[Mars]

The authors actually explicitly said that they want to leave the specifics of subspace travel for both sides blurry for now; it's one of the most flexible things they have to work with, so it makes sense ( the other is probably "just exactly how much damage can a ____ take" )

[General Battuta]

The more resolution the rules get the shorter the clock until the inevitable continuity gaffe. 

[NGTM-1R]

The more resolution the rules get the shorter the clock until the inevitable continuity gaffe. 

Never let them see your internal story assumptions. That way you can break them and nobody will know. 

[qwadtep]

Given that Calder was able to play "subspace chess" with the Tevs for eighteen months before Steele arrived to storm Jupiter, I think we have to acknowledge that UEF subspace technology is at least comparable to that of the GTVA. Actually, I'm not sure it's even a difference in subspace tech--the Tevs just have superior meson reactors, whereas most traffic in Sol isn't even equipped with drives and uses the gate network.

Regarding the NTF Deimos and its jumps: the captain was operating on the belief that the convoy had been scrapped by a GTVA assault force with new a new fighter class and probably prioritized escaping with whatever passive scan data over the lifespan of his Zod reactor.

Sometimes it can be more expensive to upgrade a ship than to build a new one.

For example, someone once said the GTVA should upgrade the Deimos corvettes to have blue beams.  Then someone else replied it would be less effort to just build new Chimeras or Bellerophons.

Don't know if it's BP-canon, but the shape and debris of the Chimera/Bellerophon/Titan suggest that blue beams require drastically different subsystems than FS2-era beams; it might not even be possible to fit them onto older ships.

[Mars]

I think there are indications that there is a line of subspace development and that the Tevs are ahead. Subspace missile strikes are one good example, another is shock jumps.

[MatthTheGeek]

Subspace missile strikes are one good example, another is shock jumps.

Shock jump is a tactic, not a technological advancement. It's all about jumping at the right place and unleash hell on your target in a few seconds. Ships like Chimera, Beller and Titan excel at this tactic because of the overwhelming forward firepower they can deploy on a single target, but any ship can do a shock jump. You can consider the Indus did a shock jump on the Valerie in Darkest Hour, for example.

Don't know if it's BP-canon, but the shape and debris of the Chimera/Bellerophon/Titan suggest that blue beams require drastically different subsystems than FS2-era beams; it might not even be possible to fit them onto older ships.

Like said in several threads, it's pretty much strongly implied that blue beams require the newer Meson reactors to power them. Capella-era ships use Fusion reactors, and changing the main power source of a ship means changing everything, ranging from the engines which most likely need to be adapted to the energy source, to the energy transfer devices of the power grid, to the internal disposition of decks to fit the new reactor. You're better at building a ship designed for it from the ground up rather than forcingly trying to plug it into an older hull.

Not to mention that if Deimoses are still produced and in service, it's because they're cheap yet powerful and versatile. Putting something as expensive as a meson reactor and blue beams would ruin the purpose.

[-Norbert-]

I agree that the GTVA has an edge with the subspace drives in the ships (and missiles), but on the other hand the UEF managed to build their gate network. So I wouldn't say that the GTVA has more advanced subspace technology in general, but just a different specialization.
Remember that the gate network also has stragetic value, which was an advantage the UEF had over the GTVA, untill the Tevs managed to capture Artemis station and thus gain controll over part of the network.
It might have been the very reason that the UEF was able to compete with the Tevs in the "subspace chess", because it equaled out the Tevs advanced drives.

I wonder if the GTVA has any plans on esteblishing similar gate networks in their own systems, once the war is over and they can spare the ressources. Apart from being of strategic value in the defense against the Shivans, it would also help the economy and we all know that Terran economy desperately need help.

[MatthTheGeek]

Building a gate network is economically viable only when you start stripping most of your newly-produced ships of any form of subspace drive, because that's what's expensive. That means it requires a new generation of civilian ships to be built before it becomes profitable. Secondly, no drives also mean no inter-system jumps, something the UEF didn't have to worry about but that can quickly become very problematic in the GTVA, where most of the trading isn't exactly intra-systems. Plus, if the GTVA has to evacuate a system due to a Shivan invasion, they'll want as many jump-capable ships as possible in the vicinity. Removing drives in favour of a gate network would be shooting your own foot.

[Mars]

Shock jump is a tactic, not a technological advancement.

I know this.

It's all about jumping at the right place and unleash hell on your target in a few seconds.

Which somehow the Tev ships do every time, and UEF ships randomly jump into the middle of pockets of anticapital fire. Tev ships then proceed to jump out within a minute or two.

Ships like Chimera, Beller and Titan excel at this tactic because of the overwhelming forward firepower they can deploy on a single target, but any ship can do a shock jump. You can consider the Indus did a shock jump on the Valerie in Darkest Hour, for example.

They can jump in, but they never seem able to jump out very quickly. Delande Est for example, or The mission that is the takedown of the GTD Meridian.

[-Norbert-]

Building a gate network is economically viable only when you start stripping most of your newly-produced ships of any form of subspace drive, because that's what's expensive. That means it requires a new generation of civilian ships to be built before it becomes profitable. Secondly, no drives also mean no inter-system jumps, something the UEF didn't have to worry about but that can quickly become very problematic in the GTVA, where most of the trading isn't exactly intra-systems. Plus, if the GTVA has to evacuate a system due to a Shivan invasion, they'll want as many jump-capable ships as possible in the vicinity. Removing drives in favour of a gate network would be shooting your own foot.

