Hard Light Productions Forums

Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Between the Ashes => Topic started by: Oddgrim on September 25, 2016, 03:00:52 pm

Title: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Oddgrim on September 25, 2016, 03:00:52 pm
Now all you modders can start early picking through the mod for things to steal borrow! Then on October 26, you'll have no distractions from playing the campaign, right? :p

Great! I'll search furiously though the modpack for hidden secrets :p
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: starwolf1991 on September 26, 2016, 06:46:27 am
The updated Mefistofele campaign was a beaut to run through again; even better than I remember and left me with a serious whaaaa.....? at the end. Looking forward to seeing what you have in store for the main campaign release on October 26th.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Rodo on September 26, 2016, 09:14:12 am
I'll set it to download tomorrow when back home :D
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Makhpella on September 26, 2016, 12:22:04 pm
Fairly certain there's an extra A in the Mustang Alpha description.

I love the main menu theme, which is the only thing I heard. Will play the demo soon.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Bryan See on October 23, 2016, 10:08:26 pm
Wow. I think I can use that releasing model (e.g. releasing a modpack then campaigns, and others) for my Shattered Stars mod, and future FSOpen mod projects on HLP.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on October 25, 2016, 08:32:16 am
Wooooooooooooooooolloooooloooooooooo
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: JCDNWarrior on October 25, 2016, 08:52:45 am
Congratulations on release!

Should this thread be used as a feedback thread or should we have a specific thread for it? I'm already excited at the new features I've seen that BtA has included.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: starlord on October 25, 2016, 09:28:02 am
Great work mjn.mixael.

Now someone please make a video playthrough of this.😄
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CloudZ1116 on October 25, 2016, 11:47:44 am
Now someone please make a video playthrough of this.😄

Seconded. Calling FrikgFeek or QuantumDelta, please work your magic!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Luis Dias on October 25, 2016, 12:18:11 pm
WOOOOOOOOO
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Rodo on October 25, 2016, 03:33:14 pm
Thank you!!

You've saved me from trying again to play a stellaris game that's now broken past hope.
I'll give it a spin tonight!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: T-Man on October 25, 2016, 04:49:05 pm
Will join everyone else in saying thanks for you and your team's work. Only part-way through and already blown away by not only the gameplay but the quality of the little touches like the briefings and the background canon info (naturally I B-lined to the map room the moment I noticed it in the main hall); it's not only brilliant it's the sort of standard (if not above) you'd expect from professional work. I vote you can all be proud of what you've made here :).

I especially like how...
Spoiler:
it has a good mix of traditional FS missions and mechanic-based missions that it switches between. It brings interesting (and well implemented/thought out) mechanics without becoming 'every mission is a mini-game'. Feel you've balanced the two kinds of mission quite well.

Spoiler:
And confession; I was chuckling darkly when I read the CB for 'Bringing Down the Gavel', then grinning like a kid throughout... does that make me a bad person? :lol:
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on October 25, 2016, 06:59:13 pm
Spoiler:
And confession; I was chuckling darkly when I read the CB for 'Bringing Down the Gavel', then grinning like a kid throughout... does that make me a bad person? :lol:

Wait till the next mission... :)
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 26, 2016, 01:16:02 am
Congratulations to the release! - (I will have to stay from playing it because I am trying to finish a release myself)
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: procdrone on October 26, 2016, 05:50:06 am
So this is what mind orgasm is like !!!! Immediately on my download list
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Lykurgos88 on October 26, 2016, 11:59:07 am
Congratulations on the release!  :pimp:

Will try this out when I can!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: fightermedic on October 26, 2016, 12:19:23 pm
Thanks for all the hard work over the years
downloading now!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: FrikgFeek on October 26, 2016, 04:09:17 pm
Calling FrikgFeek or QuantumDelta, please work your magic!

I was considering it. I already finished the campaign, might record a playthrough once it's compatible with 3.7.5. HDR is very pretty so I'd prefer recording with it. Though I might get away by using a pre-SDL nightly(mid July) that still has HDR but some of those are pretty buggy.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Lorric on October 26, 2016, 06:15:25 pm
That's quite something. Years of work to create, a day, if that, to play.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Black Wolf on October 27, 2016, 12:15:14 am
I’m up to the first (only?) Loki stealth mission, I think about a third of the way through the campaign, give or take. I’ll do a full review when I complete the campaign, but for now, spoiler free initial impressions:

The most impressive thing that I’ve noticed so far is the level of detail in the release – it is remarkable. By far the most impressive, immersive Freespace campaign I have ever played, including things like BP and ST:R. In my mind, this comes from two things. First, the absolute attention to creating a universe for the player to inhabit in mission – the mods chosen, the mission designs, the priorities given to the player, even the visual palette changes – these all feel like a campaign focusses on a world we hadn’t previously seen in FS1 or 2 – the civilian world where most people would be living their lives. It still feels like Freespace, but it puts serious meat on the bones of the universe established in the first two games.

This is also helped in a big way by the newsroom and system viewer. Antares feels big and complicated and real – almost a character in its own right, in a way that, location wise, FS2 only ever managed with the nebula.

The voice acting is generally pretty great (if there are a few jarring mispronunciations here and there, but that’s unavoidable), and the missions are tightly FREDded (I’ve had one where it stalled on me – obviously a ship got destroyed unexpectedly or something, but it went fine on my second run through) and diverse enough to keep me interested, both in terms of challenge level and what you’re doing in the mission.

The story so far has been good – I’m enjoying the evolving smuggling/corruption storyline and the Hammer storyline and wondering if/how they’re going to come together. But I felt elements were a tad... rushed isn’t the right word, maybe undersold? I’m thinking mainly about the detour out of Antares; I got the impression that we were being ordered out of Antares permanently, but then we were back within a mission, apparently against order. It didn’t quite feel like the motivations (or the repercussions) for this were explained much at all. Perhaps later in the campaign?

If I were picking things to gripe about, I’d say that I’m not really loving the battlesnails. I get that they’re supposed to be a fun achievement type thing, but I feel like they’d be better suited to a feature you only get when you’ve beaten the campaign and are playing through again, but I recognise that that’s a personal stylistic choice each campaign creator will make differently.

The one thing that I do have a bit more of an issue with (and don’t get me wrong, I’m still loving the campaign) is the tech room. I really enjoy scrolling through the tech room as a way to get a feel for the worldbuilding, but that doesn’t quite work in BtA. Several of the ships have blank (or near blank, “Blah Blah”) tech descriptions, or descriptions that are obviously anachronistic (the one that jumped out to me was the Endymion, which still has the description I originally wrote for it, which is only appropriate for the very early TV War). Slaves of Chaos and the demo both did such a fantastic job of worldbuilding in other ways, to have it be neglected here was a little disappointing. And, utterly, utterly minor though it is, I also kind of wish the ships were in a logical order, as opposed to new ones being tacked on the end.

To be 100% clear though, the issues I’ve come across have been extremely small, and haven’t prevented me from enjoying what is an extremely polished, high quality Freespace experience. Based on what I’ve seen so far, BtA has earned its place in the rarefied company of the very best examples of what the FS engine and the people behind it can do, along with ST:R, VD, BP and the like. Congrats to Mjn and the rest of the team - I’m really looking forward to the rest of the campaign.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CT27 on October 27, 2016, 03:05:19 am
Your list says the optional 720 and 1080 movie packs were updated 10-25-16.  I just downloaded them a few hours ago and the actual vp files for both say 10-23-16.  How did that happen?


FYI, I used the Installer for my downloads.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: DefCynodont119 on October 27, 2016, 04:09:51 am
I just finished "Bringing down the Gavel",

. . .

This is, This is the most enjoyable mission in Freespace history.   :drevil:


Also I like how the background shows what room you are in, Eg, ship selection is in a hanger, weapon selection has crates with guns in them in background, Ec. . .
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on October 27, 2016, 11:14:22 am
I’m up to the first (only?) Loki stealth mission, I think about a third of the way through the campaign, give or take. I’ll do a full review when I complete the campaign, but for now, spoiler free initial impressions:

The most impressive thing that I’ve noticed so far is the level of detail in the release – it is remarkable. By far the most impressive, immersive Freespace campaign I have ever played, including things like BP and ST:R. In my mind, this comes from two things. First, the absolute attention to creating a universe for the player to inhabit in mission – the mods chosen, the mission designs, the priorities given to the player, even the visual palette changes – these all feel like a campaign focusses on a world we hadn’t previously seen in FS1 or 2 – the civilian world where most people would be living their lives. It still feels like Freespace, but it puts serious meat on the bones of the universe established in the first two games.

This is also helped in a big way by the newsroom and system viewer. Antares feels big and complicated and real – almost a character in its own right, in a way that, location wise, FS2 only ever managed with the nebula.

The voice acting is generally pretty great (if there are a few jarring mispronunciations here and there, but that’s unavoidable), and the missions are tightly FREDded (I’ve had one where it stalled on me – obviously a ship got destroyed unexpectedly or something, but it went fine on my second run through) and diverse enough to keep me interested, both in terms of challenge level and what you’re doing in the mission.

