[Mehrpack]

Hello,
I will make a suggestion for a restoration of a campaine and my suggestion is: Revenge - The Final Conflict.

Revenge is a Epic campaine with 90 Missions.
The Story is about a Commander that first have to fight off the Twilight Hammer and then proced with a Campaine by the Terran part of the GTVA to speer into the Shivan terroits in Gamma Dragonics, the Nebular and the Dual Star System and behind it.
The campine was made in 2000 by a German modder and the orignal Release was in German.
3 Years ago some people made a tranlation and some bugfixing of that epic "monster" but the campaine didnt work with newer Release proberly and the other thing is, that the orignal Modder hasnt the accses and abilites to make new Shipmodels, but today we have accses to a lot of Models that would be nice if they are implant in this mod (like Raynor, Titan, Herculus MK III, some of the Vasudan and Shivan ships of Inferno and so on).
And the last problem is, that some mission are so difficault, that they are near or without cheats unmakeable.

Thanks for the time to read it.

Mehrpack

[Admiral Nelson]

I actually started some of this, anyway.  I went through the first two campaigns and corrected the English.  I got bogged down in the thirsd camapgin in which the plot starts to get really outlandish though.  We'll see what we can do with it.

[Macfie]

Who is the original author for this campaign?  It would be nice to know what weapons and ship changes were made in the current version so we could just use TBM files.  It has to be just table hacks since there are no model files or maps.

[Admiral Nelson]

We should be able to get at that through a diff comparison to the retail tables.  I'll post what I have of the grammar correct missions on the FTP and create a thread on the internal.

[Mehrpack]

hi,
wow nice .

to the orignal author, he´s lost.
in the orginal release was a email address ([email protected]) but the homepage to this address didnt exsist anymore.
then i try it with the denic (the german register for internet-adress) but the adress is register to arcor (a german telephone & internet company).
i had look for him, because i would ask him, if he know about the SCP and if he want to make a SCP version of revenge, but i wasnt succesfull.

and without his realname and the city i cant try to find him in telephone directory, but even if i had this datas, i would say that he still life there.
i dont know if any other people have more informations.

Edit: ah man i should better read, but i let it stand my post here, maybe someone know more about him.

Mehrpack

[Cobra]

I remember having a hand in the bugfixing of the missions themselves. Turned out a lot of the missions had to be completely rewritten in some cases due to circumstances I don't remember.

[Macfie]

I think I had to tweak the tables some to get it to work with the media VPs, but that's been a while back and I don't remember what I had to do.  We probably wouldn't use new ship models like the  Raynor, Titan, Hercules MK III, some of the Vasudan and Shivan ships of Inferno and so on.
To quote our philosophy:
"The upgrades are not supposed to replace the old versions for several reasons. First of all, the FSCRP makes campaigns compatible with FreeSpace Open and also makes use of several FSO features, meaning that the upgraded campaigns will no longer be compatible with the Retail version of FreeSpace 2. Additionally, the Team doesn't want to effectively replace the work of the original campaign creators as an act of respect."

[Deepstar]

The original Author of this campaign is nicknamed SFN-Darkwarrior or SFN-Dark.

He has an account here on HLP click but i don't know how often he is visiting this page.
The last time i saw him was on the official X-Games forums a few days ago. His forumprofile at the egosoft boards.

[The E]

As his profile shows, he was last active 5 years ago. So I guess he doesn' check this board, ever.

[Mehrpack]

To quote our philosophy:
"The upgrades are not supposed to replace the old versions for several reasons. First of all, the FSCRP makes campaigns compatible with FreeSpace Open and also makes use of several FSO features, meaning that the upgraded campaigns will no longer be compatible with the Retail version of FreeSpace 2. Additionally, the Team doesn't want to effectively replace the work of the original campaign creators as an act of respect."

hi,
oh sorry, must i have overread as i read the post, sorry about that, but the orginal author edit afaik all table and say in the game thats they are upgrades variants, i believe if he had the pool of ships/models that we have acceses today he had would use some of this stuff.
the other thing is, thats a great campaine in both meanings.
the immersion is great, the story is great and the campain has a great number of missions.
i believe some new ships would give the campaine abit of polish without that this chances have a great impact of the campaine or that its would look respectless.

for exampel in the first part the are orions mk II, they are normal orins with edit table, i think its a good option to replace them with another orion model.
or the constructed jump gate to gama dragonis, is a normal knossos with a arcadia, but there are human jump gate (seen in blue planet).
then the destroyer in the second part of the campaine, its a hades, as far i me remember in the game its only say thats its a construct of the old days of the great war, but theres nothing about the source, so it would good for a replace.
then as the GTVA attack the hammer of light mainbasis, afaik was there 3 normal arcadias and some "new" ships in drydock.
or the marco polo, its a improved better version of the orignal colossus.

like i say i would say that this look respectless but the story of the game tells about new ships but the author had only the accses of the standart-ships of freespace2 and so he had to edit the tables.
so i think it would be in the end more a optical chance as a real replace, even if they ships have another firepoints and count of weapons as the orignal ones.
but its only my meaning and i can understand if you not agree with me.

but thanks to deepstar we know now the game of the author, if we ask him and he would say yes to replacements, would you think about it?

