Author Topic: Forum game: Rules/Discussion  (Read 163706 times)

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Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
After much deliberation, I’ve come to the conclusion that we must allow the 1st Zy to Secure Tauri this turn. It’s too dangerous to fight, the combined power of the 3 enemy fleets remaining on the front is enough to take someone out.

So instead, I recommend me and Jellyfish (2nd CRF + 4th SF) pull back, joining the 1st SF. There we will recover, and concentrate those 3 fleets into an iron fist with which to strike the enemy hard back into Tauri next turn. It will be a similar move to the one where Draco was conquered temporarily by the hierarchy. Emphasis on temporarily.

Taking Tauri will actually put a burden on the hierarchy that one turn. They don’t have the power to press the attack and chase us, and if the 1st Zy leaves Tauri without taking it, it flips over to “friendly” and can’t be re-entered. I imagine the 1st Zy will conquer the system and Resupply. (actually, I don't think they can resupply, it will be a broken supply line back to heirarchy space.)

The forces in Aldebaran should be safe from a triple team. Though the 1st LSF can survive one anyway. Have the 1st LSF cover the retreat of the 2nd SF. They can stay put and stall the enemy while the 2nd SF Resupplies and niffiwan with the 2nd UGCR Resupplies and mercs.

Andrew, please don’t go South. And please don't Resupply. I would like you to get mercs this turn, switch your first action to your special, so that we’ll have another set of fleets concentrated into a fist to strike the enemy in Aldebaran next turn. Two merced-up fleets will devastate the hierarchy. If we can crush the enemy here and shove them back, we may then be able to free someone to go down South after that.

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Alright, here’s what that Fura’ngle attack will look like:

4th CRF Fleet:
- Fighter attack strength: 18+8=26 (16+2+1)
- Capital attack strength: 15+9=24 (17+1)
- Fighters at 96% Strength, 3rd Gen
- Capital ships at 83% Strength
- Morale: High
- Zeal on Cooldown, Available again on Turn 6

1st DD Fleet:
- Fighter attack strength: 17+6=23 (18+2+1)
- Capital attack strength: 11+9=20 (17+1)
- Fighters at 73% Strength, 3rd Gen
- Capital ships at 61% Strength
- Morale: High
- Barrage on Cooldown, Available again on Turn 6
- Inspirational Leader

vs.

1st Fura'ngle Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 20+13=33 (16)
Capital attack strength: 26+10=36 (20)
Fighters at 128% Strength
Capital ships at 128% Strength
Morale: Normal

End
4th CRF Fleet:
- Fighters at 79% Strength, 3rd Gen
- Capital ships at 65% Strength

1st DD Fleet:
- Fighters at 56% Strength, 3rd Gen
- Capital ships at 43% Strength

vs.

1st Fura'ngle Fleet:
Fighters at 79% Strength
Capital ships at 84% Strength

You know, I think we might all just survive the turn, if the 2nd Hertak don't go and suicide-kill like the 1st Hertak did. The 1st Nordera would have to cover the retreat of the Hertak if they flee, and the 3rd Nordera can only muster up 15 capship damage with the weakened Fura'ngle hitting for maybe about 24, which is a high estimate. That'll fall just short of killing the 1st DD.

EDIT: I think I've talked about everyone now, but for our newly arrived space elf Cyrvan friends. On that, I am of the firm opinion this fleet needs to get into the battle as quickly as possible. A move to Tamy, then to Odin would put the Cyrvans in a position to engage the enemy the turn after this one by moving into Hydra and attacking.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 09:09:49 pm by Lorric »

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Fleet: 4th CRF

Minor, do nothing

Major, attack 1st Fura'ngle
Are you sure you want to perform your actions in that order? If you attack as your second action, that gives them time to hit you first, if they choose to.
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(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
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Offline Flak

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
No, they will only move after the player move in that turn. He just want to make sure that they hit the enemy together.

 

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
No, they will only move after the player move in that turn. He just want to make sure that they hit the enemy together.

Yup.
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Offline Enioch

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
BTW, is there a reason why we try to hit the enemy together? Does it somehow improve our damage output? Because it definitely increases the damage we take. Consider this:

If Fleets A and B want to attack fleet C, what is the best way to do so?

If both fleets (A & B) attack Fleet C with their first action, does the damage done by Fleet C get 'spread out' between the two fleets? (If I study the battle results, I am sure I can figure this out, but I'm not gonna bother, if I can ask Spoon). In other words, does Fleet C take damage equal to (Fleet A Damage)+(Fleet B Damage), while Fleet A and B take damage equal to (Fleet C Damage)/2? If so, all fine and dandy, and it makes sense to attack together.