The story so far has been good – I’m enjoying the evolving smuggling/corruption storyline and the Hammer storyline and wondering if/how they’re going to come together. But I felt elements were a tad... rushed isn’t the right word, maybe undersold? I’m thinking mainly about the detour out of Antares; I got the impression that we were being ordered out of Antares permanently, but then we were back within a mission, apparently against order. It didn’t quite feel like the motivations (or the repercussions) for this were explained much at all. Perhaps later in the campaign?

If I were picking things to gripe about, I’d say that I’m not really loving the battlesnails. I get that they’re supposed to be a fun achievement type thing, but I feel like they’d be better suited to a feature you only get when you’ve beaten the campaign and are playing through again, but I recognise that that’s a personal stylistic choice each campaign creator will make differently.

The one thing that I do have a bit more of an issue with (and don’t get me wrong, I’m still loving the campaign) is the tech room. I really enjoy scrolling through the tech room as a way to get a feel for the worldbuilding, but that doesn’t quite work in BtA. Several of the ships have blank (or near blank, “Blah Blah”) tech descriptions, or descriptions that are obviously anachronistic (the one that jumped out to me was the Endymion, which still has the description I originally wrote for it, which is only appropriate for the very early TV War). Slaves of Chaos and the demo both did such a fantastic job of worldbuilding in other ways, to have it be neglected here was a little disappointing. And, utterly, utterly minor though it is, I also kind of wish the ships were in a logical order, as opposed to new ones being tacked on the end.

To be 100% clear though, the issues I’ve come across have been extremely small, and haven’t prevented me from enjoying what is an extremely polished, high quality Freespace experience. Based on what I’ve seen so far, BtA has earned its place in the rarefied company of the very best examples of what the FS engine and the people behind it can do, along with ST:R, VD, BP and the like. Congrats to Mjn and the rest of the team - I’m really looking forward to the rest of the campaign.

Thanks for the kind words! Your work has been a major inspiration (and what also made it really possible) for the world building that we worked on. :)

Per the trip out of Antares and suddenly being back. I always wish I had handled that better. I really needed the player to visit a particular couple of systems in order to add in a couple story threads that I'll follow up on should I make the next couple chapters. It also gave me a reason to add in a familiar weapon.. but you're right, the trip back to Antares isn't very well explained. Oh well!

Battlesnails are pretty easily skip-able, though, right? You might bump into one or two on your first playthrough and then go find them the next time around. But I guess since they also grant a slightly extended ending, it creates a higher motivation to find them the first time? I understand how that can be annoying.

I really wish I hadn't overlooked the tech room. I'll fix it up soon once I've had a chance to follow up on reported bugs and issues. For all the work we did to make it feel polished, missing this is a bummer! But it's also something pretty easy to remedy. :)

But I'm glad you're enjoying it!

I just finished "Bringing down the Gavel",

. . .

This is, This is the most enjoyable mission in Freespace history.   :drevil:


Also I like how the background shows what room you are in, Eg, ship selection is in a hanger, weapon selection has crates with guns in them in background, Ec. . .


Bring down the Gavel has been a standout for most players so far. It's definitely one of my favorites. And I'm happy someone noticed the backgrounds!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Thisisaverylongusername on October 27, 2016, 11:53:17 am
Bringing down the Gavel was definitely one of my favorites from this mod, and my second favorite FS mission so far (behind Con Fuoco from VD).
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Solatar on October 30, 2016, 12:50:11 pm
I like what you did with the Prometheus R, it's super useful against bombers in Camp Angel. :yes:
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Black Wolf on October 30, 2016, 11:57:32 pm
The Angel One mission has given me a new appreciation for sentry cannons. I tried being thematic and using all the tools available multiple times and couldn't beat the mission. Eventually, annoyed with the number of bombs that were getting through, I invested all of my points into spamming sentry cannons around the outpost.

Stopped the bombs (and the bombers) very effectively. :)
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: DefCynodont119 on October 31, 2016, 05:09:27 am
The Angel One mission has given me a new appreciation for sentry cannons. I tried being thematic and using all the tools available multiple times and couldn't beat the mission. Eventually, annoyed with the number of bombs that were getting through, I invested all of my points into spamming sentry cannons around the outpost.

Stopped the bombs (and the bombers) very effectively. :)

I have found that a large maze of armor panels is useful too, the cruisers are just not maneuverable enough to avoid them if you spam panels all over the entry points.*

You can also be quite tactical in this mission by ordering your fighters too play offensive, and using only the automated turrets for defense, or vice-versa. 



*HOL Captain: Prepare to meet your doom and die a horrible de- hey, what the?
Oh fudge, I should not have cheated in the slalom part of my flight exam. . .
Uhh, All hands brace for-
ah forget it. PRAISE THE DESTROYERS!
[Ramming sound]
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: [Wolf]Maverick on November 05, 2016, 02:54:54 pm
Is there an option to skip all the Artillery practice in "Groundhog Day" and go straight to the mission? Thanks
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on November 05, 2016, 03:22:34 pm
If you have previously completed the artillery practice, it will create a checkpoint and you can skip it. This only works when playing in the campaign though. For various reasons, in BtA, checkpoints do not work in the tech room.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: [Wolf]Maverick on November 05, 2016, 03:26:59 pm
I've completed the practice two times but died in the mission later and one time failed to protect the masada redoubt, but no checkpoint was created. I'm playing the campaign.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on November 08, 2016, 12:18:50 pm
I haven't even started the first mission yet.

All I did was watch the cutscene and roam around the menu and watch the first briefing.

I'm already blown away.

BLOWN AWAY this is totally rad awesome! I dunno what else to say, this is super neat! Thanks a ton, BtA team!  :D
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Lepanto on November 09, 2016, 03:41:57 pm
I haven't even started the first mission yet.

All I did was watch the cutscene and roam around the menu and watch the first briefing.

I'm already blown away.

BLOWN AWAY this is totally rad awesome! I dunno what else to say, this is super neat! Thanks a ton, BtA team!  :D

Thanks a bunch! :D Nice to hear that people love BtA! Would like to hear your full opinions once you're done!

Please do check the system viewer as it updates during the campaign. It really fleshes out Antares as a living, breathing, developing entity, and shows you the consequences of your missions. /shamelessselfpromotion


P.S. mjn, could you please get back to me about the project I'd PMed you about?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on November 10, 2016, 09:17:32 am
System viewer, Newsroom - I'm stunned by the amount of work you guys put into this! I'm dealing with a real, fluid, human crisis here, and my actions affect how civilians view the GTA.

I finished the second mission already. Thanks for all the targeting aids, that made finding my objectives a lot easier. Mission layout is awesome, you guys have a real grip on 6DOF.

And pre-rendered cutscenes! ZOMG I feel like I'm playing FS1 (my favorite of the two games) all over again. Thanks, this is like an early Christmas gift!  :D
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on November 10, 2016, 09:44:24 am
I got a little lazy with the later cutscenes... hope that doesn't disappoint. I just really needed to get this mod finished as it had taken 5 years of my modding life. :)
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: FrikgFeek on November 10, 2016, 03:35:42 pm
Quote from: PVD_Hope
  Mission layout is awesome, you guys have a real grip on 6DOF.

6DOF is a measure of movement, so I'm pretty sure you just meant 3D space. No ships in BtA have 6DOF, the most you get is 4DOF.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on November 10, 2016, 05:32:52 pm
What he likely means is that we actively tried to avoid the usual space-sim "gotcha" where all the ships and objects, more or less, exist on a single plane on the Y axis.

In our missions, Slasher and I actively tried to make sure our characters would be aware they could go up, they could down, the could attack from any direction. (Camp Angle kinda defies this, but whatareyagonnado?)
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: FrikgFeek on November 10, 2016, 05:40:27 pm
Camp Angel can't not defy that as you only have 2 entry points. Whichever 2 you select will only form 1 plane and all ships will have to come out and be on that plane. The only way to defy that would be to have 3 or more entry points but that would probably just be evil.

Though it doesn't defy it in the sense that putting your 10 cost defence stations "above" that plane is rather effective compared to only thinking inside of it.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: pim on November 11, 2016, 02:00:24 pm
Hi.
 Just finished your champaign. Well matured, well served. Creamy, with full and complex taste. First choice for each connoisseur:-).
 Last quick check of your western back yard if your harvest hasn't been contested by snails but what do I see there? How did dead ZOD get into your industrial waste cargo:-o ?

I really enjoyed playing. Both play wise and story wise it was wonderfully mixed and balanced. Each small detail was perfected and new features like system map reflecting recent events added to the story so much depth. I almost felt like beeing in Antares:-). Thanks.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on November 11, 2016, 02:14:16 pm
I"m glad you liked it!

The uh... zod in the waste can exists around Antares Station somewhere. Find him during a campaign playthrough to unlock a bonus arcade mission. :)
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: pim on November 11, 2016, 02:25:53 pm
Oh, really? I saw it just in
Spoiler:
How the West was lost near Midwinter station
and it didn't unlock anything I'd noticed. So there is somewhere else another one?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on November 11, 2016, 02:36:22 pm
Oh, really? I saw it just in
Spoiler:
How the West was lost near Midwinter station
and it didn't unlock anything I'd noticed. So there is somewhere else another one?

