Hard Light Productions Forums
FreeSpace Releases => Asset Releases => Topic started by: qazwsx on September 23, 2015, 01:05:52 pm
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Earth Defense is a mod for Freespace that has been in development for over 7 years. Since 2008 some fantastic music and models have been produced. However, progress has slown to a crawl. It has been over a year since the last SVN commit and I can't see the situation getting any better.
A consultation among members of the team back in April resulted in a 3-1 vote in favor of asset release, however nothing was done. Since then there has not been a single post in ED's internal forum.
Due to this inactivity, I have made the decision to dump the entire ED SVN repository. Model and music exclusivity does nothing but harm modding communites, and I don't want to see the assets in ED wasted.
[link removed; see post below - G5K]
Update:
New upload with mystery project assets removed
http://www.freespacemods.net/download.php?view.928
Enjoy.
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A real pity to see another dead megaproject. :(
Still, thanks for sharing this stuff with the community! I'm sure Earth Defense's legacy will live on in its assets! :yes:
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Meh. Call me a pessimist or whatever... but the fewer stagnant "megaprojects" we have around here sucking up talent the better.
Other than BP, how many "megaprojects" actually made release? Inferno maaaaaaaybe counts, but not anything in years. In general, it really seems that mega mods are where content goes to die or live in purgatory.
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Diaspora, TBP and WCS did okay. But it seems like a bad model for producing FreeSpace campaigns.
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Don't forget WOD! :) Not a giant megaproject like the others, but definitely on a larger scale than a typical mod.
Maybe somebody will pick it up. Exclusivity is not good, but this will also open doors to someone to step up and try to revive the project.
Though I noticed that activity on HLP in general is not what it once was. There were times when you could expect multiple new posts in the modding board per day, threads also rolled off the front page fairly quickly. There was some movement in nearly every active project. It seems that sometime during my big bout of inactivity, it stopped and now it's more like a few posts per week in modding and project boards went all but silent.
Maybe KSP is to blame? :) Actually easier to mod than FS, more realistic and very fun. Seen quite a few people from here on their forums, I also mostly stopped modding FS in favor of KSP. People who did story-heavy stuff started writing books (myself included, though I didn't finish anything big yet). I still do occasional testing and I'm happy to try out anything new that does come out, but I don't play nearly as much as I used to.
Ironically, Inferno is one of the few megaprojects besides BP where things still seem to be happening, although not nearly at a pace they used to. Also, if you count extra-FS TCs, then there's Diaspora and WCS (the former seems to be still going, the latter I dunno). I have high hopes for FoTG as well.
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Diaspora, TBP and WCS did okay. But it seems like a bad model for producing FreeSpace campaigns.
Haha, perhaps I don't think of those as "megaprojects" because they actually released something. :p
Honestly, I think the existence of these huge projects has been a bit of a deterrent for some new modders. "I can't ever make anything like that" syndrome.
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Have you asked Betrayal on his opinion on this decision?
The project was frozen, not closed.
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I suspect Betrayal was the 1 dissenting vote.
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Must talk with him then :P We're in touch despite his absence on forum.
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Have you asked Betrayal on his opinion on this decision?
no
I suspect Betrayal was the 1 dissenting vote.
correct
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That and with 16 downloads currently of a full SVN dump.. it's too late. The story is out. The assets are out. Mod creators are already picking through the dump to find things to use and add to their projects.
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Not that I'm complaining or something ;). I looked through the entire content when I visited Betrayal last time. Just a bit surprised.
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Well, the music is certainly going to my playlist. :) Really, stuff this good shouldn't have been kept under wraps for this long. This music is awesome.
As for the rest, well, only a few models are unique (and most of those are out already). Some awesome nebula lightning. Great bitmaps, though most not unique (Nighteyes' stuff, always the best). Good interface, though reusing that might be though. Great HUD, judging from the screenshots, at least (can't check .ani files right now). High quality CB anims and even a few movies. CB anims, at least use the old Raynor, though, so they're only of use to those who don't want to switch to Aesar's new model. There's a nice one with Sath fleet and a fairly generic one with Sol Gate, I suppose usable by anyone using that model. Great skyboxes and backgrounds.
