Author Topic: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion  (Read 22596 times)

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Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
also, the simplest, dumbest interface with js could be onclick="main.goToBriefing();" or what have you :p

Those of you who are arguing for non html stuff. Sure, they are the right, proper, full double plus good solutions.


EXCEPT for the end users (modders). Who just want the thrice damned thing over and done with.



Anything involing a custom DSL (Domain Specific Language to the code-challenged of you) is a very very very bad idea, because of the aforementioned "look how badly lua has fared".

Its a simple problem, people will not bother to learn something thats specific to this one sole thing unless they have a very personal investment in it.


Btw, swifty, this just crossed my mind, how in the twelve hells would we integrate the rendered background and stuff? One thought that comes to mind is a canvas element with pass-through, but other than that...


Indeed. I'm rusty at HTML, CSS and have rarely used Java.. but I can figure that out. Going with some other DSL... it's unlikely I would bother. I'm already only ankle deep in trying to figure out LUA and I'm one of those people with a personal investment.

And yes, I would wonder how something like a mainhall would be recreated. I've never done anything quite like that in a browser capable environment. However, given that mainhalls can now be any res with all kinds of fun features (cheats and the like)... I'd probably stick to using that. But that's my personal preference based on my current HTML, CSS, Java abilities.

So for whatever that's worth, that's my opinion as one of the modders in the community with a clear investment in the interface side of things.
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Offline BirdofPrey

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
If it makes any difference, before I found out the engine didn't support it, I started some initial work on recreating the FS1 interface, and most of the work was spent figuring out what parameters I need to get the texture and bevels to actually look right, so I have SOME graphical assets ready (in the sense they are formatted how FS uses elements, would have to spend a bit cutting everything apart to work with a new system)  and it shouldn't be too hard for me to make more.

Granted that does nothing for recreating the FS2 interface, but maybe some of the workflow can be reused.
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Offline pecenipicek

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
also, the simplest, dumbest interface with js could be onclick="main.goToBriefing();" or what have you :p

Those of you who are arguing for non html stuff. Sure, they are the right, proper, full double plus good solutions.


EXCEPT for the end users (modders). Who just want the thrice damned thing over and done with.



Anything involing a custom DSL (Domain Specific Language to the code-challenged of you) is a very very very bad idea, because of the aforementioned "look how badly lua has fared".

Its a simple problem, people will not bother to learn something thats specific to this one sole thing unless they have a very personal investment in it.


Btw, swifty, this just crossed my mind, how in the twelve hells would we integrate the rendered background and stuff? One thought that comes to mind is a canvas element with pass-through, but other than that...


Indeed. I'm rusty at HTML, CSS and have rarely used Java.. but I can figure that out. Going with some other DSL... it's unlikely I would bother. I'm already only ankle deep in trying to figure out LUA and I'm one of those people with a personal investment.

And yes, I would wonder how something like a mainhall would be recreated. I've never done anything quite like that in a browser capable environment. However, given that mainhalls can now be any res with all kinds of fun features (cheats and the like)... I'd probably stick to using that. But that's my personal preference based on my current HTML, CSS, Java abilities.

So for whatever that's worth, that's my opinion as one of the modders in the community with a clear investment in the interface side of things.
i'll see if i can get a quick and dirty json-powered briefing screen done in the next few days. btw, Java !== JavaScript :P
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Offline BirdofPrey

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
Java !== JavaScript :P
off topic: never understood the name.  Javascript isn't even remotely related to Java
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Offline pecenipicek

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
Java !== JavaScript :P
off topic: never understood the name.  Javascript isn't even remotely related to Java
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript#JavaScript_and_Java
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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
As far as the 'HTML isn't for UIs per se' thing goes, I brought it up in case there's a chance chromium could update in a way that throws things out a bit and leave FSO in an awkward position. If there isn't then I guess it's OK.
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Offline pecenipicek

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
As far as the 'HTML isn't for UIs per se' thing goes, I brought it up in case there's a chance chromium could update in a way that throws things out a bit and leave FSO in an awkward position. If there isn't then I guess it's OK.
if it did, it would break a ****ton of the web along with us.
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Offline pecenipicek

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
for what its worth, nothing worthwhile will come out of me WRT the web-based UI. I tried with angularJS and while the basic concept of "break everything down to basic interchangeable blocks" works well, i simply dont have the time to convert the thrice damned interface art to something that might lend itself to any form of resizing easily.


Also, JS is not my particular cup of tea and AngularJS is full of so many potholes and "oh god why?" fun i cant stand it. Still, the bigger issue is getting the interface art out into a web-compatible form.
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Offline chief1983

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
Getting a drop-in replacement for the existing GUI isn't really what we need, since as you've realized, the art is unbearably difficult to work with for something like that.  Creating a fresh new interface with the same feel would be the idea in the long run, but something with minimal styling, and all the functionality of a menu represented would be a solid proof of concept.  It could just be pages of the options forms represented, and areas that when clicked indicate to the user that it would produce a state change or something.  That's roughly how I'm guessing it would integrate into the engine anyway.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 02:53:14 pm by chief1983 »
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Offline m!m

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
For my chromium integration I created a very minimalistic and ugly "mainhall" menu: http://www.mediafire.com/download/xh2tm35aijm136c/mainhallTest.7z
It also shows how the JavaScript programmer would interact with the engine.

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
I wish there are registry entries used by FSO. I think they are neglected since the source release.

And there are a lot of configuration settings for all corresponding FRED and FSO builds in the Windows OS folder.

I think moving them to a unified, but separate config file in the FS2 directory will solve all of this. This file is to be used by the in-game UI.
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Offline The E

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
Okay. Are you ever going to start helping with this, or are you only going to be an idea guy all the time? Because frankly, we need coders more than we need ideas.
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Offline z64555

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
Okay. Are you ever going to start helping with this, or are you only going to be an idea guy all the time? Because frankly, we need coders more than we need ideas.

Agreed. :) We're willing to help you along the way, Bryan. But you are, as the idea guy, the best one to implement the ideas because you know exactly what they are.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
Wait a sec, aren't registry entries a terrible idea? They kill install portability.

 
Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
And you need to use something entirely different on other platforms. The SCP is moving away from that kind of thing with Antipodes.
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Offline Bryan See

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
Yes. I'm going to help. I have made a FS2 Open fork on GitHub weeks ago. If I indeed have, where do I start for making an ingame UI for commandline settings?

To General Battuta and Phantom Hoover, I agree this is a problem, and we need to use something entirely different on other platforms. Perhaps, a unified model of supporting different platforms, as well as future platforms (iOS, Android, Windows Phone, PS4, or Xbox One).

What about Lua as "super-script"?
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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
What about it? Whatever it is, the SCP aren't going to code it for you, they have their own ideas that they're busy with.
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Offline The E

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
There already is a model that works on all platforms we support. What I want to see is that we move everything to the same model we use on Linux, Unix and MacOS (that being a config file in the user directories these OSes provide for that purpose). There is no need to reinvent the wheel, just a need to bring the Windows exe in line with the other ones, and implementing that model in wxLauncher.
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Offline m!m

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
I have been doing some initial work on converting all config file related path handling to use SDL_GetPrefPath instead of using some platform specific method of determining that: https://github.com/scp-fs2open/fs2open.github.com/pull/282

That will make sure that every platform can use the same code for locating the config files. That should make adding config file support for Windows a bit easier.

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Ingame UI for commandline settings discussion
How about the Settings flyout in Windows 10? m!m, I guess that this makes extensive use of SDL_GetPrefPath.
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