[chief1983]

I kind of like the second option.  It's probably easier than a pof exporter.

[Kazan]

I kind of like the second option.  It's probably easier than a pof exporter.

writing new file support for PCS2 is a lot easier than PCS1

PCS2 only does POF conversion in one place: when saving to POF - it's internal format is PMF (Which is easy to work with and simple) unlike PCS1 which internally used POF.


so either way he'd be doing a conversion between .3ds data structures and PMF ones.

[Raven2001]

Ok, heres the question of the day:

Why use .3ds as the means to "communicate" between Max and PCS? 3ds is a bad format nowadays (normal\smooth groups\UV problems)

Why not use .obj? Its more stable, more common (meaning that something like this in PCS allows for Maya, Blender, etc users to import their models without recurring to another software)?

I may have said an horrid blasphemy (lemme know if I did), but seems to me the better option

[Kazan]

afaik .obj doesn't support hierarchy

bob is apparently going to add .obj support for PCS2.1

styxx could just make a .pmf exporter plugin - it supports everything needed as it is PCS2's internal format

[Raven2001]

afaik .obj doesn't support hierarchy

bob is apparently going to add .obj support for PCS2.1

I think it does, im not sure though.

Ive never used PCS2 ( only done POF work twice with the max exporter, and things didnt go so well), but Im under the impression that you can do all the hierarchy job in PCS2, correct?
If so, assuming .obj doesnt have hierarchy, with an .obj importer we could jsut import the models and then work all the POF details in PCS. Like I said, dont know how PCS works on that field so once again I could be saying a load of crap

However, the point remains: 3ds is a very bad cross-software format, and .obj is one of the best if not the best. Also, there seems to be appearing more and more Max users (and Ive spotted a Maya user around as well), so we really need something like this.

[Kazan]

PCS2 can edit just about anything... in later versions it will even be able to do some minor geometry editing for your tweaking needs

[Raven2001]

In that case I believe that an obj importer would be the best option, given PCS2 friendly interface. And that way you hav less risk of having mesh\UV\smooth group errors, while at the same time supporting a bigger number of apps

[chief1983]

Don't forget the growing number of Blender users.  If VA ever finishes the Blender tuts he's been working on that number could grow even more as it becomes easier to do FS modeling in Blender.

[chief1983]

Just found this while looking around as well, from the OBJ exporter for Sketchup notes:

Support for object hierarchy. The OBJ output now supports a flat set membership
hierarchy, meaning that the format understands which objects belong to any set.
It is important to note that it does not support a tree hierarchy meaning it doesn't
know if one particular set is actually a component part of another set. This
limitation is a limitation of the OBJ format itself.

Full text at http://download.sketchup.com/downloads/downloads/plugins/ObjReadMe.pdf

[Kazan]

tree is what is needed for FS2 object hierarchy

[chief1983]

Yup, that's what I figured it meant.  Just thought I'd post it to clear it up for anyone else who wasn't sure yet.

[Nuke]

while its good to have a full function pof editor for tweaking pofs, i like to do as little post conversion tweaking as possible. the max converter is really good at streamlining workflow.

the other thing that the max converter does really well is smoothing. not that it will be relevant as normal mapping gets adopted, assuming you use the two model technique. on the other hand you can get away with using 2d methods to generate normal maps if your smoothing is perfect and your model has a relatively high polycount.

the pmf exporter sounds like the best idea, so long as it can do everything the max exporter can do, using the same conventions for model setup that were used in the exporter. might want to work out some really good specs on the format, so exporters for various modeling programs may be written. every modeling program has some form of scripting support. good specs would mean people who prefer program x or program y, all have the option of creating an exporter to get the models into pmf.

id be willing to try other formats, but the bottom line is max is now my modeling program of choice. using yet another converter to go from max to cob will just shred up your model more than the max converter would (as would truespace's crappy 3ds import). truespace isnt exactly the best program for cleaning up bad models. truespace isnt even suited to hierarchy setup, one just has to use the max schematic view to realize how crappy truespace's heirarchy tools are. i can do with max's hierarchy tools in minutes that which would take hours to do in truespace.

[Kazan]

here's your specs http://alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/alliance/pcs2/pcs_file.h?revision=1.41&view=markup

[chief1983]

Is there anything for someone who doesn't speak code?  I mean, any exporter/importer for that format might not have to be written in C.  Having a written definition of the format would really help a lot of people better understand it I think.  Hopefully that's in the works for some point down the line?

[Nuke]

at least its in c++. reading freespace's code is an order of magnitude more difficult. still im more interested in the data structure, not the way that structure is read and stored. the most complicated file handeling code ive written is by compairison very suckey, it parses a model format that looks like this:

Code: [Select]

vertdefs
-0.00000 15.00000 0.00000
16.00000 -0.50000 32.50000
-16.00000 -0.50000 32.50000
16.00000 -15.00000 -32.50000
-16.00000 -15.00000 -32.50000
-44.00000 10.00000 -32.50000
-60.00000 -3.00000 -13.00000
-65.00000 -3.00000 -32.50000
44.00000 10.00000 -32.50000
60.00000 -3.00000 -13.00000
65.00000 -3.00000 -32.50000
-0.00000 15.00000 -32.50000
end

linedefs
0 1
0 2
1 2
0 11
1 3
2 4
3 4
3 11
4 11
0 5
5 11
0 8
8 11
5 7
8 10
4 7
3 10
6 7
9 10
5 6
8 9
4 6
3 9
1 9
2 6
end

and thats a cobra mk3

[Reprobator]

I've read on the wiki that when you use max exporter , the moi get wrong with it, can't it be fixed by loading the pof freshly created with pcs2 for recalculation?

[Nuke]

i usually find a similar ship and use its moi, but the moi calculator on pcs2 seems to work ok. as of now i convert with the max plugin and tweak with pcs 2. small tweaks, as good as it is i want to do as little in pcs2 as possible. like if im scripting a feature and i need to add 2 polygons to a ship, this approach is very useful, and very fast.

[Reprobator]

ok that's what i use to do , i've replace an old model that i use to convert one year ago , same size, same moi and same mass and exactly same table entry but the physics response ingame is quite different for the two models, i ll dig it up some more   

[Reprobator]

on the wiki, it says that :
"The converter miscalculates the radius of the model by approximately a factor of 2"

So is it the reason why when i try to shoot at my ship, i have almost no collision and can't touch it?

If the answer is yes so i still wonder, to correct it should i multiply by 2 or divide by 2 the models radius?

[Kazan]

you should

A) not use the MAX plugin, ever
B) see if PCS2 can clean it up (just open it and save it back out)