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Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Public Development => Topic started by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 13, 2012, 01:10:32 am

Title: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 13, 2012, 01:10:32 am
Zathras 2.5c (http://fubar.org/TBP/Zathras_2.5c.rar) available for dev testing only.  If your just playing the game this is not for you.

To use I suggest extracting into a new directory (something like Zathras2.5) and pointing the mod in the launcher there.  This way you can switch back and forth to confirm any issues with the previous version.  Of course you will need 3.6.16.   

Know issues:

-Multiple warnings from the launcher about invalid flags such as -spec, -normal, -env, -glow.  These were removed and now default to on.  (all of these should be fixed in 3.6.15 r9461 and above)
-Warning about the tech description of the Brakiri 57mm.  This is an old bug that was not caught before.  It is fixed in Zathras but there is no way around the warning as it still reads the 3.4b weapons.tbl first.
-Collision issue with rotating subsystems.  This seems to be code related as the models work with the old collision code. Hopefully fixed in 3.6.15 r9404 and above. 
-Power management issues if the default ship class is used.  This resulted in ships with no shields actually allocating power to shields reducing weapon and engine performance.  Fixed in 3.6.15 r9399 and above,


Changes since 2.2: 
All Centauri ships now have lods and debris as well as some other fixes.  Full list Mantis 510 (http://hard-light.net/mantis/view.php?id=510#c1062)
Fix a docking path issue on the Sharlin.
Fixed quite a few mismatches between number of lods in tables vs actual number model has.

Changes 2.3 to 2.3b
All Narn ships now have lods and debris as well as other fixes.  Full list Mantis 510 (http://hard-light.net/mantis/view.php?id=510#c1070)
Added Zathras-hdg.tbm with extended escort and directive lists.
Fixed issue with Vorchan turret pivots from 2.3

Changes 2.3b to 2.4a
All Minbari ships now have lods and debris as well as other fixes.  Full list Mantis 510 (http://hard-light.net/mantis/view.php?id=510#c1072)
League base, DI Sekhmet and Drakh Fighter now have lods and debrs as well as other fixes.  List in with the Minbari fighters above
Fixed issues with invalid docking points on several ships:  Mantis 911 (http://hard-light.net/mantis/view.php?id=911)
Incorporated emi_100's normal maps for most of the EA, Narn, Centauri and Minbari ships as well as the league base, DI Sekhmet, and Drakh Fighter.  Basically any ship that is fixed in Mantis 509 or 510.

Changes 2.4a to 2.4b
Fixed issues with debris having 0 and negative radius caused by a bug in PCS2.  This should fix the "Assert: Mc->radius > 0.0f, File: modelcollide.cpp, Line: 1233".
Removed lod maps from ISA ships and fixed some issues on them. 
ISA normal maps added. 

Changes 2.4b to 2.4c
Drakh, Brakiri, Drazi, and Vree ships all have lods and debris and other issues fixed.  Also the normal maps for them have been added.

Changes 2.4c to 2.5a

All Shadow, Vorlon, and several other ships now have lods and debris as well as other issues fixed.  The list can again be found in Mantis 510. 
The normal maps for these ships have also been added.

Changes 2.5a to 2.5b
Additional ships updated with lods, debris and other fixes:  TS Capital, TS Dark Knife, Raider Carrier, Raider Battlewagon, GOD sat, Asteroid base, and EA Orion.
Normal maps for the above ships added as well as for a few other ships I previously missed.
All secondary weapons lods either added or have unneeded maps removed.  Normal maps also added.
Removed use of retail Hornet from 3 weapons.  New Brakiri Meteor Shower model made by user42012 now being used.
 
