[Spoon]

Seems like most of you misunderstood what I was talking about. The shallowness was not about the game mechanics (I actually prefer computer mechanics over real-life book-keeping), but the shallowness is in the story itself. I know a bunch of people do not want to be bothered with hard thinking stuff on their free time, but what about us who do? In this respect, Torment managed to become more than just a game, it actually managed to break "just a game" barrier and became both piece of art and a game. I simply cannot consider BG to be close to the same level, when it clearly is not. I repeat that this has nothing to do with the game mechanics or how bug free the game was. And yes, I know art is very subjective and also depends on the person's age.

Well if you are looking to read a book instead of playing an actual game, you might as well 'play' nothing but visual novels. Or just go read a ****ing book you pretentious hipster.

[Droid803]

... you might as well 'play' nothing but visual novels. ...

good plan
i can get behind that

'bout all I actually do play in terms of games these days. (by my definition where modding =/= playing)

[MatthTheGeek]

If you want a story-driven game, you should be playing BP or other FS mods, not RPGs, you silly !

[TrashMan]

I never could get into Planescape Torment. The entire seting was off-puttting to me.

[Ravenholme]

And I wasn't meaning in game mechanics when I referred to Baldur's Gate. It's plot is anything but shallow. As you'd have found out if you'd played it all the way through and then gone onto 2.

[Alex Heartnet]

After playing through 1/3 of Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, I can safely say that is is more story-driven then most RPG's.  There's enough plot in that game for an entire season's worth of Star Trek.

[Mikes]

In related news: Baldurs Gate Enhanced Edition will be out on 18 September.

[TrashMan]

And I wasn't meaning in game mechanics when I referred to Baldur's Gate. It's plot is anything but shallow. As you'd have found out if you'd played it all the way through and then gone onto 2.

You speak as if PS:T is some masterpiece of plot. Guy with amnesia trying to find out who he is? That isn't very original. The setting is, but the setting and plot are not the same thing.
Personally, I consider BG2 >> PS:T

[BlueFlames]

You speak as if PS:T is some masterpiece of plot.  Guy with amnesia trying to find out who he is?  That isn't very original.

Did you actually play through the whole (or more than the first two minutes of) game?  The premise may not be very original, but what the game does with it is.

[Mika]

Good that it is now settled it isn't about mechanics. I don't doubt that BG plot is intelligent, but things go deeper than that. I'm looking for something more. It is the deeper things that I'm after here - sort of feeling that you have actually learned something after completing the game. Visual books don't often deliver on this either (actually, can't think of single one), and I suspect that what I'm looking for cannot be told in Freespace game format. Sci-fi plots tend to be complex, but for the sake of complexity. At the same go, it tends to detach the player from his own life and go completely by the rules of the game universe. Again, that's not what I'm after. And yes, I'm fully aware that a majority wants it to be this way, and I have no problem of games being like that, mostly. Just let me see something unique; big hand for the guys who recommended Arcanum. The big problem is, should I restart playing BG 1 with a character named "Belgarion" which seems to fit it better or go directly to Arcanum? 

I can definitely see that not everybody likes Planescape: Torment. No biggie, just keep on going to the direction you like. Just remember that things don't always remain the way you remember them - i.e. in a couple of years your opinion might change. For me the deciding moment was when I met the ghost of Deionarra. It was that moment when I knew that I had something special on my hands and that I had to see how it ends.

All this ends up in the question, should the games be considered just fun (as in having fun while playing), or strive for a possibility of becoming art too? Currently, it is the former (mostly).

[Colonol Dekker]

Go straight for Arcanum. Technology ftw.

[TrashMan]

You speak as if PS:T is some masterpiece of plot.  Guy with amnesia trying to find out who he is?  That isn't very original.

Did you actually play through the whole (or more than the first two minutes of) game?  The premise may not be very original, but what the game does with it is.

Alas, it does nothing  for me.
That said, BG1 plot is light. BG2 is better in that regard.

[Zacam]

Well if you are looking to read a book instead of playing an actual game, you might as well 'play' nothing but visual novels. Or just go read a ****ing book you pretentious hipster.

Perhaps some smilies or something there? Because other wise (as reported) this looks like a "personal attack" and I'd rather like to think that you wouldn't go there. Because if you DID go there, I'd have to do something about that. Like issue a warning or something. So, pretty please, I have a headache and would rather not have to do that. Thanks.

[FireSpawn]

Go straight for Arcanum.

I agree with this opinion. And if you decide to create a female character, you can get a ****tonne of cash fairly early on by whoring yourself out at a brothel! Sure part of my character's soul died each evening, but a whole load more zombies and wild beasties died from having their brains splattered all over the countryside by her snazzy sniper rifle.