However, if, in the above example, fleets A and B take damage equal to (Fleet C damage), then attacking together is a mistake. If Fleet A attacks with its first action, while Fleet B attacks with its second, then they will deal the same damage (Fleet A +Fleet B). But Fleet B will take less damage, since Fleet A will have already damaged Fleet C. Essentially, Fleet A will take (Fleet C) damage, while Fleet B will take (Weakened Fleet C) Damage.

Does this make sense to you? Spoon, help us out here!
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Offline niffiwan

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I don't think it matters what order we attack the enemy.  Last turn, the 2nd UGCR attacked the 2nd Zy 1st, while 1st LSF & 2nd SF attacked 2nd.  The damage dealt to us was 1/3 each of what the 2nd Zy could inflict, i.e. 30/29 became 10/10 each (note that combined arms for the 1st LSF reduced the damage to 8/8 for them).

Code: [Select]
Aldebaran, 1st LSF, 2nd SF and 2nd UGCR vs 2nd Zy

1st LSF Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 25+8+1 = 34
Capital attack strength: 15+13+1 = 29
Fighters at 96% Strength, 4th Gen
Capital ships at 100% Strength
Morale: High

2nd SF Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 20+9 = 29
Capital attack strength: 18+10 = 28
Fighters at 100% Strength, 3rd Gen
Capital ships at 100% Strength
Morale: Normal

2nd UGCR Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 14+7 = 21
Capital attack strength: 14+7 = 21
Fighters at 95% Strength, 3rd Gen
Capital ships at 96% Strength
Morale: Normal

2nd Zy Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 20+10 = 30
Capital attack strength: 19+10 = 29
Fighters at 90% Strength
Capital ships at 91% Strength
Morale: High

End strength:
1st LSF Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 23 (19+5+1)
Capital attack strength: 14 (14+1)
Fighters at 88% Strength, 4th Gen
Capital ships at 92% Strength
Morale: High

2nd SF Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 18 (18+2)
Capital attack strength: 16 (18)
Fighters at 90% Strength, 3rd Gen
Capital ships at 90% Strength
Morale: Normal

2nd UGCR Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 13 (13+2)
Capital attack strength: 13 (15)
Fighters at 85% Strength, 3rd Gen
Capital ships at 86% Strength
Morale: Normal

2nd Zy Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 1 (21+1)
Capital attack strength: 3 (20+1)
Fighters at 6% Strength
Capital ships at 13% Strength
Morale: Normal
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Offline Enioch

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
In that case, it is indeed better to concentrate fire, but it seems that all attacks happen at the same 'time', no matter the action (1st or 2nd) used.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Yes, I can add further confirmation on that, as it stuck in my mind when it happened with me once. When I teamed with two other fleets to destroy the 1st Cordi, they attacked first, but I had to jump into the system, so my attack came 2nd, so I thought they'd end up taking all the damage, but it was spread equally between all 3 of us. And this is a good thing! :D

EDIT: Lepanto, it might be a good idea to switch the attack to your first action, then leave the system on your second action. Then you'll be a step closer to recovery. And you can always come back into the system and attack next turn if recovery isn't the best option.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 08:43:26 am by Lorric »

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Right, which front do you need me on? I'm just gonna move up to (age of) Aquarius for easy access to both sides if there's no specific urgency.
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Right, which front do you need me on? I'm just gonna move up to (age of) Aquarius for easy access to both sides if there's no specific urgency.
I would say go to Hydra. Get into battle as quickly as possible. Especially since the South lost a fleet.

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I'd also suggest the south.  I think the north is OK at the moment, and it's a bit easier to defend overall.

* niffiwan crosses fingers that 3x Hertak fleets are not waiting offscreen to prove me wrong  :lol:
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I'd also suggest the south.  I think the north is OK at the moment, and it's a bit easier to defend overall.

* niffiwan crosses fingers that 3x Hertak fleets are not waiting offscreen to prove me wrong  :lol:
I have tried to find it and can't, but I'm sure I remember something in the canon about the Hertak not fighting alongside the Zy, and the Zy have only appeared at the top and the Hertak only at the bottom...

