[Goober5000]

Aha, but you see, that's only one small part of the entire Freespace timeline.  There's still the Lost Generation (between FS1 and FS2) that could use a good campaign or two, not to mention the entire Terran-Vasudan War (hint ) and even stuff before that.

[General Yoda]

Theres one thing i don't understand, instead of making an entire new game and engine just modify one its been done before.  Check out my Freespace Doom 3 project it will be free completly free well if it did cost something it would be illegal anyway but im not in it for the money im in it for making a much better freespace game cause i can't stand the outdated graphics.

http://mods.moddb.com/834/

[WMCoolmon]

The best solution I see at this point in time is for someone to get a large project going to complement the FSSCP, and develop non-code materials to use in replacement of the originals. Moving to another engine has a big disadvantage: not everyone in the community will like it. It's not like everyone can just be ordered over to a new game. There are people with years of experience modding Freespace and won't want to take the trouble of learning to mod a new game.
To revitalize Freespace, we need a few things:
1) A game engine with graphics fairly close to modern ones. This is already happening with the Freespace Source Code Project.
2) Original media to go with #1 that takes the place of the media that came with Freespace 2. In other words, you should be able to play with just the engine and the media. Any of the TC mods would be a candidate, the problem is finishing them.
3) PUBLICITY!![/i][/u] At the moment, there isn't much news or information on Freespace at all. If I wanted to find out the status of the campaigns currently in progress, I'd have to search for quite a bit. It's difficult to find the latest demo for a given campaign. There should be something to get someone visiting HLP hooked on Freespace. A link to the demo, for example. I realize the admins have lives and jobs, but "size matters not". The more news and content there is, the more likely someone will spot something that interests them.

Anyway, just my $.02

[Solatar]

I don't think we should tempt fate by giving :V: a deadline. How abut something like this?
1) They actually work on fs3, not put it off.
2) They advertise it.
3) They either release the source code to the programmers, or they tell US what they need, we make it, and they do all the story stuff.

This on is a maybe....
4) They reopen the VBB.......

[Rictor]

Originally posted by aldo_14

2/ Surely we don't need FS3, just a moddable space sim (Homeplanet seems promising IMO)? I mean, if we had FS3, most of the campaigns here would be instantly invalid.... FS2's open ending is the best thing that could have happened for modding, even if it is a shame it wasn't completed.  Beside which, any othe rmajor projects I start (unlikely as it may be) after Reci will not be set in the FS universe.

my idea! MINE:)

hehe actually consider this:

homeplanet comes out. we get the engine for free (not a mod, its freeware, atleast the engine is, read ifh.firstones.com). everyone, and i mean everyone!! pitches in to make a really good TC for fs2. right now, there is atleast about 5-10 really good modelleres in the community, dittor texturers.

that sounds more feasible than buying the right to fs3 and all that.

honestly, what do you think??

[Whitelight]

With the campaigns and the sorce code project, were still in the running, i`ve been playing since fs1 came out in 98 i believe, may be wrong...

But the point is it`s not wearing off for me... The Babylon Project is another one that is quality controlled.. Played the Blackwater Operations demo, it`s another sign of quality control...  Have to wait for the rest of the campaigns, but i`m used to waiting, great things come to those who wait..

Hardlight Productions will be here and so will i

[Unknown Target]

...

N/M then, I guess Freespace will eventually slow down and die.

It's not that we don't have a shortage of material, no, it's that we have a shortage of people.
The "old heads" will eventually leave, and all that will be left are 20 or so new guys. They'll eventually leave, and so will this web site.
Of course, if we could somehow get a lot of new ppl to join the community, that'd be great, but we'd have to release something. Like we could majorely p1mp Blackwater Ops over the internet, and distribute FS2 with it (it's legal now, I think, because they released the source).

BTW, if anyone bothered to read my post, you'd see that I suggested some different ideas than kasperl

[Unknown Target]

BTW, that Homeplanet game looks, except for the ships, pretty ugly.

[Rictor]

eh?

i think that its currently among the 2 or 3 best looking space sim engines around. But both EVE and Freelancer are going to be online only. i dont know how high you set your standards, but i think its noticably better then fs2 (no offence to fs2).

i think that the fs2 community is still gong strong, and new people capable of modding are comming along all the time (general yoda recently). but i still think that some of the oldies need to stay around.

[kasperl]

ok,in my posts of yesterday i kinda missed the entire point of this thread, sorry, i was half asleep.

now,i might bring in a couple of new members, cause the moment i get my hands on FS2 in a full package, i'll copy it and distribute it among my friends (and yes, that is legal). so that way we mioght gain, about 10 poeple more. wouldn't it be possible to get other people we all know to join the comunity. kinda like a "Tell Your Friends!!!" just to get enough people. and with the TVWP we're going to have enough material to keep going for some time.
and perhaps,in a year or 5, the engine is reall outdated and people start leaving, that is too bad. but we're not dead yet, so why think of dead? it will only turn into a self fulfilling prophecy, cause if everyone thinks that it'll be over in a few years, nobody will actually do something.

