BEAMS BEAMS BEAMS! Being more of a junkie for more traditional warfare, I kind of prefer to see bombs, missiles and flak going everywhere. Second of all...

I've started engaging fighters, and now you've started to creep in to one of the worst aspects of BoE syndrome there is- My job as an interceptor is superfluous. So far, I have 5 kills, and I don't think any of them except one Seraphim have contributed to the mission. Sure, there's a lot to do, but my squadron and the capships' beams are doing it for me. If I don't kill a Seraphim or take out a beam turret, I can be assured that my wing will kill the fighter or that the cruiser will be dead before it can do much damage anyway.

The Vasudan cruisers arrive. I get killed by beamspam. The Vasudan cruisers arrive. I get killed by beamspam. The Vasudan cruisers arrive. I get killed by beamspam. I actually played this part of the mission through 4 times before deciding to retreat entirely from the engagement so I couldn't be fired at by the beams... and therein lies the main problem with the mission. I can do that, and it won't have any effect on the outcome. Basically what I'm playing is a glorified cinematic, where my fighter has nothing whatsoever to do with the battle. Even when the destroyer arrives, I can sit quietly at my starting position and watch the fireworks.

After the destroyer was pwned by the inordinate beam firepower, Command immediately tells me to warp out. Like they know nothing else is coming through. You know what I like to imagine happens after a mission like that? That the enemy force arrives with several juggernaughts and takes the entire system by force. It could happen.

At the moment, I have FS running in a window behind Firefox. My fighter is warping out. I have one kill- an Astaroth which decided to attack me. We sustained minimal casualties- I don't even think we lost a cruiser. The Demon didn't get a chance to fire its beams, since it took an odd turn to the left and then got disabled.

Overall, it was an alright cutscene, even though the camera didn't move much. 5/10.

Act V: The Debriefing
There isn't much to say here, because even after a long engagement involving a Shivan destroyer, you apparently didn't think there was much to say. Which is true in a way, the briefing covered it all- the mission went entirely according to plan.

Remember what I said about command briefings and recapping what's happened? The debriefing is an excellent place to do that. You'd need to disguise it or mask it so it sounds realistic, but it can (easily) be done.

Overall, there's not much, and what's there is somewhat lacking. 7/10.

Overall score: 7.7/10

[EDIT]: Haven't read some of the most recent replies. Will read and respond.

[EDIT2]: Spoon brought up the point that you can simply jump out and you can still pass, even getting the same debriefing (for this mission anyway). Grade for the mission dropped from 5 to 3.5, overall from 7.7 to 7.4. (I really should have weighted the mission more).

Also,
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 10:58:48 pm by Shivan Hunter »

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
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I've already defended my statements and proved that they were warranted, appropriate, and pertinent to general b's comment about how some moderator should come around and declare my mod a beta so no one plays it. This discussion is over.

Whoa, you missed the point entirely: the idea was to mark it as a beta so people would go easy on it and you'd get more helpful remarks. If I hadn't resigned my global mod-dom I'd have done it myself.

I was trying to help.

Anyway, I'll get back when I've got more to say. Looking forward to the rest of the campaign.  :)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 11:19:26 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline AndrewofDoom

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I'm going to be blunt, you're campaign is simply rage fuel. RAAAAAGGGEEE FUEL. >=(

I'm sorry, this campaign gets worse as you move along, with more and more canon defilement. Into the Void III is totally random and canon defilement to the max. Another Colossus? How what?! The real lasts level? You just blow up.

GRAAAHHH.

EDIT: Explain yourself. This is the final mission "Into The Void IV"
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 11:32:27 pm by AndrewofDoom »
My Efforts:
SF Knight

20:08:19   AndrewofDoom: Though I find it mildly disturbing that a loli is giggling to mass destruction.
20:10:01   Spoon: I find it mildly arrousing
20:10:07   AndrewofDoom: Woah
20:10:15   Spoon: sound like my kind of loli
20:10:21   Spoon: and im not even a lolicon

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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  • FRED needs lambdas!
Your actions jeopardized the lives of those involved in this mission and the GTVA's objectives in this theatre. Desertion is grounds for a court martial, and you are confined to quarters pending your preliminary hearing. Until a military court decides otherwise, you are hereby stripped of your wings and all privileges bestowed upon you as an officer of the Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance.



That's from the last mission. Yes, those are the only two events.

One of them doesn't even fire. No, time-elapsed doesn't work after the player has died.

Srsly, wtf.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 11:36:42 pm by Shivan Hunter »

 

Offline High Max

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I want to play this but I worry after seeing all this. What if I get stuck from errors and show stoppers? Will I be able to complete the campaign and enjoy it without getting angry from serious errors? How is it possble not to spot any of these errors when it was being developed? I'm not trying to sound bothersome, but seriously. I am saying what concerns me. Should I wait for awhile before giving this a shot?
;-)   #.#   *_*   ^^   ^-^   ^_^

 

Offline General Battuta

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The campaign should be playable as is after The_E's patch, so go for it, make up your own mind.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 11:52:20 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Axem

  • 211
I salute you sir on this grand campaign.

Never before did I think that anyone could, not only out do me, but absolutely destroy whatever legacy my work could ever have on the history in this community. I cannot hope to ever rise to your level, good sir. I feel I must take a new direction in life, away from FreeSpace...

Your last mission is truly a work of art, I would have- no could not have thought of such an outstanding display of SEXP work and the innate knowledge of FRED and FreeSpace.

I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 12:01:05 am by Axem »

 

Offline AndrewofDoom

  • In A.D. 2366 war was beginning
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The campaign should be playable as is after The_E's patch, so go for it, make up your own mind.

...

*pimpslaps Battuta*

WHY MUST YOU FOOL THE INNOCENTS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN POISONED?! Gah!
My Efforts:
SF Knight

20:08:19   AndrewofDoom: Though I find it mildly disturbing that a loli is giggling to mass destruction.
20:10:01   Spoon: I find it mildly arrousing
20:10:07   AndrewofDoom: Woah
20:10:15   Spoon: sound like my kind of loli
20:10:21   Spoon: and im not even a lolicon