Wow, Slasher snuck one in that mission and I never noticed! The not unlocking is definitely a bug and I can see why. It'll be fixed in the next patch. But yes, he and his 2 friends exist in missions that take place at Antares Station.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: pim on November 11, 2016, 02:42:32 pm
Such an unhappy companion. Peace for their souls...
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on November 12, 2016, 08:07:13 pm
What he likely means is that we actively tried to avoid the usual space-sim "gotcha" where all the ships and objects, more or less, exist on a single plane on the Y axis.

In our missions, Slasher and I actively tried to make sure our characters would be aware they could go up, they could down, the could attack from any direction. (Camp Angle kinda defies this, but whatareyagonnado?)

Uh yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry, I was thinking Descent. :P
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: perihelion on November 24, 2016, 12:46:34 pm
Finally finished this campaign!  I really liked all of the attention to detail.  I especially liked that you gave the Aldebaran star system so much depth.  It's the first time I've played a campaign (outside of those that focused on Sol) where star systems actually seem like proper systems with multiple planets and colonies and internal politics of their own rather than just monolithic bodies.  The consequences of the Great War and the T-V war seemed a lot more realized on a visceral nuts and bolts level rather than just as abstract political games played by the two cultures' political elite.

The overall story itself did not particularly grab me in and of itself (I am much more fascinated by stories about the Shivans), but the day-to-day tragedies, the hurt, frustration, and anger from the civilian population, the refugee camps... all that hits kind of close to home, doesn't it?  The details, the op-eds, the system map, the background chatter, the debris fields in the background, the utter impossibility of trying to protect a civilian population that large with resources that small... in the end, that's what drew me in more than anything else.

Well written, and very well executed.  My hat's off to you, sirs!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CT27 on November 24, 2016, 03:29:15 pm
If there is a sequel someday it will be interesting to see how we go from where things are at the ending to the GTVA.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: starlord on November 24, 2016, 05:18:21 pm
Actually isn't BTA supposed to be a 3 part story, with SOC being number one?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Thisisaverylongusername on November 26, 2016, 07:39:34 pm
One small nitpick:
In Operation Templar, the Subach HL-7 was unavailable, yet it's available here. Had it not reached mass production by the time Operation Templar was conducted?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on December 08, 2016, 02:22:49 pm
Just finished playing, just chipping in to say: terrific work, guys! Great idea to build a story around the Terran blocs during the Reconstruction - it is a very underused piece of Freespace lore, despite offering so many possibilities. Interesting (risky?) choice to tie it up with the HoL this way - but the story really pulled it off, didn't need to suspend disbelief for a bit :) Even while at work, I found myself thinking of the campaign and how it would continue. The Newsroom was a great addition - it really helps to set the scene and background of what is happening, it's a really good way to communicate the events unfolding around the story. The System Map I found somewhat less useful, but it's a beautiful piece of scripting nonetheless.

Gameplay-wise, you really brought FS combat into 2016; instead of the classic "protect the ship" or "take out the beams" objectives, almost every mission offered something novel and interesting, and always perfected and balanced to very high standards. Good balance between fast-paced and 'suspense' scenarios too - it never got boring, and I really like how it heats up towards the climax. Even though I had to replay some missions 5+ times (being the terrible pilot that I am), I never once was tempted to skip a mission. I also loved the little touches ("Pilot, watch Cancer wing, they're getting too close") that really make a mission feel interactive, even if you stray from the set up mission path - it shows how much thought and testing has gone into all this.

Again: splendid work guys, I've had a really good time playing!  Here's hoping for a sequel :D
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: -Joshua- on January 29, 2017, 03:21:39 am
Hi! I've just finished playing Mephistoles* and I have started with Slaves of Chaos. I thus far have one little issue: I have a 1440P screen, and possibly as a result the text size of the fiction viewer/newsroom is very small! The briefing texts are fine, but the newsroom is a bit hard on the eyes.

*) Mephistoles was quite a lot of fun! I love what you did with the campaign, the very unusual mission design did a great job at breaking the usual pace of FS2. I did expect a little bit of a consequence for just shooting down the fighters at the debris field rather then doing what they asked of me, but that's the only tidbit I have and I could just have completely missed the consequences for pissing of a crime lord...

... Unless that stuff carries over into Slaves of Chaos somehow.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Luis Dias on January 29, 2017, 04:54:24 am
Started Slaves of Chaos... I have to see if I did something wrong. Some texts overlap, and I'm pretty sure I am not playing it at 1920x1080 for some obscurious reason. (e: to be clear here: I'm 100% sure the wrongness is on my end, I paid little attention before jumping to the game)

Nevertheless, first mission was quite tight - there are obvious game mechanics whose job is to have you on a tight leash so you don't do anything other than listening or watching the visual goodies that you took so good care of ;), while placing you exactly where you should be before actual action starts off.

The backstory seems a bit hamfisted and stuffed into pilot chatter - I'm having trouble believing that all of this rehashing of what is going on politically would be revealed to you as a pilot only when you'd be up there on your ship, by your squadmates no less, but that's an ongoing problem of storytelling in freespace mechanics - but it is solid backstory. It has structure and meat, it feels like something that makes me interested in figuring out more of.

I enjoyed especially the tension you created between the Alliance and local governance, that not only makes the story interesting, it made gameplay interesting. Should I shoot those incoming wings or not? They are attacking but Command is telling me to wait. That tension is great. I ended up using the same mechanic as with the freighter - shooting in front of them so that they'd back off from whatever they were shooting at, but not directly at them, at least until I was given an order to do so. I liked that detail wherein Command gave the green light anyway. It's tension through bureaucratic shenanigans, endangering lives through lapses of time while these idiots are busy deciding whether if we should do our jobs or not. It also feels like something very topical...

And, as obvious, the production quality is just over the top. I'm enjoying it! I'll let you know my thoughts after playing mission 2 (which may well be just the next week, I'm sorry ;)).
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Novachen on February 01, 2017, 02:19:44 pm
Because i am translating this campaign into german and translate the first act of this, so the first five missions.

I am asking, what happend to the three Bonus missions, you can unlock after you have find (nearly) all Snails? They have a loading screen, there are scripts for this missions, but actually there is no mission file :lol:

Were they forgotten? Was this idea scrapped and this files are only leftovers or are they planned only for a later update?


The last mission of this act, was the best one so far. Simply because of the multiple-choice communication after you reached the HoL base :).

Actually i think it would be better maybe if the missions have the active "Mission Ends to Mainhall"-flag, because there are changes on the System Map in every mission, you would miss otherwise. Also after nearly every mission there is a new entry in the News Room anyway.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 01, 2017, 03:47:46 pm
The bonus mission files are hidden. :) They are there, though.

You should also be able to access the System Viewer and the Newsroom from either briefing screen, iirc.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 01, 2017, 04:44:07 pm
The bonus mission files are hidden. :)

That's dope af
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Novachen on February 01, 2017, 06:15:04 pm
The bonus mission files are hidden. :) They are there, though.

But not in the mission folder in the VP... so, there are spawing out of the scripts or they are so well hidden, that even the VP knows nothing about them. :)

Quote
You should also be able to access the System Viewer and the Newsroom from either briefing screen, iirc.

Oh, okay... i have to admit that i play the missions for spelling-testing reasons primarily in the mission simulator currently. So i was not aware of that until know. Good to know. Then that would be a different story. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 01, 2017, 07:00:53 pm
The options to view the System Viewer and Newsroom only appear in the briefing room while playing from the Ready Room.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on February 01, 2017, 07:32:23 pm
The bonus mission files are hidden. :) They are there, though.

But not in the mission folder in the VP... so, there are spawing out of the scripts or they are so well hidden, that even the VP knows nothing about them. :)
Well, they wouldn't be very hidden if you could just open up the .VP and look at them, would they?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: niffiwan on February 01, 2017, 07:45:20 pm
The bonus mission files are hidden. :) They are there, though.

But not in the mission folder in the VP... so, there are spawing out of the scripts or they are so well hidden, that even the VP knows nothing about them. :)
Well, they wouldn't be very hidden if you could just open up the .VP and look at them, would they?

You've certainly aroused my curiosity as to how & where they have been hidden :)
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Novachen on February 02, 2017, 11:34:59 am
The bonus mission files are hidden. :) They are there, though.

But not in the mission folder in the VP... so, there are spawing out of the scripts or they are so well hidden, that even the VP knows nothing about them. :)
Well, they wouldn't be very hidden if you could just open up the .VP and look at them, would they?

Actually... yes. For the normal user.

But i am not a normal user, because i have to translate even the most hidden missions if i want to release a translated version of this campaign  :nervous:
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 03, 2017, 11:45:27 am
I'm installing this **** RIGHT NOW, get ready for a full page of double druple quintuple posts.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 03, 2017, 03:04:14 pm
U got some placeholder tech descriptions on the Exos, Acheron, Aurland, Nareos, and Neta. I am of course reading all the words first!

I thought the first mission of Mephistophele was quite pleasant on insane - reasonable loadout, no ****ty gotchas. The drones were maybe a weeee bit slow for a 'press butan to destroy' option, and I was sad I never actually got to see them work. The Apollos were also dumb as rocks, but hey.

I (of course) loved the CB for the second mission: thought it was the strongest writing so far. It sold me on the broader authorities and on the looming menace about to drop on our heads. These kinds of 'found document' styles really work for me.

I really like the Mako's defensive weapons!