[Stunaep]

before I got freespace, I was actively modding Wolfenstein. No, not RTCW, the original Wolfenstein 3d. I released several mods, the community was strong, even now, two years after I left, I get 3-4 e-mails per month asking for tips, guidelines, etc.


a good game, just won´t die.

[Unknown Target]

Doesn't mean that'll happen to Freespace. In fact, if anything, that won't happen to FS.
BTW, that is truly one of the uglier space sims I've seen, Hegemonia (a strat game) looks better than that.
(Don't believe me? Check out www.hegemonia.info)
Freespace in it's current state looks worse than that.

...

Alright, maybe I am a pessimest (it has been remarked) but I truly think this entire community will die out within the next 2-3 years, if nothing happens other than new campaigns being released.
Does anyone know why those campaigns will only have a minimal effect on the Freespace community?
Anyone?
It's because they're being released for the community.
Now, I don't mind that, in fact, I think that it's a great thing. But the very thing that makes those campaigns great is also their downfall. Because they're being released for the inner community and ONLY the inner community, they are, in reality doing very little for the Freespace legacy. They don't bring anyone new in, so it all goes around in a big circle at the end.
Of course, if even the SCP was released over the web, HLP had a banner in the lineup on the GS server's websites, if the campaigns were packaged with a fully-working .EXE for Freespace and everything required to run the game, if only for that campaign and later mods, then the community would truly flourish once again.
As it stands, no one is doing even that. Everyone says: "No, that would be wrong. We can't do that"
And why not? It's not because of copyright issues, as the release of the source code nullifyed it and essentially made the game worthless. No, it's because no one wants to, and for that, I have no explanation, because we have NOTHING TO LOSE, and EVERYTHING to gain!

Whatever. This post is going to be skipped over, and everyone's going to go back to the MINOR point about buying the rights to FS. In case you haven't realized, that was NOT my MAJOR POINT IN THE THREAD!

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
Alright, maybe I am a pessimest (it has been remarked) but I truly think this entire community will die out within the next 2-3 years, if nothing happens other than new campaigns being released.
Does anyone know why those campaigns will only have a minimal effect on the Freespace community?
Anyone?
It's because they're being released for the community.
Now, I don't mind that, in fact, I think that it's a great thing. But the very thing that makes those campaigns great is also their downfall. Because they're being released for the inner community and ONLY the inner community, they are, in reality doing very little for the Freespace legacy. They don't bring anyone new in, so it all goes around in a big circle at the end.
Of course, if even the SCP was released over the web, HLP had a banner in the lineup on the GS server's websites, if the campaigns were packaged with a fully-working .EXE for Freespace and everything required to run the game, if only for that campaign and later mods, then the community would truly flourish once again.
As it stands, no one is doing even that. Everyone says: "No, that would be wrong. We can't do that"
And why not? It's not because of copyright issues, as the release of the source code nullifyed it and essentially made the game worthless. No, it's because no one wants to, and for that, I have no explanation, because we have NOTHING TO LOSE, and EVERYTHING to gain!

Good points.

We should stop being pessimists.  If we say it's going to die out, it will.  If we're optimistic and bring in new members, it'll flourish.  Doesn't matter about the quality of the engine - the game itself is a classic.

But a question...

As it stands, no one is doing even that. Everyone says: "No, that would be wrong. We can't do that"

Eh, why not, and why do people say that?

[Rictor]

i see. why do you have such a bad attitude.
if you like the game, and if people are commited then it will not be lost.

who cares if its only released to the inner community. a community is not guaged on the number of members, but rather on its activity.

btw i played the haegemonia demo, its ok, nothing too great. It pisses me off that of people around here are really bitter and pessimisstic. Whatever new model is released, whatever new campaign is planned, whatever course of action is undertaken by the members of the FS community, these people respond to it in a bad way. hey if you're here you like FS, and if you like FS please try to atleast  try to keep the community going intead of complaining all the time.

homeplanet looks pretty good, but thats no reason that it cant look really good, just cause the official game has x polies per ship doesnt mean that we cant release y polies per ship. right now its just graphics and ease of modability, the rest (story, ideas etc etc) there is an adundance of.

btw why dont you try to get some FS models into haegemonia, that seems like a cool idea..

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
As it stands, no one is doing even that. Everyone says: "No, that would be wrong. We can't do that"
And why not? It's not because of copyright issues, as the release of the source code nullifyed it and essentially made the game worthless. No, it's because no one wants to, and for that, I have no explanation, because we have NOTHING TO LOSE, and EVERYTHING to gain!

ok see, thats what i mean. when an idea or campaign comes along you can say

a) thats not the savior of the FS community, bla bla bla, its not good bla bla bla bla

or

b)wow, good work man. now try imporivng this and this to make it even better.


obviously getting the FS license is not very likely, so what the next best thing...

i say homeplanet, you say haegemonia. as long as its SOMETHING i'm more or less happy.

good day sir, we're all in this as fs fans, so i dont really wanna bicker ok??

