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[Spoilers] What is Shambhala?
Azrael15:
--- Quote from: MitoPL on November 28, 2016, 12:34:44 pm ---
--- Quote ---ELDER: "The project is called Shambhala. It began twenty years ago, but the final breakthroughs were not made until the 14th Battlegroup defectors brought their expertise to bear."
--- End quote ---
It's not like UEF didn't know of Nagari before Capella. They seemed to research it even before Sol was stranded in space (GTI had some interesting discoveries like the Idun Dictionary), which could mean they were a bit into Nagari already. They could have got some subspace readings of Capella, detect Shivan Nagari activity from there, or get a "hint" from either Vishnu or Ken (it seems he's got some wide influence - Laporte, some "others", presumably like her, and probably also the Hammer of Light, remember what did one of them give to Laporte?).
--- End quote ---
Absolutely. There's no doubt they know about Nagari before that time, but what was the catalyst for the Shambhala plan twenty years prior? If we assume it is related to the Shivans, some contingency to handle them, then what exactly? What did the Shivans do during the Second Incursion to catalyze the UEF - thought to be secure and safe - into some huge decades-spanning plan?
Ken wouldn't have spoken to the Elders, I think is safe to assume based on the words of Bei and the Elders throughout WIH.
--- Quote ---What did 14th bring to the project? Well... Possibly meson, beam or/and subspace technology, but also a load of Nagari-sensitives and data from the entire AoA. And one more thing - some say, that it is a war machine, others that it involves a lot of mystic stuff... Since the UEF is already barely standing, I have a suggestion: why not both?
--- End quote ---
The usage of expertise makes me think it was something more ephemeral than technology - knowledge or data.
But what are the principles of Ubuntu? Well, according to the GTVA...
--- Quote ---Politically: to maximize free speech, minimize government power, and work behind the scenes through the gradual adjustment of social and economic trends. In the long run, to unite mankind, end armed conflict, and develop new technologies that will allow a return to the stars.
Economically: to use sophisticated models to regulate and maximize the output of the free market, through subtle controls rather than by regulation or intervention.
Socially: to promote understanding, open-mindedness, and peace. To eliminate physical and mental illness through scientific treatment. To establish the equality of all human beings. Most controversially, to promote individual moral autonomy and freedom.
Philosophically: to move mankind towards a state of enlightenment, where human beings will function as a coordinated, competitive/cooperative system in which each individual human is actualized to maximum his or her own output. Every person should, it is believed, have the means, the drive, and the hope to make him or herself better.
Religiously: to allow all faiths to coexist.
Ubuntu relentlessly promotes exploration, discovery, and human creation. The colonization of Io is an example of Ubuntu's devotion to laborious human endeavour.
--- End quote ---
niffiwan:
--- Quote from: Azrael15 on November 28, 2016, 06:14:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: MitoPL on November 28, 2016, 12:34:44 pm ---
--- Quote ---ELDER: "The project is called Shambhala. It began twenty years ago, but the final breakthroughs were not made until the 14th Battlegroup defectors brought their expertise to bear."
--- End quote ---
It's not like UEF didn't know of Nagari before Capella. They seemed to research it even before Sol was stranded in space (GTI had some interesting discoveries like the Idun Dictionary), which could mean they were a bit into Nagari already. They could have got some subspace readings of Capella, detect Shivan Nagari activity from there, or get a "hint" from either Vishnu or Ken (it seems he's got some wide influence - Laporte, some "others", presumably like her, and probably also the Hammer of Light, remember what did one of them give to Laporte?).
--- End quote ---
Absolutely. There's no doubt they know about Nagari before that time, but what was the catalyst for the Shambhala plan twenty years prior? If we assume it is related to the Shivans, some contingency to handle them, then what exactly? What did the Shivans do during the Second Incursion to catalyze the UEF - thought to be secure and safe - into some huge decades-spanning plan?
Ken wouldn't have spoken to the Elders, I think is safe to assume based on the words of Bei and the Elders throughout WIH.
--- End quote ---
Ken met the Shivans, perhaps that event triggered a response from the Vishnans, perhaps part of that response was the Vishnans contacting the Elders & telling that to start Shambhala?
Azrael15:
--- Quote from: niffiwan on November 28, 2016, 06:30:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: Azrael15 on November 28, 2016, 06:14:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: MitoPL on November 28, 2016, 12:34:44 pm ---
--- Quote ---ELDER: "The project is called Shambhala. It began twenty years ago, but the final breakthroughs were not made until the 14th Battlegroup defectors brought their expertise to bear."
--- End quote ---
It's not like UEF didn't know of Nagari before Capella. They seemed to research it even before Sol was stranded in space (GTI had some interesting discoveries like the Idun Dictionary), which could mean they were a bit into Nagari already. They could have got some subspace readings of Capella, detect Shivan Nagari activity from there, or get a "hint" from either Vishnu or Ken (it seems he's got some wide influence - Laporte, some "others", presumably like her, and probably also the Hammer of Light, remember what did one of them give to Laporte?).
--- End quote ---
Absolutely. There's no doubt they know about Nagari before that time, but what was the catalyst for the Shambhala plan twenty years prior? If we assume it is related to the Shivans, some contingency to handle them, then what exactly? What did the Shivans do during the Second Incursion to catalyze the UEF - thought to be secure and safe - into some huge decades-spanning plan?
Ken wouldn't have spoken to the Elders, I think is safe to assume based on the words of Bei and the Elders throughout WIH.
--- End quote ---
Ken met the Shivans, perhaps that event triggered a response from the Vishnans, perhaps part of that response was the Vishnans contacting the Elders & telling that to start Shambhala?
--- End quote ---
I don't think the Vishnans are aware of Ken, though. I think Ken states during Morrigan's mindtrip through time and space that if the Vishnans were to learn about him they would both perish.
niffiwan:
Sure, but the Vishnan's don't need to know about Ken, they just need to know that the Shivans changed in response to something. i.e. Vishnan behaviour change based on the observed Shivan behaviour, not on what triggered the change in Shivan behaviour.
Is that important, or am I just being pedantic? (probably pedantic :D)
Azrael15:
--- Quote from: niffiwan on November 28, 2016, 08:32:47 pm ---Sure, but the Vishnan's don't need to know about Ken, they just need to know that the Shivans changed in response to something. i.e. Vishnan behaviour change based on the observed Shivan behaviour, not on what triggered the change in Shivan behaviour.
Is that important, or am I just being pedantic? (probably pedantic :D)
--- End quote ---
Probably, but I was also thinking that as I made that post, so, you've got a good point. ;)
I'll admit I'm not so good on the relationship and interactions between the Shivans and Vishnans, however.
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