[Prophet]

I see the TBP members are already shaking their heads in despair. This model goes in to the same series with the satellite request. It's small, simple, its use is obvious, and it is quite necessary.

I'm talking about some sort of scaffolding. The kind you see in construction sites. In Crusade there was a scene where the Excalibur was wisiting B5. And it was docked with a Asimov liner, and there was some sort of scaffolding/skybridge connecting them.

What I'm thinking is a about a 300-500 meters long and about 20-30 meters wide "tube" that looks pretty much like certain sections in the explorer. It could use the same kind of texture.
It could be positioned between parked ships so that they look like they are docked (like Omega could be docked with something with this).
It could be used to build raider "scrap stations" from old ship hulls. The scaffolding could be used to bring some "feel" of a jury rigged station.
And it could be used to simulate ships under construction/repair. Adding few scaffolds around a part of a warship makes it look like the ship is damaged and there are scaffolds and other crap there the engineers need to patch up the ship.
Or surround and a part of a jump gate with it and throw in a Explorer and you got yourself a convincing gate construction site!

I used to do this in Freespace with the cargo containers. It looks better than it sounds. Especially when the containers were exploding during combat. But because there isn't so much variety in containers in TBP the result are not very convincing. So I thought why wouldn't we want a model that is really built for the task?

Opinions? And remember to specify why you think this is a bad idea.

[Col. Fishguts]

That's a good idea actually. If Mav strolls by, he'll probably do it within 15 minutes

[I_E_Maverick]

wouldnt be much of a problem i think. though i would need a little sketch to make everything clear. do a sketch and you get your model in half an hour

[Prophet]

You need a sketch?!

Okay here's something I did in half an hour.



It's nothing but a box really, nothing high poly. But with textures to make it look like its hollow. Something like what the Explorer has between the habitable areas. The black/red smudge in the middle is supposed to a walkway(tube) of some sort that could show up in the texture. So if it's used as a docking connection there is something besides ladders people can use to move back and forth. You're the model wiz so I am unfamiliar with your magic
It might be useful to give it a few docking points. In the ends and in the middle, so that worker bees and maintenance furys can move it around and surround the Thirdspace gate with these.

You could add some pipes in the surface, and add lights or glowmaps on it. And just a thought but a popcorn explosion (small or no expl.ani with lots of popcorn) without debris would look good with this (I don't know how it's done, but I've seen those before). If it holds fuel and oxygen it would just blow in to tiny glowing bits that would fade off.

That should give you an idea what I was thinking about. But if someone has something to add, then please do.

[I_E_Maverick]

a few minutes of work, did you have something like this in mind?

[Trivial Psychic]

I agree that something like this would be rather useful.  I would suggest that we not simply use just a single pole model and use docking to arrange them as we wish.  Something like that would eat up the number of ships in mission limit.  I would suggest that we have perhaps a long pole to be used as a connection part, but the bulk of any complexe would be say a curved gridwork.  Say, 4 parallel poles, each connected along the ark of 3 or 4 parallel curving poles, 90 degrees offset to the first.  Connecting them together would create conical sections that can be used for the afore-mentioned contruction and maintenance trusses.  I can whip up a quick concept sketch if this is a little confusing.

Oh, Maverick, there is a way to make your demo look even cooler, though it would take more polies.  Actualy model the beams and any transort tubes within, and apply an alpha-ed texture so that you can see through the blank spaces.  Perhaps less resource-friendly, but certainly more visually impressive. 

[Prophet]

a few minutes of work, did you have something like this in mind?

Pretty much. But what are its dimensions? I think it could be a little thicker... Other than that, I'm happy. What do others think?

@ Triv
I think I know what you are talking about. And is a good idea, but its uses would be more limited than that tube thing. Ofcourse we could always turn FRED in to a GalCiv2 kind of ship constructor utility.

[-Norbert-]

I think the green isn't such a good idea. If you'd make it only in greys it is neutral enough to use it with every race and ship.
Could you place some ship next to it, for size comparison?

[Col. Fishguts]

I think the green part is supposed to be transparent, no ?

How is transparency in DXT5 DDS files handled by the engine these days ? Is everything behind the transparent part invisible, or can other parts of the model be seens through it ?

[I_E_Maverick]

yes, green is supposed to be transparent, i think somebody told me that green parts in textures would get transparent in freespace.
maybe somebody has to explain me how transparent parts are exactly working in fs2.

@triv: i didnt get what you mean, i think a sketch would be good

[IPAndrews]

The green parts will be left as background but the polygon as a whole which contained the green texture will still obscure other polygons behind it. To be honest you might be better off doing the superstructure work as geometry for the highest LOD and dropping to green textures for the lower ones.

[Col. Fishguts]

Does DXT5 with true alpha channel also obscure polygons behind it ?

[Trivial Psychic]

yes, green is supposed to be transparent, i think somebody told me that green parts in textures would get transparent in freespace.
maybe somebody has to explain me how transparent parts are exactly working in fs2.

The Green=transparent thing only works with PCX textures, the way it was with FS's original format.  For both TGA and DDS (DTX5), its the alpha channel that is tranparent for the base texture.  As for how to edit the Alpha channel, that's out of my experience.

@triv: i didnt get what you mean, i think a sketch would be good

I'll whip up one tonight.

[Edit]



OK.  In the left TOP VIEW image, each of those dark lines represents one of these tube things.  In the BACK/FRONT VIEW, the circles are the long tubes running up-down in the left image, and the curved segments in the right image are the lateral tubes in the left image.  This is just an example of how a few pre-arrenged tube segments can be arranged and inserted as completed models, reducing both the number of objects in-mission and the workload of the FREDder.  A bunch of dockpoints would be arranged on this example, on the ends of all tubes so they can be joined to gether in series, or some "floating dock points" away from the actual surface, so they can be docked to ships existing dockpoints without appearing to be physically in contact with it.

[Prophet]

Okay I was wrong earlier. I didn't know what you were talking about... Still, it could only be of limited use. A flat grid would be more useful. But even then I'm not sure if it is worth really making. You can get to the same result by positioning 3-4 tubes, and maybe throwing in a cargo container or something.

[aipz]

I think that both models would be extremely useful for creating construction sites or even shipyards...

All you would need to do is to put the 2 large curved structures and a starbase in a close vincinity... and voilla a shipyard...
It would definetly make an interesting  target/sight and make the missions more varied!

The  connector models put together in a certain combination could easily, like Prophet said, simulate docked together ships or repairs done at a starbase.

Thanks to those two models we could also save some space for other models that will be part of TBP in the future...

Tha models have to have a neutral look and be as generic as possible...

What do you think about it?

[rcrph]

I think that anytime that anyone can contribute anything to the Project is a great thing.  I agree that the tube construction is a great idea and adds flexibility to mission design when using small sections. I can't imagine trying to script a larger construction such as a shipyard with fred, but I'm sure someone is clever enough to do it.

[I_E_Maverick]

just to say it, i wanted to do some shipyards anyway, so if all people just wanted to use those tubes as shipyards they wont be that necessary.