I have to say, that could've been an awesome mod. Some assets are not top of the line, but the overall quality is very good.
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Have you asked Betrayal on his opinion on this decision?
no
I suspect Betrayal was the 1 dissenting vote.
correct
Incorrect. I voted all the stuff we have to be released and we made a public dump some time ago. I was also one of the team members who convinced Shiv that we should release models, nebulae and other things.
All the stuff that this package contains, and wasn't released before were exclusive because original authors are inactive anymore like Lukasz, Nighteyes, PeterV, Moonred and probably others. Also I never agreed to release some of the stuff that I prepared for other mod, and let ED use it including current Arashi model [Orion-like] or shivan SF Eblis or SC Daeva.
Sorry guys, but it's not my fault. I'm only responsible for the rest of the unreleased stuff. As I never recived any directions from original authors or Shiv, interface, cbanims, hud graphics and missions should not be used till original authors say so. I can only say that I can make proper re-release of ED assets, including fixed models, addonital nebulae, sound archives and probably other stuff. I don't want rest of the ED modpack to be somekind of super-exclusive assets of a dead project. Just respect the original authors, who never expressed their opinions about releasing their work.
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Incorrect. I voted all the stuff we have to be released and we made a public dump some time ago. I was also one of the team members who convinced Shiv that we should release models, nebulae and other things.
All the stuff that this package contains, and wasn't released before were exclusive because original authors are inactive anymore like Lukasz, Nighteyes, PeterV, Moonred and probably others. Also I never agreed to release some of the stuff that I prepared for other mod, and let ED use it including current Arashi model [Orion-like] or shivan SF Eblis or SC Daeva.
Sorry guys, but it's not my fault. I'm only responsible for the rest of the unreleased stuff. As I never recived any directions from original authors or Shiv, interface, cbanims, hud graphics and missions should not be used till original authors say so. I can only say that I can make proper re-release of ED assets, including fixed models, addonital nebulae, sound archives and probably other stuff. I don't want rest of the ED modpack to be somekind of super-exclusive assets of a dead project. Just respect the original authors, who never expressed their opinions about releasing their work.
same
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I've removed the link on the request of a PM. I don't know the full story behind the release, but with any dissenting votes, it's better to protect the integrity of the mod until everyone is on the same page.
Of course, as mjn.mixael said, the cat is kind of out of the bag now that the link has been posted. (Additionally, neither I nor HLP have control over the site that the download is hosted on.)
I recommend the ED team discuss this internally, with dissenting members given a chance to make their case, until all parties are satisfied or until the project leader can make a final decision.
And for third-party observers, this is a good example of the importance of having a project asset policy, as karajorma has pointed out in the past. :)
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I don't think ED has an active project leader. Shiv resigned (?) and both Snail and Tantalus vanished.
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will send anyone the link who PMs me for it
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Just realised that this dump contained some unique stuff meant not only for ED but also for Mystery Project :mad2:
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ED internal:
Sorry for late response. Too much real life issues.
New Arashi, SF Eblis and SC Daeva were made for my non-ED project. The Mystery Project. I later decided to include them in ED. I discussed it with Shiv as we were the only team members still active this moment.
If these ships were removed from the dump, then would there be an issue with releasing the rest?
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Nope :P
You decided to release Ed stuff, I'm okay with that. But these assets are currently included to the project which is on the roll. Leaking them now will be problematic.
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Nope :P
You decided to release Ed stuff, I'm okay with that. But these assets are currently included to the project which is on the roll. Leaking them now will be problematic.
Really? A few models suddenly accessible publicly will be truly problematic for your mod? I find that hard to believe, but whatever.
Also why are we talking future tense? The dump was downloaded 30 times. Any damage to be done has been done. I really doubt anyone who someday plays your "mystery project" and sees those models is going to think "hey! I was cheated! Those models were in the ED dump!"
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Really? A few models suddenly accessible publicly will be truly problematic for your mod? I find that hard to believe, but whatever.
