[trillex]

Heya, long time player, first time poster.

I've recently invested in a joystick after having wanted to get one just for FreeSpace since 1999! But I'm having major issues with it with FS Open (Latest, I know that's annoying, but I can't remember the version at the moment. Ends with 10). It finds it fine, it plays with it fine but it got an annoyingly high sensitivity so it is impossible to do anything other than turn around. Changing the sensitivity through the in-game menu does not work. Deadspace works fine, though.

It's perfectly calibrated in Windows Vista (64 bit) and the drivers and Logitech's profiler is set up as normal. I haven't bothered to set up a profile for FreeSpace Open yet.

I've not been able to map it properly either, with the thruster and yaw. It thinks that the entire thruster is one button (Joystick Z Axis, I think it called it).

I've been searching all over the forum for if it is me who has configured it properly (Again, I'm completely new to joysticks and calibrations) or if it's FreeSpace itself but have found nothing.

Edit: I've also tried with version 9

[Herra Tohtori]

You could try the 413 build found in this topic.

The joystick sensitivity control has been like that since retail. It works best when you set it as high as you can handle; lower settings make the control response curve rather strange and abrupt, so it's just easier to learn to control the ship with higher sensitivity settings where the curve is at least predictable. Deadzone should be set as small as possible, of course.

Those builds by Wanderer each have slightly varied sensitivity curve algorithm, and popularity of the 413 build should be pretty obvious.

About the mapping... It should work. Standard advice is usually to select the axis control, click the Bind button and then move the desired axis input, and it should detect the axis correctly.

[trillex]

Thanks for the link, I'll give it a try!

About the mapping... It should work. Standard advice is usually to select the axis control, click the Bind button and then move the desired axis input, and it should detect the axis correctly.

I could have sworn I've tried that but maybe not. Thanks for the hint, I'll give it a go.

[trillex]

Unfortunately, no matter what, it will only detect the thruster as "Joystick Z Axis".

I've tried a few of the tests and they feel great. Gonna try some more.

Suppose it just takes some getting used to.

[Herra Tohtori]

Just to make sure:

Absolute Throttle is the axis you want to bind your throttle lever on. Thrusters are on/off at the moment, so no axis binds on them.

Yaw (or Turn) on the other hand should be recognized quite normally on the X axis. Twist handle you might need to set manually to Bank Axis (which is the same as roll). But there shouldn't be any reason at all for the game not to recognize it.

This is what I see on my game's config:



I use a Saitek Cyborg Evo so it's a bit different in axis naming conventions, but a Logitech Force 3D stick worked fine when I tried it. If all else fails I might have to dig up the old Force 3D Pro that I have stowed somewhere, and see if it works on my system with FS2_Open. Although I do not remember having any difficulty ever setting up axes for Extreme 3D Pro and it uses pretty much the same axis names and configuration as Force 3D Pro.

About the only thing I can think of that could affect things like this is your operating system. Vista or XP?

[trillex]

I think it's just me who's been a bit stupid, but I thought that relative thruster speed should be adjusted to the negative axis on the thruster - but that is not the case. How annoying I didn't realize that.

The sensitivity is still quite high and is really hard to get used to, but that might be because I use a relatively small sensitivity on my mouse in other games.

I'm using Vista.

[Mongoose]

I think it's just me who's been a bit stupid, but I thought that relative thruster speed should be adjusted to the negative axis on the thruster - but that is not the case. How annoying I didn't realize that.

The relative thruster axis would be used if you were intending to use the equivalent of a mouse scrollwheel for your throttle; it increases or decreases your ship's speed relative to where it is at the present moment.  In contrast, the absolute throttle access is what you'd use for something like a joystick throttle, which operates between two physical constraints.

[Herra Tohtori]

The sensitivity is still quite high and is really hard to get used to, but that might be because I use a relatively small sensitivity on my mouse in other games.

Wait, are you using joystick or mouse for controlling the ship?

For mouse control, you should set the sensitivity to as high as possible, but learn to move the mouse at the same speed as the ship turns. Moving the mouse any faster will not turn the ship any faster, you'll just run out of room faster and have to lift the mouse around the table much more than you would ideally need to.

And this might sound silly but you did notice that mouse sensitivity and joystick sensitivity are completely separate from each other?

Also, do you mean that the 413 build is giving you strange sensitivity curve? I myself liked playing with that build at about the middle sensitivity setting, although like I said, I'm used to linear control response - and my Saitek stick has a bit wider range of motion than Force 3D Pro does, so it's more accurate and easier to handle. Not to mention that there is no Force Feedback system to create any "notches" that the stick tends to settle on easier than on other parts of it's motion range.

