Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Nuke on February 01, 2008, 03:15:11 am

Title: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on February 01, 2008, 03:15:11 am
me and aardwolf were discussing the feasibility o making an rts mod with the freespace engine. he came up with the idea and was curious if scripting would be capable of doing the job. i think it is very possible that it could be done.

very little in the way of graphics is required for this mod. with the media vps that pretty much takes care of eye candy. most of what is required is script and missions, and to work out the details of gameplay. the last part requires feedback and much discussion.

first off the missions would be 2d for the most part, the view would be much like starcraft. a camera would over a distance over the level pointing down. you would have control of position, zoom and maybe rotation of the camera. a gui would be made to allow ships to be selected and given orders.

there would probibly be some resource mining, possibly from asteroid fields by using freighters. theese would be taken to a base such as an arcadia to be processed. gas miners would jump out of system, and bring back a load of gas to fuel caps. stations would build fighters and couls place orders for larger ships from out of system ship yards. this requires players to hold nodes to get to out of system resources.

fighters and bombers, when completed, fly from the base and dock with your capships' figher bays, thus increasing their fighter complement. they may possible be also sent to a rallying point or right into battle. larger ships warp in from out of system.

intrasystem jumps may be possible. the drives need to be charged up between use. a minimum charge required plus a charge cost per km would probibly also be a good idea. the accuracy of the jump would also diminish with distance of deployment. ships jumping together would still come out in formation, but the position of that formation would vary. also there would be a limit for how close you can jump to a given object. it would be cheap to jump bombers in 300 meters from their targets.

capship battles remain the same, but you can control the waypoints caps may follow, or explicitly give them a position to hold. beam weapons and engines would require fuel. fuel is tracked and when gets low needs to be replentished with a gas miner docking with it. the ship is essentially disabled and unable to use large weapons untill refuling occures. they also need materials to be shipped in from the base or from a supply depot, to supplement things like field repairs, weapon manufacture, and figher repairs.

there are many other details but i dont recall them all.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 01, 2008, 03:20:28 am
Congratulations on your 6,000th post, Nuke.

That sounds pretty accurate. I can't think of anything right now that you missed, but since I logged the chat, I can dig the log up and find out anything else.

In the meantime, comments, ideas, and suggestions from HLP'ers would be appreciated.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Nuke on February 01, 2008, 03:22:00 am
especially fredders. i dont think either of us know mission design.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 01, 2008, 03:29:22 am
One thing left out was the question of multiplayer. If it turns out to be doable, mutliplayer could be done in more than one way; different players might be controlling different ships on the same team, or there might be a faction per player, etc. This depends on exactly how easy/hard these turn out to be when the time comes for that.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Reprobator on February 01, 2008, 03:49:46 am
from gas to fuel shouldn't it required some work in a sort of refinery ?
So the  gas miners gather gas->dock to refinery station or ship->freighter load fuel and undock from the refinery and dock with your cap ships to refuel him


No?


Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Nuke on February 01, 2008, 04:10:41 am
i figure a ship that size would be its own refinery. why else would you need to escort them to the big c for refueling.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Reprobator on February 01, 2008, 04:20:27 am
ok i didn't figure out that cap ships could have it s own refinery system , that's logical  :)
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Nuke on February 01, 2008, 05:26:23 am
what else are you gonna do with all that space, swimming pools and a sauna perhaps? (like the russian typhoon class :D )
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Turnsky on February 01, 2008, 09:04:28 am
<delurk> 

so how are you gonna do it?.. isometric (ala C&C) or semi 3d (like homeworld)?

</delurk>
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Hellstryker on February 01, 2008, 09:07:45 am
The answer is quite simple really. NUKES!
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 01, 2008, 09:08:33 am
The plan so far is for a top-down view (assuming Nuke and I are communicating on the same frequency).




As an interesting side note, the idea for this mod came from me mistakenly thinking rtt (render to texture) meant "realtime tactics"; I thought it was something Nuke was already working on, and then saying something to the effect of "let's do what i thought you meant"
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 01, 2008, 10:21:25 am
Heh, make a FreeSpace: Total War.

Make an RTS map/engine for managing units and resources, then when the mission time comes, the game script FREDs you a mission, fires up FS2_Open engine, lets you fly the mission, records the outcome and continues on the RTS map mode accordingly...

 :drevil:
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Titan on February 01, 2008, 01:22:40 pm
I have a lot of expierience making maps for RTS games:

star wars galactic battlefront
star wars empire at war
civilization III conquest


granted, they never really graduated to something i would release.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Admiral_Stones on February 01, 2008, 01:41:32 pm
<delurk> 

so how are you gonna do it?.. isometric (ala C&C) or semi 3d (like homeworld)?

</delurk>

Eh? IIRC Homeworld 1&2 are fully 3-Dimensional.
Homeworld 1 was AFAIK the first game ever to feature true 3-dimensionality.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on February 01, 2008, 01:45:50 pm
Perhaps it would be a nice idea to use eras, like the Age of Empire games. There should at least be an FS1 and an FS2 era, and those who feel inspired could make the previous and/or the following eras, based on mods, for example.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: MP-Ryan on February 01, 2008, 02:53:10 pm
Hold it... make an RTS with the FS2 engine?  Why would you try to modify a first-person-shooter engine drastically enough to turn it into a RTS game?  Use an existing RTS engine.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Admiral_Stones on February 01, 2008, 03:05:04 pm
Or even make your own. Whilst it's helluva work, it will perfectly suit your needs.
If you know nothing to almost nothing (like me), get a night off, get some coffee and spend a night with Unity and it's tutorials (like me).
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 01, 2008, 03:30:07 pm
Well, modding an existing game, or even creating a new game with an FS2 theme, would not be an 'exact' enough FreeSpace game.

Also, it's sort of just a "do it for the sake of doing it" thing.