I've said it before, but as far as I can tell no campaign in the history of HLP has ever achieved any particular success or attention on the strength of its models or assets.
Exclusive ships seems to be a really good way to get people excited to pillage your modpack, but not a good way to get people excited about your campaign.
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Any mod that has to hold itself up by exclusive models more than likely has severe problems elsewhere in the mod that should be looked at before a couple of already-leaked meshes become an issue for it.
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Exclusive ships seems to be a really good way to get people excited to pillage your modpack, but not a good way to get people excited about your campaign.
This is very true.
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That might have worked for Blue Planet with the use of the community assets and is a great example that you don't need to create exclusive assets to create a good mod, but you could hardly have WoD or WCS or TBP without their assets. Maybe WoD could have been slapped together with community assets, but it would hardly be the same, not by a long shot. It would take a big hit. Right now it's like you're saying there's basically no point to bother with creating new ships. :confused:
Frontlines makes use of a very few new ships, but they're hardly something to be relying on. They just add something to the overall package.
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Exclusive != new. Creation of new ships is very encouraged, keeping them exclusively for your mod for years until said mod is released is not. Mod creator is still entitled to do whatever.
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I'm just looking at the way this dump was done, and while it is great that this stuff will go to the community, and Dragon seems to think there's a variety of good stuff to be had in this dump, it just seems really sad to me the way it's happened. With obvious communication issues / lack of communication between the team. It's obviously sad that a project has failed, but the part that seems really sad to me is that it's just been thrown out like this, almost unceremoniously. If this is the culmination of 7 years work, it's something that seems to me that should have been presented to the community. Talked about in detail with pride and shown off. Maybe released in a number of segments. Apart from what Dragon said, I basically have no idea what's in this dump. But it sounds like there's plenty in there to be proud of and it's just been thrown out like this.
Exclusive != new. Creation of new ships is very encouraged, keeping them exclusively for your mod for years until said mod is released is not. Mod creator is still entitled to do whatever.
Yeah, I can basically agree with that. Thanks. There would be times when it would certainly be understandable to want to hold something back though. It's tough.
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I think the issue here is that the mod is so dead that a good portion of the original content creators have vanished at this point, and that the few remaining active members don't even have that good of an idea who is still around. Sounds like what ended up happening here.
It's not ceremonious, but because the decision of what to do was left for so long, there's not many people left to actually discuss? That seemed to be the root of the issue here. Basically,
this is a good example of the importance of having a project asset policy
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Yes, it would appear so. I wonder if there's anything that could be learned about where this project went wrong (and maybe where it went right!) that could potentially be of help to others in the future.
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The real lesson here seems to be what karajorma et al. have proposed in the past, having mod teams use Creative Commons or a similar license for all of their produced content. That way if the mod does wind up falling apart, permission to release any of the involved assets should have already been settled from the start.
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The real real bottom line lesson here is if a project doesn't FRED it dies. ED had everything except for a lead mission designer/mission design team with the authority to make the missions stick (instead of endlessly redesigning and iterating).
There was no reason this campaign couldn't have been out a couple years ago, all the hard parts were done...except the hard part that is at the core of a campaign.
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The real real bottom line lesson here is if a project doesn't FRED it dies.
:nod:
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Which really adds more weight to the idea of exclusive assets being any sort of make or break for a mod. You can have all the exclusives you want, but if you don't have missions or if your missions are piss, then who cares about your mod? People will just download it to raid it for assets and call it a day. Spend more time on missions and less time on hoarding things. Hell, release those fancy models to generate some early interest in your mod like Scroll has started doing!
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That might have worked for Blue Planet with the use of the community assets and is a great example that you don't need to create exclusive assets to create a good mod, but you could hardly have WoD or WCS or TBP without their assets. Maybe WoD could have been slapped together with community assets, but it would hardly be the same, not by a long shot. It would take a big hit. Right now it's like you're saying there's basically no point to bother with creating new ships. :confused:
Notice that all examples you quoted were total conversions, with a very different feel than FS. If you're making a TC, exclusive assets make a bit more sense. Diaspora or WCS models aren't going to appear in an FS mod anytime soon, they'd look very jarring if they did (especially to those familiar with the BSG and WC). Some people reused TBP stuff, but that's simply because it's been around for so long (well, that and the fact it has a wealth of non-B5 specific FX, the only mod with that many unique sounds and bitmaps back in the day).
