[0rph3u5]

So, as some of you might know I am still working on a re-release of the 11 years _{oh-no-where-had-the-time-gone} old campaigns Rain on Ribos IV, Light of Antares and Hellgate: Ikeya.

As part of that re-release effort I've been fixing outstanding technical issues (e.g. Luxor Station has working traffic pattern now) and adding in some quality of live stuff (e.g. distinct directives for fighter and bomber wings). One of the biggest changes is going to be that I took the time and re-wrote all the crappy briefings in Rain on Ribos IV in an effort to improve the direction for what admittedly are pretty basic missions.

During that task I once again encountered RoR's 14th mission ... and I had at once the urge to go full Ministry of Truth on it.
The mission is pure, unfiltered bad. It makes the original Silent Threat look like a masterpiece.* There isn't even an ironic angle to go "hey, isn't it funny that this was gameplay enough 20 years ago?" with it.

Now I would be disingenuous not to mention that there are reasons for it exist:

1) As conscious design choice, RoR follows a "one mission equals one day" structure - with the exception of the finale(s). The campaign timeline starts one day before the capture of the Taranis and ends on the day of the Command Briefing in which the existence of the Lucifer is revealed.

2) It contains one of rare consequential bonus objectives of the entire campaign: Your job is to escort a vasudan cruiser on patrol, if you stay through your watch and the one of your replacements and cruiser has survived, it is added to one of the two, mutually exclusive, final missions as an escort to the PVD Pinnacle.

3) It has an embarrassingly lazy Derelict call-out.


On balance, this is not the first time I re-did a mission in this set of campaign from the group up:
The original finale of Light of Antares was so disconnected in terms of gameplay from the story, that I went and re-build it from the ground up for an update.


So please help me to work out this issue within the next 30 days.

_{*Okay, that's maybe too much even for hyperbole for effect. That would require a new kind of transcendent FREDing I am certainly not capable of.}

[Novachen]

First of all, i actually liked RoR4 very much, if i remember it correctly, it was much better than LoA and HG:I.

But well, in the end i voted for Yes, but make sure to move its elements to space in other missions.

Because a filler mission from the original is maybe better, if it is not a standalone mission, but part of an extended mission instead .
But i think that filler missions can also be a good thing to give the player some rest in preparation to the things, that are about to come. I mean... it does not need to happen something spectacular every day

Or you can use the element from the filler mission for a complete new mission as a replacement that tell nothing different, but is a better mission gameplay wise. ST:R did that in some cases back then, too

[0rph3u5]

Quick administrative side bar:
Option 4 changed from "I remember the tradition, but not its content" to "Snuffleupagus". That was originally intended to be the option, as it is an HLP tradition, but I didn't remember the exact word.
(Thanks to Doomfrost on Discord for the answer)

[karajorma]

Personally I'd say "It's your campaign, do whatever you feel would improve it"

[Spoon]

Absolutely. If you've identified a weak mission, definitely either remake it or scrap it completely. Especially if it is, as you say, a filler mission.

[X3N0-Life-Form]

Absolutely. If you've identified a weak mission, definitely either remake it or scrap it completely. Especially if it is, as you say, a filler mission.

Quoting for truth.

[Nightmare]

I often caught myself finding missions (in the campaign outlines I wrought) that consisted of 1/3 plot relevant stuff and 2/3, well, not that relevant stuff (mostly bad mission design). I then merged the plot part with a nearby mission which had a good idea for the mission design. Makes 1 mission less to FRED (in my case atleast) and a higher quality campaign.

1) As conscious design choice, RoR follows a "one mission equals one day" structure - with the exception of the finale(s). The campaign timeline starts one day before the capture of the Taranis and ends on the day of the Command Briefing in which the existence of the Lucifer is revealed.

If you need exactly 1 day per mission, you could try to work around that by making a different mission start at 23:52 pm and end on the next day. Not sure if realistic enough, though.

2) It contains one of rare consequential bonus objectives of the entire campaign: Your job is to escort a vasudan cruiser on patrol, if you stay through your watch and the one of your replacements and cruiser has survived, it is added to one of the two, mutually exclusive, final missions as an escort to the PVD Pinnacle.

Haven't played the campaign but a cruiser and a escort wing sounds like something that wouldn't sting out elsewhere.

[0rph3u5]

I often caught myself finding missions (in the campaign outlines I wrought) that consisted of 1/3 plot relevant stuff and 2/3, well, not that relevant stuff (mostly bad mission design). I then merged the plot part with a nearby mission which had a good idea for the mission design. Makes 1 mission less to FRED (in my case atleast) and a higher quality campaign.

I have been there before.

Except in RoR, since it running during the FS1 campaign, the story/plot wasn't ever that important. Most of the campaign exists to string together a number of mission designs I had laying around, and a few visuals I then had fresh in my mind (if you look closely you can tell the difference). They are strung together in a very basic plot that basically is a progression of the increasing threat by Lucifer's vanguard. While there is indeed a huge opportunity to trim it down, the length actually makes vor a more statisfying slow burn. (Though, the degree of success in the execution can certainly be argued.)

