[NGTM-1R]

Also, if this is true, how in the name of hell did they fit 4 quantum blue box computers, which are roughly the size of industrial refrigerators,

Ingame experience from ME1/ME2 denies the truth of this. Remember the AI on the Citadel in ME1? And I'm pretty sure the ME2 description says they're much smaller.

[TrashMan]

TrashMan, unfortunately (depending on how you look at it), your views on what constitutes "good writing" have summarily dismissed you from the group of people I solicit decent game reviews from.

I'll judge this one when it comes out, not whenever you feel like launching into a poorly spelled tirade over something you've unilaterally and irrevocably judged as poor before it even got out the gate.

If you truly consider the main plot of ME2 to be well-written, then you're beyond help.

You think I'm judging it too harshly? Prematurely? Yeah, I got the leaked script so I have a fine example of BioWare's writing in front of me. So as much as you'd like it to be baseless, it is not.

And I'm not askign you anything. I'm not demanding anything from you. So where do you get this silly idea that I demand you judge it like me?


Also, GAME review and WRITING are two rahter different things. ME3 can be a entertaining game and sstill have bad writing that most people wouldn't even care about.

[TrashMan]

I doubt those "rumors" are true anyway. It sounds like a parody. If it's serious I'm buying anyway because it as LordPomposity said, it's in self-parody territory.

Some of them are confirmed now.

The 3 levels mentioned in the preview unfold exactly as they are in the script.

Even though the little gameplay footage shows they are indoctrinated (Shepard says this specifically)? Nazi's kinda did it out of free will.

Shepard thinks that. But there's more to it. Suffice to say that if they don't change anything from the script, you wont' be able to go 5 minutes trought the game without someone reminding you how evil Cerberus is.
Also, Cerberus is everywhere....

[deathfun]

What's well written Trashman? I would like examples of things you have deemed well written

[TrashMan]

But you can, apparently, judge it without ever really seeing it, only based on a few trailers, interview snippets that could be interpreted either way, and unconfirmed rumors. I'm not saying ME3's plot won't suck, but I for one won't know until I play it. Apparently you're way ahead of me and don't need to bother with such tiresome details as actually knowing something about the matter you're discussing before forming an apparently fixed opinion on the matter.

How about a leaked script?
We're talking about 20 MB's worth of text here, there's so much of it I havn't read trough all of it. But what I see is dissapointing. Even if by some miracle it doesn't end up the finishing product (and all indication and previews and other leaks point out that nothing cahnged), it shows the direction they are heading for.

Again, I'm saying that what I read sucked. I'm forming an oppoinion based on something tangible.

Maybe the final game won't be as bad. I'm not holding my hopes up tough..

[TrashMan]

What's well written Trashman? I would like examples of things you have deemed well written

Something that doesn't have gaping plot holes, idiot balls and things thrown in purely for the bling factor.

My definition of bad writing is rather simple - if you can easily (something that even a kid can see) spot the above mentioned things, and can easily think of ways to fix them without hurting the plot - then the writers are downright lazy.


The ME2 opening is a excellent example of it.

[Liberator]

Also, Cerberus is everywhere....

TIM did say that Cerberus IS Humanity.  And what is good for Cerberus is good for Humanity.  So it's possible there's some low level, high strength Indoctrination going on here.  Or, it could be that TIM is pissed because you stole 6 billion credits from him in the form of your resurrection and the new and improved Normandy.

[deathfun]

What's well written Trashman? I would like examples of things you have deemed well written

Something that doesn't have gaping plot holes, idiot balls and things thrown in purely for the bling factor.

My definition of bad writing is rather simple - if you can easily (something that even a kid can see) spot the above mentioned things, and can easily think of ways to fix them without hurting the plot - then the writers are downright lazy.


The ME2 opening is a excellent example of it.

Those aren't examples of things that are well written, that's a baseline which you use to deem what is well written
So I ask again, what examples can you provide of well written stories?

[TrashMan]

You mean for a  game or in general?

And maybe I should expand writing to include "designing a universe".

