[Mobius]

You might like my way of stopping the Sathanas... but it's highly classified until the release of my campaign...

Two ships going head-to-head, with the SJ losing.

Aaaaaaahhhhhhhh...I know...

Read my previous posts,are they understandable for you?

[TrashMan]

2. If the Sath turns around (in game) the Orion won't blow up...they will just push eachother around liek glues while slowly losing thier hull integrity.. and the Orion would still shoot.
In RL the Orion would blow up, the Sath would be heavily damaged or destroyed - either way a risk worth taking for a terran commander.

It might look stupid but the Sath would eventually get the Orion in its firing arc. And in real life, the Sath can face the Orion without changing its velocity.

Eventually...but that "eventually" can take a long time...even in RL.

What does a hive mind have to do with not retreating? It might place a lower value on their kind, but it doesn't mean they will just let it die. And I cannot believe Terrans don't jump out because they are too stupid.

That stupid remark was aimed at Terran Command...

[Polpolion]

Understood?When someone has difficulties writing in English,just use your brain to understand
Mr Think then post

When someone has that much trouble writing in english, it is very hard too use my brain to understand, because it looks like this: I didn't not have no Orions not being shot by no turret that wasn't an Lred as it attacked from both sides right two different mission behind desroyer Bgreen.


@Trashman, usually Terran ships did not retreat when defeat was obvius was because there would be NO capitol ship deaths what so ever in the game. Kinda retarded, eh?

[Mobius]

Understood?When someone has difficulties writing in English,just use your brain to understand
Mr Think then post

When someone has that much trouble writing in english, it is very hard too use my brain to understand, because it looks like this: I didn't not have no Orions not being shot by no turret that wasn't an Lred as it attacked from both sides right two different mission behind desroyer Bgreen.

FreeSpace is a game,when a faction is going to lose a battle they can't escape!
Repulse=escaped
Danton=escaped
Loyola=escaped
Iceni=escaped :lol
Boadicea=escaped
Majestic & Refute=escaped
Iblis & Asuras=escaped
All allied warships in "Slaying Ravana"=escaped
Hawkwood=escaped
Vindicator=escaped
Yo****omo=escaped
ecc ecc

What a beautiful space sim...

[Axem]

2. If the Sath turns around (in game) the Orion won't blow up...they will just push eachother around liek glues while slowly losing thier hull integrity.. and the Orion would still shoot.
In RL the Orion would blow up, the Sath would be heavily damaged or destroyed - either way a risk worth taking for a terran commander.

It might look stupid but the Sath would eventually get the Orion in its firing arc. And in real life, the Sath can face the Orion without changing its velocity.

Eventually...but that "eventually" can take a long time...even in RL.

I took your diagram and made a mission from it. It takes the Orions 6 minutes to kill the Sathanas. From the ships.tbl, a Sath takes 200 seconds to rotate completely. Since it only needs to rotate a quarter of that to engage the first Orion, that's 50 seconds. Once it finishes off the first one, it needs another 100 seconds to do a 180 to the engage the other Orion. So the Sath has 210 seconds of engagement time. Enough I think to swat both of them down.

[Mobius]

This is a theory.We know that when two ships are close(like in TrashMan's image)one of them starts shaking(sometimes both)....
200 secs are enough...an Orion can move(move,not rotate)and get out of the beams' range.

[Axem]

Yeah. the two Orions trap the Sath so it can't rotate at all. Go game physics!

But I disagree with your second point. The Sath could probably keep up with the Orion trying to manuver away from its beams. 200 seconds isn't enough to escape its range and remember it only needs 50 to turn to one of the Orions. If you're talking about the Orion moving so that its always in a blind spot, well it might be able to do it, but I doubt it.

[Mobius]

This means that you understand what I write here!
Uhm:

                                                                          \\   <--- Orion
                                                                           \\
                                                                         
                                                  ----------------
                                                  ----------------   <---- Sathanas

                                                                                 0 <----- Waypoint

If the sathanas turn right to face the Orion,the max speed of the destroyer(15)is sufficient to escape.If we create an entire waypoint path,the orion can evade the Sathanas and take it down.

[Hippo]

Can destroy and will destroy are 2 entirely different options. We have seen many ships jump out when under attack, therefore it is canon that they can do so provided they have enough power diverted to its subspace drives.