Changes 2.5b to 2.5c
Fixed radius issues that existed on most of the missiles and a couple of ships
Fixed turret 30 on the Vorlon Dreadnaught and cleaned up turrets 27-29 as well.
Fixed 2 docking points on both the DH carriers.
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4a for dev testing
Post by: Macfie on December 13, 2012, 10:31:01 am
The multiple warnings from the launcher are an executable problem and not a Zathras problem.  They can be removed by deleting the invalid flags such as -spec, -normal, -env, -glow from the command line.
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4a for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 13, 2012, 11:39:39 am
It's being fixed code side and this release is only for development so I'm not worried about it at this point.  All the default flags 3.4b set on should now be handled except for -tbp and -jpgtga. 
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4a for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on December 13, 2012, 02:37:20 pm
Okay, I tested the First Ones campaigns with my patch now:

Guardian of Light: Everything worked fine with no more null vector errors! The Dilgar ships are fixed by Zathras and I turned the EA ships a bit myself.

Dark Children: Everything worked fine until mission 4. There I got some weird graphic effects from the moon surface and then the game crashed with "Assert: Mc->radius > 0.0f, File: modelcollide.cpp, Line: 1233", the log is attached. Update: I think the game crashed when a Sharlin blew up.

Speaking of Dark Children, I don't know if this is caused by the new Zathras or Slashers enhanced effects, but I noticed that normal asteroids will explode very spectacular like spaceships now, which doesn't really make sense. Can the game differentiate between asteroids and spaceships?

Also two general suggestions regarding Zathras:

1) The multitude of info texts should be combined to one big readme which includes all the updates, including the recent ones.
2) The multitude of vp files should be combined, if this doesn't make sense, at least the very small ones could be integrated...

[attachment deleted by a basterd]
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4a for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 13, 2012, 03:12:53 pm
Which revision of 3.6.15 are you using?
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4a for dev testing
Post by: Slasher on December 13, 2012, 05:04:00 pm

Speaking of Dark Children, I don't know if this is caused by the new Zathras or Slashers enhanced effects, but I noticed that normal asteroids will explode very spectacular like spaceships now, which doesn't really make sense. Can the game differentiate between asteroids and spaceships?


The game should definitely be using a different explosion animation for asteroids and debris fields.  If you get the chance, please disable the effects pack and see if the asteroid explosions look normal.  I'll finally be able to work on this stuff again tomorrow so that will be at the top of my fix-it list.
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4a for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 13, 2012, 05:52:07 pm
I tracked down the problem causing that assert.  Apparently the latest version of PCS2 up for download is bugged and sets the radius of all debris object to 0  or somewhere close to that.  I should have them all fixed and will probably upload a new version tonight which will also include all ISA ship fixes. 
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4b for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 13, 2012, 11:50:11 pm

Speaking of Dark Children, I don't know if this is caused by the new Zathras or Slashers enhanced effects, but I noticed that normal asteroids will explode very spectacular like spaceships now, which doesn't really make sense. Can the game differentiate between asteroids and spaceships?

I haven't changed any effects.  I suggest testing without the enhanced effects.

Quote
Also two general suggestions regarding Zathras:

1) The multitude of info texts should be combined to one big readme which includes all the updates, including the recent ones.
2) The multitude of vp files should be combined, if this doesn't make sense, at least the very small ones could be integrated...

1.  There hasn't been an official release.  I don't plan on updating those until that is going to happen.
2.  You call 9 vps a multitude?  Each VP has a specific purpose.  Zathras.vp contains all the fixes.  Z_multi.vp contains multiplayer.  Nameplates.vp contain nameplates for ships.  The ones named after users contain their contributions and are named that way for tracking purposes.  Also large VP files are bad news.  That is why nameplates are not included in Zathras itself it would start to become too large. 

Also new version is uploading now and should be ready to download in about 40 minutes or so. 
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4b for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on December 14, 2012, 02:23:57 am
I haven't changed any effects.  I suggest testing without the enhanced effects.

I'll do so this evening.

Quote
1.  There hasn't been an official release.  I don't plan on updating those until that is going to happen.

Okay, but it would help beta-testers too. Right now we would need to go backwards through all the different threads here to see what has changed from 2.0...