[newman]

I think the problem is expectations. I can read Asimov's foundation series, and I can read a Batman comic. I do not expect to find the same levels of depth and plot consistency in each of them. With the Batman comic, I won't exactly be overthinking every plot point - it's supposed to be quick fun and it pretty much does what it's designed to do. Ditto with Mass Effect, which is pretty much the Batman comic here. Spending any amount of time analyzing the plot in-depth is a complete waste of time, and I have way better things to do with mine.
And that's all assuming you're right about ME3's plot sucking, which I can't say I'm anywhere near being convinced about. I have no idea where you'd get a leaked script from and frankly, I don't care. No matter what you say here as "evidence" I have no real way of knowing it came from a legit source, so I might as well ignore this "evidence" completely. I still stand by the fact that you need to play the game before you go bash any of it's aspects. Especially the plot.

[deathfun]

You mean for a  game or in general?

And maybe I should expand writing to include "designing a universe".

For a game

[TrashMan]

I think the problem is expectations. I can read Asimov's foundation series, and I can read a Batman comic. I do not expect to find the same levels of depth and plot consistency in each of them. With the Batman comic, I won't exactly be overthinking every plot point - it's supposed to be quick fun and it pretty much does what it's designed to do. Ditto with Mass Effect, which is pretty much the Batman comic here. Spending any amount of time analyzing the plot in-depth is a complete waste of time, and I have way better things to do with mine.

Most Batman comics are more consistent then this....and it's nto overthinking. You don't have to analyize a plot in-depth to find gaping flaws.

Also, ME1 at least was presented in a more mature, serious and realisitc way - you're damn right I expect more of it.

By your logic, no form of media would ever advance. If everything is alwas "good enough" and you never expect or want more...why bother?
Congratultions... I can use your own argument to defend anything and everything, no matter how mady written.

Think of hte wrost pice of writign you ever saw in your life...then apply that argument to it..then come back to me.

[phatosealpha]

Wait, they aren't seriously putting EDI is a robot, right?  Right?
Cause you know, they made a pretty damned big deal in the first game of how much trouble AIs cause and how everyone hates the Quarians because they made the Geth, and they weren't even really AIs.

And now you're going to have Shephard show up, running around with a Geth and a full fledged AI in a robot?  And he's going to do this right in the middle of a full scale galactic invasion by AIs who want to exterminate everyone, just to ensure that everyone in the Galaxy has the dangers front and center in their minds?

Yeah, that's going to go over real well.


And let me guess, he's going to resurrect the Rachni despite that whole 'war against the galaxy' thing, cure the genophage and repopulate the Krogan species (again, despite that whole 'war against the galaxy' thing)?

.....and everybody's OK with that?

[The E]

Well, seeing as Trashman hasn't been able to point to a credible news source reporting about the whole "EDI gets a body" thing, I doubt it's actually true. The only thing google finds when looking for those terms is a lot of fan speculation a la "Should/Can EDI get a body in ME3?", nothing more.

And besides, why would she want a new body when the Normandy is already so perfect?

[BritishShivans]

Trashman, can I has a email containing the leaked script? I really wanna see it.  If only so I can laugh at bad writing.

[newman]

Think of hte wrost pice of writign you ever saw in your life...

Right here.

[TrashMan]

There's a whole discussion group in Bioware boards dedicated to discussing the leak. You can aks for a link or file there. I don't have it on me on this laptop.
You'd have to sift trough all the groups to find them - and there's a huge number of redicoous groups...

I did a quick scan, and there might be something here. I did see some groups dissapearing, so I don't know if you will find that group I mentioned.
http://social.bioware.com/group/6823/#discussions

There's also numbeous threads on BioWare forums containing snippets, screenshots and various other leaks.

You can always try googling or simply asking on the forums - plenty poeple have the leaks, but talking opnty about them can easily get one banned.
So you can only get them via e-mail or P.M.

[TrashMan]

Think of hte wrost pice of writign you ever saw in your life...

Right here.

cute... but what di you expect? Tolstoy? My writing is flawless and impeccalbe, you are a moron for questioning it.

[Shivan Hunter]

cute... but what di you expect? Tolstoy? My writing is flawless and impeccalbe, you are a moron for questioning it.

this **** right here

For me, gaping, easily fixable flaws are pretty much a sign of not caring and the "stupid masses will eat anything" mentality.

and this **** right here

Nobody is "spoiling" your experience, unless you want to spoil it yourself. Stop blaming others for your lack of self-control.

and this **** way up here

is what got you banned from GD

[Grizzly]

"is what you got banned from GD" is a line that should be kept to people capable of banning, IMO.