And yes, I am aware that there was once a Homeworld > FreeSpace mod, meant to make the TV war seem cool or something, but iirc that died.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Janos on February 01, 2008, 04:35:43 pm
Convert FS to Europa Universalis/Victoria/Hearts of Iron engine

easy and straightforward
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Nuke on February 01, 2008, 04:58:06 pm
Hold it... make an RTS with the FS2 engine?  Why would you try to modify a first-person-shooter engine drastically enough to turn it into a RTS game?  Use an existing RTS engine.

thats not really something i want to do. ive never modded an rts, i did look into the possibility of modding starcraft at one point but i did not like the limitations it imposed. also i dont own a modern rts game whith which too mod. and my budget doesnt really include much excess for games.

also i have been modding this game since fs1. and i got a good handle on the lua scripting system. it was because of this that i not only figured the mod would be possible, but it would also be a really good idea.

i remember there was an rts mode for quake 2 but it wasnt all that good. the reason being is they didnt put much thought into it. hence the purpose of this discussion. starcraft was good because every unit had a function, an advantage, and another species had an ability to counter that advantage. how do we apply this concept to the fs universe without butchering it?
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Retsof on February 01, 2008, 07:43:00 pm
Suggestion:
You should be able to get all your resources from the systems you own.  You could mine Hydrogen from gas giants,  get other raw materials from asteroids and planets, (perhaps get some extra water from comets).  Also, you should be able to manufacture all ships in a given system.  You would have to upgrade your station with shipyard facilities, (I know there is a ship construction facility in TPI.)  This would also act like your Tech Levels, you have to upgrade your station to get better ships.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Nuke on February 01, 2008, 08:28:45 pm
well i got the camera working. it can scroll, rotate and zoom. rates scale to how zoomed you are. i guess now we need a gui. all this is just the foundation for the mod.

things like resources and how to implement havent been fully thought up. so far weve come up with asteroids for metals, and gas miners for fuel. it might not be possible to use 3d planets, so i was thinking using a node as the resource location, to jump to a nebula or a gas giant. the other idea was to jump the miners off to a gas giant in system (but not shown in the mission) with an intra system jump. but this eliminates a control point from the game.

comets are a good idea for water, small enough to be allowed in mission, but water really doesnt play much of a roll in the fs universe. i really dont want to make it resource hell. perhaps convoys can be deployed through your node to load your ships up with provisions for the crew. so the number of ships you have is dependent on the number of freighters you own. loosing freighters reduces your unit strength and you can no longer order new units until you either order new freighters or more can be deployed by command. i could probibly also deminish the ships ai class to simulate poor crew conditions as well in the event of expenditure > income (or increase if vice versa).

so

fuel = operational status of warships, part of build cost
metals = main portion of build cost
provisions = consumed by crew over time, required to support new crew (and therefore ships). shortages mean reduced ai capability
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Retsof on February 01, 2008, 08:42:41 pm
I have no Idea if this is Possible, but you could get 3D planets from Empire at War.
Perhaps in extreme shortages you would have to drydock a ship or two and send the crew home (unless you want them to starve to death).  Also, this would free up resources for your remaining ships.  To reactivate the ship would take X amount of time (increasing for bigger ships) to get it crewed again, but no extra materials (except the supplies for the crew, of course).
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Nuke on February 01, 2008, 08:55:55 pm
planets arent exactly hard to make, hi-poly (or a normal-mapped low poly) sphere + planet shader is all you need. then bake the texture off of that.

ship status will go to disabled when the fuel runs dry. so doing the same thing for provisions would be redundant. but still if youre crew is on 1/10th rations their ai capacity for their ship will diminish to ensign, making it cannon fodder.

an excess of provisions may increase the crew proficiency, increasing its ai class. a ship may also gain prestige will a number of kills and a high proficiency. overall prestige allows you access to newer technology, kaysers instead of proms ect. making it the equivalent of an upgrade system.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 01, 2008, 09:44:51 pm
We now have a camera, using mouse to scroll, zoom, and rotate. The specifics of how it does all three of those actions will be revealed in due time.

Additional work on the camera, the map bounds, etc. is getting done by Nuke as I type this.

There was a minor bug involving cutscenes, but I imagine it's either something we can fix or something related to the special build we are using.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Polpolion on February 01, 2008, 10:16:08 pm
Just how 2D is this?  Are the fighters and stuff on the same axis, or do they have something like no greater than X, no less than Y, for dogfighting?
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 01, 2008, 10:28:45 pm
Here is the first screenshot!

(http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l77/Aardwolf001/FS2OpenRTS/Img001.png)

Just how 2D is this?  Are the fighters and stuff on the same axis, or do they have something like no greater than X, no less than Y, for dogfighting?

Well, originally it was going to be entirely on the xz plane (horizontal), but now we are planning on allowing a few kilometers of movement on the y axis. We are considering using something like Shadows of Lylat's rail mission system to make ships stay within the game area, which will be about 100 km on a side and an as of yet undecided number of kilometers in depth.



Edit: Nvm, no edit.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: MP-Ryan on February 01, 2008, 11:02:06 pm
Regarding balance:

Why not build an RTS without resource micromanagement, but based on a risk-style concept... the more territory you hold, the greater the resources you can command (in the form of timed reinforcement requests from jump nodes).  You could use jump nodes as bases and divide a system into sectors of interest which allow for additional unit reinforcements.

FS is not really a game that lends itself to resource management, but you could quite easily build territory control and reinforcements into the existing canonical parts of the game.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 01, 2008, 11:24:26 pm
I would say (and I haven't discussed this with Nuke yet) that if you were to do something like Risk, you would need a TON of ships in order to occupy all of the map, or all of the resource centers, or what-have-you.

We can't have more ships than the engine will display at a reasonable framerate.

Also,

resource micromanagement

is not something I think either me or Nuke is planning on having. There will be resources of some sort, yes, but to make it fun and FreeSpace-y, the focus of the game will be more on how you use them than how you acquire and protect them. I'm not sure quite how it could be done, but I think it would be best to reduce the effectiveness of the sort of "worker raids" that require so much attention in other strategy games.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 02, 2008, 12:39:48 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CofhrUDBCbI

The first gameplay video. I will upload a high-res version to my game-warden account soon.

I have uploaded a high-res version to my game-warden account.

It can be found here: http://www.game-warden.com/masterpokey/FS2OpenRTS/FS2OpenRTS001.avi
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Singh on February 02, 2008, 03:13:00 am
This has...potential. Although I really dont see why you want to stick with just a top-down view - shouldn't it be possible to just keep it ala HW? It would be possible, since the commands to let it stay focused on certain units and rotate free around them already exist - it would be just a matter of modifying those to let you roam freely around the world. You could of course, impose limits on the ceiling and area the camera could move around, but just limiting it to top-down seems kinda...pointless, I think. 