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Alright, heading towards Hydra. Don't all die before I get there.
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I'm sure we won't all die in the next turn :)

And, more seriously, if the Hierarchy go all out offence next turn & the 1st Nordera (or 2nd Hertak) move to Draco, I suspect we could lose the 1st DD.  We'll destroy the 2nd Hertak one way or other if that occurs, but still.  If the 1st Nordera/2nd Hertak stay where they are or retreat, everyone should survive, even if 1st Fura'ngle moves to Hydra and they gang up on the 3rd SF.  Does that match your numbers Lorric?  And should we consider a more conservative turn in the south?
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Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I'm sure we won't all die in the next turn :)

And, more seriously, if the Hierarchy go all out offence next turn & the 1st Nordera (or 2nd Hertak) move to Draco, I suspect we could lose the 1st DD.  We'll destroy the 2nd Hertak one way or other if that occurs, but still.  If the 1st Nordera/2nd Hertak stay where they are or retreat, everyone should survive, even if 1st Fura'ngle moves to Hydra and they gang up on the 3rd SF.  Does that match your numbers Lorric?  And should we consider a more conservative turn in the south?

Yes. The 1st DD will survive if the Heirarchy are "sensible". But not if the 2nd Hertak are as fanatical as the 1st. The 3rd SF will survive easily.

I would probably have had the 1st DD resupply, but if he's willing to bear the risk, I have no problem with taking it, it saves the 4th CRF from having to just sit there, and they'll do some decent damage to the Fura'ngle. So we're hitting the only three dangerous fleets (and destroying one.)

EDIT: Further information, if we leave the Fura'ngle alone, then the 3rd SF will become vulnerable to a Hertak suicide attack instead, so there's no benefit to a conservative turn. If the 2nd Hertak attacks, someone dies either way. So it's better we attack, as we are doing.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 11:15:56 pm by Lorric »

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I would probably have had the 1st DD resupply, but if he's willing to bear the risk, I have no problem with taking it, it saves the 4th CRF from having to just sit there, and they'll do some decent damage to the Fura'ngle. So we're hitting the only three dangerous fleets (and destroying one.)
My tactical instincts were to continue to resupply; my strategic instincts told me I didn't have that kind of luxury, and we need to hammer the enemy as quickly as possible to blunt their offensive. If they manage to take me out, so be it; they'll have opened themselves up in the process, and we'll for damned sure not go down alone (I'm looking at you, 1st Hertak).
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I would probably have had the 1st DD resupply, but if he's willing to bear the risk, I have no problem with taking it, it saves the 4th CRF from having to just sit there, and they'll do some decent damage to the Fura'ngle. So we're hitting the only three dangerous fleets (and destroying one.)
My tactical instincts were to continue to resupply; my strategic instincts told me I didn't have that kind of luxury, and we need to hammer the enemy as quickly as possible to blunt their offensive. If they manage to take me out, so be it; they'll have opened themselves up in the process, and we'll for damned sure not go down alone (I'm looking at you, 1st Hertak).
I'm not sure if I would have thought of it if you hadn't decided to attack to make me consider the possibilities.

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
My tactical instincts were to continue to resupply; my strategic instincts told me I didn't have that kind of luxury, and we need to hammer the enemy as quickly as possible to blunt their offensive. If they manage to take me out, so be it; they'll have opened themselves up in the process, and we'll for damned sure not go down alone (I'm looking at you, 1st Hertak).

I salute you sir, may Fortune Favour the Bold

EDIT: Further information, if we leave the Fura'ngle alone, then the 3rd SF will become vulnerable to a Hertak suicide attack instead, so there's no benefit to a conservative turn. If the 2nd Hertak attacks, someone dies either way. So it's better we attack, as we are doing.

Well, conservative like pull back completely from Draco & Hydra this turn then drop the hammer next turn, similar to the Tauri plan.  Doing that should suck up Hierarchy actions to secure the systems, leaving less of them to attack us next turn (I haven't run the numbers on this, but I'm pretty sure it'd mean no fleet losses).  Ignoring any political implications, trading territory for time often works  ;)
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I salute you sir, may Fortune Favour the Bold

Seconded.

Well, conservative like pull back completely from Draco & Hydra this turn then drop the hammer next turn, similar to the Tauri plan.  Doing that should suck up Hierarchy actions to secure the systems, leaving less of them to attack us next turn (I haven't run the numbers on this, but I'm pretty sure it'd mean no fleet losses).  Ignoring any political implications, trading territory for time often works  ;)

Oh, I see. I'm still inclined to go for it this turn.

I do not want the enemy to end up getting two Hertak fleets together. We couldn't all pull back and destroy the 1st Hertak. And another Hertak fleet could arrive as well.

And I think there is potential for us to get in a strong position. Of course, we don't know what might show up next turn.

Also to consider is the tactical advantage having Draco and Hydra gives us, if we pull back, it will be much harder to transfer forces to each Southern front, that is an advantage we should not hand the heirarchy unless we're really desperate.