Quote
2.  You call 9 vps a multitude?  Each VP has a specific purpose.

The 9 vps are a lot compared to those in the original TBP ;)! I already assumed that some of them are kept so it's easier to change single aspects of the game, but I also had the impression some of them were just done by different people and nobody cared to merge them. For a newcomer like myself this is rather confusing and one even contains only one file, if I am remembering correctly...
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4b for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 14, 2012, 02:38:07 am
All the changes since 2.0 are listed in this thread with the exception of 2.1 which I don't even know if I have a list of.

The 3.4b core vp should have been broken up into smaller ones.  That huge file has caused some issues.  This is why you see other mods (and even retail fs2) separated into multiple vp files. 
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4b for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on December 14, 2012, 03:17:13 am
The 3.4b core vp should have been broken up into smaller ones. That huge file has caused some issues.

I never had a problem with it, I think computers are so fast now that it doesn't really matter :)! Maybe at least the vp with only one file in it can be integrated into Zathras, no ;)?

Anyway, I checked the asteroid explosion and it looks better without Slasher's effects vp so this must be one reason. Still quite a bit too powerful an explosion even without it!

Oh, and I am using the fs2_open_3_6_15d_INF_SSE2-20121113_r9343 build...
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4b for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on December 14, 2012, 02:17:16 pm
Update: I can confirm that the "Assert: Mc->radius > 0.0f, File: modelcollide.cpp, Line: 1233" error has been fixed in 2.4b :)!
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4b for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on December 14, 2012, 05:26:30 pm
Okay, I don't know where else to post this, but I assume that Slasher intends to have his new effects added to Zathras at one point, so this might be the right place. I finished the Dark Children campaign now without further issues, but the new explosions do not look good at all on Shadow battlecrabs. Not only are they off-centre, it really doesn't fit for them to be that colorful! Maybe a toned down asteroid explosion could be used for Shadow ships as well?
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4c for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 18, 2012, 08:43:53 pm
2.4c now uploading.
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4c for dev testing
Post by: Slasher on December 19, 2012, 06:02:34 am
Okay, I don't know where else to post this, but I assume that Slasher intends to have his new effects added to Zathras at one point, so this might be the right place. I finished the Dark Children campaign now without further issues, but the new explosions do not look good at all on Shadow battlecrabs. Not only are they off-centre, it really doesn't fit for them to be that colorful! Maybe a toned down asteroid explosion could be used for Shadow ships as well?

I think the Shadow ships have always used the default ship explosions, unlike asteroids. The Shadow ships should really have their own explosion effect and particle spew, but I'm not sure if both are doable using the current engine.

Also, for the purposes of Zathras 2.4 testing you should have the new effects completely disabled.  I'm still not certain if there's a conflict with the asteroids since I'm getting the grey rock explosion whenever an asteroid is broken up.
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4c for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on December 19, 2012, 02:01:26 pm
The Shadow ships should really have their own explosion effect and particle spew, but I'm not sure if both are doable using the current engine.

If this is not possible, is there a way to have them use the asteroid explosion by changing a table or something? I would like to test this and it might look already much better than the current explosion. Or maybe a combo of a small ship explosion with an asteroid explosion would work...

Quote
Also, for the purposes of Zathras 2.4 testing you should have the new effects completely disabled.  I'm still not certain if there's a conflict with the asteroids since I'm getting the grey rock explosion whenever an asteroid is broken up.