I was more thinking about reduced travel time and fuel consumption. If the civilian ships lack the ability to make intra-system jumps (which is a reasonable assumtion I think), a gate connection between the jumpnodes and the planets would help the economy. And as a military tool, it allows you to get to a palce, without having to use your jumpdrives charge, thus keeping one more card up your sleeve, in addition to helping to conceal your fleet movements.

[MatthTheGeek]

Oh yeah, about jump gates, randomly, they are a great asset for both the GTVA and the UEF because neither of them want to destroy them for economical and tactical reasons. In case of a Shivan invasion, you can be sure that jump gates would be among the first targets, nullifying the point.

[-Norbert-]

Yes, and that's also why the Shivans blew up the Knossos portals.... oh wait....

[MatthTheGeek]

Yeah, right, because the Shivans totally need our intra-system gates to navigate in our systems. Oh wait.

[-Norbert-]

They might not need them, but they might still find them usefull enough to keep.
And sorry about the acidity of my last comment, that went a bit too far, looking back.

[Buckshee Rounds]

The main benefit of gates is saving on costs and fuel consumption. I doubt Shivans have an economy to really make it matter.

[-Norbert-]

But they also have the benefit of traveling through subspace, without using your subspace engines, which means you arrive at the other side of the portal with fully charged drives and can jump away almost immediately (crash jump anyway), if you happen to jump yourself into a bad situation.
They also prevent the enemy from knowing what will come out of the portal, since they'll only know something is coming, wether it's a drone or a Sathanas (theoretically anyway, since I'm pretty sure a Sath doesn't fit through).

[Buckshee Rounds]

True that, but Shivans have never retreated or jumped to escap afaik. Still, just cos it can be blown up by Shivans doesn't mean it won't be built. If we used that logic then there'd be no fleet.

[Drogoth]

Building a gate network is economically viable only when you start stripping most of your newly-produced ships of any form of subspace drive, because that's what's expensive. That means it requires a new generation of civilian ships to be built before it becomes profitable. Secondly, no drives also mean no inter-system jumps, something the UEF didn't have to worry about but that can quickly become very problematic in the GTVA, where most of the trading isn't exactly intra-systems. Plus, if the GTVA has to evacuate a system due to a Shivan invasion, they'll want as many jump-capable ships as possible in the vicinity. Removing drives in favour of a gate network would be shooting your own foot.

I was more thinking about reduced travel time and fuel consumption. If the civilian ships lack the ability to make intra-system jumps (which is a reasonable assumtion I think), a gate connection between the jumpnodes and the planets would help the economy. And as a military tool, it allows you to get to a palce, without having to use your jumpdrives charge, thus keeping one more card up your sleeve, in addition to helping to conceal your fleet movements.

I doubt even a significant portion of tev civilian vessels lack inter system drives. The entire Tev economy is built on a multi system model. Some civilian trade ship is NOT profitable without an inter system drive. Spending money on these inner system gates seems silly. Spending money on INTER system gates to shorten trade lines...? Stabalize some nodes might be nice. or if we could even link to gates (totally ballparking, but could they research enough to built their own conduits?). That seems like a better investment

[FireSpawn]

They should look into an alternate form of FTL travel rather than subspace, make their own ETAK device, wait for shivans, ????, PROFIT!!!!

But in all seriousness, I think that intrasystem gates would actually do good for the GTVAs economy. Less need for jumpdrive enabled ships would make some ships cheaper, meaning more people could travel more easily to other planets/stations and increase galactic tourism. And when it comes to intersystem travel, outdated millitary carriers or civilian ones could ferry driveless ships.

I know that the GTVA is essentially a military state, but I am English and refuse to believe that they would prevent people from going on holiday to a sunny planet and walking into shops wearing nothing but a pair of Speedo trunks, pair of sandals, and wasting money on trinkets.

[Drogoth]

They should look into an alternate form of FTL travel rather than subspace, make their own ETAK device, wait for shivans, ????, PROFIT!!!!

But in all seriousness, I think that intrasystem gates would actually do good for the GTVAs economy. Less need for jumpdrive enabled ships would make some ships cheaper, meaning more people could travel more easily to other planets/stations and increase galactic tourism. And when it comes to intersystem travel, outdated millitary carriers or civilian ones could ferry driveless ships.

I know that the GTVA is essentially a military state, but I am English and refuse to believe that they would prevent people from going on holiday to a sunny planet and walking into shops wearing nothing but a pair of Speedo trunks, pair of sandals, and wasting money on trinkets.

Is there a market for driveless intra system travel? keep in mind that Sol has the Jovian's, the Martians and Earth itself. Three almost separate nations in one system, makes for good intra system trade. The population of Sol is roughly the equal to the terran half of the GTVA, which is spread across several systems. I still think the amount of investment required to construct a gate network in every system, or even every major system is just no where near the money it would save. population density isn't there. You don't build 8 lane highways in towns of 20,000 people.

The point about needing all available lift capacity should the shivans return is well taken as well.

"Sir they blew up Vega!"
"We got everyone out right?"
"Negative sir, most ships didn't have drives"
"Well ****."