If you ever get it up and working though, especially for the editor hit me a PM and maybe I can help do you guys up a good story. :D
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Nuke on February 02, 2008, 03:58:35 am
i think the top-down view gives you the biggest picture you can have, and also simplifies the math involved in making selections, ect. i am planning 1 or 2 auxiliary displays though, an idea i had is to have cinematic cameras follow the ships around, from like a cockpit view or following the group out from behind it abit or from a random turret, ect, to get a battlefield level view, theese would be rendered to a texture and placed in the command overlay. this sorta fills the role of the character animation you had in stacraft. but the action is real time.

i may include a free look command, that lets you, temporarily, tilt the inclination of the camera, but its sort of a low priority. in general keeping the play area flat makes the units easier to find/manage/control. the huge scale differences would make it too easy to loose small ships when zoomed out to the juggernaut scale.

anyway as for controls, the border represents the control zone. its like my moysejoy function but with a really big deadzone. with no buttons pressed, you can translate the camera by movint into the coresponding region, an the closer to the edge you go, the faster the scroll. right mouse toggles zoom and rotate functions for the same regions. im gonna go ahead and make it possible to do these functions with the standard flight controls, through either the joystick or the keyboard, so that yaw and pitch act as translate, bank acts as rotate and the throttle is your zoom.

the player ship will be just a dummy model which is invisible and non-solid. it will sit up behind the camera somewhere, and will be stealth and invisible to the other ships for the most part. this allows me to use its targeting commands, and hijack its flight controls as a means to accsess the joystick to control other things. dummy weapons may be used, the presence of which in mission can initiate other functions. we dont have full keyboard access but we can differ a few functions.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Nuke on February 02, 2008, 07:12:30 am
i didnt get the selections working yet, but i revamped the interface. now the keypad controls the translation amd rotation of the view, as does the joystick. throttle keys control the zoom, but in a relative sort of way. i might tweak it so that the throttle sets the zoom in absolute terms, meaning pushing the throttle all the way zooms in to max, pulling out zooms out to max. this also lets you use what would normally be your throttle presets to go to preset zoom levels. il think about it. if you accidently hit m however, you might get some intresting side effects. :D you can still use the mouse, the script just uses whatever input is greater.

targeting works. i placed the player ship (which is essentially removed from play, im only using it to facilitate a variety of interface functions) a few hundred units above the maximum altitude that ships will be allowed to go, directly behind the camera. this allows you to use the target reticle to target whatever is in the center of the screen. you can still cycle targets and their subsystems and turrets as well. im still gonna have point and click targeting and multi targeting somehow, both of which will work in sorta the same way as ship selection. its starting to look like im snowed in for the duration of the weekend, so other than doing my taxes il work on that.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 02, 2008, 10:44:33 am
I wish I wasn't on a laptop and therefore didn't have to hold the fn key to use the 'numpad'...
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: shiv on February 02, 2008, 11:59:36 am
This... is... awesome!! ;7 :eek2:
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Retsof on February 02, 2008, 05:35:38 pm
Perhaps for development purposes you could just put in one resource for everything which always comes in.  Then you could test stuff without needing to figure out several resources.  Also, is the command interface done? If so, I would like to download this, as long as it doesn't exceed 2 MB. (pathetic internet)
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 02, 2008, 05:58:32 pm
The command interface is not done yet. We are still working on selection.

When this gets uploaded, note that it requires a special build to run.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Retsof on February 02, 2008, 06:17:27 pm
Special build... okay... urhm... yeah.  :nervous:
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Nuke on February 02, 2008, 08:22:26 pm
not really, it just needs a head build.

all the scripting features i need are in head, so i could always build head if need be. not sure about bob's rtt stuff, but i dont think we need it any time soon.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Warp Shadow on February 02, 2008, 09:27:50 pm
 :eek2:
This is AMAZING!!!
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Titan on February 04, 2008, 06:59:02 am
Brilliant! when is it gonna be released? do we need any special adjustments?
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: jdjtcagle on February 04, 2008, 07:36:50 am
nevermind
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Nuke on February 05, 2008, 09:02:54 pm
muhahaha!

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: bizzybody on February 05, 2008, 09:03:51 pm
What I'd like to see in an RTS is veteran units that are kept from mission to mission so their gaining experience actually has a point. The number of kills in a game like Starcraft was pretty much just a bit of extra frippery because you couldn't keep Mr. Space Marine with 59 kills for the next mission.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 05, 2008, 09:12:15 pm
While that would require extra data, I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to script, and if properly done, it wouldn't cause any slowdown beyond a few femtoseconds (exaggeration, obviously). However, it would discourage short single-mission play, I think.

Edit: and Nuke, at least use the lightspeed nebulas!
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Nuke on February 05, 2008, 09:34:02 pm
i disabled them for testing purposes. it would slow things down alot (as far as load times go) every time i checked every small little code tweak i did.
Title: Re: freespace rts mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 05, 2008, 10:00:20 pm
We're really making progress now. As it so happens, Nuke is currently putting the finishing touches on a giant overtiled quad.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on February 06, 2008, 02:49:15 am
this is by far the best model i have ever done, 200000 meters a side and completely flat!
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on February 06, 2008, 07:04:53 am
... and what is it for?  :sigh:
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 06, 2008, 09:17:59 am
Indeed, that, my friend, is the question.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on February 06, 2008, 09:26:48 pm
This is a possible image for the RTS Mod image.

(http://www.game-warden.com/masterpokey/FS2OpenRTS/fsrts.png)
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: lenard27 on February 26, 2008, 11:58:56 pm
How's progress on this thing going? It looks awesome so far!

Aardwolf, I'd just ask you in an IM but I think this needs bumped anyways...
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on February 28, 2008, 09:35:03 am
development is halted pending some ai features being added to the scripting system. also i started working again so im short on time to mod/script.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on March 24, 2008, 08:50:12 pm
Now that a new version of the executables has been given to us, we have resumed modding.

Hopefully we'll be able to accomplish something before the next stumbling block and/or financial problem.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on March 24, 2008, 09:57:29 pm
(http://www.game-warden.com/nukemod-cos/fsrts/screen0013.png)

Now that a new version of the executables has been given to us, we have resumed modding.

