[headdie]

aside from the section around the lower front multipart that is a nice piece of modelling

[Aesaar]

Yes, in my haste to upload, I forgot to set smoothing properly.

EDIT: there, that should do it.

[An4ximandros]

There seems to be a rogue bridging between the pipes, other than that is looks really nice, though I personally would increase the length of the pipe area. (and nice Hiigaran BCruiser-esque ship )

[headdie]

yes that's got it.

[Klaustrophobia]

i think it would look quite.... frail if the pipes were any longer.  i'd say it already does if it weren't for the crosspiece on the bottom. 

[Ryuseiken]

Can't wait to see how it looks in-engine. Has anyone said whether or not these models will be incorporated into the next release?

[Droid803]

They will if they're completed beforehand but I doubt they would delay release waiting for upgrades.

[SaltyWaffles]

Excellent modelling. The new Diomedes looks great (and much more Terran in design). And the new Chimera...wow. So awesome, detailed, and appealing. Really feels like next-gen design/aesthetic/tech. Both models look very organized, neat, symmetrical, and efficient.



A few questions, though:
1) What's the deal with the "drones" version of the Diomedes?
2) Why do the Diomedes torpedo launchers shoot Piranhas instead of torpedoes (like the Eos, Supernova, etc)? Especially if the Diomedes has a good-sized fighter complement, it really shouldn't sacrifice some much-needed anti-ship firepower for a small and rather unneeded AA capability. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if Piranhas don't have tracking/homing, and they're fired vertically from the VLS launchers, won't that limit them to hitting targets directly above or below those launchers? There's already a bunch of STerPulse's there.
3) On the tables--some of the turrets are filled with "SterPulse" instead of "STerPulse"; no idea if this actually makes a difference, but I've noticed that tables can be a tad picky sometimes.
4) Why not replace the Terran Turret 2's with STerPulse's? The higher RoF and longer range (IIRC) makes it pretty decent at warhead interception (especially when dealing with Warhammer and Apocalypse spam), and it also doubles as good AA firepower and modest secondary anti-ship firepower as well. And with a good fighter complement, it could just leave the warhead interception duties to its own fighter cover if there are really that many warheads in the air.
5) Most of the applicable turrets are not set to fire in salvo mode, and the VLS launchers are only assigned weapons to two of their four firing points (unless I'm not understanding that tabling bit correctly).
6) Why is the turret rotation speed so slow? Maybe I've just never noticed what is actually the norm for turret rotation speeds, but 20 seconds for a 360-degree turn--when we're talking about a small turret designed for both point defense and supplamental anti-ship firepower--seems surprisingly sluggish.
7) Some of the turrets randomly have less health than others of the same type. There might be reasons behind this, but I couldn't see any at first glance.
8) Erm...why not replace a few of the AAAf's with anti-ship beams? For a huge corvette that has an impressively large fighter complement, it shouldn't need that much in the way of redundant point defenses. I tinkered around a bit, and found an interesting change might be to replace turrets 6 and 7 with TerSlashBlue's, to give the ship more fitting firepower for its size and expense. Turrets 4 and 5 are a bit too solitary over a large area for replacing them with anti-ship beams to be viable (the top-rear portion of the ship is actually surprisingly barren of turrets, come to think of it). I also swapped out the VLS launchers' munitions from Piranhas to Eos's, as it seemed more fitting and true to its description (IIRC, didn't it mention using torpedo launchers? Might be confusing it with something else).

I can see why it's not meant to replace the Deimos--it's too large and different to fit the same role and cost--but it does beg the question as to why Deimos corvettes still use the same weaponry and armor in WiH as they did in the NTF Rebellion in FS2. Okay, maybe I just want to see more VSlash and TerSlashBlue beams in use, and the TerSlash is something like 20+ years old at this point...


Though I wonder...why not replace the turrets on the dorsal portion of the Deimos with STerPulse's--or replace half of them with flak? Wasn't that the Deimos' one major weakness in AA coverage?

Sorry for the rambling. I love these models; I was blown away. Fantastic work, good sir! If you've got any grunt work that I may know how to do, I'd be happy to give it a shot. Regardless, take your time and enjoy what you do--with quality like this it's definitely more than worth the wait.

[Aesaar]

I really hope to finish these before release.  Counter-intuitively, with my classes starting again, I should have more time to devote to this.  3d modelling does wonders for concentration in class, I've found.