I tested it with and without your new effects and now always got the grey rock explosion, I don't know what happened last time. But I still think the new Drazi beam has too much distortion. Just compare the pictures you posted yourself here ;): http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76693.160

As for testing 2.4c, I made a quick check with one of MAG's missions featuring the Drakh and also with Shadow Dancing which features a lot of the league ships that have been fixed and everything worked fine without errors or something. Good work, FUBAR-BDHR (what does BDHR mean?)!
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4c for dev testing
Post by: Slasher on December 19, 2012, 03:30:23 pm
FUBAR, I think the coordinates of the Nova's Sensor02 subsystem were changed either in 2.4c or 2.4b.  The old Zathras 2.0 model:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img96/2251/z20novasens2.jpg)

The model in 2.4c:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img11/7893/z24novasens2.jpg)

I didn't notice this until a laser actually hit the Nova where the subsystem used to be:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img22/1272/z24beamhit.jpg)

Forgot to mention that the Nova blows up nice now.   :yes:
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4c for dev testing
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 19, 2012, 04:07:28 pm
Are you lvlshotting 800x450 pictures.

What went wrong in your life.
Title: Re: Zathras 2.4c for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 19, 2012, 04:51:08 pm
Haven't touched the nova in ages.  I do remember there being some strange configuration with the antenna.  I'll look into that and see what might be going on. 

Well model hasn't been edited since 2010 so it's nothing recent.  It looks like what has happened here is that the beam hit an invisible .01m cube that is part of the main hull.  All subobjects have to be inside the bounding box of detail0 or they don't get proper collision detection so small invisible cubes are used to extend the bounding box.  Now the ship has the "don't collide invisible" flag so it should not have actually hit that.  I'll check the code and see if there is a reason for it hitting it but if I were you I'd play the lottery. 
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5b for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 06, 2013, 03:49:54 am
Updated to version 2.5b.  All models except for 6 have been updated with lods and debirs.  Remaining on the todo list are the following:

B4:  Basically this model was never completed.  No turrets or subsystems exist except for the rotating sections.  Hopefully we can find someone to finish it or make a new version at some point.
Omega:  I didn't bother with the existing version as an updated version is near completion.
Omega-X:  Waiting to see what happens with the Omega.  Hopefully we can work the new model into this version as well.
KI Lordship:  Multiple issues with turrets and floating subobjects here.   The floating objects are supposed to rotate and appear to not be weapons.  Will take some time to figure out how to make it work if it can be made to work without code changes.
TR Triumviron:  Issues with the turret(s) and making it work.  Probably will require model as well as effect work.
MR Thoughtforce:  Major issues with subsystems and turrets on the model as well as the model being flipped front to back.  Although it has the most problems it's the easiest to fix but will take more time then I wanted to wait before getting this version out for testing.
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5b for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on January 06, 2013, 09:00:32 am
Remaining on the todo list are the following:

What about the effect enhancements? If you don't want to include the ones from Slasher, you should at least consider my own improvements which I uploaded here earlier. If some of these go to far for your taste, I think at least the yellow Drazi beams and green Nial beams should be included, because both are clearly canon and are done with modified picture files only without any table editing which was necessary for some of the others...
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5b for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 06, 2013, 01:49:43 pm
What do those have to do with a remain ship todo list?
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5b for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on January 06, 2013, 05:36:08 pm
What do those have to do with a remain ship todo list?

I thought this was your complete Zathtras todo list :)!
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5b for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 07, 2013, 12:20:51 am
Found several small issues.  Uploading Zathras 2.5c.  Should be up in about an hour.  This will most likely be the last version before the release version to go with 3.6.16.   
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5b for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on January 07, 2013, 05:29:07 am
This will most likely be the last version before the release version to go with 3.6.16.   

So what about the beam effects I mentioned above for the release version?
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 07, 2013, 01:15:52 pm
Not planning on adding anything else for this release.  Need to cut off features at some point and since 3.6.16 is now in RC stage this is a good time.  Only bugfixes will be added until after release. 
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on January 07, 2013, 02:08:25 pm
Not planning on adding anything else for this release.