That's also why the dead stop of RoR_14 is that hard to swallow IMO.

On the other hand, it is the final mission before the Lucifer shows up "in person", only two missions removed from it blasting Tombaught to bits and, if you chose the PVD Pledge path, three missions removed from seeing an allied counterattack being obliterated with no effort at all. Meaning that can exist in the plot a brief moment as the calm before everything spirals out of control.

1) As conscious design choice, RoR follows a "one mission equals one day" structure - with the exception of the finale(s). The campaign timeline starts one day before the capture of the Taranis and ends on the day of the Command Briefing in which the existence of the Lucifer is revealed.

If you need exactly 1 day per mission, you could try to work around that by making a different mission start at 23:52 pm and end on the next day. Not sure if realistic enough, though.

As a quasi-realistic out I could always go for a version of "the next one is going to be the Big One. Have a day to rest up." or "Tomorrow is going to be your mandated day off. Make sure to rest."

I don't know the rules for fighter pilots in RL, but every modern military force has a policy to rotate units away from active combat on a regular basis, so their soldiers have enough time to physically and psychologically recover enought so that combat doesn't deteriorates their abilities long term (its usually packaged in much nicer terminology). With that consideration in mind, two weeks of uninterrupted daily deployments sounds, to me, like it shoud be pushing a limit.

[Mito [PL]]

If the mission brings nothing to the plot of the campaign or gameplay, yes, it's fine to get rid of it. On the other hand you could carry something from it into any other mission, if it feels a bit too empty. I also mentioned on Discord that you could place an unlockable troll/meme/fun/easter egg mission instead of it. Or make it a rescue mission of some kind, so that if the ship you rescue can help you in later missions if it survives. Or introduce some innovative gameplay in this place, the possibilities are endless!

[X3N0-Life-Form]

On the other hand you could carry something from it into any other mission, if it feels a bit too empty. [...] Or introduce some innovative gameplay in this place, the possibilities are endless!

Speaking from experience, doing something like this allowed me to salvage 2 missions whose initial concept fell short & tie them into a side-plot that pays off in the final missions.

[0rph3u5]

For added context:

I've now finished the outline for a course of action, for each option:

Option 1: Cutting completely.

I remove the mission from the campaign but the 2007 version stays in the final .vp, to be played at leisure via the Mission Simulator. To preserve the integrety of the campaign's original structure, I will add language to both Debriefing of RoR_13 and the command briefing of RoR_15 to indicate that a day has passed.

Unless, I am wrong on how "previous-goal-true-delay" works, in RoR_17a the arrival cue of the Aten will now return to the default entered for playing it as a single mission, no additional change required. If I am wrong, I will replace it with what's the default.

Option 2: Cut, but move plot elements.

I remove the mission from the campaign but the 2007 version stays in the final .vp, to be played at leisure via the Mission Simulator. To preserve the integrety of the campaign's original structure, I will add language to both Debriefing of RoR_13 and the command briefing of RoR_15 to indicate that a day has passed.

I will find an appropriate mission to add the Aten to. I have a mission in mind, where it would replace a Leviathan, and make the neccessary alterations in terms of balancing, as well as change the mission objective so the survival of the Leviathan-turned-Aten is no longer mission ciritcal. Before I make those changes I will, of course, make a copy to the original mission for single play, that will be added to the final .vp. In RoR_17a I will make change the arrival cue of the Aten accordingly.

Option 3: No cutting.

I will change nothing and bear the criticsm after the re-release.

Alternatively, I will change the campaign file to no longer check if the primary mission objective of RoR_14 had been completed before advancing the player to RoR_15. As a result the mission could never be "failed" and if a player wants to skip it, they can just warp out. Loading time would still suck, but that's not in my power to change (okay, it is, in a way, technically ... but you know what I mean).

Option 4: Snuffleupagus

... I am going to use AI, social media profiles and facial recogntion to tailor every download to the preference of each person downloading variables

[0rph3u5]

So the poll has concluded, and with 7 to 6 the "Yes, totally" have it.

So, the plan it going to be similar this:

Option 1: Cutting completely.

I remove the mission from the campaign but the 2007 version stays in the final .vp, to be played at leisure via the Mission Simulator. To preserve the integrety of the campaign's original structure, I will add language to both Debriefing of RoR_13 and the command briefing of RoR_15 to indicate that a day has passed.

Unless, I am wrong on how "previous-goal-true-delay" works, in RoR_17a the arrival cue of the Aten will now return to the default entered for playing it as a single mission, no additional change required. If I am wrong, I will replace it with what's the default.

See you in three weeks.

[jr2]

What if you make it into an optional mission like the spec ops stuff?

[karajorma]

If the mission serves no purpose putting it in as optional would just confuse issues. A better way to include it would be to simply miss it out of the campaign file completely. That way anyone who still wants to play it can do so via the tech room.