Nice intro. The difficulty curve was pleasantly smooth. These missions remind of the derelict/sync days, in a good way.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 03, 2017, 06:07:25 pm
Oh yeah.. last minute ship additions.. Ooops. I should fix those tech entries someday. :)

Mephistphele is a gem of a little story. Slasher did an excellent job creating that from a small paragraph summary we handed him.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 05, 2017, 05:02:31 pm
Dog is that Admiral Darkblade talking? I love Darkblade's voice!

I really like the idea of picking up with characters who've 'survived' the post-ST purge of GTI. There's intrinsic conflict and distrust there.

I (of course) went straight for the newsroom, and the writing's - solidly okay. I don't say that as a putdown like 'mediocre': it gets all the ideas across clearly, including pretty tough nuanced material like the internal politics of Antares and ambiguous attitudes towards the GTA. The line-by-line style is rough, ranging from ok to clearly in need of fix (a dehydrated child slicking back his hair with the contents of an oasis? and a few simple typos) but none of it's voice acted so it's super easy to tweak. Writing is, as you'd figure, the area I'm hardest on - much like a modeler would nitpick at smoothing or whatever - but I do think it's worth polishing, because writing is one of the checkpoints that makes a work seem really polished and professional. The opening cutscene, for example, is gorgeous, but a quick rescript and re-act of the monologue would do wonders to support those gorgeous visuals with solid dialog: it's a little mushy and word-salad as is. WHATEVER though, I still enjoyed it all and it had the necessary narrative effect.

God the system map is dope. What a good touch, it's inspirational and awesome.

Is that Dorothy Conway as squadron leader?

The in-mission writing is quite good so far - but there are a couple plain ol' grammatical errors (what kind of issues is the local government facing?) that jar me out of a good conversation: I know that re-acting is hell, but this campaign's production values are so high it's a minor not-a-big-deal bummer to have script jank. Really cool job making the Arcadia feel like a huge floating city with that cutscene. The Antares flight control officer VA is dope.

I really like the chill music and day-to-day objectives in the opening of this mission. Almost makes me wish nothing would happen! Oh but it did and IT'S FUN NEVER MIND. It'd be cool to have a little rotation on the player ship when disabled - tumbling round and round. I can't stress how much the excellent flight control woman VA boosts this already cool engagement.

Is that Admiral Bei from BP talking smooth about cargo containers!?

The second mission was great, fun mix of dogfightin and regular stuff, I had a blast. Man, FreeSpace is cool. So is the military intercept leading into mission 3 - really scales up the menace.

Loving the campaign so far. Over the past week or two there was (another) kerfuffle over how nobody's playing FreeSpace, and as usual the lay theory that good campaigns intimidate people was thrown out. Playing BtA really reinforces how utterly hogwash that must be. I can't imagine starting off on FSO with this campaign and not wanting to play more, do more, explore how FRED works. It's good and makes me want to work on FSO more.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 06, 2017, 01:22:06 pm
Dog is that Admiral Darkblade talking? I love Darkblade's voice!

I really like the idea of picking up with characters who've 'survived' the post-ST purge of GTI. There's intrinsic conflict and distrust there.

I (of course) went straight for the newsroom, and the writing's - solidly okay. I don't say that as a putdown like 'mediocre': it gets all the ideas across clearly, including pretty tough nuanced material like the internal politics of Antares and ambiguous attitudes towards the GTA. The line-by-line style is rough, ranging from ok to clearly in need of fix (a dehydrated child slicking back his hair with the contents of an oasis? and a few simple typos) but none of it's voice acted so it's super easy to tweak. Writing is, as you'd figure, the area I'm hardest on - much like a modeler would nitpick at smoothing or whatever - but I do think it's worth polishing, because writing is one of the checkpoints that makes a work seem really polished and professional. The opening cutscene, for example, is gorgeous, but a quick rescript and re-act of the monologue would do wonders to support those gorgeous visuals with solid dialog: it's a little mushy and word-salad as is. WHATEVER though, I still enjoyed it all and it had the necessary narrative effect.

God the system map is dope. What a good touch, it's inspirational and awesome.

Is that Dorothy Conway as squadron leader?

The in-mission writing is quite good so far - but there are a couple plain ol' grammatical errors (what kind of issues is the local government facing?) that jar me out of a good conversation: I know that re-acting is hell, but this campaign's production values are so high it's a minor not-a-big-deal bummer to have script jank. Really cool job making the Arcadia feel like a huge floating city with that cutscene. The Antares flight control officer VA is dope.

I really like the chill music and day-to-day objectives in the opening of this mission. Almost makes me wish nothing would happen! Oh but it did and IT'S FUN NEVER MIND. It'd be cool to have a little rotation on the player ship when disabled - tumbling round and round. I can't stress how much the excellent flight control woman VA boosts this already cool engagement.

Is that Admiral Bei from BP talking smooth about cargo containers!?

The second mission was great, fun mix of dogfightin and regular stuff, I had a blast. Man, FreeSpace is cool. So is the military intercept leading into mission 3 - really scales up the menace.

Loving the campaign so far. Over the past week or two there was (another) kerfuffle over how nobody's playing FreeSpace, and as usual the lay theory that good campaigns intimidate people was thrown out. Playing BtA really reinforces how utterly hogwash that must be. I can't imagine starting off on FSO with this campaign and not wanting to play more, do more, explore how FRED works. It's good and makes me want to work on FSO more.

That IS Darkblade! I also love his voice. He's had a rough couple of years and never actually got back to me the last time I tried to get a retake. Hope he's ok. :(   Was it James Collymore that did Admiral Bei, because if so, then yes. That's him. Great actor!

I fully expected you to grill the writing. Doesn't bother me... helps us do it better next time! I really should do a quick patch fixing up the tech room errors and some of these issues. I probably won't bother fixing anything that's VA'd, though. I'm lazy and there actually might be momentum to move forward.

:O Rotation on the player's ship when disabled is brilliant! Why didn't I think of that? I might have to see about adding that in...

BP (a good campaign) did intimidate me when I first started... a lot. Man, the first mission I made for BtA was sooooo terrible even. This was originally meant to be a small project for me to learn how to FRED and do some of the other modding things for FSO I hadn't learned yet. But then I gave up focusing on how great BP is and zero'd in on the story I wanted to tell and how I wanted to tell it. The quality came from refining and refining and refining. One step at a time.. modpack, FRED, effects, FRED, more modpack, features, FRED, FRED, FRED. It's not like we sat down and shat out a high level mod over the course of a few weeks. I should also mention the team aspect and the immense amount of help I got over IRC. This is a very approachable community (most of the time).

I'm glad you're enjoying it and hopefully you find the rest of it just as entertaining! :yes:
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: JSRNerdo on February 08, 2017, 12:12:52 am
I technically cut my power to shields and weapons, set my throttle to zero, and unloaded my missiles (into the enemy fighters and turrets) and I wasn't shot in that one mission you get ambushed.

Also you left your debug message in
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CP5670 on February 11, 2017, 10:58:12 am
This is a fantastic campaign. It has a level of polish and detail beyond almost anything I've seen in FS campaigns. The briefings give a lot of context to the events leading to the missions and tie into various canonical events. For me, the best thing is how well the whole story holds together and how believable various events and people's reactions to them are (most campaigns invariably have something jarring that doesn't fit in or make sense, but that was never the case here). The system map and news room add a lot to the world and give a great sense of the situation in Antares from the perspective of ordinary people, as opposed to the briefings from the GTA's point of view. I like all the custom interface artwork and the voice acting and music is very good too. The music in the last mission is especially perfect and fitting for the situation. The mission difficulty is fairly easy and the FS1-era weapons make the game more slow-paced in general, except for the very last part with guiding the torpedos, which took me several tries to get right without being killed. Like others, my favorite mission is the Arris Gavel one. His reactions are hilarious and he has outstanding voice acting as well. The optional SOC-type mission also gives a lot of insight into Ozymandias and his motivations. I did wish that a few other missions had done a bit more with the gameplay innovations they introduced, like the one where you can place walls and sentries.

I got the bug with the lua error in the final cutscene (reported in the bug thread) and another issue in the part where you have to knock away civilian ships with the flail, where most ships were invisible (as if they had no textures) but still had collision behavior. They were not showstoppers though.

Overall, an amazing piece of work. :yes: I still have yet to play the Mephistofele part as well.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 12, 2017, 03:21:08 pm
Ayyy spanish mission names! And a fantastic set-piece destroyer engagement. I got a leeetle task saturated with trying to figure out what was actually important for me to do, but even on insane the mission wasn't too challenging and I got to enjoy the pewpew. I really like the ship-to-ship torpedoes.

Ozymandias is cool but I think his dialogue is writing a lot of checks he can't cash - his first impression is that he talks himself up but can't back it up with a win. I look forward to seeing more of him!

This blackbag mission looks cool BUT I GOT DISABLED BY REMOTE AND SHOT FOR HIGH TREASON I assume because I used Avengers as well as SDG on the engines? Or something? Wait it happened again. Maybe I'm on the wrong build? Oh lol, I was shooting the biggest ships in sight, those aren't transports.

Hey do I hear some Belisarius music?

That was fun! I was afraid the designer had tied Omega's departure to actually disabling all of Beta, but you earned my player-trust by also/instead putting it on a clock.