May I ask you why? Because the beam effects are already finished, are miniscule in size, can't produce any bugs because they are cosmetically only and I have clearly shown that they are canon! Who knows how long it will be until another Zathras final will be released? I have the impression you just won't accept them because I am not one of the old regulars here :(...
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 07, 2013, 02:19:20 pm
Because adding things like this takes time and testing and I just don't have time to put towards that and getting all the necessary bug fixes done.  I didn't even get through all of emi_100's maps.  Zathras was created to fix bugs and that is the priority.  Anything else like changing effects or adding features is secondary. 
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on January 08, 2013, 02:49:41 am
Because adding things like this takes time and testing and I just don't have time to put towards that and getting all the necessary bug fixes done.

But there is no bug fixing involved in these cases: the Nial black-and-white sprite has just been turned slightly green and the Drazi sprite has been turned yellow instead of red. Even if you would want to use my other changes, one look at the sprites or tables would show whether they are okay or not. These are only effects!

Quote
Zathras was created to fix bugs and that is the priority.

Wrong beam colours compared to the show are quite obvious bugs to me :)!
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: Vidmaster on January 09, 2013, 12:59:24 pm
While I never liked this fact too, I would not speak of a "bug"
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on January 09, 2013, 02:13:14 pm
While I never liked this fact too, I would not speak of a "bug"

Maybe, but what I don't understand is that FUBAR and you others put so many effort into fixing model details that only few people will ever notice and any newbie like myself can barge in and wonder why some beam colors are still wrong after all these years. And that although they are quite easy to fix!
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: Vidmaster on January 10, 2013, 12:41:06 pm
When a ship turret shoots through the vessels own hull (which many do), this does not only completely take you out of the game, it is also kind of unfair and breaks balancing. Plus IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE :-)
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: IPAndrews on January 10, 2013, 02:12:41 pm
It's a code bug. On large ships it's perfectly plausible for a turret to be able to shoot the ship on which it's mounted. Only it wouldn't do so because it would be monumentally dumb. The solution is fix the code so that the turret checks for friendly obstructions before shooting. Not forcing designers to nerf the turrets by changing the models.
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: wesp5 on January 10, 2013, 02:40:35 pm
The solution is fix the code so that the turret checks for friendly obstructions before shooting.

I agree, but isn't there some kind of movement restriction for model turrets so they can't shoot, like say, down into the ship they are sitting on? Or some kind of angle restriction for beam weapons that tell them they can only fire like forward and maybe a maximum of 45% up, down, left or right?

And while this is the first time I meet one of the First Ones here ;), don't you think Zathras should correct canonical issues like the Drazi or Nials firing wrong beam colors? Especially when this is really easy to correct? The game is called The Babylon Project after all for a reason, isn't it :)?
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: niffiwan on January 10, 2013, 03:35:20 pm
It's a code bug. On large ships it's perfectly plausible for a turret to be able to shoot the ship on which it's mounted. Only it wouldn't do so because it would be monumentally dumb. The solution is fix the code so that the turret checks for friendly obstructions before shooting. Not forcing designers to nerf the turrets by changing the models.

I thought the "check hull" (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Subsystem#.22check_hull.22) subsystem flag could do that now?
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: IPAndrews on January 10, 2013, 05:32:24 pm
Good stuff. Kindly explain to the Zathras team how it works. Problem solved. My work here is done.
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 10, 2013, 05:42:11 pm
Check hull only goes so far.  If the fov is wrong the turret will still rotate to face a taget it can't shoot at and in some cases clip the hull of the ship in doing so.  This prevents it from picking valid targets.  In other cases turrets were set up incorrectly with the barrels and firing points pointing down the fvec instead of the uvec and/or not having the proper fvec/uvec values defined. 
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: Slasher on January 16, 2013, 07:23:44 pm
I experimented with the check hull flag on the EA Phalanx guns long ago and noticed they still seemed to fire through the Omega's rotating section.  I dunno if that was model data or the engine though.
Title: Re: Zathras 2.5c for dev testing
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 17, 2013, 02:57:05 am
I believe the omega has some collision detection issues on the rotating section as parts of it are outside the bounding box of detail0.