Author Topic: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start  (Read 1483 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
I found a very strange situation while testing:

M 1 -> Alpha (A1 Player) and Beta, both red alert carry status. Red alert mission, leads to

M 2 -> Alpha (A 1 player) and Beta appear correctly with their status like they had when M 1 ended.

Additional wings in M 2: Gamma and Delta (and Epsilon, jumping in later).

Delta is fine, but Gamma is destroyed from the start on. Though they are protected via events... I still can't get my head around it... Why? Delta and Gamma are equal, except for the fact that Gamma is protected. Why is this happening? Any ideas?

When I give them other Wing names, they are fine. They just don't appear in the Wingmen list, as usual... So it's not a big deal, but I'm wondering...

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • This place is empty promises all the way down..
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
Red Altert is a strange beast... and you propabily need someone with exact knowledge of the code to tell you what is wrong

Have you tried going into the Mission Specs-Editor and changing the settings under "Custom Wing Names" in Mission 1?
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
Almost certainly has to do with Gamma being one of the wings that show up in the loadout screen, which means the engine automatically gives it red-alert-carry status, and since it (presumably) didn't have a status to carry over, decides it should be dead right off the bat.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
Red Altert is a strange beast... and you propabily need someone with exact knowledge of the code to tell you what is wrong

Have you tried going into the Mission Specs-Editor and changing the settings under "Custom Wing Names" in Mission 1?

If I give Gamma another custom name in M 1, the ships in M 2 are there called "Gamma", though they don't appear on the Wingmen list...

EDIT: IF I give Gamma in M 1 the name "Test" and do the same in M 2, they are still destroyed at the beginning of the mission...

Almost certainly has to do with Gamma being one of the wings that show up in the loadout screen, which means the engine automatically gives it red-alert-carry status, and since it (presumably) didn't have a status to carry over, decides it should be dead right off the bat.

But in M 1 there is no Gamma... Or do you mean that it IS ALWAYS in the loadout screens, though it's not shown there?

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
But in M 1 there is no Gamma... Or do you mean that it IS ALWAYS in the loadout screens, though it's not shown there?
No, I mean it's in the loadout screen of the second mission, and so is trying to carry over its status from the previous mission (which doesn't exist).
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
Ah ok... Thanks for the information.

I solved the problem by renaming Gamma and Delta, they really don't need to be part of the wingmen-list. Feels better this way, anyway...

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • This place is empty promises all the way down..
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
Red Altert is a strange beast... and you propabily need someone with exact knowledge of the code to tell you what is wrong

Have you tried going into the Mission Specs-Editor and changing the settings under "Custom Wing Names" in Mission 1?

If I give Gamma another custom name in M 1, the ships in M 2 are there called "Gamma", though they don't appear on the Wingmen list...

EDIT: IF I give Gamma in M 1 the name "Test" and do the same in M 2, they are still destroyed at the beginning of the mission...

Okay, that rules out one version of the theory about the cause - which is the same as AdmiralRalwood is saying that 3rd Player wing gets RA-carry-status by default and the engine is just saving an array of zeros for all values associated.

As for the solution:

Place a Gamma Wing (with the loadouts for M2) in M1 which arrives just a second before the Red Altert is finished triggering (if I recall correctly Red Altert requires 2-4 seconds from being triggered to actually end the mission)... Set the flags for "No Arrival Music", "No Arrival Message" and "No Warp Effect" and place them far away from the player.

Try if that helps.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
Yes that solved the problem, now Gamma appears correctly in M2.

The only downside is that Gamma appears at the loadout-screen in M 1, this might be a bit confusing but I think I can live with that...

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • This place is empty promises all the way down..
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
That can easily be solved by dropping a line in the briefing ala "Gamma wing is kept on stand-by" or "Gamma wing is on another mission at the moment".

The second case you can lock their loadouts in the Ship Editor with "Ship Locked"-flag.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
Yeah I already locked them. Thx a lot You two, this helped :-)

 
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
If you go into the custom wing names editor for the first mission (it's under mission specs), you can replace Gamma with some nonexistent wing to stop them showing up.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
Although you'll then need to manually enable red alert carry status for Gamma.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 
Re: Red-alert -> Gamma destroyed at start
Excellent, I thought about something like this with the custom wings. Now it's working perfectly, thanks for this!