I'm wary of setting a schedule (because we saw how that worked out over the summer), but I hope to have the Bellerophon and the two destroyers done by the end of the year.  No guarantees.

An4ximandros: The corvette is already a fair bit longer than the original model, which ended near the start of the engine section.  Klaustrophobia is also quite right about the pipes already looking frail without the crosspiece.  And yeah, Homeworld ship.  A WIP totally not for a possible campaign.

[An4ximandros]

Hmm, good point.

I'll just hope you make it look awesome with textures as always, do you have plans for the Hyperion? or is someone else making an HTL of that?

[Aesaar]

If people really want the Hyperion first, I'll do it, but ATM I plan to do the Hyperion after the Titan.  While we don't see the destroyers as often, they're a lot more important to the story.  The curvy Titan will be quite interesting to do in this style.  A little nervous about them too, since they're the best looking ships in the Stratcomm fleet, and people love them. 

I've also been seeing serious texture distortion on the Titan.  I don't know if I'm the only one having this problem, but I find it annoying enough to bump the Hyperion back. 

[SaltyWaffles]

If people really want the Hyperion first, I'll do it, but ATM I plan to do the Hyperion after the Titan.  While we don't see the destroyers as often, they're a lot more important to the story.  The curvy Titan will be quite interesting to do in this style.  A little nervous about them too, since they're the best looking ships in the Stratcomm fleet, and people love them. 

I've also been seeing serious texture distortion on the Titan.  I don't know if it's just me, but I find it annoying enough to bump the Hyperion back.

Well, best of luck to you.

Personally, I think the Hyperion has the most problems, and the Titan does already have a pretty popular design. Still, do what you like--that's the most important part.

Though I would love to see the Hyperion made to a smaller size--being twice the size of an Aeolus while having fewer turrets and worse coverage is a bit...well, not cost efficient at all. Not to mention that its hull strength is about the same, too; if you replaced the Aeolus' SGreens with SBlue's, I'd never bother with the Hyperion.

[Ryuseiken]

I've always thought the design of the engines on the Titan looked weird as well, like two different ship engines were glued together. Is this intentional like the Raynor struts, where the segments are supposed to be interchangeable?

[Scotty]

Quite honestly, if the Titan were just reskinned to look like the rest of the new ships, I would be very happy.

[MatthTheGeek]

1) What's the deal with the "drones" version of the Diomedes?

There have been (a little more than) rumours of Tevs deploying old bombers such as Zeus and/or Medusa as drones in the future. The drone version made by Aesaar would just be a way to deploy them morer quickly, there is not indication yet that the BP team plan to use this version at all, or even if drone bombers are still on the plate at all. Still, it's a good thing to have there for other campaigns !

2) Why do the Diomedes torpedo launchers shoot Piranhas instead of torpedoes (like the Eos, Supernova, etc)? Especially if the Diomedes has a good-sized fighter complement, it really shouldn't sacrifice some much-needed anti-ship firepower for a small and rather unneeded AA capability. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if Piranhas don't have tracking/homing, and they're fired vertically from the VLS launchers, won't that limit them to hitting targets directly above or below those launchers? There's already a bunch of STerPulse's there.

Torpedoes are more expensive than Piranhas, and the Dio already has more anticap firepower than a Chimera as it is. You'll notice though that TBI's Dio has Supernova launchers instead of Piranha, hinting at the launchers accepting different types of missiles.

3) On the tables--some of the turrets are filled with "SterPulse" instead of "STerPulse"; no idea if this actually makes a difference, but I've noticed that tables can be a tad picky sometimes.

I do not think it is case-sensitive. If it is, debug (and even release IIRC) will yell at you pretty quickly anyway.

4) Why not replace the Terran Turret 2's with STerPulse's? The higher RoF and longer range (IIRC) makes it pretty decent at warhead interception (especially when dealing with Warhammer and Apocalypse spam), and it also doubles as good AA firepower and modest secondary anti-ship firepower as well. And with a good fighter complement, it could just leave the warhead interception duties to its own fighter cover if there are really that many warheads in the air.

Again, Pulse weapons are more expensive, and likely draw more energy than TT2s. And don't forget Pulse weapons have a FoF, making them utterly terrible at warhead interception. Always better to keep a few TT2s there.