Mehrpack

[The E]

You don't seem to appreciate just how fragile game balance can be. You can't just replace an Orion Mk2 with a Raynor, for example. Missions _will_ play out differently with changes like that, which means that missions will have to be altered further to make sure they work similarly to what the original creator intended.

Now, what the FSCRP does is to adapt mods and campaigns to new features and reimplement deprecated features in a way that works on newer builds. They try to keep the mods and campaigns they do work on as close as possible to their original releases, not only as a sign of respect towards the original creators, but also to keep their own workload manageable.

As an example from active development, while working on Blue Planet we are going through several iterations for a few models. Every time the model changes, we have to revisit all missions that ship appears in just to make sure they work. Usually, that means we have to tweak those missions a bit. Doing this for a campaign like this is just too much work for too little gain; if you don't believe this just try it yourself.

So. In this campaign, the creator chose thoe models and ships and built his campaign around them. Unless he gives his OK, it's not the FSCRP's job to change it.

[Mehrpack]

You don't seem to appreciate just how fragile game balance can be. You can't just replace an Orion Mk2 with a Raynor, for example. Missions _will_ play out differently with changes like that, which means that missions will have to be altered further to make sure they work similarly to what the original creator intended.

hi,
no i didnt know it, i have edit in fs2 and only a bit mission editing in a other game, so now real experience.
yeah i can think it, but without experience i cant say really something about it.
but the other problem is, the original campaigns is die hard.
and i didnt suggest to replace a orion mk 2 with a raynor, i suggest do replace the edit orion, thats in the campaigns called orion mk2 with a model was look different to a orginal orion, maybe some of the orion mk2 models.

Now, what the FSCRP does is to adapt mods and campaigns to new features and reimplement deprecated features in a way that works on newer builds. They try to keep the mods and campaigns they do work on as close as possible to their original releases, not only as a sign of respect towards the original creators, but also to keep their own workload manageable.

thats i understand, but cant may talk about it? it was a suggestion, not a order .

As an example from active development, while working on Blue Planet we are going through several iterations for a few models. Every time the model changes, we have to revisit all missions that ship appears in just to make sure they work. Usually, that means we have to tweak those missions a bit. Doing this for a campaign like this is just too much work for too little gain; if you don't believe this just try it yourself.

oh thats bad and i believe you, but you sound as i attacked you.
i had only make suggestions and write out my point of view, i didnt await that all what i say came true, i would be nice, but i know that not all was we wish will came real.

So. In this campaign, the creator chose thoe models and ships and built his campaign around them. Unless he gives his OK, it's not the FSCRP's job to change it.

ok but man thats didnt close out to ask and more i didnt do.
even that some of the stuff here report in and say that they already bit work on it, was more as i have estimate, but if you dont ask, you cant get a anwser, even if the answer is no .

Mehrpack

[TopAce]

There's a misunderstanding going on here, Mehrpack.

The E wasn't trying to sound offended (I'm sure he wasn't offended); he's just trying to encourage you to replace a ship in a mission and see how much it messes up with the mission's difficulty. The sentence "f you don't believe this just try it yourself." conveys a suggestion. The Orion Mk II vs. Raynor comparison was an example that The E pulled from the tip of his hat (<-- this is the correct expression, right?).

And your posts don't sound directive, either. We're - mostly - careful with the language barrier issue here. If we don't tell you directly that you're being too demanding, there's no reason to worry about your tone.

[Mehrpack]

hi,
ah ok, yeah make sense .
no problem, i wasnt upset, its only sound so and so i have wonder me so i type it.
and yeah im not a nativ english i tried everytime to type it so good like it possible for me , to bad that we havnt a universal translater like in star trek .
that would solved some problems
my strange english for example, too

Mehrpack

[High Max]

;-)

[The E]

I think you should read the thread. Thinks like that are way outside the scope of the FSCRP.

If you wish to do such a reimagining, go ahead. If you can find others to help you, fine. But it's not the mission of the FSCRP to completely redo a campaign.

[CyberTribe]

Is thos being worked on, or considered to be worked on?

rying to play that one through, but on recent freespace scp it ends up kinda buggy, at least the first part.

In case it is planned to work on it, i've faced those 2 bugs:

1. In mission where you must provide convoy for 3 GTM's with prisoners if you destroy HoL cruiser that jumps on you (not only it's beams, but the whole cruiser) the primary objective (to escort prisoners) is failed.
2. One of next missions - you provide escort to admiral's cruiser, then it docks with GTD Orion class destroyer. Now, on docking it collides with the orion and goes boom - mission is failed, of course.

Also, there's no such nice feature from FS and FS2 when you fail a mission several times - it let's you continue. that'd be nice too (cos of bugs)