[heretic]

I read this whole thread, and noticed that you all are just throwing **** into the wind. People have been saying the FS community is dying for almost 2 years now.

POINT 1:

Forget about the Freespace rights. You'll never get them. So, I ask thee a question: When you can't use the freespace name, use something else. A brief history lesson:

Descent: Freespace got it's name because the basic name of "Freespace" was already taken.

Think of something, like "FreeVoyage" etc. Build on that.

Why get a new engine? we have one that allows us to do so much. the SCP is kicking ass and gaining new ground. Soon higher poly models, better lighting and nebula effects, and maybe, just maybe, even Atmosphere & large scale terrain. I know it is possible because the engine was based on Descent.

Next thing to consider - forget the campaigns. Hell, if half the people devoted to campaigns came together on one MASSIVE project, then things would get done a lot faster, and I assure you, it WOULD get noticed. Combine efforts.

Last, single player gaming is old, dying, and losing a lot of ground. Online playing is the new wave, it's here to stay, and will only get more involved. Look at the large titles- NWN, MW, UT2k3, U2, Doom3, hell, look at older ones like q3 and CS. MMORPG's and MMOFPS's are becoming the hottest sellers.

Nothing would be better than to map out the nodes and have wingman playing from all sides of the globe.

The difference in the claims that everyone is screaching about, "Let's get the rights and MAKE do this!!!!" is complete and utter bull****. On the contrary, what I've outlined has the same results and is possible.

Not easy, but possible.

this concludes the longest post by me ever on HLP. g'day.

[Stealth]

i'll never leave the Freespace community

[Unknown Target]

POINT 1:
I already suggested that we use a different name. Ta-da!

POINT 2:
Hegemonia isn't modable yet, so I can't do that.

Originally posted by Rictor.
b)wow, good work man. now try imporivng this and this to make it even better.

POINT 3:
Yes, I could say that. In fact, I will say that. What's your point?

POINT 4:
No, the FS community will not survive for as long as we would like it to, because we are getting OLDER. Therefore, we will no longer eventually be able to spend enough time playing a 4-year-old game.

POINT 5:
And...still no response on my idea of having the ENTIRE community get together, make FS3 (and it would be nice, considering that all the fans made it), and release it along with an updated source code, and name it something like The End of Space or some really cool title like that.

[Nico]

Originally posted by heretic
Last, single player gaming is old, dying, and losing a lot of ground. Online playing is the new wave, it's here to stay, and will only get more involved. Look at the large titles- NWN, MW, UT2k3, U2, Doom3, hell, look at older ones like q3 and CS. MMORPG's and MMOFPS's are becoming the hottest sellers.

huh? Maybe in the USA massively online games are widely played, but that's not true for every country. Saying that single player is dying is well I'll just at that.
And doom3 is a terrible exemple, ID clearly said that it would feature only 4 player deathmatch ( if there was a full multiplayer possibility for it, who would buy quake4, huh? ). Doom3 is the perfect exemple proving that single player is and will remain the main wain to play games, just coz people can't all afford mmorpg.

as for making a fan made FS3, that won't happen coz everybody has its own vision of the FS3 plot, some will want the ancients to come back, some others will want the shivans t be eradicated, and nobody will agree and say "let's take "insert name here"'s plot and let's make this one, coz most will rather say: why this one? mine's better. That point has already been questioned during the FS forever project, and what I said above had been proven true. And no matter what one would say, that's the way it would go.

[Joey_21]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
...

N/M then, I guess Freespace will eventually slow down and die.

It's not that we don't have a shortage of material, no, it's that we have a shortage of people.
The "old heads" will eventually leave, and all that will be left are 20 or so new guys. They'll eventually leave, and so will this web site.

Hey you! The pessimist with the tarot cap on.... *SMACK*

Quit making predictions. You don't have anything to back up being definite about whether the oldbies will be leaving or not. Even if the oldbies do leave, they will leave behind a great foundation for the new-comers. The breakup of a community is independent on if/when the oldbies leave.

Any community breaking up is unpredictable and doesn't need pointing out. It has been brought up before and, frankly, I'm a bit sick of the FS series being compared to new standards . 1998 to 2003 makes up 5 years of active community, some of which have even been staying throughout the whole 5 years.

I see lots of new possibilities to keep the community living for a very long time with the SCP and new mods/campaigns. When our current campaigns are being released there will be more projects to get us up for even more gameplay.

So the game is old... does that make it flawed? Age has nothing to do with having flaws.

To me, all the brand new projects and campaigns are FS3 enough... we have plenty of people in the talent and creativity departments to thank for that.

After all this summation, I find a #3 to add to your very first list of Freespace possibilities :

3. Leave the possibility of death alone. Some may leave but many more will come. Don't look at the fate of the community neither optimistically nor pessimistically, but logically.