Oh **** a giant green space vasudan! F10 doesn't target Aries wing and that's really annoying since if you fly the wrong way at start you're ****ed.

This Khayu intro reminds me of Homeworld, in a good way. The deception choices bemuse me: am I just meant to **** it up? Flying in too fast to get near the fighterbay runs you into Cancer. I did several runthroughs and didn't get a good path: Khayu says 'you're cleared to land' then instantly sics Cancer on me. I'm gonna take a break here.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: FrikgFeek on February 12, 2017, 05:00:10 pm
I don't remember exactly what I did but you can definitely pass that segment without getting detected. Well, you'll still be found out once you start blowing **** up.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 12, 2017, 05:16:55 pm
I fly up and over cancer wing instead of straight to the fighterbay. There are also a few moments where I have to poke around to keep my distance before continuing my task, but it kinda depends on what you choose to do with the extra mines.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 12, 2017, 05:21:28 pm
Huh, I got a pretty rapid chain of 'cleared to land', 'cancer check em out', 'they're terrans!' and an RTB order. Guess I better dodge faster.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on February 12, 2017, 05:24:55 pm
Or possibly choose different dialogue options; I don't remember exactly how my playthrough went, but I definitely don't remember being asked to land.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 12, 2017, 07:24:26 pm
Oh yeah, good point. If they ask you to land they're gonna find you out eventually when you don't land or cancer gets too close. Try to convince them they need to keep you on station.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 12, 2017, 07:38:03 pm
I though that it would be perfect cover to fly into the fighterbay!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: hack-wizard on February 12, 2017, 07:49:23 pm
I though that it would be perfect cover to fly into the fighterbay!

Somehow I get this visual:

"Oh hey guys, I know I look like a human and sound like a human, but I'm a true Vasudan, I swear!  Just look at the HOL emblem I had tattooed on my arm!"
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Blastman on February 12, 2017, 11:11:01 pm
Okay I just started playing this and...

Thank you!

There's some really impressive stuff ya'll have put in.  I LOVE the system maps.  Amazing!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CP5670 on February 13, 2017, 10:15:50 pm
In that mission with the dialogue, you can fool the HOL ships. I forget what choices I picked but they bought into it and ignored me as long as I didn't get too close.

I also played the Mephistofele campaign, which is short but sweet. It really captures the feel of being a pirate with limited resources and trying to make off with bounty. It wasn't clear to me why the Vasudans help you out in the second mission though.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 13, 2017, 10:41:04 pm
Are you taking about at the very end? Have you played the main campaign yet?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Snarks on February 14, 2017, 07:05:02 am
Regarding the mission: How the West Was Lost

1) It took me a while to figure out that scanning the cargo containers before dealing the drones lead to the construction workers was what was leading them to bother the crap out of me. Dealing with the drones while getting harassed was ridiculously annoying and let's say some military police brutality happened after a while. Maybe cargo containers shouldn't be scannable until after the drone sequence? I find myself in the scanning mentality from the first objective.

2) Am I supposed to immediately be shot at when jumping to the next area? I am repeatedly told to power down and so on, but it's kinda hard to do that when they're shooting the crap out of me (I also seem to have an invulnerability flag that prevents me from dying until they declare they're going to kill me).
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CP5670 on February 14, 2017, 08:33:31 am
Are you taking about at the very end? Have you played the main campaign yet?

I meant the part in the debris field, where the Thoths destroyed some of the enemy ships for me. I guess it does make some sense, but they don't talk to or engage with you directly.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 14, 2017, 09:04:06 am
Oh, yeah those guys are just shooting down the troublesome vultures.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 20, 2017, 11:36:52 am
Man I feel terrible giving this as my first feedback because the campaign has been generally great so far, but good lord that first stealth mission is ****ing terrible. It's literally just a series of instant-fail gotchas:

Didn't close to 500m before killing Aries? Do it again, stupid!

Guessed one of the answers wrong when you're being questioned? Do it again, stupid!

Got within 500m of Cancer (it is very possible to do this before the mission even tells you to avoid them, by the way)? Do it again, stupid!

Slightly out of position when placing the charges? Do it again, stupid!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 20, 2017, 11:45:14 am
Yeah...I haven't played since I bounced off that one a few times. I think the problem is that it doesn't give great feedback about why you failed and what you can do better next time. I'm not excited to go back and replay because I don't know why I failed the 'answer the questions' sequence, or what I could've done to avoid Cancer.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 20, 2017, 11:47:29 am
If you play a great stealth game (Deus Ex, Dishonored) you'll note that being spotted doesn't result in a game over, and in fact being spotted and trying to escape leads to some of the most compelling gameplay in these games.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 20, 2017, 11:48:58 am
Oh and please make the Aries guys hotkeyed or on the escort list, I hate taking too long to target them and then not being able to catch them. They're vital objectives, I need to know where they are!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 20, 2017, 11:55:07 am
They are hotkeyed, on F10.

I got nearly to the end of the mission and then the guy I was escorting got melted in about 10 seconds by a cruiser. **** that. skipmemymissionyo time.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Thisisaverylongusername on February 20, 2017, 12:01:57 pm
Well, if you do manage to get farther in the campaign (I hate that mission too...), Black Flag is one of the best FS2 stealth missions I have played. IMO, I feel like it plays better than Everything is Permitted.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 20, 2017, 12:02:49 pm
They are hotkeyed, on F10.

Yeah but nothing actually happens if you press F10. (at least not on my end)
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 20, 2017, 12:07:48 pm
It's generally worked fine for me, but I think there's some sort of bug which makes hotkeys stop working until you restart FSO. It's been plaguing me for years, it's not specific to that mission.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 20, 2017, 12:12:47 pm
I fully realize that mission is a series of possible insta-fails. Not my favorite mission.. but hey, it was my 2nd mission I ever FREDed! :D

Though I am surprised you had issues dropping the charges in the right places. That system in place for detecting that is pretty gracious. (I think. It's been a few years since I worked on that.) And Aries moves pretty slow.. though the cruiser killing one of them is a bug. I'll have to fix that. The conversation chunk was definitely shoehorned in late in development of that mission and probably should have been left out. In fact, the entire intro section was thought up by Snail, iirc, after the mission was mostly complete. Oh well!

Get past that one and hopefully you find other missions to like!

And yeah, I'm aware of the hotkey bug.. but I don't know what else I can do about it. I've set the wing as F10 hotkey. I guess I could be a good modder and make a reproducible test case for the SCP guys.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 20, 2017, 12:13:31 pm
Escort list!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 20, 2017, 12:16:29 pm
That's the DUH option I should have thought of years ago.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's a sequence built-in if you don't get their IFF and they warp out, you can track them in subspace and still capture the IFF.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Mito [PL] on February 20, 2017, 01:56:44 pm
IIRC I was too damn lazy to restart FSO every two missions, so I just hotkeyed them manually if the bug occured (F3). Seems to work.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: JSRNerdo on February 20, 2017, 04:23:42 pm
That's the DUH option I should have thought of years ago.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's a sequence built-in if you don't get their IFF and they warp out, you can track them in subspace and still capture the IFF.

Nope! I failed to get their IFF and then just mission failed. I'm clearly not cut out for stealth work, let alone being on the Intrepid at all :(
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 20, 2017, 04:26:10 pm
I guess I'll have to make sure it still works. I know it did when I built it way back when. But it's "failed to get their IFF AND at least one of Aries survives and warps out".. if they are destroyed, there's nothing to track into subspace.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 20, 2017, 04:41:02 pm
Yeah, if I didn't catch them I just failed.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: -Joshua- on February 20, 2017, 06:08:36 pm
I am loving these missions thus far!

One thing that does stand out to me is that there do appear to be a few grammatical errors or quirks in the text, and you can tell by the voice actors that they struggle a bit on those points. Additionally, I know that this is unreasonable, but I do find it somewhat regrettable that you only had one voice actor do the monotone vasudan dialogue. In the mission where you have to extract a certain lieutenant, it gets a bit difficult to tell who is saying what.

Aside from the occasional nitpicks, this is extremely impressive. I daresay that BtA is raising a few bars here.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CP5670 on February 20, 2017, 07:30:34 pm
I enjoyed the stealth missions a lot, but did have to redo them a few times to get everything right. The line of sight system makes things tricky (but is more realistic than the purely distance-based detection in older campaigns) since the fighters often turn abruptly to face a new waypoint. It would be nice if there was a HUD indicator like a cone in front of the ships.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 20, 2017, 07:51:45 pm
I enjoyed the stealth missions a lot, but did have to redo them a few times to get everything right. The line of sight system makes things tricky (but is more realistic than the purely distance-based detection in older campaigns) since the fighters often turn abruptly to face a new waypoint. It would be nice if there was a HUD indicator like a cone in front of the ships.

Huh.. that's a good idea and probably quite doable.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: FrikgFeek on February 20, 2017, 08:47:00 pm
Also, maybe something like the escort bracket script would help. So you can have all the fighters on your HUD even when you're not targetting them.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Mesenzio on March 04, 2017, 04:31:56 pm
It might be a dumb question, but how do you deploy the beacon in mission 4 "Playing Pirate"? I get 3Km away from the transports but I don't know what to do next. I am playing on 3.7.4.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: tomimaki on March 04, 2017, 04:51:33 pm
Directives on left.
press 1
:warp:
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Mesenzio on March 04, 2017, 10:00:33 pm
Hoo boy, you are right. It was indeed a dumb question. Thank you for answering!