BTW, I once tried playing some games (Sturmovik, some driving games, FS2) with a force feedback stick. Two, actually. Wingman Force3D and Logitech Force3D Pro. It was horrible on both accounts. The mechanism is way too loose and rigid at the same time, creating non-uniform return forces and the result is that fine control of the stick is all but impossible, which sucks. So maybe what you're experiencing is partly the stick's fault... do you have a non-force feedback stick at hand? You might want to test if there's any significant difference...

Of course, if you like the meager feedback effects of FreeSpace2, it's your choice.

[trillex]

I'm using a joystick and I realize which sensitivity bar I should use. Throttle works now.

You might be in on something. The joystick does feel horribly inaccurate in the 2 games I've played it (yet even more in FS, because I cannot turn the sensivity even further down) but at least in HAWXs, I felt like I could do something.

So what you are saying, is that this is probably not the best joystick to use. At all. In any game. Problem is, I work in a computer store, so I can get a discount, but we only really sell Logitech joysticks.

The force feedback is a bit -- bad in FS, but I know that force feedback is making or breaking a steering wheel in racing games, so I figured it was best to buy it with it.

But Saitek, you all say?

[Herra Tohtori]

Saitek Cyborg Evo is known for offering reasonably good quality on very affordable prices ($20-30 these days I think) and in general Saitek sticks are the same, even the HOTAS setups are somewhat cheaper than comparatible setups from CH or Thrustmaster.

I have used Cyborg Evo for years with very satisfying results, although I have done some modifications on it; first of all the return spring gimbal mechanism loosens up in use and the stick's mechanical centering zone gets looser. Problem solved by removing all the return springs from the stick, both the main gimbal and the twist handle spring. This also helped in flight simulators because while I keep my hand on the stick I can use it for trim much more effectively than pressing against the springs all the time.

Also, the mechanical durability of the primary trigger on Cyborg Evo is rather questionable.

On a bit more sophisticated side, Saitek Aviator has dual throttles and buttons in switch form, and it might be my next aquisition... Although Saitek has also released a new Cyborg X stick which has two throttle levers as well and looks pretty sweet. That is, if I don't decide to go all out and get the X-52 HOTAS setup and pedals. If I ever get the money.


But yeah, in general I have had only bad experiences regarding Logitech sticks. Their electronic integrity seems to be very very questionable, which is a damn shame because mechanically and ergonomically they are in fact very good. Saitek sticks in general don't seem to have as sturdy bases and the cosntruction is mechanically lighter - but ergonomics and mechanical durability will not help at all if the stick's electronics returns huge amounts of noise, jitter and other erroneous inputs to the system. Also, as I took apart one terminally dead Logitech stick and my previous Saitek stick in need of repair, I discovered this:



...take two guesses which of these potentiometres is used by Saitek and which came from Logitech. The pots are tiny, and I think they oxidize very easily and start giving inaccurate feedback.


So, yeah. Saitek sticks are pretty much the starting point if you want a stick with reasonable quality and durability with limited monetary resources. If you have money to spare, then you might want to consider something like CH or Thrustmaster... although I have to say that I would feel very strange flying FreeSpace 2 with pedals. Twist handle feels more intuitive in a space sim, pedals have more advantage in flight sims. And I don't know if CH or Thrustmaster even offer any twist handle sticks.

And regarding force feedback... my opinion is that it's just not worth it. I once tried Saitek's Cyborg Force, which was a lot better than Force3D Pro or Wingman Force3D as far as the notched axis phenomenon went, but it still was distracting and still didn't feel quite real anyway.

[trillex]

I really appreciate all your help.   I will give the joystick a week more and see if it just takes some getting used to, else I will return it and look for a better one.

[trillex]

Unfortunately, as I started the FreeSpace 2 campaign, the sensivity seemed even higher than before so it is completely unplayable.

Worked fine in the other "mods", fsport and STR

[Dilmah G]

Unfortunately, as I started the FreeSpace 2 campaign, the sensivity seemed even higher than before so it is completely unplayable.

Worked fine in the other "mods", fsport and STR

Are you using the same pilot for them?

[trillex]

Unfortunately, as I started the FreeSpace 2 campaign, the sensivity seemed even higher than before so it is completely unplayable.

Worked fine in the other "mods", fsport and STR

Are you using the same pilot for them?

Yep. I've heard that sometimes pilot settings screw up but it's worked perfectly for the two other mods.

And it's not even the sensivity, it feels like the entire z axis is faster than x.

Edit: Not z axis, y axis. up and down.

[Rhymes]

Is there a way to adjust the sensitivity of the joystick axis itself, independent of FS2?

Oh, and since nobody else siezed the opportunity...