Author Topic: Starshatter modding tools  (Read 6222 times)

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Offline Dragon

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Re: Starshatter modding tools
OK, what exactly is the polygon limit for Starshatter ships. Also, a tutorial to converting FS models to Starshatter could come in very handy in the future.
Another thing I'd like to know is if there's anything in SS that could limit potential ROF of a gun. Would that be possible to ramp it up to realistic levels (TBH, I found stock guns rather pathetic)?

 
Re: Starshatter modding tools
The poly limit is governed by Magic, which is 16k, but you can cut up the model into detail parts and SS will put them together. I'll try and put together a tutorial of converting models soon. And yes you can govern the ROF by changing refire delay or recharge rate in the weapons def.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Starshatter modding tools
I know I can try ramping up the ROF. The question is, just how much? For example, I'd like to have a cannon that fires at 6000 rpm (about what you can get from Real Life M61 Vulcan cannon). In FS, this is very difficult to get working and requires a split second lifetimes, thus limiting the range. Now, think that it's mounted on all fighters and most capships have at least two. I'd like to know if SS would be capable of handling this kind of load.

 
Re: Starshatter modding tools
Just tried modding vanguards to fire 6000 rpm (0.01 refire delay), and 8 of them on battle firing nonstop caused no lag for me. Vans were firing to targets up to 50km with unlimited power.
Hope thats a good begining.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Starshatter modding tools
You'd still have to make sure they do fire at 6000rpm ingame. I wouldn't be surprised if the engine automatically clamped the fire rate to something slower. Best way for that would be to check if they deal damage at the rate they're supposed to.
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Re: Starshatter modding tools
As far as I see theres no limit in the code expect "0". The limit should be on other factors I cannot exactly tell   (fps, cpu?, accuracity of time measuring?,game exec. time steps?, engine crash?)

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Starshatter modding tools
Add to that some stuff as object limit, projectile limit, collision pair limits... If SS has any such hardcoded limits that is.
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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
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batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
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batwota: oh right :P
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Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Starshatter modding tools
Add to that some stuff as object limit, projectile limit, collision pair limits... If SS has any such hardcoded limits that is.
Well, that's about what I was asking about. Are there any hardcoded limits that I could hit when trying to make things realistic?
For such an old game, Starshatter seems conspiciously devoid of obvious hardcoded limitations.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Starshatter modding tools
Such an old game ? Wut. It's an '06 game.

In HW2 ('04), most of the limits I mentionned above are definitely dynamic (never managed to get the game to crash with a recursive self-spawning cluster missile, for example).
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Starshatter modding tools
Well, I admit I don't have that much experience with modding games from that era (I mostly work with antique titles such as FS2 or Freelancer). Anyway, I'd like to know if there's anything except computer performance that would prevent realistic ROFs from being feasible. It seems like there's no such thing, but I'm still not sure.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Starshatter modding tools
Add to that some stuff as object limit, projectile limit, collision pair limits... If SS has any such hardcoded limits that is.
Well, that's about what I was asking about. Are there any hardcoded limits that I could hit when trying to make things realistic?
For such an old game, Starshatter seems conspiciously devoid of obvious hardcoded limitations.

Most of the things that are in Starshatter  are very definitely dynamic. Starshatter is coded in such a way that it utilizes a lot of the stuff introduced into C++ in the past few years to make things as dynamic as possible; while I believe that there are still hardcoded limits in places (like the max number of debris pieces, or the maximum number of campaigns), making them dynamic should involve less headaches than the same process in FSO.

That being said, however, always realize that you're making a game, not a 100 % accurate simulation of reality. Even if someone says "I tested this, and it caused no lag on my machine", it doesn't mean anything. Especially when you intend to spawn several thousand collision-enabled objects into the mission space. Always ask yourself, "How can I get the same result using less ressources", if we take the example of a gatling gun, then the only things the player will be able to experience are the sound of the gun, and the tracer bullets. If we take a 6000 rpm gun, and assume that every tenth bullet is a tracer, why not just use a 600 rpm gun effect with a 6000 rpm sound effect?
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Starshatter modding tools
Of course, 6000 rpm was just an example figure I gave. On the other hand, I would like to make it as realistic as possible (unlike in FS, this should be possible in SS). It might turn out that the CIWS would need it's absurd ROF for exactly the same reasons as real systems do (also note that, at least in FS, there's a noticeable visual difference between 6000 rpm impacts and 600 rpm impacts, though this could be worked around). While it won't be FreeFalcon (at least not now), I'd like to bring it as close to a simulator as possible (though it's not like there won't be any balance). Of course, this would mean that it might have rather high system requirements. Anyway, good to hear about dynamic limits. I'll try not to go too overboard with them.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Starshatter modding tools
Somehow, I think you missed what I was getting at.

The problem is this: throwing several thousand objects, even short-lived ones, with collision detection enabled into a mission space is a bad idea. ALWAYS. Now, granted, Starshatter is better at coping with this than FSO, but one should nevertheless strive to cut corners wherever possible. The thing about the 600rpm/6000rpm idea was to only generate objects that the player can actually see, and leave the rest out of the equation. Also note that, by making the bullet objects larger than necessary, you can fudge the interception factor by quite a margin.


Also, realism? In a game that features FTL jumps and manned combat starships?
Granted, SS goes heavily into realism, but errs on the side of being a game in most cases. Taking real-world specs, and translating them 1:1 into the game is NOT a good way to start.
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I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Starshatter modding tools
Note, my trick for reducing the performance impact of high ROF cannons is to clip their lifetime and increase velocity. Talking real world muzzle velocities and accuracy, the lifetime should be manageable. My idea is to cut rounds off at a range at which the vast majority of them will miss the intended target anyway. Since CIWS systems are AA weapons, the range won't be all that great. Same with fighter cannons, which would have an added bonus of not being used too often, and in very short, controlled burst. IRL, it only takes a few solid gun hits to down a plane (getting them, on the other hand, is quite a challenge).

Regarding realism of FTL jumps and starships, I already have an idea for this (actually, it's the fighters that are the hard part, warships are easy to justify). Ideally, I'd be able to do a mod outside of SS universe, but since that's a long way off, I'll start with smaller things.