By the way, this campaign is amazing!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Cyborg17 on March 10, 2017, 08:13:09 pm
Totally late to the party -- Knossos really helps -- But this is really well done!  I haven't finished it yet, but I love the mission variety.  :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CT27 on April 26, 2017, 03:12:18 pm
I've heard it said this campaign would be part of a trilogy.  I'm not making demands for it to be like this but just for fun I was thinking on what the next two chapters could be about:

Part 2:
You would play as a pilot in the newly independent Antares Federation and deal with leftover HOL forces and some renegade GTA people who are trying to restart the conflict.

Part 3:
The player character would be a GTVA pilot and the campaign would be about bringing the Antares Federation into the GTVA.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: QuakeIV on May 15, 2017, 03:34:39 am
Having just finished it, I vaguely note that that was a freaking amazing campaign.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on July 01, 2017, 02:28:25 pm
New version of BtA released updating for 3.8 compatibility... includes APNGs, H264s, TrueType font, and lots of bugfixes. Enjoy!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Black Wolf on July 01, 2017, 10:58:38 pm
Awesome. Looking forward to this.

I have been playing BtA again, and managed to get past a mission I was stuck on and progress a bit. Wow!

I don't quite recall the name of the mission, but, not to be too spoilery, it's the one with the abandoned Endymion between the two stars. That whole sequence, where the story line kind of comes into focus, is super cool, and changes the way in interpret things as far back as the demo.

Damn this is a well done campaign.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on July 01, 2017, 11:35:59 pm
Thanks, BW! I know which mission you're talking about. It can be a tough on, for sure.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Bryan See on July 02, 2017, 03:37:07 am
Thanks, BW! I know which mission you're talking about. It can be a tough on, for sure.
What though? What mission are you referring to?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: The E on July 02, 2017, 04:30:41 am
Thanks, BW! I know which mission you're talking about. It can be a tough on, for sure.
What though? What mission are you referring to?

it's the one with the abandoned Endymion between the two stars.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Black Wolf on July 02, 2017, 04:44:20 am
To be absolutely clear, this was a follow up to a message I sent to mjn on IRC the other night. I was stuck on... the one with all of the transports heading for the node (pretty sure it's called "To Steal a March On"), and you have to disable as many as possible. I finally got through that one, and a few missions later, the mission with the abandoned Endymion was the one that made me so happy with the campaign again after having gotten more than a little frustrated when my progress stalled out - without spoiling anything, the motivations for characters as far back as the Mephistophele demo are revealed, and the whole campaign sort of comes into focus. It makes you realise that things are happening on a much deeper level than was apparent to that point. Moreover, the setting is creepy and tense, the... inhabitant in the mission is cool - everything really works superbly well in a mission that , at first glance, seems to have very little going on. It's a real testament to the power of setting and storytelling.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on July 02, 2017, 07:56:54 am
It's posts like that which cause me to sit at my computer day after day, doing mundane tasks for 5 years like converting audio files, positioning ships in FRED, or meticulously modelling the cockpit of a fighter. <3
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: StarfuryTH on July 02, 2017, 08:17:48 pm
First off, Im' very impressed with the quality of this campaign.  The storytelling is amazing, and the originality of the missions is a refreshing change from standard Freespace missions.

That said, I'm having an absolutely terrible time with Gerar's Judgement.  I cannot for the life of me complete the mission.  I've been working at it for the past two days, with maybe twenty attempts so far.  Between the three critical ships that need to remain alive, the need to destroy the Cardinal's systems (missile launchers, Nav, and Weapons if I can pull it off in time), the need to destroy bombers and some of the escorting cruisers before they hammer the Trafalgar, the need to protect the Intrepid from incoming bombers/warheads, the general uselessness of my bomber wingmen, and the endless waves of enemy fighters that all seem to zero in on me as soon as they appear, I always drop a critical ship, usually the Trafalgar.  The couple times I've managed to keep the Trafalgar alive, the Intrepid goes down.

I've resorted to dropping from Medium difficulty to Easy, and I still can't seem to keep things alive.  The Medusa is terrible at bomber intercept, and next to useless dogfighting, so I end up getting distracted from bombers for too long while trying to keep entire wings of enemy fighters from pounding me to death.

If Gamma wing (which I can't order around) would actually destroy some of the Cardinal's missile launchers, it might make the beginning of the mission slightly easier, but it still wouldn't help with defending the Trafalgar or the Intrepid.

What am I doing wrong here?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on July 02, 2017, 09:14:13 pm
My advice for that mission is to take the first few minutes and aim your bombs at the Cardinal torpedo launchers. With good timing, you can destroy 3-4 of them before they suggest you hit the nav system. Throw everything you can at the nav system then focus on other cruisers/objectives. The key is destroying the torpedo launchers early.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: StarfuryTH on July 02, 2017, 11:28:19 pm
Been doing that with Phoenix V's and a tsunami, taking out the lower right wing, dorsal, and upper front launchers on my way to the Nav subsystem (which pretty much needs to be hit from the front quarter).  I've got that down to a science, but the rest of the mission is what gets me.  I can't defend against four fighters and take down cruisers and intercept bombers.

I'll give it another shot, this time maybe lob some tsunamis at the turrets from distance and pray that they hit, that way I can reload before things get too hectic.

Edit: I got it, finally.  Had to repeatedly order Beta to cover me and Alpha to protect the Trafalgar, but things finally worked.

...except I "failed" because I jumped after being given the go-ahead to RTB :-|  I assume I need to head back to the Intrepid's fighter bay, instead.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on July 03, 2017, 06:17:27 pm
...except I "failed" because I jumped after being given the go-ahead to RTB :-|  I assume I need to head back to the Intrepid's fighter bay, instead.

Well that's a bug. That was originally intended behavior but it's a dick move so we changed it to just disable the player's jump drive at the end of the missions where fighterbay departure is required. Apparently I missed one. :(
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: xenocartographer on July 04, 2017, 02:58:08 pm
...except I "failed" because I jumped after being given the go-ahead to RTB :-|  I assume I need to head back to the Intrepid's fighter bay, instead.

Well that's a bug. That was originally intended behavior but it's a dick move so we changed it to just disable the player's jump drive at the end of the missions where fighterbay departure is required. Apparently I missed one. :(

In those cases, I turn Alt-J into an "autopilot towards the hangar" function :) player-use-ai, trigger the departure cue, fade-out, wait a bit, and end-mission.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: StarfuryTH on July 04, 2017, 09:23:43 pm
That's alright, had I been paying attention to the goals, I would have seen the "return to Intrepid's fighter bay" goal.  Instead, I listened to the comm chatter and did the default Freespace alt-j to leave the system.  I really do like the ability to return to the hangar, which makes much more sense than jumping out of the area when the carrier is within reach.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Lukeskywalkie on August 18, 2017, 05:13:22 am
Just wanted to say it's awesome seeing campaigns of this scope and quality still being released - I just finished 'Bringing down the Gavel', and like others, found it deeply amusing.  It was also, importantly, *cathartic*.  Like most campaigns with a lot of grit and worldbuilding, this one has the player's side 'losing' a lot, or at least only achieving partial success at various points in the story.  It's for the better, of course, but it also means that missions can wear you down. (DAMN YOU OZYMANDIAS!)  Having this mission come so soon after Gerar's Judgement was smart. In fact, pacing has been excellent throughout. 
It's also really great seeing how collaborative this campaign is.  Hearing familiar voices, seeing fully integrated briefing cutscenes, and some major FRED judo, all speak to the labor of love these sorts of campaigns can be.
A heartfelt thanks to everyone involved for giving your time to this project.

so, small gripes because they were asked for:
*like others, noted a few grammar slips here and there in the newsroom. nothing embarrassingly bad*
*not to whine, but damn Gerar's Judgement is a rough one from a player-attention standpoint.  Freespace 2's core gameplay is at odds with the logistics of space combat sometimes, as more challenging missions typically have more and more enemies, but this mission is happy to send whole wings of fighters and bombers towards the player, long after the original player wing is destroyed.  I finally got through it by giving my wingmates flails and phoenixes to disrupt dive bombers and then spent most of my time nuking cruisers and fending off horus wings.  It feels a little strange for Alpha wing to get so many divergent tasks - I think I got 3 directives in 5 seconds at one point, delivered with equal urgency.  Perhaps Intrepid could launch some fresh fighters on arrival to take a little pressure off?  Then again, as I said pressure is kind of the point...I'm just not sure I buy that HOL has this many fighters and goes so long undeterred by their heavy losses at each engagement.  I really hope I get to burn that ship down.
*Could we get some consistency with function key and special action buttons?  I don't use a HOTAS any more for ergonomic reasons, but if I did I would be baffled at the number of mission-unique key-presses.  Alt-X, no wait alt-n, no just use the number buttons, wait no on this mission every item is on the F-keys.   I greatly appreciate the mission variety, but 'key command inflation' seems to be a growing problem with more ambitious campaigns.
*better use of secondary objectives vs primary ones would make it a bit more clear which tasks to prioritize on certain missions, particularly the 2nd stealth mission (loki visiting an outer rim cargo depot, the one with that lovely cargo pilot chatter.  Great stuff!).  I couldn't tell if I would lose the mission if I missed some cargo or ships and then the priority ship warped out while I was dallying.  Can't have the objective screen spoiling plot points of course, but sometimes tasking can be unclear.