As for WoD, I'd like to present a counterexample: Dimensional Eclipse. Similar feeling to WoD, a bit less popular maybe but with almost 100% community assets. WoD had unique art style and awesome writing, which is the true reason for its popularity. You can pull the art style off without unique models as well, as with DE. You just have to be creative with textures.
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Exclusive assets IMHO doesn't make sense, but it depends of author's will when and if he want to release it. Especialy, when this three ships I mentioned before are incomplete and require more work.
And another reason for keeping ED files unreleased is status of the whole mod. ED was never dead. It's waiting in queue, as the mod is 90% done and it's a waste of cool materials and storyline for just a random mod dump as I mentioned in November Status Update. As soon as Mystery Project is complete and released, we want... Or wanted to finish ED. My disapperance about a half of a year ago due to real life issues delayed the process... But only DELAYED not STOPPED.
Shiv left me non-official leadership, and I had plans to lead this to the end. It was the only way to publish all the stuff with original team members will... And sorry, but I don't know if it's still a freakin point in finishing ED right now.
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Exclusive assets IMHO doesn't make sense, but it depends of author's will when and if he want to release it. Especialy, when this three ships I mentioned before are incomplete and require more work.
And another reason for keeping ED files unreleased is status of the whole mod. ED was never dead. It's waiting in queue, as the mod is 90% done and it's a waste of cool materials and storyline for just a random mod dump as I mentioned in November Status Update. As soon as Mystery Project is complete and released, we want... Or wanted to finish ED. My disapperance about a half of a year ago due to real life issues delayed the process... But only DELAYED not STOPPED.
Shiv left me non-official leadership, and I had plans to lead this to the end. It was the only way to publish all the stuff with original team members will... And sorry, but I don't know if it's still a freakin point in finishing ED right now.
You are the only ED member (not counting Battuta and Qaz who to the best of my knowledge were not active members) to actually post in this thread. The mod's dead, long live the mod.
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ED suffered from a pretty serious lack of creative direction. As far as I know there was no unifying vision behind the mod except 'make FS3' 'make it look great'. The Vasudan Civil War opening was a solid start, but man, attempts to move the story past that went everywhere. Or at least that's my read on the situation.
Tantalus worked really really hard on closing down missions but the poor guy was basically on his own for a while.
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@ Betrayal
Well if you weren't intending to work on this until "Mystery Project" is complete anyway, I wouldn't worry about whether you want to continue work on this or not right now. Take stock when you've finished your other project.
If it's 90% complete, I don't know whether it's possible for you alone to pick up the project and carry it the rest of the way? Or maybe with a little help here and there? The stuff may have been leaked, but it doesn't mean you don't have to work on it. The stuff that's already out still gets used and made into things after all.
See what the situation is like after you've completed your project. Maybe some of the others who worked on this will be back and or willing to go back to it. But whatever's best for you.
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Exclusive assets IMHO doesn't make sense, but it depends of author's will when and if he want to release it. Especialy, when this three ships I mentioned before are incomplete and require more work.
And another reason for keeping ED files unreleased is status of the whole mod. ED was never dead. It's waiting in queue, as the mod is 90% done and it's a waste of cool materials and storyline for just a random mod dump as I mentioned in November Status Update. As soon as Mystery Project is complete and released, we want... Or wanted to finish ED. My disapperance about a half of a year ago due to real life issues delayed the process... But only DELAYED not STOPPED.
TBH, it would have made more sense to hold up that Mystery Project I keep hearing about. Especially if it was really "90% done". ED had much more publicity, people actually knew about it and at the same time it was lacking in activity, eventually leading to this. "On indefinite hold" is pretty much the same as "dead" in my book (and in most other peoples' books as well, AFAIK). MindGames was also on hold ("Until Kara is done with Diaspora") and look where it is now. Also, no other ED team member (as far as I know) was connected to this Mystery Project, meaning they had no reason to believe it'd ever get released, either. All we know about it is that it hold up yet more good (or at least fairly decent) assets and that it's been in dev for quite a while now.