If the stahanas is not pointing towards the orion, than its obvisouly not using its BFReds, which is pretty safe to assume uses a ****load of power.

Therefore, there is more than enough power to jump out of the field of engagement (canon evidence is the sathanas jumping out immediately after killing the psamtic without adjusting course in any way).

Therefore it is canon that ships can enter subspace without changing their heading, and in this case it is canon that a sathanas can enter subspace even though it has been using energy rescources to fire very big guns.

So what is the motivation for a fully armed sathanas to sit and take such a punishment from a lowly orion, when we have also seen (more canon evidence from their finest hour) that aforementioned sathani can make precision jumps from inside the same mission area (dont believe me? press F4 next time)? It is logical to assume that if the sathanas wanted to take care of this orion threat, it could then return approximately 8-12km away from it with the target inside its primary firing arcs, because self preservation which exists in all living things (and many non living as well) would not cause a sathanas to sit there.




In conclusion, trashman is still a moron, and I like pancakes.

[Night Hammer]

In conclusion, trashman is still a moron, and I like pancakes.

mmm pancakes....

[karajorma]

I'd like to point out that Trashman still hasn't posted the mission. Merely a picture of one which now suddenly has two Orions not the single one he claimed was necessary.

[Polpolion]

and it looks like he made the orions bigger than they should be... (somehow)

[Flipside]

Well, I think the whole problem is that the AI is written to support the sexp system, not replace. It is, in game terms, possible to get an Orion to take down a Sath, purely by waypoints and sexp's, because the AI is relying on the sexps to point it in the right direction.

Theoretically, it's possible for a Fenris to take down a Sath if it stayed in the blind spot (For about 6 hours), the AI relies on the mission designer to avoid situations like that.

I suppose as far as Capships are concerned, FS2 was not designed for cage-matches, it was designed for scripted scenarios, and without some really major renovations in the AI, that is the way things will stay.

[TrashMan]

I'd like to point out that Trashman still hasn't posted the mission. Merely a picture of one which now suddenly has two Orions not the single one he claimed was necessary.

I lsot that mission when my HDD chrashed, but it's a 1 minute job to make another one. Why don't you do it?

On another note I put two Orion to illustrate that it can be on both it's left abd right flank...and that two Orions cna cause him problems with turning.

In conclusion, trashman is still a moron, and I like pancakes.

Right back at you

[Hippo]

and that two Orions cna cause him problems with turning.

I'm pretty cure I proved that turning is irrelevant.

[Mobius]

The Sathanas escpaes before being destroyed,but it won't do this shortly after the arrival of the Orion(Shivans are Shivans).

Hippo:The Orion may concetrate its power on beams,using 3/4 BGreens and damaging the Sathanas.Taking down its main engine will also make the escape more difficult.

[Axem]

The Sathanas escpaes before being destroyed,but it won't do this shortly after the arrival of the Orion(Shivans are Shivans).

Shivans are Shivans, but they aren't stupid. I can't see the Shivans sticking around just because someone's attacking them.

Hippo:The Orion may concetrate its power on beams,using 3/4 BGreens and damaging the Sathanas.Taking down its main engine will also make the escape more difficult.

Nothing connects jump drives to the engine subsystems. A ship can, in theory, jump out with its engines disabled. Even if being disabled did strike out a subspace jump, a Sath has six engines.

[Mobius]

The Main engine is much bigger than the other put together.To engage its subspace drives, a ship first reaches an high speed and then enters subspace.The Sathanas can do it without its main engines during the game,but in reality it can't.

Shivans aren't stupid,but in High Noon..

[Axem]

We don't know if a ship needs to go a certain speed to enter subspace. It could be some other effect, like the portal pulling the ship in, that causes the ship to go faster than normal. Besides "in reality", engines only provide acceleration, so unless entering subspace requires X amount of acceleration, then that doesn't mean anything.

There could be some other reason that the Shivans didn't retreat in High Noon. We don't know what the goal of that Sath was. Scout out Capella for the eventual Sath orgy? Observe the strength of the GTVA? It could be any number of reasons.

[NGTM-1R]

Shivans can have maintance failures too...