Again, this is minor nit-picky crap written in comfortable ignorance.  I've been enjoying the heck out of this campaign...reminds me a lot of BSG with it's emphasis on the postwar refugee experience, and may be the most successful use of the (largely community-enhanced) reconstruction period.  Every plot point so far has felt like a natural progression.  Thanks again for working so hard on this, I look forward to finishing it in the next few days.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Lepanto on August 20, 2017, 02:17:51 pm
Pleased to see you enjoyed the project. Feedback is a creator's lifeblood; thanks for the infusion.

Did you ever check out the System Viewer?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: AxelFendersson on February 12, 2018, 04:32:16 pm
Wow.

I just wanted to say that I just finished playing through this and I'm completely blown away. The storytelling, world-building, art design, and mission design are all just brilliant. So many inventive ways to push the boundaries of what a FreeSpace mission can involve, while also being consistently well put together, and enjoyable despite being really, really hard.

I have now been thoroughly disabused of the notion that I am any good at this game. Damn. I'm just glad that after getting back into FreeSpace a couple of months ago, I played a few other campaigns (including all the canon/retail ones) before tackling this one. If I'd come to this having not played FS for several years, I don't think I'd have got very far at all.

But yeah, really impressed.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CKid on March 25, 2018, 12:05:27 pm
Was buzzing around using the screencap script collecting screenshots for this month's screencap contest and came across this little easter egg in the first mission. Thought I would share.

(https://i.imgur.com/GoTuBen.png)
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on March 25, 2018, 02:45:01 pm
I legit don't remember adding that in there...
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Novachen on March 25, 2018, 04:51:57 pm
This only happens if you play too much with Battlesnail Galactica   :wakka:
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on August 21, 2018, 12:20:45 am
BtA Version 1.2.0 is going up on Knossos with MediaVPs 3.8.x compatibility and many, many bugfixes thanks to Novachen.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Novachen on August 21, 2018, 01:13:11 pm
As you were not very pleased with some of my changes in the first place and according to MediaFire you did not download the "other" one i send you via PM, i have to ask what you have actually left out? :)


If anyone need a changelog of the various mission bugfixes, i still have it :)
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on August 21, 2018, 02:48:59 pm
I never downloaded it because I had already grabbed the update you put out on Knossos, looked over it, and made some of the same changes. Other things I changed back are things like a line of dialog (sir > madam > sir) and removing bta_assets-ship.tbm. I also fixed a few additional bugs that I found while working on this.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CT27 on August 21, 2018, 08:16:43 pm
I haven't fully switched over to Knossos yet, so for now:  after downloading the files in https://fsnebula.org/mod/BtA and putting them in place of the similarly named files already in my BTA SOC folder...

[multimod]
primarylist   = ;
secondarylist   = mediavps_2014;

To be good to go would I then switch "mediavps_2014" in that last line of that part of the mod.ini to "MediaVPs_38X"? 



P.S.:  I also noticed that BTA files are labeled differently now.  In my current BTA SOC folder files are labeled "BTA1_xxxx" but in the manual download link I posted, they're now listed as "bta_xxxx".  I'm presuming I can swap out the equivalent files.  For example, I can delete "BTA1_core" and replace it with "bta_core".
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on August 21, 2018, 08:26:12 pm
Yes to all of the above.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: EagleCAP on August 29, 2018, 10:46:48 pm
Am I the only one having trouble with the newsroom in the new update?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on August 30, 2018, 10:42:53 am
What's happening with it? I honestly didn't check it because nothing really changed.

EDIT: I see the (obvious) problem. I'll fix it as soon as I can.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: EagleCAP on August 30, 2018, 09:17:03 pm
What's happening with it? I honestly didn't check it because nothing really changed.

EDIT: I see the (obvious) problem. I'll fix it as soon as I can.

Awesome, thanks! BtA is such an immersive lore experience, especially with the system map...need to get the full experience!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: wistler on September 01, 2019, 07:55:29 am
It might be a dumb question, but how do you deploy the beacon in mission 4 "Playing Pirate"? I get 3Km away from the transports but I don't know what to do next. I am playing on 3.7.4.

First off just wanted to say that I'm loving the campaign so far, you guys have done an amazing job!

I am struggling to fire the beacon in mission 4 Playing Pirates, i am over 3k from target and press 1 but nothing happened.
I wonder if I've re-mapped the button and that's whats causing the issue? Does FRED recognise the key-press or should 1 be mapped to a specific action?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CapellaGoBoom on September 01, 2019, 11:50:31 am
I played this campaign a few times and fired it up again recently. However, "Acts of Volition" refuses to load in and crashes my game...attached is a debug. Hope that helps

[attachment eaten by a Shivan]
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: 0rph3u5 on September 13, 2019, 09:38:09 am
So, I just had two days of sick leave and threw myself at the campaign....

First some technicalities:

- I ran in to the bug with "Bringing down the Gavel" on more recent builds.

- I had big performance hits in "The Texas Seven", "El Chapo" and "Going out with a Bang"; framerates dropped consistently into the 10s and with the last one it made mission barely playable.

- I also skipped over "Black Flag", "To Steal a March On" and "Going out with a Bang" because the mission proved to be too difficult (in the case of the last one the permformance hit did play a key role):
Spoiler:
- - With "Black Flag" I had trouble with keeping up with all the stealth mechanics, going so far that I couldn't get a scan as soon as Tyr wing arrived.
- - "To Steal a March On" I had trouble with getting enough transports disabled without being shot down; I tried to break the mission by blocking the Jump Node with disabled ships only build a killbox for myself... (it would have worked if just the cruisers would have actually fired disrupters to away some of the turrets on ships that were disabled)
- - In "Going out with a Bang" evading the waves send specifically against you while maintaining the torpedo decoy just was too much to handle at once. The wingmen just took too long to intercept any target and I got swarmed each time. It doesn't help that you can't really stop to restock your countermeasures and get damaged systems back as you either sacrifce the Intrepid or yourself.



Now onwards to the metaphorical meat of the review.

This campaign has some of the most amazing production value I've seen from the community and it deserves a recommendation just for that. I am not exactly a fan of the realist stylistic choices made (tl;dr: Fiction should never try to cover too hard its own artificiality, as being recognizably artificial helps facilitate access to subtext) but they are esspecially fitting for the story at hand; attempting to make the campaign feel very authentically military works as sugar for more bitter parts of the narrative IMO (more on that in the spoiler tags). This extends to elevating the rather dull visual design choices, making this a very "earthy" campaign.

The story itself is well written and executed with a rather low thrills approach (Don't expect some big twist, though as the curtain is drawn back it is quite interesting), however the missions are very varied and many have nice one off mechanics. These mechanics are well introduced and while they are always "one and gone" most of them are quite enjoyable addtions - and they don't take you away from the core gameplay.
With regards to the narrative there is a big BUT...
Spoiler:
The story very much relies on Ozymandias being a very capable foe, and always one step ahead for a while as he has a lot of steps planned out. Meaning that the Intrepid and Admiral Po have really catch-up throughout the story and makes for a nice arc. (Side Node: I am positively suprised to see a capable adversary whose capabilites don't limit themselves to "biggest boat")

However there is a big bump in the narrative as it beats you over the head with just how much you blunder through the enemy plan. And it rather then involving you further by giving you a reason to see Ozymandias brought low, it felt like an attempt to break my spirit.
I recongize that putting you on the losing side for a while is signficant challange. But I wish there would have been more options to at least claim a token victory in some scenarioes - like "The Texas Seven".

Speaking of "The Texas Seven" that mission was most railroading this campaign had and it really was not a good experience. Having you have to hack your fighter was a nice touch as far as finding a new challange for the player. But on the other hand it quickly went from playful frustration to actual frustration as I realized that the whole hacking minigame was not meant to be beaten, only to be a time waster (I had several goes at it because multiple times I didn't beat until the Cardinal had already jumped out - something to do with the fact that the game reads my keyboard as an standard english configuration).

Summary: I would highly recommend this. It is top-of-field stuff - probably the best out there.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on September 13, 2019, 02:46:31 pm
It always means a lot when someone enjoys my creation enough to share their experience of it publicly. I know you make missions and campaigns yourself. You have a deep understanding of just how much time, heart, frustration, stress, and sleep goes in to putting them together. That you gave it such kind words despite the clear issues you experienced speaks volumes to me. While I don't intend to change the more difficult parts of the campaign (though I do need to fix that Bringing Down The Gavel bug), hearing what didn't work is just as important as hearing what did... especially if I ever get back to finishing up the entire trilogy I had planned.  :nervous:

Thank you for spending your two days of sick leave with the campaign!

(Did you play the prequel 2-mission campaign as well?)
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Nightmare on September 13, 2019, 04:05:23 pm
TL;DR you should clone yourself to make the whole thing become reality~
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: DefCynodont119 on September 13, 2019, 06:49:30 pm
This is actually my fave FS mod over all, I think I said that before, but it's worth saying again.   :nod:
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: 0rph3u5 on September 14, 2019, 09:19:37 am
(Did you play the prequel 2-mission campaign as well?)

