[Insomniac34]

So we know where are roughly a dozen Hecate class destroyers in the Terran fleet. I would imagine most of the Orions have been decomissioned, and they only keep a few around as backups for extra firepower in the event of another Shivan incursion or until more Titans and Raynors are completed.

So from what I understand, the Titans are the "carriers" of the fleet, supplementing the Hecates with additional fighters and bombers and a decent array of anti capital ship weapons. And the Raynors are specified Shivan destroyer killers.

So, how many Titans and Raynors, roughly, are in the Terran fleet at the time of Blue Planet? 1 each? 2 of each?

[The E]

I think we decided that the GTVA has phased out the Orions completely in favor of the Raynor design, and that the Hecates are on their way out as well.

That being said, we haven't really thought about it yet. We know how many ships of each class are operating in and around Sol, but as for the rest of the GTVA, we do not know.

My personal estimate, which is NOT CANON for BP, is that the GTVA managed to build only 5 or less each of the Raynors and Titans. In our backstory, the GTVA went through a massive economic crisis in the aftermath of FS2, so they don't really have the funding to build a massive advanced fleet (which is why there are only two new fighter designs in AoA, one of them rather cheap, the other one an evolution of an existing design) to replace the old one, and keeping the old one operational is becoming an ever-increasing strain on the budget.

[Insomniac34]

I think we decided that the GTVA has phased out the Orions completely in favor of the Raynor design, and that the Hecates are on their way out as well.

That being said, we haven't really thought about it yet. We know how many ships of each class are operating in and around Sol, but as for the rest of the GTVA, we do not know.

My personal estimate, which is NOT CANON for BP, is that the GTVA managed to build only 5 or less each of the Raynors and Titans. In our backstory, the GTVA went through a massive economic crisis in the aftermath of FS2, so they don't really have the funding to build a massive advanced fleet (which is why there are only two new fighter designs in AoA, one of them rather cheap, the other one an evolution of an existing design) to replace the old one, and keeping the old one operational is becoming an ever-increasing strain on the budget.

Surely it would be foolish to phase out the Hecates? While not suitable for direct capital ship combat with the Shivans, their massive hangar bays and decent firepower should necessitate upgrades, not decomissioning. Like you said, I would imagine that the financial crisis would dictate the extension of the Hecate's life to supplement the new vessels, not its removal from service. If they cant afford new fighter designs then how could they afford to replace a dozen Hecates, which are only like 30 years old?

[The E]

There is only very little you can do to improve the Hecas' combat effectivenes. It's general design means that you need a lot of AAA installations to cover it. The simpler, more streamlined shape of the Titan allows better defensive coverage, while at the same time making construction and maintenance cheaper. As I see it, the Hecate is a failed design offshoot of the Colossus project, far too complex and fancy for real combat duty. The Titan improves upon it in nearly every aspect of operation.

Also note that I didn't say they all were replaced. I think there's a gradual replacement process going on, where instead of doing major repairs or upgraded, ships are simply replaced and retired (probably mothballed).

[General Battuta]

Keep in mind that this is all non-canonical speculation.

I'll throw in my two cents, which is that there are a lot - probably more than a dozen - Hecates in active service, all heavily focused on fighter operations. Orions have been rolled back but not yet completely retired; they're pretty much worthless against their Shivan opposites (the Ravana) and they're severely undergunned against fighters but they still have a lot of firepower.

I don't think the Hecate is on its way out so much as on its way sideways. It's a good carrier. I more or less agree with The_E's notion that they're not being actively retired.

As for the Titans and Raynors, there aren't many yet. Same with the advanced corvettes and cruisers. We're going with a less is more approach and trying to invest a lot of worth and character in relatively few ships. I don't want to divulge the exact numbers, but they do exist.

One thing I will disagree with The_E on is the idea that we haven't thought about it yet. We've actually put quite a bit of thought in.    (We maintain fairly complete OrBats for both factions in Sol, for instance.)

[The E]

One thing I will disagree with The_E on is the idea that we haven't thought about it yet. We've actually put quite a bit of thought in.    (We maintain fairly complete OrBats for both factions in Sol, for instance.)

Note that I said that we know how many of these ships are around Sol. It's all the other areas of the GTVA we know nothing about. AFAIK, we haven't really discussed those yet

[Insomniac34]

I'm pretty sure it's either assumed or mentioned in FS canon that the GTVA Fleets are divided among the most inhabited systems, with the size of a system's population and its resources dictating how many and how advanced of a fleet it harbors, if any at all. Scarcely populated systems maintain small defense fleets, while totally useless systems (think Gamma Draconis) are rarely visited.

Thats how I look at it at least. I think the Vasudans have a smaller number of systems under their control, and hence, I would imagine each of their systems has at least a Hatshepsut in it.

