Author Topic: Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders  (Read 19629 times)

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Offline Hunne

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
really nice list!! esp. the one about y-axis
what about not putting capital ships/cruisers too close together if they got some waypoints to fly to...i noticed they´ll then just turn stupidly around themselves if there´s no room to navigate....(d´ooh)+use "cap waypoint speed"
oh yeah: imagine you got a Container full of bombs or so...give it a special explosion...

 

Offline Cobra

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
ooooh, the possibilities... thanks for the idea :D
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Unknown Target

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One thing that I've found is putting everythign too close or too far away (something I'm actually guilty of). FRED2's scaling is wacky, so it doesn't look like the right distances, and you can end up with something halfway across the universe, or right in front of you.

 

Offline Cobra

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
actually, it's really easy to figure out the distances and such. ;)
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline TopAce

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Not for everybody. Keep that in mind. Humans differ. This makes our civilisation special and dynamic.
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I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 

Offline Luigi30

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Is doing 11 out of 13 of these in one mission a record?

 

Offline Cobra

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
no.

some missions do all 13. ;)
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline karajorma

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Quote
Originally posted by Luigi30
Is doing 11 out of 13 of these in one mission a record?


In the first mission you've ever written? Well it's to be expected :) I wrote the list so that new FREDders would know what to avoid doing but almost every single mistake on there was something that I've noticed someone make while I've been playtesting for FA. :)
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline Luigi30

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Would it be bad to include the GTA Warp Out Already to be called in 5 minutes after the event that ends the mission happens?

 

Offline Cobra

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wha?

word that again, and we might be able to answer that for you. ;)
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Luigi30

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Okay

My mission ends after
Spoiler:
a shiny big Ravana jumps in and blows the living crap out of the thing you're trying to disable.
The mission is ended when it jumps out. Would it be a Bad Thing to have a ship called the GTC Warp Out Idiot jump in 5 minutes after the Shivans jump out?

 

Offline Cobra

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that's better. :)

actually, yes. the player should have enough sense to jump out. (waits for karajorma's "bet on idiocy" quote :D)
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline karajorma

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
I don't mind easter eggs but I like to make sure that they're in character for the mission. A message from command telling him that he's welcome to keep the ship and go on tour as long as he's willing to pay the multi-million credit price tag would be more in keeping with the mission :)
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline KappaWing

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Another big error I notice in very many missions regarding backrounds:

Many times, a planet is not rotated correctly so the light side points towards the sun. Even worse is when multiple planets are close together and their light sides face all different directions. Many times you can face the sun, and do a 180 degree u-turn and see a planet with only a sliver of light when the whole planet should be illuminated due to the fact that you're right in between the planet and the sun.

What I like to do is place a sliver planet (with the sliver pointing towards the sun) about 5 to 7 degrees off from the sun to give a 'near-eclipse effect.
"Your efforts to interdict me have failed, papacy. Pentagon, engage propaganda drive."
"Now, Protestant scum, you will see the power of this fully armed and operational Papal Station!"

 

Offline karajorma

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
That's actually a good point. I've seen that one a few times myself (Probably got it in some of my older missions too!)
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline Goober5000

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Oh, very true.  Number 14 then. ;)

 
The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Hmmmn, I think I avoid most of the 14 in the list. Though as with all FREDers, my missions have improved as they go along. My first couple are so cruddy, that I don't want to modify 'em too much. My most recent ones are pretty good.

      I think my main FREDing problem is that my missions are TOO complicated and too scripted. Not complicated for the player mind you, but for me, and my playtesting! And I'm sure some looney can break some of my missions if they want to.

       Oh, another problem is mission balance. Now, some of my missions are easy. But for challenging ones, I want them hard for me to win. And for some people, this might be too hard. Then this difficult level ends up being medium, and on top of that I sometimes through in some more enemies for the hard setting for those people who are better pilots than me. But anyways, they're probably too hard to some degree.

     Oh well, tough bananas.
     Since it's unlikely my massive campaign will ever be finished it won't be a problem :)

 

Offline karajorma

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Those complications add depth to the mission. Even something as simple as having lots and lots of possible messages adds a lot. I tend to make complicated debriefings in missions so that I can be more specific about what happened in the mission. (And I keep bugging Goober for new SCP SEXPs that let me do more and more complicated things :D )

All other things being equal, as far as I'm concerned, the more complicated the FREDding the better :) As long as the complications are seemless to the player (which they were in Courting Alexander for instance ) then it's good. Makes playtesting a nightmare though admittedly :D

As for difficulty that's the hardest thing to get correct when you're working singlehanded on something. Getting a few missions playtested tends to help with that. If you know that all your missions are too hard then things can be toned down. :)
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Well the only thing I wonder is whether those complications are neccesary or not. Some of my missions have more complication that FS2-retail campaign missions, or some other player-released missions such as a few I looked at in Homesick. Which isn't a knock against either work, but if someone can do the same with less wouldn't the less be preferable?

      In the end, I'll probably continue to make overly-complicated missions. In some cases, the player may appreciate it. For instance in the first half of one mission, the player has to scan a convoy but their flight isn't on scanning duty. They've been launched just for that convoy. Meanwhile, another wing is scanning and there's a bunch of ships arriving and departing (along with messages to and fro) which have no bearing whatsoever on the player's mission. So in the end, I suppose the complication in this mission is good as it adds to the realism of the "busy port of call" atmosphere. But some players might be "meh, just get to the next part already".

      OR, in the second part of the mission there's a station which a bunch of cargo and ships lying around and unless the player sticks around he won't get close to any of them. So some players might think, "cool, look at all that stuff. It's more than just a station". While others will be thinking "damn, what is all this junk? I can't cycle through all this to find my targets!!! :mad: "

     Good sides and bad sides to complication. The main bad side being "will take too long to ever get done; resulting in total waste", but that's probably more a part of the campaign length than the complication of each individual mission.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2005, 11:52:03 pm by 1332 »

 

Offline Flipside

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
I think taking the intelligence of AI wingmen for granted is an easy mistake to make. Attack-any-ship is a dangerous sexp in the hands of the uninitiated ;)