Hopefully we'll be able to accomplish something before the next stumbling block and/or financial problem.

you left out drug/booze problem :D
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on March 24, 2008, 10:18:43 pm
That screenshot sucks and you know it.

(http://www.game-warden.com/masterpokey/FS2OpenRTS/Images003-6.gif)
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on March 24, 2008, 10:24:08 pm
showoff! :D
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Mars on March 24, 2008, 11:07:53 pm
I'm very impressed, I can't wait for this.

How do you plan on implementing unit repair? Obviously fighters and bomber could just return to the ships and just not have their status recorded,

Capital ships could be more complicated however.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Unknown Target on March 24, 2008, 11:55:21 pm
Very cool.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Droid803 on March 25, 2008, 12:14:37 am
Oh hells yes! I love RTS :D
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: shiv on March 25, 2008, 02:27:41 am
I can't wait for release ;7
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: ShadowGorrath on March 25, 2008, 05:43:48 am
Guess I'll have to start watching this one. One question though- ship names. Does the player get to name them, or are they just random names from some list?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on March 25, 2008, 06:53:28 am
Maybe like EaW, you don't even see names unless you hover the mouse over them.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: ShadowGorrath on March 25, 2008, 08:11:50 am
I meant, does the player get to name/call the ship ? For example, I have an Orion and want to call it Terra. Do I get to do it, or does it already come with some random name ?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on March 25, 2008, 10:40:14 am
Right now, the plan seems to be to have user-made ships have no name, and special 'hero' ships will show names. For example, a colossus or an Orion might have a name, but a freighter generally wouldn't.

This is all subject to change and confirmation of course.

Edit: actually, I can think now of an easy way to name ships in the script, it's just how to activate it properly. Too many buttons = user hell.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Droid803 on March 25, 2008, 11:36:28 am
I don't think that a random name form a list is that bad.
After all, you can edit the list to get new names, right?

Obviously, ships important to the storyline would retain their name (as in, not have one fetched from the list, actually pre-assigned).
I wouldn't want to have to name every ship I made personally, since I'll end up using numbers... since creativity runs out, and you start losing too many ships to think of other names.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on March 25, 2008, 12:01:29 pm
Right now, the plan seems to be to have user-made ships have no name, and special 'hero' ships will show names. For example, a colossus or an Orion might have a name, but a freighter generally wouldn't.

This is all subject to change and confirmation of course.

Edit: actually, I can think now of an easy way to name ships in the script, it's just how to activate it properly. Too many buttons = user hell.

just remember to change the name string in the meta system as well. otherwise youl loose the ability to get stats for that ship
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Jake2447 on March 25, 2008, 08:06:47 pm
I really like this idea.  What youve done so far looks great.  Question: Will there be an on screen command menu or will all comands be given through keyboard shortcuts?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on March 25, 2008, 08:11:43 pm
Actually, the on-screen menu is the next step we are beginning to work on.

It will probably consist of two rows of buttons along the bottom of the screen, to the right of the tactical radar (minimap).
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Jake2447 on March 25, 2008, 08:33:12 pm
Actually, the on-screen menu is the next step we are beginning to work on.

It will probably consist of two rows of buttons along the bottom of the screen, to the right of the tactical radar (minimap).

that sounds cool.  makes it more rts-ish.  and good for you guys making an rts out of the freespace engine.  i doubt there's too many projects like this with any fps engine.

Another question: are you using the models from the FS2 vps?  and if so, will one be able to run with HTL or will that be too slow?
What about gameplay?  Will you follow orders from command or will you be in total control of your objectives?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on March 25, 2008, 08:56:05 pm
As for gameplay, that is still not decided.

As for graphics... let's just say that trying to have two Molochs, an Orion, a non-HTL Ravana, three Hatshepsuts, a Deimos, an Aeolus, and a Lilith, as well as several fighters, and the cool nebulae backdrops... (mediavps 3.6.8 stuff, that is)... on my computer gets about 5 fps. We are considering changing the lods, or maybe just using certain aspects of the mediavps that we like (that is, making our own vp). I believe that for doing this, iot would effectively include most of the effects, but not the HTL models.

Also, if he feels up to it, I've asked Hellstryker to make a certain alien warship from another game universe, just for fun. Assuming Blizzard doesn't send a cease and desist (and I doubt they would, considering we'd only be using one fan-made model), we might throw it in just for fun.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Ryan on March 25, 2008, 09:26:40 pm
This looks fun! Any release date?

suggestion:

A piloting mode. You take control of one of your fighters and join the field of combat! Wouldn't that be fun? You could help bomb enemy capships or attack fighters!
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Droid803 on March 25, 2008, 10:00:30 pm
Errr...play normal FS2 for that?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Jake2447 on March 25, 2008, 10:02:27 pm
Errr...play normal FS2 for that?

So it shouldn't be too hard to include in this mod. :p
I don't know, it could be a good idea.  Add a new dynamic feature to RTS.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Droid803 on March 25, 2008, 10:37:15 pm
Uh...I wouldn't say that.
They're basically rewriting the UI for this...and you're telling them to add the old one back in, and have it work smoothly (and somehow make it playable on both, while maintaining difficulty/balance) through transition?
 :wtf:

I wouldn't know how much the baseline code has deviated, but from experience, you change one thing to do something else, it won't necessarily mean that it will be easy to make it do both. Actually, its probably harder than starting from scratch... Anyhow, it will push back the release...and add (unnecessary) work. I say, unless its so easy it's like "Ok, we'll add this in right now, and it'll work", no need.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on March 26, 2008, 06:59:47 am
I can't wait for this, i love RTS. And why can't you just use the original 1999 ships, it's not like you're gonna be zoomed in super close  :doubt:

Also, why don't we try and set it like EaW does: Each class/type (cruiser, corvette, destroyer, etc.) has its own 'area' on the Y axis, to prevent extra collisions.