What you can do now is to take your time with that project of yours and then restart ED at your leisure, without needing to keep good music and HUD graphics out of the community. I wouldn't worry about unique ships, there's a chance nobody will use them, as they're rather niche models (an odd Shivan ship and a Terran logistics vessel, the latter might've been released already).
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http://www.freespacemods.net/download.php?view.928
ED dump with mystery project assets removed.
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Hi i have tried to download this several times from Freespacemods and everytime my download gets to 300 meg it is download complete and then wont open. Is there another mirror for it as i have tried about 7 times to download it with no luck, also using different computers.
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I was able to successfully download the dump, but I had to use a download manager. I'd recommend DownThemAll! (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/downthemall/) for Firefox users, as it's a Firefox extension.
EDIT: Screw that, even if I download this dump using a download manager, many of the files are corrupted. Here's a list (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01hVcJFK8KEY1gzVUJ4R25qVUE/view?usp=sharing).
Can the person in charge of the ED dump please re-package this?
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You won't be able to play some missions because they contained some stuff which was removed in second upload. Mission files have not been changed since then. Inserting other ships in place of missing ship files can be a solution. But I can't tell precisely which ones could be used.
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I'm interested in using these assets from Earth Defense in my mod I'm working on, but the download seems to be stopping at between 70% to 90% before it was completed. I think the connection with the freespacemods.net server was cut off because it doesn't allow downloads of more than 1 GB on my Internet connection. Can you provide a link to an alternate mirror site for this dump?
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Was anyone else able to download this dump and extract everything from it?
If so, then why am I getting data errors on pretty much every file in the archive, except for a select few files?
How many ships from the "Mystery Project" did ED have, anyway?
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IIRC, only two or three models, not a whole lot really.
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I recommend wait till I find some time and make official, properly packed dump with addonital files from our FTP archives. I have lot of things on my head, but the official dump is definitly gonna happen.
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:bump: I, too, have been unable to download the dump. If some kind soul could split this into, say, a package with maps/models/tables and a package with music/interface, the assets could be put to better use.
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I second it, Galemp. I need them for my development of Shattered Stars and others.
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I will, but I have too much on my head currently. Stay tuned guys :P.
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Keep us posted :)
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FSmods link is dead, please fix :(
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Unless someone fixed it super quick & said nothing this link is working for me?
http://www.freespacemods.net/download.php?view.928
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...and it should be dead, until I repack it, remove buggy and unfinished content, or things that team decided to keep private.
Task that I promised to do long time ago, and as barely started o__O. Yeah, I'm on it. Thanks for reminder :P
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And when it should be ready? And I do not want anymore uninterrupted larger downloads.
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...and it should be dead, until I repack it, remove buggy and unfinished content, or things that team decided to keep private.
You took the opportunity to redact the pack when it was first released, why are you now saying that it has to be taken down again?
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Unless someone fixed it super quick & said nothing this link is working for me?
http://www.freespacemods.net/download.php?view.928
Did you manage to download the whole thing? The download crashed about 60% of the way through for me.
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...and it should be dead, until I repack it, remove buggy and unfinished content, or things that team decided to keep private.
You took the opportunity to redact the pack when it was first released, why are you now saying that it has to be taken down again?
Gotta hoard them assets. Otherwise people won't pay attention to him and will instead only care about BP. That's why his model threads don't get many replies, don't you know.
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But it's even dumber than that, he already took out the assets he wanted to hoard when the pack was released. Unless he's decided he wants to keep even more for himself.
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ef/d5/68/efd5682ebbe5c7be4ad1aeddde120e36.jpg)
First: Release of the whole ED dump was not approved by people who are responsible for the dump - the leaders [Shiv, Snail, Tantalus...]. The fact that I was probably the only active one from old team still having the assets does not authorize me to change whatever they decided. Apparently I wasn't.
