Author Topic: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...  (Read 13072 times)

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Offline Mobius

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About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
There's something weird happening in the Wiki.

Basically I see many Inferno ships(but the problems affect other mods as well, I guess) marked as normal custom ships.

You can see my recent contributes and get an idea of what is going on - it's strange to have the EAF Nyx marked as Inferno fightercraft while the EAF Claymore is a normal custom fightercraft with no connection to Inferno other than a link to INFR1 and its Tech Description in INFR1.

The Inferno image appearing in Inferno related pages is enough to point the content of the page itself as a non-canon one. An "All informations related to the <insert name> is non-canon" right above or below the Inferno logo wouldn't look good but should work, IMO. Most Inferno ships ARE custom made and should be part of the list of custom made ships as well. Is it possible to remove the tag for ships that are part of a mod project and keep them in the list of user made ships at the same time?

Maybe they should be part of both cathegories, Inferno Ships and User-made Ships? Is it possible to set the Inferno Ships category as a sub-category of User-made Ships? Thanks in advance...  :)

EDIT:

It'd be kind of strange to have this at the beginning of a page:



Quote
The following information has not been confirmed by Volition and is therefore not canon for the FreeSpace universe.

All information related to EAF Claymore Mk1 is non-canon
Back to User-made Ships


« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 04:51:35 pm by Mobius »
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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
Personally I don't know why Inferno or the Babylon Project have some big ugly logo at the start. Each page should be about the individual ship imo, and not the mod itself. If the ship database is intended as tool to allow new modders to add content to their campaigns it should by extension be about the ships. Then each campaign which uses that ship could link from their page to the ship and vice versa if required.

Or even if I were looking at the inferno ships or the derelict ships, and click on something from the list and the first thing I see is some big logo instead of the ship  . . . would make more sense to throw that logo at the bottom imo if its required at all.


Ontop of that, what campaigns do given ships get billed under? All or some? A lot of the ships in Inferno as I understand it weren't originally FOR inferno, several ships are from OTT, several are just models from Aldo. The Vesuvius for example is being used by Twisted Infinities, or Scroll of Atankjnksdas (whatever), not sure which, but both of them are older projects which may date back to or even pre-date INF:R1 so where does it go?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 03:44:33 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
I agree with Akalabeth. I think having the image kinda 'blocks' the page. The two 'non-canon' lines should be sufficient enough to alert the view that the ship is non-canon.
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Offline Aardwolf

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
Then there are the people who think Inferno and Derelict are crap, and might like a ship they have if it weren't for the huge logo at the top...

 :nervous:

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
FreeSpace wiki, not "other game/mod "wiki :yes:
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

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Offline Aardwolf

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
I wouldn't go that far. It would be fine to say somewhere (in not such a ludicrously huge manner) what campaigns a ship appeared in or was originally designed for.

For some mods--TBP, TAP, BtRL... basically any mod set in a completely different universe--it sort of makes sense to have something like indicating that.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
Oh no, i didn't mean "cast the heathens out" i was trying "rather badly" to say FS should quite rightly take presedence.
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
I think he means is that all we need to tell viewers is that the ship is non-canon. That's all.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
I wouldn't go that far. It would be fine to say somewhere (in not such a ludicrously huge manner) what campaigns a ship appeared in or was originally designed for.

I think it would be notable in the multiple stats/descriptions that need to be given sometimes considering model reuse...failing that though I'm out of ideas.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
I'm getting sick and tired of Inferno.

No offense to anyone, but I'm beginning to wish it was never created.
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Offline Mobius

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
Someone got it wrong. The FreeSpace Wiki has a large non-canon/fanon section section and it's intended to provide the community with detailled info on anything concerning FS.

Personally I don't know why Inferno or the Babylon Project have some big ugly logo at the start. Each page should be about the individual ship imo, and not the mod itself. If the ship database is intended as tool to allow new modders to add content to their campaigns it should by extension be about the ships. Then each campaign which uses that ship could link from their page to the ship and vice versa if required.

Removing the connection to the mod that uses it is not an option. There are many INF ships that will never be used in non-INF campaigns, just to give an example, and should keep the reference to INF like the others.

Ontop of that, what campaigns do given ships get billed under? All or some? A lot of the ships in Inferno as I understand it weren't originally FOR inferno, several ships are from OTT, several are just models from Aldo. The Vesuvius for example is being used by Twisted Infinities, or Scroll of Atankjnksdas (whatever), not sure which, but both of them are older projects which may date back to or even pre-date INF:R1 so where does it go?

Maybe the only mod among them with an available release and with team members or fans who're also devoted FS Wiki contributors?