8) Erm...why not replace a few of the AAAf's with anti-ship beams? For a huge corvette that has an impressively large fighter complement, it shouldn't need that much in the way of redundant point defenses. I tinkered around a bit, and found an interesting change might be to replace turrets 6 and 7 with TerSlashBlue's, to give the ship more fitting firepower for its size and expense. Turrets 4 and 5 are a bit too solitary over a large area for replacing them with anti-ship beams to be viable (the top-rear portion of the ship is actually surprisingly barren of turrets, come to think of it). I also swapped out the VLS launchers' munitions from Piranhas to Eos's, as it seemed more fitting and true to its description (IIRC, didn't it mention using torpedo launchers? Might be confusing it with something else).

wtf am I reading

Jeeze, you DO realize that the Dio alread has more firepower than a Chimera, right ? You DO realize that it is the single more powerful and versatile corvette-sized ship of the BP universe, right ? That thing is utterly overpowered, and you want to double its number of anticap beams ?

And yeah, no, the Dio doesn't have an "impressively large fighter complement", and it NEEDS its anti-fighter armament. Try to fly Uriel against a dio, and you'll notice pretty quickly that its anti-fighter defenses aren't all that impressive as it is. Wouldn't be an excellent idea to remove all those AAAf.

I can see why it's not meant to replace the Deimos--it's too large and different to fit the same role and cost--but it does beg the question as to why Deimos corvettes still use the same weaponry and armor in WiH as they did in the NTF Rebellion in FS2. Okay, maybe I just want to see more VSlash and TerSlashBlue beams in use, and the TerSlash is something like 20+ years old at this point...

Though I wonder...why not replace the turrets on the dorsal portion of the Deimos with STerPulse's--or replace half of them with flak? Wasn't that the Deimos' one major weakness in AA coverage?

As discussed about 875643289 times around here, you can't replace the beams of a Capella-era warship with newer beams. And no, they don't use the same armor, Deimos have active armor now just like every other warship, just not at the level of newer ships. And there have been Deimos deployed in Sol that were using some TT2s or Pulse weaponry, which are much easier to swap around and make work on old power grids than blue beams.

[Aesaar]

SaltyWaffles: I completely missed your post.  Sorry.  I'll probably be repeating some of what MatthTheGeek said.

A few questions, though:
1) What's the deal with the "drones" version of the Diomedes?

There have been (a little more than) rumours of Tevs deploying old bombers such as Zeus and/or Medusa as drones in the future. The drone version made by Aesaar would just be a way to deploy them morer quickly, there is not indication yet that the BP team plan to use this version at all, or even if drone bombers are still on the plate at all. Still, it's a good thing to have there for other campaigns !

Actually, I was specifically asked by General Battuta to make sure that there was a version with drone dockpoints.

Oh, ****, yes. Please maintain all the dockpoints from the original Diomedes, those are very important to some capabilities in R2 (external drone racks)

2) Why do the Diomedes torpedo launchers shoot Piranhas instead of torpedoes (like the Eos, Supernova, etc)? Especially if the Diomedes has a good-sized fighter complement, it really shouldn't sacrifice some much-needed anti-ship firepower for a small and rather unneeded AA capability. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if Piranhas don't have tracking/homing, and they're fired vertically from the VLS launchers, won't that limit them to hitting targets directly above or below those launchers? There's already a bunch of STerPulse's there.

Like Matt said, they can load Supernovas.  The Triteia in TBI has them loaded, for instance.  Honestly, I'd have preferred to make a whole new Piranha-like missile instead of the Piranha, but that wouldn't make this model drop-in.  The main reason it's loaded with Piranhas by default is that the original model was.  V1.0 had Supernovas, but they screwed up balance in Darkest Hour and Aristeia.

3) On the tables--some of the turrets are filled with "SterPulse" instead of "STerPulse"; no idea if this actually makes a difference, but I've noticed that tables can be a tad picky sometimes.

Tables aren't case-sensitive, fortunately.  HW2 would have probably crashed.   Temperamental, that game.

4) Why not replace the Terran Turret 2's with STerPulse's? The higher RoF and longer range (IIRC) makes it pretty decent at warhead interception (especially when dealing with Warhammer and Apocalypse spam), and it also doubles as good AA firepower and modest secondary anti-ship firepower as well. And with a good fighter complement, it could just leave the warhead interception duties to its own fighter cover if there are really that many warheads in the air.

The $FOF flag in the STerPulse entry makes it too innaccurate for torpedo interception at anything but really close range.  The TT2 doesn't have this problem.  They'll still try to do it, and they'll sometimes get lucky, but the TT2 is much more reliable.

