Author Topic: What should the GTVA's strategy be?  (Read 167031 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FireSpawn

  • 29
  • Lives in GenDisc
    • Minecraft
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
"Sir they blew up Vega!"
"We got everyone out right?"
"Negative sir, most ships didn't have drives"
"Well ****."

Touché.
If you hit it and it bleeds, you can kill it. If you hit it and it doesn't bleed...You are obviously not hitting hard enough.

Greatest Pirate in all the Beach System.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

  • 210
  • the REAL Nuke of HLP
    • North Carolina Tigers
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
let's be clear on something.  gates wouldn't save fuel overall.  just for the traveling ship.  power is still required to open a node, and something will have to fuel gate to generate said power.  conservation of energy folks.  thermodynamics is a *****.
I like to stare at the sun.

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
An intrasystem network wouldn't help much against Shivans.  They blow up a gate, and suddenly any ship with no drives in the area would be left stranded with no hope whatsoever of leaving.  Coupled with the fact ships will still need intersystem drives to get to real safety, and what's the point?  Intersystem gates which could bypass nodes are another story.  Assuming those are even possible.

Like Drogoth said, they make sense in a hugely industrialised system like Sol, but since the GTVA isn't concentrated in one system, they don't really have much use.

 

Offline qwadtep

  • 28
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
let's be clear on something.  gates wouldn't save fuel overall.  just for the traveling ship.  power is still required to open a node, and something will have to fuel gate to generate said power.  conservation of energy folks.  thermodynamics is a *****.
Arguable. Ships passing through a gate don't have to carry their own fuel, which translates to lower mass and thus a lower cost per jump.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

  • 210
  • the REAL Nuke of HLP
    • North Carolina Tigers
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
ok, potentially slightly more efficient.  but we're not talking gasoline and coal here, these are super-advanced fusion and meson reactors.  consider that nuclear powered (fission) ships today run for ~30 years with a few hundred kg of fuel. 
I like to stare at the sun.

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
Consider that the amounts of energy required to open a portal in the fabric of space and time are a little bit higher than the amounts required to push a boat across water.

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
Not to mention lifesupport, heating the ship (both of which are far easier done on a planets surface) and artificial gravity.

 

Offline qwadtep

  • 28
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
As it turns out, heating isn't much of a problem in space--there's very little for heat to be transferred to. If anything ships probably need significant amounts of coolant to keep the excess heat from reactors and beams from toasting the crew.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
Indeed, in our internal rules for capship behavior heat is a serious consideration.

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
On a combatant yes, but I thought we were talking about civilian ships here.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
On a combatant yes, but I thought we were talking about civilian ships here.

Anything running a reactor is going to have more waste heat then it knows what to do with.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
Unless they managed to crack cold fusion and I have no idea how a meson reactor is supposed to work, or how much heat it produces.

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
Unless they managed to crack cold fusion and I have no idea how a meson reactor is supposed to work,
Energetically,
Quote from: -Norbert-
or how much heat it produces.
so therefore, probably a lot.

 

Offline qwadtep

  • 28
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
The problem is that any heat a spacecraft produces has nowhere to go. Conduction doesn't work in a vacuum and convection doesn't work without gravity, so the only things naturally cooling a spaceborne object are the solar wind and the object's own thermal radiation. It's quite likely that the Legion is still hot to the touch fifty years after the Lucifer put a hole in it.

(Granted, an thermostat is still needed to keep internal temperatures from swinging between extremes.)

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
There's always the physically dubious Sundiver approach wherein we use beams as heat sinks  ;7

(almost entirely sure this is thermodynamic bull****)

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
It's perfectly feasible to transfer the ship's waste heat to something (like your beam plasma) and get rid of that.  The only problem is flinging your superheated plasma at enemies will probably produce more heat than you're getting rid of.

In any case, it's quite well known that spacecraft in science-fiction use phlebotinum heat sinks that are so effective that keeping the ship warm is a bigger problem than keeping it cold.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 02:16:53 pm by Aesaar »

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

  • 210
  • the REAL Nuke of HLP
    • North Carolina Tigers
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
Unless they managed to crack cold fusion and I have no idea how a meson reactor is supposed to work, or how much heat it produces.

the 'cold' in cold fusion means the ionic temperature the reaction taking place at doesn't have to be that of the sun.  the laws of thermodynamics still state that you will generate waste heat in the energy conversion cycle.

unless in the FS verse they have some kind of super cool direct energy extraction type of thing. 
I like to stare at the sun.

 
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
The problem is that any heat a spacecraft produces has nowhere to go. Conduction doesn't work in a vacuum and convection doesn't work without gravity, so the only things naturally cooling a spaceborne object are the solar wind and the object's own thermal radiation. It's quite likely that the Legion is still hot to the touch fifty years after the Lucifer put a hole in it.

(Granted, an thermostat is still needed to keep internal temperatures from swinging between extremes.)
The solar wind is heat source, not a sink.  It's the stream of highly energetic charged particles that continually stream off the Sun, and is much hotter than the outer hull of a ship (like one million K or so).  Of course, just because it's hot doesn't mean it actually would cause any measurable heating compared to the Sun's electromagnetic output, since it's extremely diffuse and thus much more of an ionizing radiation danger.

The Legion is also likely very cold, depending on how far away it is from the star it's orbiting (Deneb, was it?).  50 years is more than enough time for all the waste heat from the reactor to be radiated away, and the thermal energy from the beam wouldn't be too much in comparison (yes, I know how much damage it did; quite a lot of that energy went into punching the hole and destroying the ship, not heating it).

You are however correct in that a ship's reactor is going to be simply vomiting up waste heat, and keeping the ship cool when in normal operation (or when it's just in the Sun) is much more of a problem than keeping it warm.

 
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
I'd highly recommend this site to anyone interested in a relatively magic-free discussion of the realities of spaceship design and operations. Click "show topic list" in the upper righthand corner and start digging.

 

Offline CT27

  • 211
Re: What should the GTVA's strategy be?
WIth the news in the other thread that Solarises now have improved mass drivers...does/should this have any effect on the GTVA's strategy for winning the war?