Finally, how about, like if you're zoomed out enough to not clearly see ships, why don't we make it so that the FS2 briefing icons appear over ships to aid in visibility?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on March 26, 2008, 07:35:48 am
just finished coding in the button system. its pretty awesome and dynamic. you can add buttons to your heart's content.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Jake2447 on March 26, 2008, 07:51:37 am
just finished coding in the button system. its pretty awesome and dynamic. you can add buttons to your heart's content.

are you saying the interface is customizable by the user while playing?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on March 26, 2008, 10:48:57 am
No.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on March 26, 2008, 11:46:58 am
then what does nuke mean?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Polpolion on March 26, 2008, 02:38:11 pm
That it's easy to add in buttons from an external source? Like Ships and the tables?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on March 26, 2008, 05:24:27 pm
im just saying if for some reason we need to stick more buttons in, it wont be a problem. so far the game has 12 command buttons, which should be plenty. more of a ui thing.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Ryan on March 26, 2008, 10:53:51 pm
im just saying if for some reason we need to stick more buttons in, it wont be a problem. so far the game has 12 command buttons, which should be plenty. more of a ui thing.

Does that mean we can expect a release sometime soonish? Or at least a demo?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on March 26, 2008, 11:11:02 pm
I don't see how what Nuke says implies anything like that.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on March 27, 2008, 04:58:27 am
judging by my work ethic, you will all be playing the mod by 2047. :D
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on March 27, 2008, 06:57:52 am
correction: 2335  :D
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Ryan on March 27, 2008, 04:00:52 pm
judging by my work ethic, you will all be playing the mod by 2047. :D

So your aiming for a release alongside BWO?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Jeff Vader on March 27, 2008, 04:02:03 pm
judging by my work ethic, you will all be playing the mod by 2047. :D

So your aiming for a release alongside BWO?
Meh. They'd still beat Duke Nukem Forever.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on March 27, 2008, 04:04:54 pm
Which inherently will take forever to come out :)

Seriously, though: although Nuke may not have much of a work ethic, he does seem to be particularly into FreeSpace modding, and although I also have no work ethic when it comes to work, I work hard on games and such things, so there is a chance it'll come out in some reasonable amount of time.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on March 27, 2008, 07:11:41 pm
lolz, funny conversation with teachers bout work ethic today:

Teacher: i'm upset with your work ethic.
Me: what work ethic?
Teacher: exactly
Me: oh...

but that teacher is also one of those phsyco- give out worksheets before you can even start on the last set.

anyways, can't wait for this mod. i was playing RTS before i played blues clues and stuff.  :)
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Jeff Vader on March 28, 2008, 09:22:02 am
lolz, funny conversation with teachers bout work ethic today:

Teacher: i'm upset with your work ethic.
Me: what work ethic?
Teacher: exactly
Me: oh...
Hmm. Pretty standard in this world.

- "Hey, you! I'd like to have a word with you."
- "Wha? I haven't done anything!"
- "Exactly."
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on March 28, 2008, 01:09:36 pm
heh.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on March 29, 2008, 04:46:04 am
my problem is i have too many hobbies. and i tend to do the one i feel like at the time. cept on days i do real work (the kind you get paid for) i usually just crash in front of the idiot box.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on May 18, 2008, 08:52:34 pm
I don't give a flying pig's ass how long it's been since this thread was last posted in!

@NUKE: Get off your lazy butt and figure out how to optimize this! I'd like to be able to play with a decent framerate AND HTL models! Also get cracking on those buttons!

@Everyone else: Let's hope Nuke gets off his lazy butt and what I said.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Mars on May 18, 2008, 11:45:18 pm
Best of luck
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on May 19, 2008, 02:31:16 am
awww, but i was looking at power tools, you meanie :D
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on May 19, 2008, 06:53:35 am
DO IT nuke, and the community would be very happy. They might even.... dangit, i've got nothing...
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on May 19, 2008, 06:55:09 am
Buy him some a power tools?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Jake2447 on August 21, 2008, 10:22:55 pm
I know this is a huge bump, butid really like to see this get some sort of a release.
Any progress nuke?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: blowfish on August 22, 2008, 01:12:38 am
I know this is a huge bump, butid really like to see this get some sort of a release.
Any progress nuke?

Last I heard, no.  IIRC Nuke has been busy and Aardwolf ... not sure what happened to him.  Maybe he just stopped working because Nuke stopped working.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Jake2447 on August 22, 2008, 07:29:22 am
I know this is a huge bump, butid really like to see this get some sort of a release.
Any progress nuke?

Last I heard, no.  IIRC Nuke has been busy and Aardwolf ... not sure what happened to him.  Maybe he just stopped working because Nuke stopped working.

well that sucks
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on August 23, 2008, 03:23:58 am
meh, im a procrastinator
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: james777 on August 23, 2008, 11:44:35 am
This looks good.  :)
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on August 26, 2008, 06:09:44 am
What? blowfish actually right about something?

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I stopped because Nuke stopped.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: protroll on September 02, 2008, 08:47:36 am
This sounds promising, just wonder why either or both of you stopped, it's due to lack of interest or missing feature in FS2 script system?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on September 02, 2008, 11:26:02 am
Nke is too lazy  :P
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: BengalTiger on September 02, 2008, 02:55:27 pm
Press the red button and he should get back to work...
explosively.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on September 26, 2008, 02:40:00 pm
 :bump:


GET BACK TO WORK!  :P
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: shiv on September 26, 2008, 03:19:44 pm
We all would love to see playable beta :yes:
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on September 26, 2008, 04:00:54 pm
BTW, would this be moddable?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Droid803 on September 26, 2008, 04:04:01 pm
Most likely.
They do have to finish it first though. :lol:
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: shiv on September 26, 2008, 04:04:11 pm
BTW, would this be moddable?
I thought that answer is obvious... look at the board description/title :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on September 26, 2008, 04:05:31 pm
:facepalm:
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on September 26, 2008, 04:36:17 pm
BTW, would this be moddable?
I thought that answer is obvious... look at the board description/title :rolleyes:

Uh... no. It would probably be moddable, but no. The RTS is the mod that got this thread put here and not somewhere else, not the potential mods thereof.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Marcusqc on September 29, 2008, 09:26:30 pm
I'm searching data on freespace mod and find that   :lol: http://www.sectorgame.com/FSCZ/ (http://www.sectorgame.com/FSCZ/)
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on September 30, 2008, 02:14:26 am
I seem to remember one of the nodewars was going to use the FS2 engine to simulate battles, but basically it was going to be (pretty much) a turn based strategy-type game with FreeSpace 2 gameplay (i.e. you fly a fighter, and maybe use the comm menu to boss around ships)... perhaps this is related?