Second: I owe no right to any assets in ED dump, and almost all of them were released by Nighteyes in separate downloads. Dead mirrors are my fault as well, huh? I don't have previously released download packages. The only truly exclusive and not-released thing was the Bhaal I released separately.
Third: The stuff I requested to be removed from the dump was incomplete and the most important - made by me, and not for ED. Exactly two old models Shiv actually requested from me, to be borrowed from other project. It's my choice whenever I release my stuff or if. Deal with it.
I said it should, but it won't be. The dump should be divide into smaller packages with models, planets and other stuff. The reason is one and simple - wish of leaders. Moreover one of original project leaders contacted me few months ago and requested me to keep missions and design docs, unaware of the leak. So please, spare me acts of retardness like this, or help of admin or mod will be requested. Your inner frustration is not a thing I'm gonna deal with.
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DL Link:
https://mega.nz/#!uZ4x0T4D!tOv-42Ky4V-TuvnZS3XVaSf3V1fbW5XpW69H88v5mYw
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Your inner frustration is not a thing I'm gonna deal with.
The irony slays me.
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Thanks quazzix!
lol jesus christ calm down people all I wanted was the atlantis to see if it would fit in with my fleet for my campaign because I needed a light cruiser
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Atlantis status: Beam doesn't actually fire and has too terrible a FoV, and the aesthetic doesn't fit in
Rest of the stuff: Don't know if it's actually usable honestly I've got most of the ships I need already here so everything else I just probably might look at on a whim if I need a new ship
Earth status: Defended
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(http://i.imgur.com/5HiO4me.png)
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Atlantis status: Beam doesn't actually fire and has too terrible a FoV
I have a version with a working beam. FoV is easy to set, but moot point if the aesthetic doesn't fit.
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Then how to solve it?
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Atlantis status: Beam doesn't actually fire and has too terrible a FoV
I have a version with a working beam. FoV is easy to set, but moot point if the aesthetic doesn't fit.
I have a version with new beam smiliar to main beam of HTL Bellorophon and small torpedo launcher I made for SG:R. If it's what you are pointing at, I may upload my version.
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I should have the assets somewhere around here. Probably on an old backup - haven't looked in a while! If I find them I'll let you know.
Nyct, if I find it, I'll let you know first so I can pull your assets :) I think I am still using a fair few common use models with their own unique pofs from the modpack for my own stuff, so I have no idea what exactly I was using.
Most of the buggy stuff was the missions. Most of them are actually in workable condition and with full dialogue which I rewrote a while back - certainly good enough to use for a lesson in basic FRED and might even work as the shell of a campaign. Far as I could tell from my own testing, the ships were mostly fine :)
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Everything is fine and working. Problem with missions probably come from the stuff I requested to be removed from the main dump - a pathetically converted shivan cruiser :P. Second model wasn't used anywhere. Both models were added later, when separate packages were released so they are not included.
I would appreciate if you could send me original release packages. I lost Nighteyes' packages long time ago, but splitting everything from original modpack is hell of a job. I will update the packages with additional files, like removed nebulae I found in archives. Plus a few more models, like Latona, shivan keyship, Esarai's shivan cruiser removed long time ago... And finally - the music pack will see the daylight.
When I release updated packages, the whole "megadump" may be finally killed.
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I have four computers to search, but when I find it I will send it over :)
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Guys, when this will take? Years?
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Guys, when this will take? Years?
If you're keen to take a look, I dumped everything in the SVN here: https://mega.nz/#!uZ4x0T4D!tOv-42Ky4V-TuvnZS3XVaSf3V1fbW5XpW69H88v5mYw
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Thank you for the link. I'll check it out.
Anyone, care to take a look?
EDIT: It's one hell of a mod in development, complete with source files. I wish I could use it for my purposes.
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Downloaded it, too. Seems HUGE and a lot of good stuff is in there :lol:
May I be allowed to use some of this for my campaigns maybe?
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All those hours poured in the missions. Ahhh, it was a lovely hobby indeed.
Hope all of you get to tangle with the awesome assets and create nice stories :D