5) Most of the applicable turrets are not set to fire in salvo mode, and the VLS launchers are only assigned weapons to two of their four firing points (unless I'm not understanding that tabling bit correctly).

Consistency.  The Titan's torpedo batteries have four banks for 8 tubes.  This launcher has half the tubes, so half the banks.  Honestly, I have no idea if it even makes a difference if both banks have the same weapon on infinite ammo capships.

6) Why is the turret rotation speed so slow? Maybe I've just never noticed what is actually the norm for turret rotation speeds, but 20 seconds for a 360-degree turn--when we're talking about a small turret designed for both point defense and supplamental anti-ship firepower--seems surprisingly sluggish.

7) Some of the turrets randomly have less health than others of the same type. There might be reasons behind this, but I couldn't see any at first glance.

Not changed from Sparta Diomedes table, but I confess I hadn't noticed.

8) Erm...why not replace a few of the AAAf's with anti-ship beams? For a huge corvette that has an impressively large fighter complement, it shouldn't need that much in the way of redundant point defenses. I tinkered around a bit, and found an interesting change might be to replace turrets 6 and 7 with TerSlashBlue's, to give the ship more fitting firepower for its size and expense. Turrets 4 and 5 are a bit too solitary over a large area for replacing them with anti-ship beams to be viable (the top-rear portion of the ship is actually surprisingly barren of turrets, come to think of it). I also swapped out the VLS launchers' munitions from Piranhas to Eos's, as it seemed more fitting and true to its description (IIRC, didn't it mention using torpedo launchers? Might be confusing it with something else).

Compare the size of the slashers to the size of the AAAfs. Also, the Diomedes is probably the most formidable non-destroyer ship in Sol.  Giving it beam firepower to rival the Raynor's broadside really isn't needed.  The torpedo launchers can already fire Supernovas.  I have no doubt they can fire Eos' as well.  When the team (or anyone else) wants that, they can change it in FRED.

I can see why it's not meant to replace the Deimos--it's too large and different to fit the same role and cost--but it does beg the question as to why Deimos corvettes still use the same weaponry and armor in WiH as they did in the NTF Rebellion in FS2. Okay, maybe I just want to see more VSlash and TerSlashBlue beams in use, and the TerSlash is something like 20+ years old at this point...

Though I wonder...why not replace the turrets on the dorsal portion of the Deimos with STerPulse's--or replace half of them with flak? Wasn't that the Deimos' one major weakness in AA coverage?

The reason Capella-era ships can't mount blue beams is because they draw more power than the reactors can practically support.  Maybe the Deimos could mount SBlues, but that's hardly an improvement over TerSlashes.  They do mount pulse cannons on occasion.

[Droid803]

5) Most of the applicable turrets are not set to fire in salvo mode, and the VLS launchers are only assigned weapons to two of their four firing points (unless I'm not understanding that tabling bit correctly).

Consistency.  The Titan's torpedo batteries have four banks for 8 tubes.  This launcher has half the tubes, so half the banks.  Honestly, I have no idea if it even makes a difference if both banks have the same weapon on infinite ammo capships.

Actually, having one, two, or three weapons specified does nothing at all. Only the first specified weapon is used and it cycles through all the available firepoints.
Unless you have "use multiple guns", in which case it will act as if it had however many instances equipped, and they cycle through all the available firepoints - ie. two weapons will have twice the fire rate.
If you have "fixed firepoints", then the first weapon uses the first firepoint, etc.
If "salvo mode" is used, then the weapon fires out of all available firepoints simultaneously.

[Col.Hornet]

yay, now after your surgery, I will love the Bel (it was ugly as ..** in my opinion). I also approved your texturing pattern (less candy-looking then old ones with typhoon blue tilemap ( I can't remember it's number). I am very glad that You came back to work on this project.  

[Scotty]

Salty, try to set up a Diomedes versus a Karuna, with both ships in optimal position.

The Diomedes rips the Karuna to shreds in about a minute, and finishes with over 50% health.

Now try it with the Diomedes coming in under the Karuna, which can't bring its main guns to bear.

The Diomedes tears the Karuna a new in about a minute, again, except this time it finishes with over 80% health.

The Diomedes is a scary ship.  They just suffer from consistent bad luck (and being on the wrong side of the fight from the protagonist).

[Aesaar]

The Diomedes is funny because it consistently suffers from the Worf Effect yet is still terrifying.  I'd really like to see one smacking a couple of Karunas around without getting destroyed in the process.