I had a thought just now, that maybe instead of prodding Nuke (and by extension me), we (read "I") could find out whether Nuke would mind expanding the team slightly (possibly one or two more members, probably doing mostly coding). That would, however, require better management of the code... all of the work that Nuke and I did on this project was either taking turns with the files or confirming the other guy wasn't working with a particular block of code, fiddling with it, and sending that block to the other guy. That probably wouldn't work so well with 3-4 people.

I'll try to find out what he thinks of the idea sometime today or in the next few days. I do not want to have people asking to join the team before Nuke gives his feedback on this... and I probably don't want to have people asking to join anyway (I'll probably do something like getting people I know to nominate/vote for someone other than themselves, or something sneaky like that).
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: azile0 on November 18, 2008, 04:53:45 pm
How about a FPS version of Freespace?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on November 18, 2008, 05:02:15 pm
Why did you bump this?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on November 18, 2008, 05:21:16 pm
so, does this mean the mods alive?  :p
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: blowfish on November 18, 2008, 07:07:17 pm
:doubt:
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Angelus on November 18, 2008, 07:40:28 pm
Isn't there a (Online??) game that allows you to play RTS style with FS2 Ships?

Have to find that link...
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Droid803 on November 18, 2008, 07:48:06 pm
You mean the FreeSpace mod for Homeworld?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: StarSlayer on November 18, 2008, 10:18:30 pm
Actually after nosing about through the thread it might be a neat trick to modify Fred be able to run a battle simulation.  Granted it would be difficult to accurately gauge the player impact during a sim, on the other hand it would probably allow the mission designer to view the overall effectiveness of the non player assets more easily then say running the mission and having to fart around in a invulnerable fighter trying to see what happens.  You could tell right off if Orion TF 1 following waypoints A, B, C is going to be effective or not.   Maybe its a silly idea, but it strikes me as a possibly useful feature for mission design if it were possible.


 Disregard the goofy ideas above, i discussed it with Axem and he convinced me it doesn't really add any real utility to mission design :P
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on January 01, 2009, 05:22:25 am
 :bump:

Nuke and I were talking about the prospects of this mod yesterday and a little this morning.

Among other things, we talked about how we could manage the code more conveniently, taking into account the on-and-off nature of our past work on it. The idea of using SVN came up, and as an alternative to copying and pasting blocks of code over IM or using an online paste site, that sounds pretty good.

He also suggested simply posting changes in a topic on HLP. I don't particularly want to do that, because then the entire mod would effectively be open to everyone. I don't mean to say that we want to keep it to ourselves, but the project wouldn't really get much benefit from that openness aside from testing. It'd probably also mean more work explaining stuff to people who can't get it to work. That'd be too much of a hassle.

I'm still trying to figure out how well we agree on things, particularly on having other people contributing to the project. If we agree that we should get other people working on this too (and I can't guarantee we will) I may try to get a forum [board] on one of the big FreeSpace-related sites (game-warden, sectorgame, freespacemods, or maybe HLP (but I doubt the Admins will want it considering the rate of progress so far)).

Note that we haven't really decided anything at this point. We still need to think about it some more, and see how much support we would get on this.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on January 01, 2009, 05:27:58 am
yea im being totally undecisive about the whole thing atm.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Grimper on January 01, 2009, 07:02:47 am
Actually after nosing about through the thread it might be a neat trick to modify Fred be able to run a battle simulation.  Granted it would be difficult to accurately gauge the player impact during a sim, on the other hand it would probably allow the mission designer to view the overall effectiveness of the non player assets more easily then say running the mission and having to fart around in a invulnerable fighter trying to see what happens.  You could tell right off if Orion TF 1 following waypoints A, B, C is going to be effective or not.   Maybe its a silly idea, but it strikes me as a possibly useful feature for mission design if it were possible.


 Disregard the goofy ideas above, i discussed it with Axem and he convinced me it doesn't really add any real utility to mission design :P

Eh what are you talking about? That would be a great idea because you could see battle not involving the player. If you want capships to duke it out or something like that, you need to make sure they don't kill each other too quickly or hit subsystems they shouldn't. All those tiny little details you normally have to load up FS for, you could just do in FRED.

And in regards to the RTS, could you give us another video showing the buttons and selection and stuff like that?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on January 01, 2009, 08:54:07 am
probibly, easy enough to fraps, but i dont want to do it
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Grimper on January 02, 2009, 05:59:23 am
Aw why not?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on January 04, 2009, 12:27:36 am
Hey,

Following the suggestion to release another video, I decided to make that fancy background I posted in some other thread, and also to do some general testing of the mod. Unfortunately, it seems there are some speed issues that I didn't realize were present the last time I did anything with it. While the screenshots are pretty and all that, I don't think that a video would be very fun to look at -- especially when you factor in how Fraps makes FS2 lag when recording stuff that isn't normally slow.

Anyway, we are (or at least I am) thinking about making some rather big changes to the mod, like doing some things with the engine itself rather than the external scripting system. When I get a chance, I'm going to talk to WMCoolmon (or simply post in the Scripting board) about what would be necessary for some of the things we want to do.

We also need to do some more planning, if necessary rethinking things from the ground up--suffice to say, we didn't really do a very good job of that in the beginning. Since we have the current scripts and files backed up in at least two places now, we'll be able to revert any changes which might accidentally mess stuff up, and we'll be able to look at them for reference.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on January 04, 2009, 09:12:51 am
my quad core can handle it im sure. this might be something i can work on today
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on January 07, 2009, 07:26:44 pm
If anyone is interested in helping the RTS mod by making 2D interface art, let us know. More details will come when we figure out what we need and how badly we need it.

At present, this means action buttons, with two states -- normal, and pressed (and possibly a third for mouseover).

Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on January 08, 2009, 10:32:42 am
:bump:

We now have a forum (http://www.freespacemods.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=515)
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Grimper on January 12, 2009, 01:30:29 am
It died.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on January 12, 2009, 07:22:51 am
It died? What died?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Grimper on January 14, 2009, 02:36:32 am
The forum. It's back up now.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: blowfish on January 14, 2009, 09:43:02 am
The Freespacemods forum was down for maintenance I think.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: DeepSpace9er on January 18, 2009, 05:09:23 pm
This idea/ concept looks so awesome. I'm picturing something along the lines of a mix between Empire at War and Sins of a Solar Empire.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Titan on January 18, 2009, 05:30:13 pm
really?

no offense, but i was picturing a slight modification of the game's existing orders system. And nothing more, save a new interface
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on January 19, 2009, 11:32:11 am
This idea/ concept looks so awesome. I'm picturing something along the lines of a mix between Empire at War and Sins of a Solar Empire.

Out of those two, (if my memory serves me) it is much closer to Empire at War.

i was picturing a slight modification of the game's existing orders system

The problem is the existing order system doesn't have really good support for some of the stuff we need to do... terrible for other kinds of things.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on June 01, 2009, 05:40:55 pm
:bump:

Still alive. We have done some major cleanup of the scripts. Well, I have anyway; Nuke's hasn't been doing much on this recently. Although there aren't too many superficial changes, it is running a lot nicer under the hood, so to speak. I've also been paving the way for a proper button interface. The version on the SVN even has working buttons (but they aren't set up to do anything yet).

Somehow I neglected to post this here; we've got a site, thanks to the guy running freespacemods.net, swantz aka achtung. It can be found here: http://rts.fsmods.net/

I've been posting primarily in the Development Blag 2.0 (http://www.freespacemods.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=515&t=171) thread on the mod's forum, instead of in here. If you look there, you can find more up-to-date info on the status of the mod.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 01, 2009, 05:53:23 pm
You mean the FreeSpace mod for Homeworld?
Or Sins.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: General Battuta on June 01, 2009, 08:33:23 pm
If you guys do come up with any improvements to the order system, I bet a bunch of FREDders would be salivating to try them out in 'regular', first-person FS2.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Krackers87 on June 02, 2009, 06:27:07 am
You mean the FreeSpace mod for Homeworld?
Or Sins.
Someone should pick the HW2 FS mod back up, thats already RTS and it was pretty fun last time i played it, even in its half finished state, unless the aim is for a less outdated engine (prepare for homeworld 3 perhaps? :p )
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 02, 2009, 02:10:29 pm
I meant Sins of a Solar Empire, the game is much more cunducive to FS gameplay.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Droid803 on June 02, 2009, 04:04:58 pm
The only FS mod for Sins is FS1.
No beams.
BOOOORRRING.

It also crashes on me.
Title: Re: FreeSpace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on June 03, 2009, 04:27:42 pm
The only FS mod for Sins is FS1.
No beams.
BOOOORRRING.

It also crashes on me.

Actually, the Shivans have red beams for some stupid reason. Also, you need to manually patch SoaSE to the recent version, or it will crash upon enabling the mod.

Anyway, no progress on this project since last time.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Droid803 on June 03, 2009, 05:31:38 pm
You can't manually patch sins to the newest version. You need to download if off Impulse and it'll autoinstall.
And I've played as the Shivans - never saw a beam.
Title: Re: FreeSpace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on June 03, 2009, 08:46:34 pm
Oh... maybe I had it backwards. But the Shivans definitely had beams. Lilith and Demon, I think, had 'em.

Anyway, back on topic!!!! The FreeSpace in FreeSpace RTS Mod (not to be confused with the FreeSpace in Sins or FreeSpace in Homeworld 2 mods)

Edit (rather than double-posting): I've made a prettier-looking version of the mod's site. For now, it's at A Different URL (http://rts.fsmods.net/index-alt.html), but once I've made sure there's no bugs with it, I'll replace the main index page with this one.
Title: Re: FreeSpace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on July 01, 2009, 07:15:07 am
:bump:

So, the mod is at a point where we need to do make flowcharts. That is, we need to plan ahead a bit, how the UI will work. "The E" has offered his help, and I obviously am going to want a part in it. I'll probably be creating a new topic on the RTS forum about this shortly.

Not much work has been going on recently, though. I got distracted by a number of other things (including school).
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on July 07, 2009, 10:26:04 am
Okay forget about flowcharts.

Basically, we need some interface art people, to make stuff like:


Also, some more people with scripting talents would be welcome.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Jake2447 on July 07, 2009, 11:03:52 am
Are buttons going to be 3d objects or just images?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on July 07, 2009, 03:00:10 pm
The plan right now is for them to be just images, drawn in the correct place so that they look like they're "on" the surface of the 3d control panel.

I've already made a decent 'template' button, which is drawn in every slot where a button can go (there is room for 10 buttons, in 2 rows of 5). It has a normal, mouse-over, and pressed appearance. Then, each actual action would have an icon that goes with it.

The icons would have two states: a 'valid' and 'invalid' state. The valid icon is drawn when the action is actually doable, whereas the 'invalid' state will appear if the action is applicable for the ships you have selected, but cannot be executed for some reason, er go if one or more of the ships you have selected are jump-capable, but none of them have their jump drives charged, you'd see the 'invalid' version. Basically, this would be a grayscale copy of the normal icon. However, because of the way the icons are drawn, they need to have proper alpha-channels (transparency), and it seems like the grayscale version will have to be darker and less opaque overall.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Jake2447 on July 07, 2009, 08:04:00 pm
The plan right now is for them to be just images, drawn in the correct place so that they look like they're "on" the surface of the 3d control panel.

I've already made a decent 'template' button, which is drawn in every slot where a button can go (there is room for 10 buttons, in 2 rows of 5). It has a normal, mouse-over, and pressed appearance. Then, each actual action would have an icon that goes with it.

The icons would have two states: a 'valid' and 'invalid' state. The valid icon is drawn when the action is actually doable, whereas the 'invalid' state will appear if the action is applicable for the ships you have selected, but cannot be executed for some reason, er go if one or more of the ships you have selected are jump-capable, but none of them have their jump drives charged, you'd see the 'invalid' version. Basically, this would be a grayscale copy of the normal icon. However, because of the way the icons are drawn, they need to have proper alpha-channels (transparency), and it seems like the grayscale version will have to be darker and less opaque overall.

I have an idea of "holographic" style buttons.  The buttons would be transparent except for a bright color (such as the default green color for the fs2 hud), if you could work out an animation they could grow when the mouse hovers over it, and then when pressed it would change color.

Not sure if that is the style you had in mind though.

