[SpardaSon21]

I can't seem to enable them.  Were they disabled, and if so, why?

[Tolwyn]

Try "iamsuchabadplayer"

Other codes were disabled because you can easily break our missions.

[Renegade]

Now i see that so: if any Mission to hard then toggle to easy or very easy.
I understand Tolwyns opinion. i Self cheated in FS2 with the result that the mission cannot finished because i make a ship invulnerable or other things.

[MatthTheGeek]

...isn't the ACTUAL points of cheats to break missions to begin with.

Which means there's no reason to disable them in the first place.

[KeldorKatarn]

...isn't the ACTUAL points of cheats to break missions to begin with.

Which means there's no reason to disable them in the first place.

The point of cheats is to give the developers options to test specific situations. They are not meant for the player at all. Cheats have no please in release builds whatsoever. They are a developer tool, nothing else.

We left the invulnerability heat in (The above cheat activation codeword + Tilde+I after that to activate invulnerability) because it isn't game breaking.
Everything else has no place in a release build.

[Qent]

That seems like a very strong statement to be forcing on other people in a single-player game.

[Tolwyn]

Considering how our missions are scripted, cheat usage may quickly break the mission flow if you destroy an object which is supposed to stay alive. Add to that inaccurate bug reports and we will be wasting our time chasing ghosts. WCS is a huge game and it is already an achievement that thus far only three minor gameplay issues popped up.

[Woolie Wool]

Well you could just ask the reporter if he cheated and state in the bug report guidelines that you will not address bugs triggered when the player was cheating. Pretty much every mod has missions that can be broken by cheating. Even retail can be broken by cheating. If you cheat, you deal with the consequences to the mission.

[jr2]

Why on earth would developer code in a features for their own use, and then, instead of not compiling them into the release build, hide them behind hard-to-type codes such as alafalafel , gabbagabbahey , www.freespace2.com , motherload , iliketocheat <<==!!!!!!!! (developer tool, for sure, this one)... I can see that perhaps they were introduced for the dev console, however, they were left in for the players to fool around with if they so wished.

[KeldorKatarn]

Why on earth would developer code in a features for their own use, and then, instead of not compiling them into the release build, hide them behind hard-to-type codes such as alafalafel , gabbagabbahey , www.freespace2.com , motherload , iliketocheat <<==!!!!!!!! (developer tool, for sure, this one)... I can see that perhaps they were introduced for the dev console, however, they were left in for the players to fool around with if they so wished.

Are you a professional game developer? No? I happen to be one, so if you don't mind...

Of course people might leave them in the game SOMETIMES, if they are reasonably sure that it won't break anything or of some of the cheats are even triggering some easter eggs.

Since we are very sure that most of the cheats DO in fact break the missions, we'd rather not see any bug reports for stuff that we cannot do anything about alright?

[Tolwyn]

I would like to point out one thing: Wing Commander Saga is a game primarily for the players out there. It is not just a simple modding toolkit. I have always felt disappointed by the FSO launcher, because it offered a lot of possibilities to break the game.

We always said we will release the tools necessary for modding, but none of the players out there needs FRED or any lab tools or cheats to enjoy the game. The only thing that could come out of that is broken game because people play around with tools they do not understand.

Also...the attitute towards our work here keeps getting more hostile with each passing hour. I personally don't see any reason to support any community that keeps talking to us as if we are stupid and do not know what we are doing only because we happen to decide which plan to pursue with the fruits of 10 years of our work time...

[Woolie Wool]

Is there anyone on HLP who isn't a modder to some degree? Pretty much everyone here mods, or FREDs, or fiddles with the game in some way. One of the keys to success when dealing with an audience is to know your audience, and when your audience is primarily composed of modders and hackers, well...

And really I haven't seen much "hostility" to WCS around here, except for MatthTheGeek, who is hostile all the time so he doesn't count.

[Mongoose]

Is there anyone on HLP who isn't a modder to some degree? Pretty much everyone here mods, or FREDs, or fiddles with the game in some way. One of the keys to success when dealing with an audience is to know your audience, and when your audience is primarily composed of modders and hackers, well...

Um...I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the WCS team's target audience isn't just HLP.

[Qent]

Also...the attitute towards our work here keeps getting more hostile with each passing hour. I personally don't see any reason to support any community that keeps talking to us as if we are stupid and do not know what we are doing only because we happen to decide which plan to pursue with the fruits of 10 years of our work time...

Woah there....

Would you at least consider providing a workaround for those of us who are not stupid enough to report bugs caused by cheats? Because as one of "the players out there" (well, I also tinker... does that disqualify me?), going out of your way to disable cheats is pretty offensive to me. I could talk about it more, if you think that would be useful. But if I were developing a game, I'd be at least a little worried that other players might also be offended.

[KeldorKatarn]

You are offended if a game doesn't offer you cheats? Seriously?

[KeldorKatarn]

Um...I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the WCS team's target audience isn't just HLP.

Actually the HLP isn't even on our list.

The HLP might be the target audience for our SDK though. But considering what's going on here at the moment that becomes more and more unlikely.

[gevatter Lars]

As Tolwyn pointed out the goal was to create something people can play. That has been done.
So further support with patches, tools etc. might come...I don't know...at least a patch will come as far as I know to adresse some tech issues.

Frankly I don't get the problems some people have with the release. Its a game, it can be played and if you want to hack it you still can. I don't quite get the point. What was the last game you played that had all the hacking features when it was released?

Just be patiend. First the release, second order is to work out any technical bugs and then its hacking time. ^_^
As far as I heard FRED will be added alonge with some tutorials, so no you haven't been forgotten or will be treated badly. Its just not the top priority and yes the game isn't just for HLP people but also found a good aceptance outside of HLP where people do not know anything about FRED.
So take this also into account when bashing us for releasing something that everyone can enjoy. Thank you !

[KeldorKatarn]

Most people playing this game don't even know the HLP or FSOpen exist. Heck some people I talked to don't even know what Freespace was.

[Qent]

You are offended if a game doesn't offer you cheats? Seriously?

No, I am offended that you took pains to disable them. At first, I thought you were on a moral crusade against cheating in video games. But it's perfectly reasonable just to want to improve tech support, which is why I suggested a workaround, since that would make everyone happy.

I'm not bashing at all, just sharing raw feelings in the hope that they might prove useful.

[KeldorKatarn]

They are still in the debug build. And we put pain into whatever we think will improve the robustness of the game.