Yes, I did ... I liked it but due to how short it was it felt less substantial - it like comparing canapés to a full course meal. That being said, gameplay-wise I also liked it for same reason I like the main campaign as it was varied across the it lenght, and managed to expand/innovate on the core gameplay without distracting from it.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: DefCynodont119 on February 17, 2020, 02:01:16 pm
WOOT! It's here! ANTWERP IS out!

what are you waiting for? go play it!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: -Joshua- on February 18, 2020, 06:10:54 am
what are you waiting for?

I'm waiting for the update to download!

Grats on the release! Can't wait to play through all of it.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CKid on February 23, 2020, 11:17:32 am
Finally got a round to playing Antwerp. Short but very sweet. Nice to see that the quality of missions, voice acting and just the attention to detail of the campaign is to the same standards as Slaves of Chaos. Very immersive. The trailer at the end had me at the edge of my seat. All aboard the hype train!
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2020, 12:56:03 pm
Who are you calling an twerp!?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: perihelion on February 24, 2020, 12:31:50 pm
I also got around to playing Antwerp this weekend.  Excellent production values all around.  Polished.  Bad guys were dangerous despite the lower tech level.  It was vitally important to dodge well, make your shots count, and protect your wingmen.  I loved the pilot chatter towards the end of the 1st half of mission 1.  Beta 2 in particular had me in stitches.  "Um... can we talk about what just happened?"

Honestly, I'm going to have to play through the 2nd mission a couple more times to let it all sink in.  There was so much going on in that mission that I'm sure I missed most of the detailed touches.

The almost immediate desire to replay pretty much says it all, I think.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: perihelion on March 04, 2020, 07:59:21 pm
Hmm.  Subtle didn't seem to do the trick.  Let me try again.

Oy!  HLP type people!  Get off your browsers, play BTA - Antwerp and PRAISE THIS MAN!

Sheesh.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: DefCynodont119 on March 04, 2020, 08:14:07 pm
So uh, did anyone try the included Operation: Templar?  :nervous:


PLAY ANTWERP GOSH DARNIT.   :D
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 04, 2020, 08:16:17 pm
Antwerp is a prologue and not a story it its own right; as such it resembles Mephistople, although that was less dependant on Slaves of Chaos to stand as Antwerp to whatever comes next. As such an substantial evaluation of Antwerp must wait IMO until there is something for it to lead into.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on March 04, 2020, 08:24:08 pm
Antwerp is a prologue and not a story it its own right; as such it resembles Mephistople, although that was less dependant on Slaves of Chaos to stand as Antwerp to whatever comes next. As such an substantial evaluation of Antwerp must wait IMO until there is something for it to lead into.

Arguably the two Antwerp missions are more like an SOC epilogue than a prologue for what's next. It serves both, but as it developed it became more about what came before.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: perihelion on March 04, 2020, 09:36:29 pm
So uh, did anyone try the included Operation: Templar?  :nervous:


PLAY ANTWERP GOSH DARNIT.   :D
No!  I completely forgot!  I must rectify that.
/me dons the Cone of Shame
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CP5670 on March 10, 2020, 10:32:38 pm
I just played Antwerp and the new Operation Templar. Like Slaves of Chaos, this is amazing work, I love the CB animations and the overall level of polish, really a step beyond any other FS campaign. The new cutscenes are great and the music fits the missions perfectly. Definitely looking forward to more of this.

I do get poor performance in the second mission of Antwerp (FSO 19 and latest MVPs, with a 4790K/1080ti). I don't recall any issues in Slaves of Chaos, but this mission runs at 25-30fps and crashed the game a few times. I wonder if there is a memory leak or something, or there is just too much happening in the mission.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: DefCynodont119 on March 11, 2020, 03:41:50 am
I just played Antwerp and the new Operation Templar. Like Slaves of Chaos, this is amazing work, I love the CB animations and the overall level of polish, really a step beyond any other FS campaign. The new cutscenes are great and the music fits the missions perfectly. Definitely looking forward to more of this.

I do get poor performance in the second mission of Antwerp (FSO 19 and latest MVPs, with a 4790K/1080ti). I don't recall any issues in Slaves of Chaos, but this mission runs at 25-30fps and crashed the game a few times. I wonder if there is a memory leak or something, or there is just too much happening in the mission.

That mission is near FSO's ship limit and has some very intense scripts handling the mines, Antwerp mission 2 is probably the biggest CPU burner on this site. . .    :ick:   We never got any crashes though, when does/did it crash?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: Solatar on March 11, 2020, 08:50:14 am
Loved the new release. Everything's polished, fun, and up to modern professional standards. Antwerp was really cool (second mission was nearly unplayable on my rig, but I pushed through it). I also really liked Templar with the added tech and rebalancing of the missions a bit. Made me actually happy to be able to fly a Myrmidon for once.

I know it's a small detail in the grand scheme of all the cool stuff that this mod does well, but I really like the background skyboxes in this mod. They've got all the right nostalgic colors from the original FS1 in-game nebulae and CBanims, and a more retail aesthetic (IMO) than the now-traditional Lightspeed backgrounds that come in the MediaVPs. I figured they were based on output from Spacescape, but they're really tastefully done, and I love how the briefing screen backgrounds match the systems.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CP5670 on March 11, 2020, 10:27:53 am
The crashes seemed to be random. I have the memory dump files, but it's probably more of an issue with FSO than the campaign. The game tends to become unstable if there are too many ships/objects in a mission.

In Templar, I especially liked how the "Brothers rejoice" bit in the fourth mission was made into an actual threat. I just barely made it out of the blast radius in time. I did encounter a bug in the third mission (maybe also in the original version) where if only one of your transports gets destroyed, the mission doesn't fail or let you know, and eventually got into a stalemate with the Tanis where I couldn't damage it past 10% and no bombers were left.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: mjn.mixael on March 11, 2020, 10:38:48 am
I could probably tame Operation: Garden by removing some of the mines where the player is unlikely to fly... I'll look into it.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: DefCynodont119 on March 11, 2020, 12:31:20 pm
The crashes seemed to be random. I have the memory dump files, but it's probably more of an issue with FSO than the campaign. The game tends to become unstable if there are too many ships/objects in a mission.

In Templar, I especially liked how the "Brothers rejoice" bit in the fourth mission was made into an actual threat. I just barely made it out of the blast radius in time. I did encounter a bug in the third mission (maybe also in the original version) where if only one of your transports gets destroyed, the mission doesn't fail or let you know, and eventually got into a stalemate with the Tanis where I couldn't damage it past 10% and no bombers were left.

Ugh, Original Templar had SO many stalemates. . Figures one would slip past. .  Just to help narrow it down, do you know what transport it was?
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CP5670 on March 11, 2020, 09:29:49 pm
The crashes seemed to be random. I have the memory dump files, but it's probably more of an issue with FSO than the campaign. The game tends to become unstable if there are too many ships/objects in a mission.

In Templar, I especially liked how the "Brothers rejoice" bit in the fourth mission was made into an actual threat. I just barely made it out of the blast radius in time. I did encounter a bug in the third mission (maybe also in the original version) where if only one of your transports gets destroyed, the mission doesn't fail or let you know, and eventually got into a stalemate with the Tanis where I couldn't damage it past 10% and no bombers were left.

Ugh, Original Templar had SO many stalemates. . Figures one would slip past. .  Just to help narrow it down, do you know what transport it was?

I think Zeta 2 got destroyed and Zeta 1 jumped out. The bombers may also need a default order to attack the Tanis, or else they end up dying and you cannot destroy it without them. When I played it again, both transports jumped and I gave the bombers that order manually, and everything seemed fine.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: DefCynodont119 on March 11, 2020, 10:12:53 pm
I think Zeta 2 got destroyed and Zeta 1 jumped out. The bombers may also need a default order to attack the Tanis, or else they end up dying and you cannot destroy it without them. When I played it again, both transports jumped and I gave the bombers that order manually, and everything seemed fine.
That's very VERY strange, The bombers do already have "Attack the Tanis" as one of their default orders.  :/   Not only that but a second wing of bombers (delta) jumps in to help once the Transports are gone, and Delta is 5 waves of Ursa's with Harbingers with arrival delays of 8 - 12 seconds. .  Either Delta is not arriving or they are somehow getting killed super fast. . .

Also the Tanis is not supposed to be attacked until the Transports are gone/dead anyway, and it is protected before then. . That could be what you are seeing.

As for the unending state issue:
Just to disprove a hypothesis I have, did either Taurus one or two dock with the Tanis? I just want to make sure because I'm looking at it now and I might of just found a missing contingency with Zeta 3. .
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CP5670 on March 12, 2020, 02:44:09 pm
No, I disabled both of them before they docked. I think the bombers all died eventually, and I called in the Herc reinforcement wing but they could not damage it past 10%.
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: DefCynodont119 on March 14, 2020, 12:00:05 am
@CP5670 The cause of the issue(s) you had regarding Operation: Templar have been found.

Should be fixed When MjN releases the next update/patch.  :nod:
Title: Re: BtA: Slaves of Chaos Discussion Thread
Post by: CP5670 on March 14, 2020, 11:35:38 am
Also, I think the performance problem I was having was due to some legacy FSO flags I had left turned on. I changed some of them and it seems to run fine now.