Speaking of them, I assume the Vasudans haven't really built any new destroyers since Capella, and instead focused their resources on upgrading their existing Hatshepsut force? How many Hatshepsuts would you venture to guess exists?
'

[General Battuta]

To the contrary; the Vasudans have been far more successful than the Terrans at updating and expanding their military. The Vasudan Medjai maintains a number of new ship designs.

[The E]

Yep. The Vasudans came out of Capella pretty much intact; they have been de facto carrying the Alliance in the time between Capella and AoA.


Now, we're not going to show you those new designs just yet (since they are scheduled to make an appearance in BP3), but rest assured that the Vasudans will return and kick some ass.

[Rodo]

YAY! kick some ass, fishhead stile!

[Insomniac34]

wow, the Vasudans must be pretty powerful if the Terrans' 20ish destroyers is considered "not intact".

[The E]

Economically intact. The Terran part of the GTVA suffered the most under the upheavals following Capella. The Vasudan territory was never even infringed on, and the Vasudan Empire as a whole came through that ordeal almost intact (with just a few ships being lost).

They didn't have to deal with a quarter of a billion refugees, and the jumpnet restructuring following the Nova, after all.

[Dragon]

Also, they had no intrest in building a portal using a technology reaserched just enough to do it.
The Sol portal was retty much a bottomless well with no real use other than reconnecting one system to the rest of universe, for no clear purpose (in layman's terms, a waste of huge amounts of time and money, which could have been spent in better ways) from their point of view. Terran behaviour must had seemed a bit ridiculus to them, spending millions of whatever GTVA uses as currency mostly because of nostalgia.

[General Battuta]

Well, bear in mind that Sol had a massive and presumably intact industrial and population base, matching or outstrippping the rest of the GTA at the time the node was sealed according to canonical information (assuming the most parsimonious reading of the word 'bulk'.)

[headdie]

i know it puts a human spin on vasudan psychology but they would probably understand the drive to build the portal, lets face it what would any vasudan do to be able to visit vasuda prime before the attack?

[AugustusVarius]

If we go with BP's interpretation of Vasudan philosophy, they don't have to go back to Vasuda Prime - everything exists and will always exist, just in a different point of time.  Reminds me of the aliens in Slaughterhouse Five.

[Droid803]

I don't know, they'd probably love to go back to Vasuda primer, if only for their libraries. Given that Vasudans eject escape pods filled with not people, but records, it makes sense.
I'd feel that Vasudans could probably relate to wanting to go back to their homeworld and study its history.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

If the Orions are phased out, I can understand that, but Hecates ... that's cutting it a bit too soon, don't you think?

Bear in mind that Orions served the Terrans for four decades, probably more. At around the time of 2365, they were only starting to be phased out by the Deimos and Hecate, which were new designs back then. Given this tack, and the fact that Hecate destroyers are a little more effective than Orion destroyers, the GTVA would probably only replace them near 2410. In other words, during BP, they should serve as the backbone of the Terran side of the GTVA.

From my point of view, in 2389, the GTVA would probably only have about 2 or 3 Raynor destroyers, and possibly about 3 to 5 Titan destroyers. Any more and they may probably be too strong for the UEF to last for over a year.

I don't know, they'd probably love to go back to Vasuda primer, if only for their libraries. Given that Vasudans eject escape pods filled with not people, but records, it makes sense.
I'd feel that Vasudans could probably relate to wanting to go back to their homeworld and study its history.

That would probably the only reason. However, the Intelligence section of the Director's Cut database can probably explain why they no longer have any desire to reinhabit Vasuda Prime, if that is even possible in the first place.

[Droid803]

That only reason would probably be enough.
In the hypothetical example with Sol and Vasuda switched, the Vasudans would likely seek to construct a subspace portal to reconnect with their homeworld (and its history). Even more so especially since there would likely be Vasudans still living there.

I merely disagree with what Dragon is claiming.

The Vasudans may not understand the Terrans' reasoning behind why they wish to construct the portal, but I feel that they would understand that if their situations were reversed, they'd likely want the same thing, merely for different reasons. I don't feel that the Vasudans would be content with discarding a significant portion of their population, knowledge, and industrial base because it'd take some resources to get back to them if they were put into the same scenario.

yes, you could make the argument that they're not in that position, but doesn't that make Vasudans sound like asshats if they go "Yeah, if this happened to us, we'd like your help, but since it happened to you, we're not helping you."?

[General Battuta]

The Vasudans could have - and probably did - make the case that returning to Earth was secondary to securing the alliance economically and militarily, though.

And then Petrarch went and put his foot in his mouth to Khonsu's face.