Mod teams tend to create their own stuff for various reasons. You'll hardly see shared ships, especially now.

Oh, the Vesuvius is no longer used in INF.


I agree with Akalabeth. I think having the image kinda 'blocks' the page. The two 'non-canon' lines should be sufficient enough to alert the view that the ship is non-canon.

If the image isn't appropriate and something needs to replace it then there should be a text saying something like "This is an Inferno<link to Wiki INF page> ship and is therefore non-canon<link to canon Wiki page> for the FreeSpace Universe". What about this solution?

FreeSpace wiki, not "other game/mod "wiki :yes:

This statement fights with the Wiki's main purposes.

I think he means is that all we need to tell viewers is that the ship is non-canon. That's all.

No reference to the mod? Very bad thing.

Maybe the small description that preceeds the Tech Descriptions should work. What about:

"This ship/fighter/bomber/etc. was initially created for OTT<link> to serve as <insert something>.

It has been widely used in <insert various mod and campaign names and their link>

It is a <small description of the custom ship>"

What about it?
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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
Someone got it wrong. The FreeSpace Wiki has a large non-canon/fanon section section and it's intended to provide the community with detailled info on anything concerning FS.

Removing the connection to the mod that uses it is not an option. There are many INF ships that will never be used in non-INF campaigns, just to give an example, and should keep the reference to INF like the others.

       What ships are these? Do you know for a fact that someone will never use them? Or has Woomeister prohibited their use in the read me? The best way to promote the use of ships is to have them accessible to people. People don't want to go through all their VPs and search 5 different websites, or 3-4 different wiki pages looking for ships. Or even just looking AT ships. Some people, like me, they won't necessarily ever use any of this stuff. They have great ambitions about using ships, they have great campaign ideas, but it'll never happen. But still they might enjoy half an hour just looking at all the different ships and dreaming up ideas for them.

        Quite honestly there's absolutely nothing worse that someone trying to look up ships and having to look in 5 or 6 different places to find everything. That was my purpose when I started adding ALL the ships to the user created ships page. I'm all for giving credit where credit is due, if it comes out in Inferno, or BWO or whatever then sure, say that, and provide links to the campaign, etcetera and so forth. Even the text option you list is probably much preferable. But if a person wants to just look at the ships, from all the mods, and has to look in more than one place, there's something wrong.

        And when I say all the mods I mean all the freespace mods not all the mods including TBP, WC etcetera. They'd have their own pages.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...

Maybe the small description that preceeds the Tech Descriptions should work. What about:

"This ship/fighter/bomber/etc. was initially created for OTT<link> to serve as <insert something>.

It has been widely used in <insert various mod and campaign names and their link>

It is a <small description of the custom ship>"

What about it?


This is a compromise...
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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...

Maybe the small description that preceeds the Tech Descriptions should work. What about:

"This ship/fighter/bomber/etc. was initially created for OTT<link> to serve as <insert something>.

It has been widely used in <insert various mod and campaign names and their link>

It is a <small description of the custom ship>"

What about it?


This is a compromise...

       Why not just have "This ship was initially featured in OTT<link>, it's a post-capella Interceptor for the GTVA" (I say featured not created because not all ships used in a mod were purpose built for that mod) or whatever. And that's it? List all the mods that use it at the bottom. Because some ships will have a lot of mods, and some won't have any. So if you list them all at the top, sometime it'll be a bunch of crap. Sometimes it won't be very much, basically it'll be inconsistent from ship to ship and that's not something I think looks pretty.

       I normally tried to list ships in their original form (or their HTL version). So if a ship is originally from Inferno, I have that for the tech description and the rest of the mumbo jumbo. 

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
It's pretty much the same thing, yeah :)

The problem is: who's going to make the changes to the Wiki? I can't be alone...
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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
It's pretty much the same thing, yeah :)

The problem is: who's going to make the changes to the Wiki? I can't be alone...


   Well I've been adding ships to the master list so I'll integrate whatever changes into whatever's coming up and go back and fix the other ones as time permits.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/SD_Nyarlathotep#General

Derelict combines the logo with the non-canon tag. What do I have to do to to get an Inferno version of that?
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Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
No idea. Looks like a custom Wiki tag.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/SD_Nyarlathotep#General

Derelict combines the logo with the non-canon tag. What do I have to do to to get an Inferno version of that?
Its just standard wiki template...
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: About the user-made ships list and certain mods...
I agree with AA... custom ship database is about CUSTOM SHIPS FOR MODDERS. If you don't put that ship for free use, then it's has no place in the list in the first place.

Keep hte camapaings out of it. Just put in "modeled by X for Z camapign" and provide a link. No more is needed.
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