EDIT: Quick example I made in about 2 minutes in GIMP

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8624/gobutton.png) (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/gobutton.png/)

Obviously a final version could have more effects with transparency or a glassy appearance...
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on July 23, 2009, 10:36:36 pm
Oops, I didn't see your reply.

We're probably just going to stick to two versions of the images, one grayed out and one normal. The shape of the button is (at least right now) stored in a separate image, which has mouseover and mouse-click versions. That much is working. So that sort of square outline would be unnecessary.

I think we'll want to keep it fairly simple. Consider the sort of button images for unit actions in StarCraft, for example.

I can't easily come up with a complete list of all the buttons we might need, but... here's a list of some of the ones that come to mind:


Move and attack actions don't necessarily conflict with each other for warships, so they might need to be independently assignable and cancellable.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Droid803 on July 23, 2009, 10:38:50 pm
Attack Move? It's a fairly often used command in RTSes. At least for me...
ie. A fighter wing will move to a designated point but will break off and attack anything hostile that it picks up along the way, instead of a plain move order which means "ignore the **** and go there NAO."
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on July 23, 2009, 10:40:12 pm
I can't really visualize a definite way it would work.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Droid803 on July 23, 2009, 10:41:20 pm
Well, the way the engine is now, if you tell a fighter to do waypoints, they'll basically attack move already.
It's more of making the 'move' command have the ship moving ignore targets that it can't shoot with its turrets (if it has any) without straying from the path.

'tis for micro.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on July 24, 2009, 06:34:41 pm
Really? I figured missions like that (er go Mystery of the Trinity) cleared the orders when hostiles showed up, and then gave them again when it was time to fight. But I haven't looked into it in much depth...
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: bobbtmann on July 26, 2009, 03:35:54 pm
Really? I figured missions like that (er go Mystery of the Trinity) cleared the orders when hostiles showed up, and then gave them again when it was time to fight. But I haven't looked into it in much depth...

Probably not important, but could you enlighten me on your meaning of "er go"? You've used this couple of times in this thread and it's throwing me off.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Droid803 on July 26, 2009, 03:38:57 pm
eg.

you know, example.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 26, 2009, 04:25:14 pm
I reckon an ignore hostiles toggle sexp could be the answer. Or script whatever fits your design more coherently.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on July 26, 2009, 04:25:29 pm
Yeah, it's the spelled out form of e.g. It's Latin for ... something. Likewise, id est is spelled out form of i.e. (which is Latin for "that is").

I just like spelling them out to annoy/edumacate ignorant people.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: bobbtmann on July 26, 2009, 05:21:19 pm
Well then, let's edumacate those ignorant people. Ergo (not er go) is latin for "therefore". I think therefore I am. Cogito, ergo sum.

E.g. is short for exempli gratia. Or, according to www.tiscali.co.uk,  for sake of an example.

I'm not trying to put anyone down, but I've always found that fancy terms usually mess people up.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on July 26, 2009, 05:33:10 pm
Really? Damn.

That's even longer than saying "for example"
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: General Battuta on July 26, 2009, 05:53:48 pm
Yep, e.g. is not ergo.

I just like spelling them out to annoy/edumacate ignorant people.

Need any dressing for that bullet wound in your foot?  :p
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on July 26, 2009, 09:41:56 pm
Oil and vinegar, please.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on September 28, 2009, 12:40:28 am
:bump:

New demo. No new gameplay features in this one, but it no longer relies on a bundled .exe file any more---a recent nightly build should work fine. Also, some UI/input work has been done since the last one.



Edit:

The website, as before, is at http://rts.fsmods.net/
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Desertfox287 on December 01, 2009, 05:29:03 pm
Seems promising, and it is quite an intriguing idea, and it seems to be being carried out in a good manner. Nice work and the best wishes towards your success.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 02, 2009, 01:56:29 pm
Will a recent fred build be able to open the missions?
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Aardwolf on December 02, 2009, 06:32:05 pm
The released versions of the RTS Mod do not extensively rely on advanced mission features.

In fact, there's only one included mission. It sucks. That might be something to change in future releases.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Grimper on January 25, 2010, 11:46:08 pm
Ok know this is a slight necro...but we needa draw more attention here. I think Aard you should have some sort of representation here at Hard-Light other than just this single thread, which tends to get buried quickly. The freespace mod forums really don't have enough traffic to get people interested in this project, or for you to get helpers if you need them. It would be best if you could have your own board here...even if it's not used much, it would be just to let people know this project exists.

Also it's a better source of motivation if you have a lot of people hounding you for updates :P
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Spoon on January 26, 2010, 04:42:28 am
Believe me, if there is an update, Aardwolf will be the first to let us all know (Repeatedly) in the irc channel...
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Grimper on January 26, 2010, 09:58:40 pm
Yeh but the majority of us don't use IRC...only the 'inner circle' so to speak.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 27, 2010, 02:20:13 am
I don't use a magic IRC program. I use the link from HLP to chat in my browser of choice.
 
 
It saves a load of hassle.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on January 27, 2010, 03:48:58 pm
i just use pidgin
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: woundedkarma on November 20, 2010, 09:50:01 am
Wondered if this was still being worked on.

I loved fs2, best space game ever made although tie fighter is close behind.

The game I really want to see is something similar to silent death online but with a mix sdo gameplay and rts.  I can't imagine a better engine than fs2 especially with the upgrades that have been added.

Curious if this project is still going, did you guys ever consider it? :>  Cap ships that are rts.. mixed with fighters that are 2d action oriented.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on November 20, 2010, 10:16:32 am
:lol:

nuke? finish a mod?

:lol:

but seriously nukemod is my current priority and i hardly even touch that, maybe if i could put my arduino down for 15 minutes.
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Grimper on February 15, 2011, 09:40:32 am
Has this project been made defunct by some of the newer ones (homeworld thingy...nexus), or still going? o.o
Title: Re: Freespace RTS Mod
Post by: Nuke on February 15, 2011, 10:02:11 am
its still on svn if thats what you mean. put it up in hopes of drawing in more scripters but between aardwolf's busy and my crazy, it aint getting done.
i certainly dont have the login to the svn server though, but i keep a copy of the latest code on file.

we were also encountering some technical limitations that were for the most part crippling the mod.